Author Topic: Hey! DC's got stuff too... (Official Thread for the DCU of Movies and TV)  (Read 269126 times)

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Offline Stratos

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Glad you both mentioned 6. I wanted to, but didn't want to go overboard on recommendations for someone who sounded like the didn't much care for the films. 6 is right up there with 2 for me. I adore 4 as well, but admit it is weaker than the others. And that leads me to recommending 3 because of the continuation of the story (but don't worry, you can skip 5, though I find it to be a fun film in a campy sort of manner).

I never much cared for the Next Generation films, and never got the appeal of First Contact like others did, though mostly that was because it felt a bit like a retread of 4 with a better villain plot. Nemesis was the best TNG film.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Offline oohhboy

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The only thing in common with 4 and FC is time travel. Time travel has it's own tropes you can't get away from. 4 doesn't even have a villain, it's mostly just the crew running around like double dumbasses. Very enjoyable fun dumbassery.

FC has so many levels to it as it finally deals with the massive trauma Picard suffered in TNG as it will always hit the reset button, it really humanised him. NO ONE can go through the Borg or 4 lights without coming out different. It deepens his relationship with Data. An alternate take on the Borg with the Queen and bringing in Data. We have the excellent 'To hell with our orders' and battle. Don't meet your hero Zefram Cochrane and Troi gets smashed. Going to warp in a equivalent of a go kart which felt like the first time I have ever gone to warp.

Nemesis gets bashed too much but it isn't particularly good either with a weak script. That last space battle felt like a drag but the other action was alright. The premise comes out of nowhere, you got weird or pointless stuff. But Tom Hardy did good with what he had, Picard-Data is usual excellence. Frakes did FC and N so he has enough skills. Less spoken about Insurrection the better, 5 at least gave us 'What goes god need with a Starship?'.

They basically had a dream team with 2 and 6 but never realised it, failing to capitalise on it. Office politics, never once.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Insurrection is fine, it's just basically a TNG two-parter with a bigger budget. It's not actively bad, the stakes just never feel high enough to justify being a movie and couldn't live up to its predecessor. Insurrection is the Search for Spock of the TNG era, where it's not bad but not really good either, it's just kind of there.
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Offline oohhboy

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They had the completely wrong script for a movie, even as an actual two parter it would have been every weak. Logan, Deadpool, Wick(recent examples) etc show you can have stakes that don't involve a large population/planet getting destroyed while being pretty epic. The big big problem with pulling a ST episode to blow it up is that those stories are inherently for TV, it doesn't scale. In the end its another tired "Crazy/evil admiral story" merged with Warth of Khan which N repeats. Ugghh.

Had to shoe horn in a space battle with the most powerful ship in Starfleet yet it had to get dunked on by arbitrary powerful ships. So to mitigate that they had to have a boarding action.

N has the same problem but at least established something beforehand and giving them a wing mate with long term significance. 6 battle is awesome because the villain was clever, **** talking brilliantly and the Enterprise need to be just as clever as even the Excelsior(With a cool red line run) couldn't help other than tank. Blowing up the dinner set is inspired.

SfS works because it is a direct continuation which allows the emotion to carry over as well. The Enterprise getting owned made sense and tied into earlier the themes of kobayashi maru.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 04:09:24 AM by oohhboy »
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Offline broodwars

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I knew that Nemesis would be fucking garbage the moment they had Picard roaring across a pre-warp desert planet in a Dune Buggy looking for Data clone parts...because Picard just wanted to play with a car.

Mind you, Picard was one of THE most stringent characters in the franchise when it came to not violating the Prime Directive. But hey, I suppose wanting to go off-road racing was an acceptable reason for contaminating an alien culture.  :rolleyes:
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Offline UncleBob

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Quote
The premise comes out of nowhere, you got weird or pointless stuff.

This is 100% a failing of the script, but it didn't come from no where.

What they failed to tell you in the story is all the background stuff in the Romulan Empire that got us to where Nemesis happens.  There's a couple of novels that tie into it that really help sell the movie's premise (for example, B4 was actually made by the Romulans as well as part of their plan to replace the entire crew of Starfleet's flag ship.  Neat, eh?).  I'm not sure how much was made up before the movie and how much was done after the movie to try and justify the movie itself - but the foundation is there - they just failed at communicating it within the movie.

Outside of all of that - Picard is really still in the Nexus from Generations - it never really let him go, just giving him the life he wanted - a "real" life.  This is why he was riding the dune buggy at the start of Nemesis.
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Offline Stratos

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Interesting thoughts on those films. Guess I really do need to go back and give them all a second chance. Hell, I need to give the TV series another go ahead as well. I may have judged FC too harshly based off the time travel tropes alone.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Anybody check out Doom Patrol?

this is a weird, yet very entertaining, and sometime so wild it's funny show.
I know nothing of the comicbook, as I was never a DC reader. Actually I've never even heard of Doom Patrol before this show was announced, but there are quite a few moments where you are just "WTF am I watching...!?" followed up with a "OMG. LMAO"

Some of the plot devices in this show are just beyond absurd (to the point of sometimes being hilarious), but what do you expect from some D-tier comicbook related show. I'm just glad one of the characters on the show shares in this disbelief with his constant outburst of "WTF"

There's only 6 episodes out so far, but it has been strangely entertaining.

Offline nickmitch

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I think Shazam will be a bad movie, but it will be fun.

Lol, this was 100% accurate.

And I thought Shazam looked a lot better than expected.

His origin is boooooring, though.  Some kid falls in a cave and is given powers by an old wizard.  The powers even come with the costume and enough brains to know to use them.

So much for the "Wisdom of Solomon", lol.

Was looking for this post because I thought I was worried about that exact issue.
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Offline ThePerm

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Offline BranDonk Kong

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I think the Endgame presale is going to take a bunch of wind out of Shazam's weekend's sales, and Pet Sematary getting good reviews is also going to hurt it.
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Offline Stratos

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Doesn't matter how good Shazam turns out, it was never going to do amazingly well between the non-Marvel super hero fatigue setting in, DC's shoddy film reputation, and Endgame releasing. May still put out fair numbers, but I don't expect it comparing even with WW/AM.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Joker trailer is out, looks good!
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Offline Shorty McNostril

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That Joker trailer looks completely uninteresting to me. I personally don't understand why this movie needs to exist. From a personal standpoint I think the Joker is completely over rated as a villain and certainly not worthy of his own movie. I'm just sick of him turning up as the main antagonist in most Batman stories but that's just me.

The main more objective reason I don't think this movie needs to exist is because the whole point of the Joker is the intrigue surrounding his existence and past. Yet it seems they're going to throw all that away.



Offline ThePerm

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I'm more interested in this movie as a piece of cinema than it's relation to the rest of the DC continuity.




It appears to be a remake of King of Comedy if you made the character The Joker instead and set it in Gotham.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 05:15:53 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline ShyGuy

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Yeah, it's crazy. I'm a picky Batman super fan, but this trailer makes me interested in this just as a movie, not as a DC movie.

Offline UncleBob

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Put me in the "Interested" camp.

I don't mind straying from the source material, as long as it is good.  Gotham, IMHO, is an example of that.

This looks like it has potential.

I don't know where Suicide Squad Joker came from, but that doesn't make the character interesting to me.

This... this just seems crazy enough to work.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Haven't seen the trailer yet... but I guess I'll go check it out. But the snippets of footage I've seen previously didn't really make me anticipate the movie.

edit: Just found the trailer..... eh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t433PEQGErc

I know it's just a teaser, but I remain "un-teased"
I'm glad to see DC do something very different from everything else, but I have no plans to rush out to see this in the theater...

now we wait for initial reviews.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 10:33:36 AM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline ShyGuy

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Speaking of teaser's, they need to change the name. Didn't teasers used to short little snippets that showed very little? A teaser seems more like a full trailer nowadays. And the full trailer often spoils the plot of the movie!

Offline oohhboy

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Meh. Filed under yet another origin story. They Joker is great and all but do we really need him to show up again?
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Offline ThePerm

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Meh. Filed under yet another origin story. They Joker is great and all but do we really need him to show up again?

Yes.

There was a time before movies, and before records when there was nothing but plays and musical performances. The Joker is a classic character. Like Dracula or Frankenstein or Hamlet.

I remember there was interview with Mark Ruffalo in relation to how many people at that point had played Hulk and he was talking about how Hulk was the modern day Hamlet.

"I'm a friend of Ed's," he said, "And yeah, that wasn't a great way for all that to go down. But the way I see it is that Ed has bequeathed this part to me. I look at it as my generation's Hamlet."

There is art in watching different people play the same part and seeing the nuance of interpretation.

In this world there is a lot of complaint about how there's "nothing new under the sun"
https://archive.org/details/LenSpencerSHDudley

reinterpretations are a vital part of art neogenesis.

I want to keep seeing different versions and variations of characters as long as time goes on. There is really only a few character archetypes anyway. Arguing for character x over character y doesn't change much. Robin and Batman are the same character for instance.
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Offline oohhboy

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I don't know why you are trying to pre-emptively excuse this movie and the core reasons for meh. DC has the richest villain/hero stable outside of Marvel and they insist again on going back to the same well so quickly. Being a "Hamlet" is an excuse for laziness, doubly so with another origin story. It's stale right out of the gate.

You have essentially gave up on originality with your line of reasoning with "There is really only a few character archetypes anyway". You're accepting mediocrity.

I would feel the same if it was Superman or Batman. Any C lister is far more interesting right now. It would have very different restrictions and opportunities for originality. If one was to insist on this plot line would be perfect for someone like the DCAU Clock King, Temple Fugate. First 2 minutes sets him up much like Dredd did. The rest of the running time is him absolutely wreaking everyone including 2-3 C-listers who have to come together to stop him preferably not by punching the problem. Bam, you have a list of characters to make cheaper movies from with far less baggage and more forgiving comic feel. If one is a breakout hit then you have just rolled another A/B list proposition.

I highly recommend Falling Down (1993) instead watching this tired Joker movie.
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Offline nickmitch

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Speaking of teaser's, they need to change the name. Didn't teasers used to short little snippets that showed very little? A teaser seems more like a full trailer nowadays. And the full trailer often spoils the plot of the movie!

I agree.  I think the definition of "teaser" shifted to "trailer with minimal plot clues" and then a "full trailer" previews (or spoils) the plot.  But I thought we got a 30 second teaser showing Joaquin in full make up a while back? That, to me, was a teaser. Or would've been.

Anyway, I'm also in the interested camp.  I don't see the Joker as tired, but I never watched Gotham, so my last exposure to him in live action was Suicide Squad.  I liked the fan theories at the time saying he was actually Jason Todd, which I thought this movie could ultimately support.  Also, Joker's origin, again outside of Gotham, hasn't really been touched since Jack Nicholson?  And that was as throwaway as it gets.

Also, the villain origin stories aren't as worn a road as hero origin stories.  Sure, many superhero films now focus on giving the villain a full arc, but it isn't always the central aspect of the movie.
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Offline ThePerm

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I don't know why you are trying to pre-emptively excuse this movie and the core reasons for meh. DC has the richest villain/hero stable outside of Marvel and they insist again on going back to the same well so quickly. Being a "Hamlet" is an excuse for laziness, doubly so with another origin story. It's stale right out of the gate.

You have essentially gave up on originality with your line of reasoning with "There is really only a few character archetypes anyway". You're accepting mediocrity.

I would feel the same if it was Superman or Batman. Any C lister is far more interesting right now. It would have very different restrictions and opportunities for originality. If one was to insist on this plot line would be perfect for someone like the DCAU Clock King, Temple Fugate. First 2 minutes sets him up much like Dredd did. The rest of the running time is him absolutely wreaking everyone including 2-3 C-listers who have to come together to stop him preferably not by punching the problem. Bam, you have a list of characters to make cheaper movies from with far less baggage and more forgiving comic feel. If one is a breakout hit then you have just rolled another A/B list proposition.

I highly recommend Falling Down (1993) instead watching this tired Joker movie.

I can see your point about taking on C-listers.


MCU was built on the C-list. I may not have seen as much Joker because I didn't watch much Gotham because it is a terrible show. At least it was the first season. As far as Film Cinema goes I don't count TV because it is a different beast. I might count a Premium Network TV version if one existed, but regular network TV has a way to ruin everything. I don't count cartoons either. Cartoons are another other beast. You're not constrained by reality and you have a better chance to flesh stories out more and be closer to the source material or improve the source material or go whacky.

I only count film incarnation of which the tally is:

Joker: 2 + 1(essentially a cameo) + 1(the upcoming)
Penguin: 1
Catwoman: 3
Riddler: 1
Two-Face/Harvey Dent: 3
Poison Ivy: 1
Bane: 2
Mr. Freeze: 1
Carmine Falcone: 1
Salvatore Maroni: 2
Scarecrow: 3
Ra's Al Ghul: 2 (I think he's in a flashback on TDKR)
Henri Ducard: 1ish
Talia Al Ghul: 1
Killer Croc: 1
Deadshot: 1
Harlequin: 2(including the upcoming)
Deathstroke: 1
Victor Zsasz: 1(upcoming)
Roland Daggett - 1
Joe Chill: 2

Clayface: 0
The Ventriloquist: 0
Baby Doll: 0
Rupert Thorne: 0
Blackmask: 0
Hush: 0
Man-bat: 0
Mad Hatter: 0
Dr. Hugo Strange: 0
Tony Zucco; 0
Firefly: 0.1
King Tut: 0

I'm sure I missed a good one. It's also hard to say who is specifically a DC villain and who is a Batman villain.
I'm not too terribly familiar with Hush, Blackmask, or Firefly. I'd like to see Mr. Freeze and Riddler done right. I don't know if Ventriloquist, Baby Doll, or Clayface could carry a movie. Those could work in an Anthology movie like Creepshow.
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