Topic: Hey! DC's got stuff too... (Official Thread for the DCU of Movies and TV)

[BlackNMild2k1]

It appears DC has eyes waaaay bigger than it's plate and certainly large than their stomach

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/warner-bros-plotting-nightwing-movie-lego-batman-movie-director-978737?utm_source=twitter&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

DC Planning a Nightwing movie.
This is while they were having trouble getting The Batman going (Matt Reeves is now signed on to direct though), can't get The Flash back on track, put a hold on Justice League 2, started planning Suicide Squad 2 and Gotham City Sirens, working on details for Green Lantern Corps, all but officaly canceled Cyborg, and are at best getting luke warm reception to Wonder Woman, and are about to get started on Aquaman.

I feel like they are moving way too fast, and that's part of the reason why this "Cinematic Universe" is such a mess right now. They are trying to do way too much too quickly without having ever really decided on what it is exactly that they are doing.

I just realized that I left out MoS2, and the sort of connected Black Adam, and Shazam movies.
There was also rumors of a Blue Beetle and Booster Gold movie, and a Birds of Prey movie, and a Lobo movie too. not sure if any of those rumors will ever pan out.


Point being that DC needs to figure out what they are doing before they start putting too many pieces on the board, just to show they have as much going on as Marvel.

[ThePerm]

Hugh Jackson as Lobo

[BlackNMild2k1]

and how about some WW pics











I'm going into this one with mild expectations, as this is the last hope before Justice League ultimately lets us down.

[nickmitch]

WW will be the last DCCU I see in theatres.  Well, I might still see The Batman.  Definitely skipping JL for moral reasons.

Hugh Jackson as Lobo

Lol, I still have hopes for Ron Pearlman.

[Khushrenada]

It this goes to series this will be the seventh Greg Berlanti (and his studio) has going (the four DC CW series, Blindspot and Riverdale). We won't really get an Arrow season 2 again because all of these shows are pulling for focus.

I've kind of given up on an Arrow Season 2 happening again. Arrow Season 2 worked because it had a lot of characters allowing for a lot more plotlines and stories to develop at a fast pace and bouncing off each other. By the end of Season 2, a bunch of characters were removed and the world building and expansion that had begun since the series started now began to contract. As such, this resulted in stretching out the stories and events happening around the core cast which led to a lot of wheel spinning episodes and plots. Even with the introduction a new character or two here or there in the seasons that followed, a lot of them didn't have much of a story arc to go through nor does they seem to have much effect on the core cast story arcs. It doesn't help that if they do have a direct effect they don't seem to last past the season they're in.

Let's go back to season 2. You had the Queen family drama with Moira trying to reconcile with Thea and Ollie. Laurel was struggling with Tommy's death and the surprise news that Sara was alive. Sara, of course, allowed for the introduction of Black Canary with her friend with the punk hair who's name I can't remember as well as further developing the League of Assassin's and introducing Nyssa. Oliver Queen had a business rival in Isabel Rochev. Brother Blood helped introduce Mirakuru and superpowers into the series getting Oliver involved in city politics while moving along Roy Harper's desire to work with the Arrow and join the team. In the flashbacks, we had Shado and Slade with Oliver also facing off against Professor Morrow and his crew. Add on top of that the re-appearance of Malcolm Merlyn (which has had quite varying success) and development of the Suicide Squad with Argus and Amanda Waller and you've got a lot of pieces to work with. Heck, they even helped get the Flash series set-up introducing Barry Allen along with Sisko and Caitlyn.

At the end of season 2, everyone on the island flashbacks was going except for Oliver. They completely emptied out everything they had been building and have had to start over on flashback material for each season afterwards and the flashbacks have suffered since then. Brother Blood and the Mirakuru formula was eliminated. Isabelle Rochev was eliminated taking Queen Consolidated with her thereby eliminating more potential stories and plot from that. They tried to keep that element around with Ray Palmer and then Felicity has the head of the company but it's never worked as well as when Oliver was struggling to figure out how to accomplish his mission to save the city while having to look after the family business. How does Oliver get any money these days? Is everyone else paying for his stuff? Moira Queen was taken off the board but it might have been interesting to keep her around as mayor instead. The biggest blow was the removal of Slade Wilson. By far the best villain because of all the time they had given him to develop and not only did they lose him for the flashbacks but he was the big bad of the present and aside from a brief appearance in the next season has pretty much disappeared from the show. They haven't had a villain come close to what he was like. Damian Darhk had some potential but his storyline fell apart a bit after the halfway point and stumbled into the end.

While Barry and his friends have popped up in an episode here and there since, they clearly weren't meant to be regulars so their lack of regularity is to be expected. What was unexpected was the sudden removal of Sara Lance. She's killed at the start of Season 2 pretty much removing her from the show and she's now migrated to LoT in the end along with Ray Palmer. Her removal also meant that her punk friend has disappeared from the show. Not that the character added a lot but at least she'd be around for a bit getting some development. By the end of season 3, the Suicide Squad and Amanda Waller were pretty much removed aside from the occasional flashback by Waller. Roy Harper also left. While making Thea into the Red Arrow/Arsenal has been one of the positives to develop since the end of season 2, it's still another character with lots more potential being removed. Heck, by the end of Season 4, the League of Assassin's has pretty much been dismantled and Laurel is dead further downsizing the world and cast. I'm not even going to get into how that was the wrong decision. The character that should have been eliminated at that point was Quentin Lance. I haven't seen anything from Season 5 but if he's still on the police force, I don't know how that's possible considering his testimony of working with Damien in Season 4. I like Quentin but at that point it just felt like his character had gone through most of what it could. Instead it's Laurel who they'd finally rehabilitated into a likeable character and one of the better elements of the show at that point.

[Khushrenada]

While I could go further into the faults of the show, to me, the two biggest issues are that the shows need to take some direction from their comic counterparts and the idea that most of the characters (hero and villain) often live to fight another day. I get that it is tempting to off characters because maybe you only planned for them to stick around for a season and their arc is completed but why couldn't they return for revenge? I get that it keeps the stakes raised in that you never know which characters might survive or if they will outside of one or two main characters but removing them eliminates a someone with a lot of backstory and weight that could still have more potential. Now you've got to introduce a new character and start building them up. The result is that the show has changed so much. Like I pointed out, so many of the elements they had in Season 2 are gone now.

The other solution is to perhaps stop sharing and interacting so much with the other superhero shows. The Flash was doing well in building up its universe through its first season but it's second season didn't hit a groove like Arrow did. I think in part because it had to help set-up the Legends of Tomorrow show along with Arrow and then lost some of its characters in Firestorm, Captain Cold and Heat Wave to that show ruining the whole Rogues dynamic of the Flash. Likewise, there's been changes in characters like Harrison Wells or Barry's Dad who's now Jay Garrick which sort of eliminates the backstory of these characters while also sort of keeping them around.

Anyways I'm getting off course again. I'm not sure how Supergirl is doing this year (quick scan of AV Club reviews seem to give it a solid B+/B season so far) but, ironically, it is the show best positioned to have an Arrow Season 2 type run. Because it was on another network before moving and so it couldn't crossover that well, they put it's setting in a parallel universe from the Arrowverse. That bubble has meant that Supergirl has to build its world up without help from the Arrowverse for the most part. As well, it helps keep all the Superman/Supergirl story elements and characters contained to that series making it more unique and since that's the only place to utilize them then the writers should be more hesitant to eliminate them since it would be harder to bring them back. Not like eliminated Sara Lance at the start of Season 3. Changing their minds and bringing her back in a convoluted way in Season 4 so that they could continue to have Sara Lance but in LoT. Now see Laurel Lance for more of this in action.

It's like how Gotham gets to have all kinds of Batman elements on its show and because it is unconnected to the Arrowverse it can only build up internally making it less susceptible to outside influences to change the show from how it has been developing. Of course, I say this without having seen it. Same goes for Agents of Shield. A big complaint of season 1 for some was the connectivity to the movies although some people also liked that. I'm not sure what it has been like since but my understanding is that the connectivity isn't as firm as it was in the first season where it's timeline was linked directly to movie releases. Although Netflix has begun to do Marvel shows, they keep the series short and characters are largely self contained and not really crossing over much between shows from my understanding. Thus, this still leaves Agents of Shield with a lot of Marvel material to work with and introduce into their show compared to the Arrowverse which has been grabbing stuff all over and using it up a rapid pace over its shared shows. Sometimes it doesn't help to share and would be best to just be self-contained.

[Khushrenada]

It appears DC has eyes waaaay bigger than it's plate and certainly large than their stomach

DC Planning a Nightwing movie.

This is while they were having trouble getting The Batman going (Matt Reeves is now signed on to direct though), can't get The Flash back on track, put a hold on Justice League 2, started planning Suicide Squad 2 and Gotham City Sirens, working on details for Green Lantern Corps, all but officaly canceled Cyborg, and are at best getting luke warm reception to Wonder Woman, and are about to get started on Aquaman.

I feel like they are moving way too fast, and that's part of the reason why this "Cinematic Universe" is such a mess right now. They are trying to do way too much too quickly without having ever really decided on what it is exactly that they are doing.

Point being that DC needs to figure out what they are doing before they start putting too many pieces on the board, just to show they have as much going on as Marvel.

For that matter, I kind of like that the WB movie-verse is potentially all over the place. I think they should just let different directors or producers tell the story they want with a character. If one director wanted to do a movie with Superman in a futuristic city of tomorrow in a comedy facing off against Mr. Mxyzptlk and someone else wanted to do a Nightwing movie set in the 80's in a Die Hard type situation against a contingent of the League of Assassins holding some people hostage, I say go for it. And if a third person wants to make a movie where Superman and Nightwing team-up with Martin Manhunter to stop a White Martian invasion in a sort of Twilight Zone / Invasion of the Body Snatchers atmosphere then do that to because I don't really care how they can all exist in the same universe or how they would be connected. I don't care if it is a new actor playing the same character for each of those films or the same actor playing all of the characters. It's about the story for me.

To me, most superhero characters are malleable and able to fit in a lot of genres or settings. It's like Sherlock Holmes. You've got the Conan Doyle originals of Victorian London yet there's modern adaptations and tweaks to the mythos that allow him to work in modern times like Elementary or Sherlock. You can even turn him into a bit of a Victorian action hero like the Robert Downey Sherlock Holmes movies. Or you can reinvent him as a doctor and call him House, MD. So, it is with superheros.

DC has done multiple takes on these characters allowing for all kinds of interpretations. I say let that be what makes their Movie Universe unique. Let Marvel do the connectivity thing. (Frankly, I think it's starting to hurt their films and stories a bit.) Sure, it might not always be a success. Letting Nolan have his vision of Batman worked out better than Snyder's vision of Superman in Man of Steel but at least you can always try again with someone else's vision of Superman instead of having to cancel all kinds of projects or redevelop some kind of movie universe timeline. Even with a shared universe, characters have to be changed and molded a bit to fit into it anyways. I get that by keeping it shared, it can almost ensure any movie released in that universe would be a success as people keep following the background pieces of the story and watching for the shared elements. Avengers 2 leads to Civil War which leads to Black Panther keep going to those movies to keep up with developments.

So, yes, there is that potential path but I propose they follow a different Disney path. The Pixar path. Finding Nemo is a different universe than Toy Story which is a different universe than The Incredibles or Wall-E or Inside Out. They've got varying different styles and stories yet their self-contained nature does not diminish them. However, by ensuring that the end product is good for each film, it has created a brand loyalty so that people pay attention when Pixar releases a new film. It almost becomes a ritual to see the latest one. Even though they may have a clunker or two like Cars or Brave because they're unique some people can still like them and there's the knowledge that next time will be different for those who don't like it. I think DC should try and tailor their movies to that approach. I feel it could make for a very special brand of movies and be their best approach to compete with Marvel and possibly create something special like The Dark Knight did. Make it story focused and that each film tells the best story it can with that property or in the setting it's given. Don't worry about connectivity and setting up future sequels or other franchises. Keep it as self-contained as possible.

[BlackNMild2k1]

but that's kinda what they were doing before... then Marvel changed the game.

They could have easily made a Superman trilogy and a new Batman Trilogy and worked on some other stuff, and when they got to The Flash trilogy, they could have done some Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 3 dimensional portal hopping, crisis on infinite earths thing joining forces beat a global threat. if they still really wanted to connect it all. But what they have right now is a mess and it's only 3 movies deep, with 2 more on the way this year, and at least 1 planned for release next year as well.

If they want to move forward connected or unconnected, they still need to figure out what they want to accomplish before they start putting too many pieces in play. If they are really trying to justify a separate studio approach with DC Films, then they still need to make sure their business model is sustainable before they bankrupt themselves with too many projects on the table before they are sure their direction is truly profitable. I'm aware that BvS & SS alone have probably made enough money to fund the next 3 movies, but if WW under performs, and JL fails to meet expectations, they still have Aquaman and 5-6 other announced movies in various stages of pre-production, making it very costly to start a massive scaling back.

That Marvel $$$ is very tempting, and I don't blame them for wanting to follow the model and have a built in audience that's GUARANTEED to follow you from movie to movie as they know they are all semi-sequels to one another, but these movies still need to make sense, and more importantly be good. They won't all make sense if they just have random directors doing what they want with the characters and then superficially adding in connectivity scenes just to say "oh hay, see these are in the same universe" but other scenes kinda contradict that very thing by being inconsistent with another directors portrayal of the same character, event or timeline.


and just for clarity, I left out another movie that's been announced so I'll make a list:


Wonder Woman
Justice League
Aquaman
The Batman
The Flash
Justice League 2
Suicide Squad 2
Gotham City Sirens
Green Lantern Corps
Man of Steel 2
Nightwing
Black Adam
Shazaam
Cyborg (cancelled?)

That's 14 announced but unreleased movies in their Cinematic Universe when they've only released 3 so far, and only 1 of those reviewed decently even if all 3 of them made money. They should have only announced up through Justice League, which probably should have come after The Flash and Aquaman. I know they want to generate hype and let everyone know there's a future in this DCCU, but I think they just have their fingers in too many pies at once, and the whole project will suffer, especially as they didn't have a clear cut trajectory before they announced a majority of these projects.

[UncleBob]

WW will be the last DCCU I see in theatres.  Well, I might still see The Batman.  Definitely skipping JL for moral reasons.

Hugh Jackson as Lobo

Lol, I still have hopes for Ron Pearlman.

No, Rhea Perlman.

[BlackNMild2k1]

WW will be the last DCCU I see in theatres.  Well, I might still see The Batman.  Definitely skipping JL for moral reasons.

Hugh Jackson as Lobo

Lol, I still have hopes for Ron Pearlman.

No, Rhea Perlman.

Haha. Carla from Cheers!!? Haven't seen her since... Cheers.
I didn't know she was married to Danny Devito.

pre-post edit: just checked her IMDB and I'm surprised at how busy she's been and even been in roles I just didn't realize were here in things I've seen.

[UncleBob]

I mean, it's the DC movie universe.  Why not?

[Plugabugz]

While Khush has mentioned the DC shows in detail, Blindspot is arguably the worst of them all under that umbella.

In season 1, two of the main characters (Zapata and Reade) are defined away from the main plot as Zapata having gambling problems and Reade dating his boss' sister - literally nothing else. These two are friends. In season 2, Reade he found out he was abused as a child by his football coach but he doesn't remember, and when he went to confront the coach he was found dead and Zapata found him over the body who helped to cover it up.

They later find out one of Reade's school friends did it (who was also abused but does remember). Reade finds a tape with his name on it (with many others), but doesn't watch it. Instead he helps his friend leave town, starts dating his friends now ex-girlfriend and is now taking drugs all while telling everyone else that "everything is fine".

"Spinning its wheels" is a mild way to put it. At least with the DC CW shows, some elements (like Curtis and Mister Terrific) are going slowly, pieces are falling into place and has plenty more storylines going to keep things going around it.

Just make him watch the tape, fall apart and show us the fallout rather than manage to stretch this out for the season.

Blindspot has the pieces to make this good, but instead its trying to stretch this out over a season for no reason. Zapata has no storyline of her own this season. Both only have something to do when required by the main plot, otherwise.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Not sure if this contains new footage, but here is a new trailer for Wonder Woman

[BlackNMild2k1]

New WW Trailer tomorrow
here is a teaser for now
https://twitter.com/WonderWomanFilm/status/840313963699101696

[BlackNMild2k1]

WW Trrailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLzqh7rZ-U


edit: This trailer instills faith. It looks like it could be fun.
I'm not trying to get any hopes up, but maybe the DCEU won't be all trash after all.


for the record:
BvS trailer looked like it was going to be bad. that turned out to be correct (Batman was best thing in this movie).
Suicide Squad trailer looked like it might be pretty fun... that turned out to be partially correct (Joker was terrible, and the movie wasn't that good, but it was kinda entertaining).

[BlackNMild2k1]

The Batman delayed again, rescripted from scratch.
http://www.slashfilm.com/the-batman-screenplay-and-delays/

[nickmitch]

Not sure if that's good or bad.  The article flat out states that people's reactions to excessive rewrites are overkill, but when has that not been the case?  So many bad films were bad because of the number of rewrites.

Starting over from scratch sounds a bit better, especially if they're no longer trying to hit a release date.  I think that's the kernel of good news here.

[Shorty McNostril]

The Batman delayed again, rescripted from scratch.

Well if I recall correctly that was Affleck's own script I believe, so I imagine this would add more reason for him to bail on the role.

[Khushrenada]

Guess that means the Deathstroke Footage from awhile back is null and void.

[nickmitch]

Probably for the best.  Wasn't he the main villain in Arrow for a while?

[Stratos]

I half figured the reason he "disappeared" from Arrow was because they wanted to use him for the DCU. That is what they did with Deadshot/Suicide Squad.


Almost think they should scrap DCCU and just focus on TV shows. After solidifying their bases on TV they could then try some TV adaptations in the same universe.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Aquaman Justice League trailer teaser

https://vid.me/bhyn

Full trailer this Saturday.

[nickmitch]

I wonder if it's too early to start hyping JL like this with WW still on the way.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The Flash JL trailer teaser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt0LeCAFSjk

[BlackNMild2k1]

Batman JL Teaser
Batman teaser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDZKPzEnZ-4