Author Topic: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized  (Read 296331 times)

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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #425 on: April 07, 2007, 07:31:57 PM »
MP1 was fine for me. I don't know if it's the fact that the experience was new or not, but it was fine for me whereas MP2 just didn't go over so well.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #426 on: April 07, 2007, 07:36:29 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
MP1 was fine for me. I don't know if it's the fact that the experience was new or not, but it was fine for me whereas MP2 just didn't go over so well.


Actually I think MP1 is a very good game, but frankly I'll pass on MP3 if it has the artifact hunting again. I don't mind backtracking to get new items, or enter new areas, but I don't like having to go on a scavenger hunt if I happen to miss important items that I need to beat the game. It is my preference that a game should be designed intuitively where when you are almost to the end you don't need to backtrack looking in every nook and cranny for an item.
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Offline Artimus

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #427 on: April 07, 2007, 07:41:12 PM »
MP1 is fantastic. I don't really recall much backtracking, beyond what felt necessary.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #428 on: April 07, 2007, 07:43:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
MP1 is fantastic. I don't really recall much backtracking, beyond what felt necessary.


MP1 had alot of backtracking, mainly for the artifacts. When I beat my final boss, I was still missing several of the artifacts and to go back and get them, wherever they may be in that huge world, was not very appealing. Technically you could say the same thing about Wind Waker's Triforce collection too, if you would have gotten them as you progressed it wouldn't be nearly as a tedious, and would include much less backtracking. I dunno, but it seems to me to be poor design or at the very least questionable design that you aren't led to items one after another, instead of potentially being faced with a huge scavenger quest towards the end.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #429 on: April 07, 2007, 07:44:42 PM »
I should be clear that I'm not ragging on MP2, just that my attention span is too short to get through it, really.
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Offline Adrock

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #430 on: April 07, 2007, 08:05:23 PM »
Almost everything associate with the Dark World was annoying in Echoes.

And Samus needs to explode when she dies. That was one of the cooler parts in the 2D Metroid games. The death scenes in the Prime series have been super-lame. That's not really Prime 2's problem, let alone a problem in general. It's just something I, as a Metroid fan, would like to see.

Offline King of Twitch

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #431 on: April 07, 2007, 09:32:57 PM »
I was so angry when I first learned Ms Pac man had the same amount of backtracking and collecting of dots as pacman 1, I almost threw down my Teddy Ruxpin.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #432 on: April 08, 2007, 05:34:29 AM »
See, that doesn't apply because I hate all versions of pacman equally.
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Offline MaryJane

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #433 on: April 08, 2007, 06:26:38 AM »
I loved every moment of MP2 as for the backtracking thing I felt it added a nice level of difficulty and I like difficult things (like my gf lol). Seriously though, I thought it was great game, I actually thought it was better than the first one, but only because it built off of it, and added many improvements.

I also like multiplayer Metriod, I really don't know why everything about everything must be complained about. Samus is a solo bounty hunter? Since when do story and multiplayer FPSs go together? (Besides co-op) Oh but Metriod Prime is an FPA! Not when you're playing with other people it isn't. Really how hard is it to detach yourself from a story? I can't imagine the real lives of people who can't seperate fiction from fiction, let alone fiction from life.
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Offline Artimus

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #434 on: April 08, 2007, 06:32:41 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
MP1 is fantastic. I don't really recall much backtracking, beyond what felt necessary.


MP1 had alot of backtracking, mainly for the artifacts. When I beat my final boss, I was still missing several of the artifacts and to go back and get them, wherever they may be in that huge world, was not very appealing. Technically you could say the same thing about Wind Waker's Triforce collection too, if you would have gotten them as you progressed it wouldn't be nearly as a tedious, and would include much less backtracking. I dunno, but it seems to me to be poor design or at the very least questionable design that you aren't led to items one after another, instead of potentially being faced with a huge scavenger quest towards the end.


I really don't remember this?

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #435 on: April 08, 2007, 09:40:28 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
MP1 is fantastic. I don't really recall much backtracking, beyond what felt necessary.


MP1 had alot of backtracking, mainly for the artifacts. When I beat my final boss, I was still missing several of the artifacts and to go back and get them, wherever they may be in that huge world, was not very appealing. Technically you could say the same thing about Wind Waker's Triforce collection too, if you would have gotten them as you progressed it wouldn't be nearly as a tedious, and would include much less backtracking. I dunno, but it seems to me to be poor design or at the very least questionable design that you aren't led to items one after another, instead of potentially being faced with a huge scavenger quest towards the end.


I really don't remember this?


You don't remember having to collect the 12 artifacts before you could unlock the final area of the game? I sure do.
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Offline ThePerm

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #436 on: April 08, 2007, 09:41:00 AM »
one of my problems in Metroid is that some areas can look alot alike, which makes it harder for me to memorize the world, unlike games like zelda where everything is easily findable. In the old metroid games, the color palate for each area would be alot different from area to area, goldeneye had alot of indicators which showed you each different area wasn't the same.
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Offline Artimus

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #437 on: April 08, 2007, 10:16:50 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
MP1 is fantastic. I don't really recall much backtracking, beyond what felt necessary.


MP1 had alot of backtracking, mainly for the artifacts. When I beat my final boss, I was still missing several of the artifacts and to go back and get them, wherever they may be in that huge world, was not very appealing. Technically you could say the same thing about Wind Waker's Triforce collection too, if you would have gotten them as you progressed it wouldn't be nearly as a tedious, and would include much less backtracking. I dunno, but it seems to me to be poor design or at the very least questionable design that you aren't led to items one after another, instead of potentially being faced with a huge scavenger quest towards the end.


I really don't remember this?


You don't remember having to collect the 12 artifacts before you could unlock the final area of the game? I sure do.


Like, before you go down and kill the big metroid monster, right? After you kill Ripley? I think the thing was that I had worked my way through everything, getting all the missiles and stuff so I just had them by then.

Offline mantidor

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #438 on: April 08, 2007, 02:07:38 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: TrueNerd
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
What they need to get rid off is the key/artifact hunt, not the backtracking, when you have the previous knowledge that you need to get a certain number of items it makes the quest seem larger than what it really is, also, in 2D games Samus can backtrack much faster thanks to the new abilities like screw attack and boost, something that wasn't implemented as deep in the 3D games.
This is truth. Artifact hunting is almost as bad as sailing around and retrieving chunks of Triforce from the ocean floor.

Almost.


I feel like clarifying that in no way I consider MP1 or 2 flawed games, they are close to perfection and I love them equally, those are just slight improvements I thought about, and anyway any real Metroid player should had already half the keys/artifacts by the point you are asked to get them, the same with the triforce pieces.

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Offline Smoke39

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #439 on: April 08, 2007, 02:08:54 PM »
I think I already had several of the artifacts before I learned that I needed them.   It didn't take very long to find the others.

Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
any real Metroid player should had already half the keys/artifacts by the point you are asked to get them, the same with the triforce pieces.

Except for the part where exploring Talon IV was fun, and sailing across the ocean was not.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #440 on: April 08, 2007, 02:36:01 PM »
It coulda been. ot COULDA been./.. *sigh*

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #441 on: April 08, 2007, 02:59:27 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
Quote

Originally posted by: TrueNerd
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
What they need to get rid off is the key/artifact hunt, not the backtracking, when you have the previous knowledge that you need to get a certain number of items it makes the quest seem larger than what it really is, also, in 2D games Samus can backtrack much faster thanks to the new abilities like screw attack and boost, something that wasn't implemented as deep in the 3D games.
This is truth. Artifact hunting is almost as bad as sailing around and retrieving chunks of Triforce from the ocean floor.

Almost.


I feel like clarifying that in no way I consider MP1 or 2 flawed games, they are close to perfection and I love them equally, those are just slight improvements I thought about, and anyway any real Metroid player should had already half the keys/artifacts by the point you are asked to get them, the same with the triforce pieces.


Um what exactly is a "real" Metroid player anyway? I put alot of hours into MP and I still was missing quite a few artifacts (I may have had half though). In Zelda: WW I had none of the triforce pieces, and I consider myself a "real" Zelda player. Regardless I still don't like when games slam you over the head with a scavenger hunt right before the end before you can beat it, I prefer them to be designed so you are collecting them as you go, where you are FORCED to find them long before you need them.
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Offline Smoke39

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #442 on: April 08, 2007, 03:20:23 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Um what exactly is a "real" Metroid player anyway?

People who don't cry over having to move in any direction other than forward or having to find things on their own. ;b
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #443 on: April 08, 2007, 03:46:17 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Um what exactly is a "real" Metroid player anyway?

People who don't cry over having to move in any direction other than forward or having to find things on their own. ;b


So people who prefer the 2D Metroid games aren't real metroid players?  I have no problem finding things, but I want the game designed so it gives it to you in digestable chunks before you can progress, instead of letting you get through a game and when you are almost done tell you "Oops you still need to find all this stuff you missed".
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #444 on: April 08, 2007, 06:23:08 PM »
Scavenger hunts are a device for artificially extending the play time of a game. Nothing more.

There's no need for them in this age of gaming, really.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #445 on: April 08, 2007, 06:33:12 PM »
I enjoy scavenger hunts. They are one of the foundations of the adventure genre.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #446 on: April 08, 2007, 06:55:39 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ShyGuy
I enjoy scavenger hunts. They are one of the foundations of the adventure genre.


You are right to a degree, but I prefer them to be more side-quests, or if they are indeed scavenger hunts have them be relatively short or broken up into bits (TP did a good job with this, none of the scavenger hunts felt too tedious IMO). I love exploring, but I don't want to be forced to spend several hours locating a collection of items around the world in order to finish the game.  
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Offline TrueNerd

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #447 on: April 08, 2007, 07:10:54 PM »
Yeah, the scavenger hunts in both the Primes and Wind Waker are my least favorite parts of those otherwise near perfect games, but I feel at least in Prime 1 it wasn't too awful. It was tedious getting to the rooms where the artifacts were, but once you were there, it was fun figuring out how to acquire them. Wind Waker's scavenger hunt was nothing more then, "Sail here, lower grappling hook. Repeat seven more times." There was absolutely nothing rewarding about that.  

Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #448 on: April 09, 2007, 05:55:13 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Scavenger hunts are a device for artificially extending the play time of a game. Nothing more.

There's no need for them in this age of gaming, really.

That second line is, sadly, not true.  It takes a lot of time and work to build the detailed virtual worlds people expect these days.  Extending a game by making players spend more time in fewer areas is a lot easier than extending a game by adding more levels.  I think we'd all prefer the latter, but it's not always feasible.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized
« Reply #449 on: April 09, 2007, 06:02:41 AM »
That's fair.

I don't mind them if they're disguised as something else, like with mini-boss battles before you acquire every item, but I think there are more interesting things you can do with a certain area which has been made.

For example, Deus Ex reused a LOT of levels, but it did so by completely revamping the content in those levels as well as changing the locations where the player enters from each time. I wouldn't mind a scavenger hunt if I was sent to collect items which were guarded by new monsters or sealed behind puzzles which are suddenly opened in the same areas I had already been in.
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