Topic: Preordering Games

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: PartyBear

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Originally posted by: Kairon

Besides, they can still use that unsold product and leverage it in secondary markets, bundle them together, sell them through alternative discount services, etc.

DVDs are already a secondary market in the movie industry, though.  The movie itself should have already made money in the theaters, and they can use that performance to gauge demand for the DVDs.  Video game publishers don't have that luxury, and if you think they're averse to risk now, just wait until they have to face the risk of eating the cost of hundreds of thousands of unsold copies.

The issue here is, even in their primary market, movies are "Pay per View".  Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a theater shows a movie and no one buys any tickets to that showing, then the theater doesn't pay anything for it (aside from the lost screen time).  The theater also gets to decide how long they want to show the movie (i.e.: how long it stays on the "shelf").  Therefore, there is no guarantee that a movie will have made money in theaters (See Gigli).

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: PartyBearif you think they're averse to risk now, just wait until they have to face the risk of eating the cost of hundreds of thousands of unsold copies.

Well maybe the impetus should rest on the game makers to create games that won't come back?

... hmm... this is a toughie because whatever happens, GAMES ARE TOO RISKY FOR ALL INVOLVED. Consumers, retailers, developers and publishers, all undertake exorbitant amounts of risk in the videogames industry, and perhaps this is why people are saying the system is as screwed as it is.

[UltimatePartyBear]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
The issue here is, even in their primary market, movies are "Pay per View".  Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a theater shows a movie and no one buys any tickets to that showing, then the theater doesn't pay anything for it (aside from the lost screen time).  The theater also gets to decide how long they want to show the movie (i.e.: how long it stays on the "shelf").  Therefore, there is no guarantee that a movie will have made money in theaters (See Gigli).

The point wasn't just that they've already made money, but that they have an indicator for expected DVD sales that is useful for evaluating risk.

[Kairon]

So in a way, you CAN'T blame game retailers for using pre-orders to evaluate risk, because they have NOTHING ELSE between them and overstocking on product that won't sell and ultimately has small profit margins... it's simply too easy to lose money in the game's industry.

[UncleBob]

One of many reasons why I don't preorder...

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Okay - here's my TRU story.
I preordered, because I wanted the coin and the Gift Card was enough to push me into getting it.

Mind you, I've never seen the physical ad - just read about the Gift Card on here.  I don't get the Sunday paper - and even if I did, ours doesn't have a TRU ad in it.

So, either Friday or Saturday, I call the TRU to find out when they expect the game in.  Person told me Tuesday.

We got our copies in at WalMart on Monday, so I called back Monday afternoon and was once again told that they would have it on Tuesday - except this person told me that they would have it when they opened.  Nice.  This person also went into detail about the Gift Card deal.  Thus, I had assumed they knew what they were talking about.

Now, each time I called, I got their automated system, waited about 5-ish mins for someone to pick up, asked to be transfered to the R-Zone, then waited about 5 more mins for someone to pick up.

So, yesterday morning, I didn't call before going to Toys R Us.  My mistake.

My "local" Toys R Us is about an hour drive away.  Drove over there (got there around 11:30-ish.  Nothing.  So I went and ate, checked out a few other stores, then went back in about 1-ish.  Still nothing.

Well, a friend and I were driving to another town with a TRU that evening (about 3 hours from this store, 2 hours from where I live), so I asked if it'd be possible to somehow transfer my pre-order to the other store, since I'd already wasted the gas to go there once (and with the price of gas being what it is...)

I asked to speak to a manager.  Took the guy a good 20 mins to finally get over there (they were relativly busy, so I understand) and the assistant I spoke with was a real jerk.  He took no responsibility for the employee who told me they'd have the game when they opened (apparently, a lot of customers were told that, according to kid behind the counter who I first spoke with).  All he would do is say "Our ad says it's 'Guaranteed by 5 PM'."  That's fine and dandy, but I had never actually seen the ad before he showed it to me just then - and besides, the employee *told* me they'd be in, Tuesday, at open.

Well, the Assistant tells me that they can't transfer a reserve or pre-order *at all*.  I ask for the number to corperate and he gives me 1-800-ToysRUs.

So, I call 1-800-ToysRUs.  Tell them my story.  Customer rep on the phone is very apologetic, tells me to do the following:  Ask to speak to the store manager.  He can see if they have the games in and are just holding them for the 5 PM release.  If that is the case, he should go ahead and sell me one, as I had pre-ordered it and drove an hour to get it.  If they did *not* have the game in stock, the store manager should be able to call the other store and, if they had an extra copy of the game, have them reserve it for me.

Went back into the store and spoke, again, with the assistant manager.  Waited in line behind two people who were having completely different issues and the same assistant was just as rude and unhelpful to them.  When he got to me, he gave me this "go to heck" look and I asked if the Store Manager was in.  No.  Do you know when he'll be in?  No. (?!?).  Okay, thanks.

So I called the other store myself, asked to talk to their store manager, explained my story and that manager (dunno if she was actually the store manager or not) said she'd be happy to hold me a copy - except they had gotten their copies in at 10 that morning and had already sold out.  I thanked her for her time (and apologized, as I should have just asked if they had any copies in before going into my long winded story.).

So I run down to the McDonald's and get me a cup of Sweet Tea and drink it.  Come back to the TRU about 2:30 to check one last time if they'd gotten it.  They hadn't.  Well, I had to leave town to meet my friend so we could start our trip.

Well, I get up early this morning (after getting in late last night) to call the Toys R Us and see if they got the game in.  I have to be at work at Noon, so I'd have just enough time to get over there, get the game, come back and go to work.  Thank God I called first (and waited on hold for about 30 mins).  No, in fact, they *still* didn't get the game in.  All this after the Assistant Jerk Manager told me they'd have it by 5 PM Tuesday and kept showing me the ad.  Part of me wishes I *had* just drove over there, so I could throw a huge hissy fit (and some glitter).

Anywhoo, I asked about the "Guaranteed by 5 PM Tuesday" part and was told that "things happen".  Still no apology.

Called the 1-800-ToysRUs number again and I'm not going to let up on this.

Don't sell me a "PreOrder", make me wait 3+ days later than everyone else to get it, tell me I can get it at two different times, neither of which I can actually get it, make me drive an hour out of my way to get it, "Guarantee" it another time, be a jerk to me, then don't even apologize to me *at all*.

And for the record, I'm not the kind of person who only shops at ToysRUs for deals.  Every time I'm in this town, I generally stop by the ToysRUs and have a look around and buy stuff about half the time.  I love to stop at TRUs in different towns just to browse (and occasionally buy stuff).

[Pale]

Heh.  Toys R Us has always been a place I don't mind preordering at because they don't base their game orders on number of pre orders.  They almost always get about twice as many copies as they have pre orders.

Therefore, you can still use the store if you don't like preordering everything.

But man UB.  I can't believe Toys R Us stores are so different, as my local one here got tons and tons of copies monday night.

[EasyCure]

i havent read thru the topic but i'd like to add this..

i pre-ordered mario galaxy at a game stop literally a block away from where i work, so i'd pick it up after work. i called out today so i didnt get my check which means i cant afford the game until i cash my check tomorrow which means with my luck they'll of sold my copy since their policy is to hold pre-orderes for 48 hours.. but anyway my point was..

gamestop called and left a viocemail on my phone. it was a message from charles martinet, who goes into doing his Mario voice and reminds me to go pick up mario galaxy. the message was about 5 mins long, and its awesome! lol

[UltimatePartyBear]

Off-topic Toys R Us rant:

The local Toys R Us used to be my first stop for games because the selection was massive and well stocked.  Then they changed it into a Geoffery store, and the R Zone replaced the beautiful two and a half aisles of video game paradise.  They went from tickets to oversized locked plastic cases, so the massive selection simply didn't fit anymore.  I never once bought a game there after the remodel, mostly because they never got anything in on time anymore.  Then the new format didn't make enough money, so they closed it a few years back.  They could have just changed it back into a cheaper to run normal Toys R Us, but instead there's a garishly painted vacant building for sale down the street from here.

R.I.P. Toys R Us.  You are dead to me.


By the way, Kairon had asked whether Amazon was good at shipping preorderd games early.  I had a just-in-case preorder of Galaxy at Amazon, and they hadn't even started processing it this morning when I went to cancel it because I already bought it at Target.  I did select free shipping, and I don't know how much of an effect that had.

[Nick DiMola]

UncleBob, I too had some TRU troubles. I called TRU on Monday and they told me they already had the game in and to show up at open Tuesday or else I might not get the coin. I show up at 9am (when I have to be at work), and everything is set up ready to go including the coins and giftcards. Myself and about 5 others who were told the same thing as me are waiting for them to get the game out. After about 30 minutes of scrambling, they come to the realization that they hadn't even gotten the game in yet As a result, I got to work about an hour late and I had to go back later to get the game.

Later that day, I called TRU on my way out of work to see if they got the game. I was put on hold and I waited on hold for as long as it took me to get there.

I love some of the deals TRU offers, but they are just a disaster. The store out in Rochester was about a million times better than the one here in Albany. I guess there is no consistency between TRU stores.  

[Pale]

Heh, Mr. Jack, the Rochester one is the one I went to and had zero problems.  The difference between stores is amazing.

[Ian Sane]

Generally Gamestop is the whole source of the pre-ordering issue.  I can go into Best Buy or Wal-Mart or Toys 'R' Us and buy the game.  Even if those stores take pre-orders there is never any issue with them only filling the pre-orders and nothing else.  They don't hound you to pre-order.  The whole bullsh!t is Gamestop.

So how do they get away with it?  Why do they remain popular?  I think the reason is because there's not much else like it.  Gamestop is a videogame store.  It's not an electronic or toy or department store.  It's a game store and gamers put up with it because it's the only one.  I think we want a game store and it's unforunate that the big game store chain sucks.  I think the solution is a competitor that offers a "gamer environment" but doesn't have all the pre-order BS.  All this pre-order stuff is because Gamestop has too much influence.

[Kairon]

But I thought that you can't make any money being like that IanSane, that the margins are so narrow that indie game stores just have a rough time of it.