Topic: Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch/Wii U)

[broodwars]

Breath of the Wild is up for Best Score & Best Audio Design at the Game Awards.

****img REALLY? The game without a musical score is nominated for Best Score & the game with the worst voice acting of the year is up for Best Audio Design?

Really? -_-

[Order.RSS]

Breath of the Wild is up for Best Score & Best Audio Design at the Game Awards.

****img REALLY? The game without a musical score is nominated for Best Score & the game with the worst voice acting of the year is up for Best Audio Design?

Really? -_-

Bear in mind that I don't really understand enough of audio to give meaningful comment here, but I think I can see where they might be coming from? If by audio design they mean the 'overall feel', I would certainly understand the reasoning.

BOTW is, to me, really good at giving audio clues of stuff happening around you. It often piques your interest to swing the camera around and, lo and behold, there's a squirrel there. Wind through grass, an occassionally scattershot flurry of light piano keys to indicate transitions. The low hum in those vaguely futuresque shrines, the different ways weapons and projectiles interact with solid objects resulting in various context-specific twangs...

If that's what they mean with audio design, I can certainly agree. Can't speak to the voice acting; I set it to Japanese as soon as possible since that seemed to gel well with the Princess Mononoke surroundings.

[Ian Sane]

Broodwars' comments remind me a lot of a friend of mine who got Breath of the Wild at the same time I did and while I was raving about it he quickly got bored and lost interest.  His description of what he had played was very different than what I had played.  I went to Karkariko Village right away because the game more or less steered me in that direction.  My friend, like broodwars, didn't and went off in some random other direction where he got lost and the whole thing seemed pointless and he lost interest.  I wonder if the vast majority of those that love the game went to Karkariko Village first because the game heavily hinted that they should.

At the beginning of the game it really has a typical Zelda progression that leads you to a couple of key areas and then it stops holding your hand and says "go explore".  I feel that was deliberate to ease Zelda veterans into the experience by offering a clear path at the beginning.  But since it is optional you don't have to do it.  Nintendo is new to open world games so maybe they didn't really take into account how the game comes across if you just wander off wherever right away.

I found the Zora area to be one of my least favourite parts of the game.  The fact that broodwars ended up there first is lousy luck on his part.

[broodwars]

I think the mistake I made was treating Breath of the Wild like what it is: an Open World game. "Better start off by climbing the towers & uncovering the map so I can find those shrines. Then I can power-up so I can survive the enemy encounters on my way to the story scenarios. So I just kept focusing on finding & climbing towers & doing shrines. Because that's what the Plateau teaches you to focus on.

"Get to Kakariko" reminds me a LOT of "Get out of the Hinterlands" from Dragon Age Inquisition. In both cases, it's in your best interest to just ignore what the game trains you to do at the beginning & just follow the critical path until later. In both cases, it's masking bad design.

[nickmitch]

I think that actually helped me.  Going to Kakariko towards the beginning to get some story made me feel like there was a path.  Then I could wander off from it.  Like, I knew in general where I was going, but I could take little side trips to check out that shrine, or climb this tower, or fight these enemies, etc.

[ejamer]

I didn't follow the path until I had gotten my fill of seeing what I could see on my own. Deliberately went the other direction, and didn't regret it.


But I'm old-school enough that that banging my head against walls is probably more ok for me than most gamers. Following the recommended path would've made the game faster/easier.

[Mop it up]

...I ****ing hate this game. Zelda is my favorite franchise of all time, and I despise this game. It's like it's made up of a million little things all specifically designed to piss me off.

I didn't like the game at first either, so I would suggest to stick with it. Though, I still don't think it's a great game, and people must have really been playing some absolutely miserable games if they think BotW is one of the best games ever, hee hee. It also isn't Zelda enough for me, but it has its moments.

I can see the game being nominated for Best Audio Design if that includes things like sound effects, because it does do a good job in that area. But Best Score? Is this up against games with no music like Call of Duty?

[broodwars]

I think that actually helped me.  Going to Kakariko towards the beginning to get some story made me feel like there was a path.  Then I could wander off from it.  Like, I knew in general where I was going, but I could take little side trips to check out that shrine, or climb this tower, or fight these enemies, etc.

When I have more time & have put more time into Zelda, I think I'm going to write-up a detailed analysis comparing how Horizon: Zero Dawn introduces & guides its players through the early parts of its world, how Zelda does it, and how Horizon is much more effective as a result.

It's not a system wars thing. Horizon just uses encounter placement & terrain design masterfully to subtly guide & checkpoint players early on, whereas Zelda pretty much goes for the shotgun approach & just banks on players choosing the "correct path."

It reminds me of the huge problem Universal's Islands of Adventure had when it opened: the islands are arranged in a wheel without a central hub, from left to right: Marvel Island, Comics Island, Jurassic Park, The Lost Continent, Seuss Landing.

There was just one problem: the designers structured the park so all the high capacity attractions were in Marvel Island. But given a choice between a fork in the road, most people will choose right. So when the park opened, Seuss Landing took the brunt of the traffic instead & everything went to hell. There is a great deal of psychological importance in using terrain as a guidance tool.

[Mop it up]

So, I picked up this game when I bought my Switch, and I put a weekend into it.

By the way, I was curious: Why didn't you get it for Wii U when it came out? Was it because the design seemed unappealing to you? Or did you sell your Wii U or something?

[broodwars]

So, I picked up this game when I bought my Switch, and I put a weekend into it.

By the way, I was curious: Why didn't you get it for Wii U when it came out? Was it because the design seemed unappealing to you? Or did you sell your Wii U or something?

A combination of not liking the look of the game's design & really not liking how the game felt playing on the Gamepad when a friend of mine brought his Wii U copy over. I do like the game better with the grip-locked joycons than when holding that gigantic monstrosity.

Also, I figured that if I was ever going to play a game this massive, I'd play the "better" version of it, so I held off until I had a Switch.

[Luigi Dude]

For people wondering why Breath of the Wild is up for Best Score, just watch this video.

With the amount of effort put into it, I say it easily deserves a nomination.  Plus even though everyone talks about the more minimal field music, the game does have great traditional songs as well that are some of the best I've heard this year.


Rito Village
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh33z5NFJSY

Tarrey Town
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHXRe3mJUo

Hateno Village
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6O1FgvTuAQ

Divine Beast Vah Ruta Battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjTTZgfX2jA

Divine Beast Vah Medoh Battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNLfPSvuMFE

Divine Beast Vah Naboris Battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4aB4d0Cwag

Parasail Minigame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vwWFYy9UA0

Molduga Battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPKIl08Z1gU

Hyrule Castle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aWHkYWslcw

Final Boss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULNIQJj65Mk


Hopefully we get more music like this in the next Zelda and they find a way to incorporate it more into the overworld and I think that would solve the main issue some have with the lack of music.  I mean they got the talent to do it, they just need to make more of it to provide a better balance to the ambient sounds and we're gold.

[broodwars]

So...yeah, I've been busy.



Definitely enjoying the game more now that I've gotten out of that central plain area & into areas where there's stuff to do.

Unfortunately, I did run into my first motion control shrine, and the gyro broke like all motion control does almost immediately. Took me a good 10-15 minutes of fussing with the joycons to get the game to register the movement enough to complete the puzzle. It kept de-synching & twisting on me.

I also find Nintendo's pre-release hype about how "your horse isn't going to run into trees" total BS, considering my fully bonded horse seems to go out of its way to run into every solid obstacle in my path. That's assuming it even moves at all, of course. I got So fed up with my horse refusing to move if the ground ahead of it was even slightly raised above 1 degree that I just stabled it & gave up on it.

[Khushrenada]

Though, I still don't think it's a great game, and people must have really been playing some absolutely miserable games if they think BotW is one of the best games ever, hee hee.

Well, I have been playing a lot of N64 and Wii game lately... (And Khushrenada goes for the jugular!!! Ooooohhhhhh SNAP!!!!)


Alright, I haven't actually been playing much for either for those systems. But my position of the game from all the time I've spent on it has definitely changed. There were a lot of minor gripes I had with it at first like others and that it wasn't perfect though still definitely in the 9/10 range but the more time I've spent with this game and learning some of its secrets, a lot of those gripes have gone away. Yeah, it's still not perfect and I totally get why some people may not like it compared to the established Zelda formula of tricky dungeons but dungeons were never a main draw of the series for me. That's probably why Wind Waker has been my favorite of the series whereas something like Twilight Princess didn't work as well for me. Anyways, with all the time I've put into it now, I'd give this game a 10 even with some imperfections. I really do think it's a current masterpiece in gaming. How it holds up in the long run could change its reputation but it has been a long time that a game has sucked me into its world and made me play as compulsively and obsessively as the first two months when it first came out. It's a rare game that can do that to me and I can overlook some minor quibbles to acknowledge the 10/10 that it truly is. (And if I probably got around to buying the DLC, most of those minor quibbles at this point would be further resolved.)

Now, I'm going to take this into the Mario Odyssey thread but another thing I'd point to BotW's favor is the amount of discussion it has generated. A lot of games get released throughout the course of a year and perhaps if I followed other consoles or other forums I'd see more discussion on some other games but BotW has sparked one of the biggest game discussions on these forums in quite some time and is perhaps one of the most unifying games on these forums in that so many members were playing it at the same time when it was released. The game has clearly done something right.

[Mop it up]

How many other open-world games have you played? I can certainly see this game making more of an impact if one has played few or no other games like this. Now, I'm not trying to suggest this would make someone's opinion less valid, as it doesn't. It just helps explain how they were formed.

It has certainly been nice that the game has generated discussion, but that's more a reflection of the quality of the community than the game. Even bad games can spark discussion; I remember a time when the Superman 64 board on GameFAQs was one of the most popular N64 boards...

I had some more comments here but then I felt like they'd be taken the wrong way and people would get offended. That tends to happen a lot with this game, hee hee. But it isn't like I'm out to change anyone's mind anyway, so explaining my positions isn't necessary. People like what they like and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[GoldenPhoenix]

As someone that has played plenty of open world games I do feel BOTW is one of the best. I've played everything from the GTA series to the Elder Scroll Games to Witcher 3 and everything in between (though I still haven't tried out Zero Dawn, a game I have been meaning to pick up). So many of them fail to keep my interest past the main story arc, if that, yet with BOTW I easily put in 80 hrs and still wasn't tired of it. I think the lack of direction is what makes it great, and the fact you can manipulate the environment so much to not only battle enemies but solve puzzles. The fact that you can technically go right to the final boss as soon as you leave the plateau was a brave design choice as well.

Now is BOTW a perfect game? No it has its own share of issues (underwhelming boss designs, lack of dungeons, horse riding feels unnecessary and tedious) but it doesn't change the fact that it is likely my favorite out of the 3D Zelda's and would be well up there on my list of favorite games. I think another reason why I enjoy the game over so many other open world games is that it is simple in its mechanics but has depth in how you can interact with the world. With that said the game has a ton of potential to expand on the formula in future iterations. As it stands I got a similar feeling with BOTW as I got with the original LoZ, and IMO is the full realization of what they had in the original game. The sense of discovery was fantastic in BOTW, something I often do not get with similar games.

[Ian Sane]

Aside from giving GTA Vice City a go one time and not digging at all, I really don't have any open world experience aside from Breath of the Wild (unless the Xenoblade games count and they probably should).  So there is probably a bit of the conventions of the genre itself that is impressing me.

What I really like though is that BOTW is a big grand game and I feel that's how Zelda is supposed to be.  LttP and OoT felt like that when they came out but for a while there it seemed like Zelda was, frankly, small compared to something like Xenoblade.  Skyward Sword in particular didn't feel ambitious or grand - it felt like a Cube era Zelda game with motion controls.  I feel like Zelda needed to go in this new direction to rediscover the proper sense of wonder and exploration that the series was known for.  The series had become formulaic and was stuck at the level of what was considered a grand adventure with 15 year old tech.

Now the cool thing is that I think there is still room for improvement.  I think they could introduce more permanent weapons (or at least a way to repair them) and add some larger more traditional dungeons to go with the smaller shrines.  I feel like BOTW is really a first draft of what Nintendo could REALLY do.  And they can probably make at least two more games before this template becomes stale.

[broodwars]

I completed the Rito Quest Line last night after an incredibly boring dungeon (seriously, who designed these mediocre Divine Beast Dungeons? The shrines are way more interesting). I'm about 2-3 hearts short of being able to obtain the Master Sword.

I'm slowly starting to like this game. It took a while, and I still think the game's closer to an 8/10 than a 10, but I play games for their storytelling, & the (extremely optional) story content BoW has is compelling enough, if incredibly shallow. Most of my problems with this game stem from it being an Open World game from a company that's clearly still learning quality of life lessons a lot of other devs learned years ago. I don't find it to be a fun world to explore, even now. It just takes too long to get from A to B, & even with Search+ I'm finding the Sheikah Slate to not be altogether useful as a searching tool due to its incredibly short range. I would have vastly preferred a smaller, denser game world with more memorable locations & encounters, but apparently devs just aren't allowed to make those worlds anymore. For one thing, between the framerate drops & object draw-in, it's clear that the Switch has problems maintaining a world this big.

[Adrock]

Breath of the Wild’s story is exceptionally shallow. Most of the voice acting so far is questionable (really hate Zelda’s voice). As for the frame rate and draw in, I wonder if that’s a Switch problem or Wii U problem. Would the game perform better if built specifically for Switch?

Anyway, I’ve dabbled in some open-world games, but I normally find them oddly restrictive. When I see tiny fences or rocks I can’t just climb over, it takes something away from the experience. For me, Breath of the Wild had a lot stacked against it even if it looked oh-my-gawd. Being a Zelda game is normally enough to get the game in my door but isn’t enough to keep my interest considering Nintendo release two Zelda games in the last 10 years I disliked including one I flat-out couldn’t bring myself to finish. The freedom Breath of the Wild gives players is probably the only reason I stuck with it. The designers practically dare you to explore things without the caveat of “Well, there’s no game data behind cliff side.” I actually had to focus and force myself to get the Master Sword because I kept derailing saving an entire country from a century of darkness to climb some mountains.

Breath of the Wild isn’t perfect, and that’s fine. It’s a welcome step in the right direction. The most important thing Nintendo did was admit that Zelda games didn’t have to be a certain way and subsequently do something about it. I hope Breath of the Wild doesn’t have its own Majora’s Mask, or at the very least the DLC functions as it (e.g. same engine, new adventure). Majora’s Mask is great, as is The Wind Waker, but I always though The Wind Waker suffered because of Majora’s Mask existence. Having that extra game between Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker made the gameplay feel less fresh. Not sure I’m explaining that well. The next Zelda game should be built from the ground up even if it lifts what worked from Breath of the Wild.

[ShyGuy]

Broodwars, are you collecting the memories?

[broodwars]

Broodwars, are you collecting the memories?

Trying to, but without a guide those camera shots are fantastically vague in a game world this huge & same-y. I only have the memory right now that's right in front of Hyrule Castle.

[Mop it up]

It's a shame people don't put this much effort into defending games that actually need defending, ha ha.

Majora’s Mask is great, as is The Wind Waker, but I always thought The Wind Waker suffered because of Majora’s Mask existence. Having that extra game between Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker made the gameplay feel less fresh.

Interesting. For me, the Legend of Zelda series is one of the few which hasn't felt stale. Part of that has to do with how much time there typically is between releases, but I also feel like each one has done a good job doing something to stand out. In your example, Majora's Mask may have used the same engine but it was so wildly different that it felt unique, and then Wind Waker was quite different yet again and felt unique. There also are very few games which play like Zelda, or at least not ones I've come across, so that also adds to help the games stay fresh for me.

Sometimes I feel like it takes too long for a new Zelda game to come out, which is part of why I'm okay with another game that uses the BotW formula with a twist on it, and then it will release in two or three years instead of five or six.

[Khushrenada]

It's a shame people don't put this much effort into defending games that actually need defending, ha ha.

Which games do you think need defending?

[broodwars]

The reward for completing Eventide Isle is so totally not worth the time you have to waste on it. A single orb? Really? I was expecting at least 2 for that (or another piece of climbing gear lime the one I got from another shrine nearby) after having to take down a giant through sheer will with none of my gear.

[ShyGuy]

Eventide was a dungeon. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?

[broodwars]

My recent progress in the game:





So yeah, I've made some progress lately.