Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: ymeegod on July 21, 2011, 11:29:22 PM
Title: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: ymeegod on July 21, 2011, 11:29:22 PM
Not that I'm against 12 new characters but isn't it a bit to soon? MvC3 launched earlier this year and about 6 months later this comes along. Mind you it wouldn't have been bad if it was DLC but this is a stand alone product meaning if you want to play with the new characters you're going have to buy this version. Glad I waited but I can see this pissing off more than a few people who bought the orginal. Oh yeah, one of those 12 new characters is Phoenix Wright? So I'm guessing UMvC 3 is going to one of nintendo's new systems if not both.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: broodwars on July 21, 2011, 11:48:51 PM
I'd actually be very surprised if the Wii U got Marvel vs. Capcom 3. By the time the Wii U releases, Capcom will probably be concentrating on their next big fighting game, which will probably be Street Fighter x Tekken (or is it the other way around for that first game?). I don't know if they'll want to port a year-old fighting game at that point.
As for the game itself, I'm just glad I merely borrowed the first MvC3 instead of purchasing it. I'll consider buying this one if this has the story mode Capcom was obviously too lazy to put in the original game.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Adrock on July 22, 2011, 12:25:01 AM
Capcom recently released Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition so I wouldn't put it past them to release another version of Marvel Vs Capcom 3. That version could make it's way to Wii U... along with a most likely upgraded Mortal Kombat.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 22, 2011, 12:54:53 AM
Not that I'm against 12 new characters but isn't it a bit to soon? MvC3 launched earlier this year and about 6 months later this comes along. Mind you it wouldn't have been bad if it was DLC but this is a stand alone product meaning if you want to play with the new characters you're going have to buy this version.
We were talking about this in the fight game general thread!
I think the idea was to scrap all of the DLC plans for MVC3 and put it in a new disc along with a buttload of fixes and features and stuff. I take issue with your "wouldn't have been bad if it was DLC" statement because the going price for DLC characters is $5 a pop - it's a much better value to get 12 more characters on a $40 disc (along with the new stages and fixes and whatever else - like substantial technical changes that wouldn't be possible via dlc).
I think that PSN being down for a greater portion of MVC3's lifespan may have also had an affect on this. Lol.
So, yeah, I'm saying UMvC3 is a good deal.
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I'll consider buying this one if this has the story mode Capcom was obviously too lazy to put in the original game.
I still think you are in the minority if this is your top concern.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Morari on July 22, 2011, 01:02:02 AM
Mistake?! Capcom has successfully sold Street Fighter IV a total of three times! MvC3 was an unfinished game, everyone knew it by the lack of features and pathetically small roster. This isn't a surprise at all.
My advice? Don't buy it. Mortal Kombat is the only fighting game you need right now.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: broodwars on July 22, 2011, 01:05:59 AM
My advice? Don't buy it. Mortal Kombat is the only fighting game you need right now.
I actually probably would if the controls were a bit more like MvC3 or the first BlazBlue. I have a great deal of respect for those developers for putting the effort into a real story mode for that game, not to mention all the post-launch support it's gotten. It's just not a game I have any skill with.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 22, 2011, 01:12:44 AM
Mistake?! Capcom has successfully sold Street Fighter IV a total of three times! MvC3 was an unfinished game, everyone knew it by the lack of features and pathetically small roster. This isn't a surprise at all.
My advice? Don't buy it. Mortal Kombat is the only fighting game you need right now.
I don't think MK is better, and should be getting more heat for having garbage ass netcode. MvC3 may not have spectator mode, but ffs at least the online is playable. Also 30+ viable characters is a pathetically small roster? lol
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Morari on July 22, 2011, 01:49:18 AM
It's pathetically small when half the fun of MvC2 was the ridiculously huge roster. Capcom phoned it in big time with MvC3, and this glorified expansion pack proves it.
Everyone always complains about netcode... in everything. I've played Mortal Kombat pretty extensively and have never had any issues. It may exist, but I suspect most reports have more to do with crappy internet connections and poor network setups.
Outside of adding Freddy Kruger to the roster, Mortal Kombat has done everything right. It is the fighting game that all others should strive to be more like.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 22, 2011, 02:19:31 AM
It's pathetically small when half the fun of MvC2 was the ridiculously huge roster. Capcom phoned it in big time with MvC3, and this glorified expansion pack proves it.
Let's do some comparison: MVC3 has 38, all new character models and all viable threats to the other player in the game. MVC2 has 56, all but 7 are recycled sprites from old games, and maybe like 15 characters tops you can pick without being murdered for free once you progress beyond baby button masher level. Putting 38 characters even just in the ballpark of being balanced in a new game is effort-central.
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Everyone always complains about netcode... in everything. I've played Mortal Kombat pretty extensively and have never had any issues. It may exist, but I suspect most reports have more to do with crappy internet connections and poor network setups.
Don't you tell me that, it is widely motherfucking documented that it's awful and I have also experienced it first hand.
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Outside of adding Freddy Kruger to the roster, Mortal Kombat has done everything right. It is the fighting game that all others should strive to be more like.
I agree that it is a good game, and has done a lot of things right, but it also has still done a lot of **** wrong (awful practice options, awful netplay)
MVC3 is the best fighting game so far this year
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Morari on July 22, 2011, 02:29:18 AM
You seem to be quite the MvC3 apologist. That's fine. It's a fun competitive game, but doesn't really do anything particular well outside of that. Furthermore, it's lacking severely in comparison to not only its predecessor, but also modern peers.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 22, 2011, 02:45:59 AM
We can agree to disagree on what the important parts of a fighting game are, but you're still being disingenious.
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It's a fun competitive game, but doesn't really do anything particular well outside of that.
You can play it online without it shitting itself, and you don't even need to buy an online pass if you got it used. Laffo.
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Furthermore, it's lacking severely in comparison to not only its predecessor, but also modern peers.
I figure you're not the type to use practice mode, but it has the most brilliant and comprehensive practice mode ever. It's the one that all fighting games should copy. In MK, you can't even record. They tried to patch it in last I checked, but they botched hilariously (it records both players, not just the dummy, so you can't practice setups AT ALL - correct me if I'm wrong here if they've fixed this recently)
Also it has more characters than every fighting game this year, except SSF4 AE, which has one more.
What is it 'lacking' exactly? Are you saying story mode or fatalities are whatever are more important than playing well and having a diverse roster?
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: ymeegod on July 22, 2011, 03:15:23 AM
I didn't say it wasn't a value though that's a bit different from my topic. I'm saying it's too soon and those that bought it new are going feel cheated by those that waited a mere 6 months.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Morari on July 22, 2011, 03:18:39 AM
I would say that a story mode is actually pretty important nowadays. It especially seems like a no-brainer when you have such rich characters to work with. Furthermore, I would not consider MvC3's roster very robust for what it is. Apparently I'm not alone, as Capcom is going to remedy that somewhat. I never use practice modes in general, so I don't know how it compares to other games. Mortal Kombat tends to give you a good rundown of the mechanics, move sets, and special moves throughout its story mode and challenge ladder though. While I don't think that a dedicated "training area" should be abandoned in favor of it, I think that integrating some of it into a fleshed out plot helps to ease people in and keep them engaged long enough to actually learn the basics.
I won't disagree with you as to why the game is good. I do think that you're cutting it a bit too much slack in a lot of areas though. The mechanics are great, but it's a very stripped-down product. The fact that Capcom can manage to add so significantly to it within less than a year sort of proves it too.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: ymeegod on July 22, 2011, 03:27:47 AM
Also someone mentioned SSF4 Arcade, it was a standalone but it was also an DLC for those that already owned SSF4. The DLC was $15 and the standalone was $40.
And lastly if these's rumors are correct, the DLC characters for MvC3 don't transfer meaning you'll have to pay for them again? That's just plain wrong if it's true.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 22, 2011, 03:42:18 AM
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Mortal Kombat tends to give you a good rundown of the mechanics, move sets, and special moves throughout its story mode and challenge ladder though.
Story mode doesn't, it just throws you to the wolves. (well, I guess if the wolves were puppies, since it was pretty easy) I didn't play challenge tower - does it teach you how to use all the different stuff to win?
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And lastly if these's rumors are correct, the DLC characters for MvC3 don't transfer meaning you'll have to pay for them again? That's just plain wrong if it's true.
Where did you see that? I believe it was widely understood that they'd transfer, like the DLC from SF4 to SSF4.
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I didn't say it wasn't a value though that's a bit different from my topic. I'm saying it's too soon and those that bought it new are going feel cheated by those that waited a mere 6 months.
Yeah, some people are going to feel cheated, but I don't because the update is a good value. People that skipped buying MvC3 to hold out for the update can pat themselves on the back for saving sixty bucks (I'm assuming they aren't part of the competitive scene and don't mind being bad at the game when it comes out)
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Morari on July 22, 2011, 11:05:15 AM
Yeah, some people are going to feel cheated, but I don't because the update is a good value.
Really? You don't feel the least bit slighted by this? You essentially purchased an incomplete game less than a year ago, and now must repurchase it for next to full price if you want to keep up. It feels like Capcom wants to sell their games like EA sells Madden. There really is no excuse for this not to be an add-on. Consoles really have no excuse to skip going the expansion pack route nowadays.
Ethics aside? It looks like a huge improvement. I'm glad that they're expanding the roster to be a bit more like it should have from the get go. I do wish they'd reintroduce more of the "obscure" characters before representing a more prominent title with two (or more) slot though. It's starting to feel a bit like "Resident Evil & Street Fighter vs Marvel". Hehe. I mean, we used to have oddballs like Hayato, Jin, and even Captain Commando. If they wanted to, Capcom could easily segregate their VS games. Just have a "Capcom VS" title with a huge roster of exclusively Capcom characters, or a "Marvel VS" with 100% Marvel characters. *shrugs*
Anyway... All of the real competitive types jumped ship to BlazBlue a long time ago. :P
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Ian Sane on July 22, 2011, 12:37:33 PM
Fighting games are like Pokemon. Never get the first version because the "Champion Edition" is always right around the corner. There's a reason I own Super Street Fighter IV but not Street Fighter IV.
You can complain about this but it's been the way the fighting genre has worked since the numerous variations of Street Fighter II. I was never thrilled about the convention but I'm never surprised to see it.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 22, 2011, 10:40:30 PM
It's funny how Capcom was able to revitalize the 2D fighting genre with Street Fighter IV, and now they're doing all they can to kill it again. It's like they don't realize that the yearly installments of the same damn game is one of the main reason people got sick of the damn genre in the first place. Nobody wanted to buy the games anymore because they new a better version would be released a year later, and then another better version after that.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 23, 2011, 03:52:32 AM
Really? You don't feel the least bit slighted by this? You essentially purchased an incomplete game less than a year ago, and now must repurchase it for next to full price if you want to keep up.
I put in hundreds of hours into each release, so it's not like I'm not getting my money's worth. I play more MVC3 than any other game right now because it is the best game
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Anyway... All of the real competitive types jumped ship to BlazBlue a long time ago. :P:
Uh, no. All the competitive types call it Bad Guilty Gear. MVC3 has the most entered people for EVO this year, and I'm pretty sure BlazBlue has the least or second to least
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Arbok on July 23, 2011, 11:37:00 AM
I do wish they'd reintroduce more of the "obscure" characters before representing a more prominent title with two (or more) slot though.
Rocket Raccoon and Phoenix Wright don't fit that bill? If you are fan of obscure, Capcom made 'Tatsunoko vs Capcom' just for that and it makes the game feel very different.
If anything, Marvel vs. Capcom 3 needs more prominent characters right now. It still lacks Megaman and still has no additional characters from the Spider-man franchise.
Either way, if this comes to the Wii U, I will eat it up like candy and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it does.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Morari on July 23, 2011, 12:39:27 PM
I wouldn't say that Phoenix Wright is very obscure. It's been a pretty visible series for years. I don't know how many people actually play it though, due to the genre. I'll agree that MvC3 does need more prominent Marvel characters, though. Megaman is at least represented as a franchise by two or three characters.
Uh, no. All the competitive types call it Bad Guilty Gear. MVC3 has the most entered people for EVO this year, and I'm pretty sure BlazBlue has the least or second to least
I meant real cyber-athletes... not those posers. It's okay though, there's no shame in being a casual fan of the genre. Someone needs to lose, after all.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 23, 2011, 02:27:28 PM
Cyber-athletes, hahaha. Those people do not deserve to be called athletes because there is zero athletics involved. Tournament players is more like it.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 23, 2011, 06:26:12 PM
Uh, no. All the competitive types call it Bad Guilty Gear. MVC3 has the most entered people for EVO this year, and I'm pretty sure BlazBlue has the least or second to least
I meant real cyber-athletes... not those posers. It's okay though, there's no shame in being a casual fan of the genre. Someone needs to lose, after all.
Haha, I love you Morari
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Morari on July 23, 2011, 07:23:05 PM
Uh, no. All the competitive types call it Bad Guilty Gear. MVC3 has the most entered people for EVO this year, and I'm pretty sure BlazBlue has the least or second to least
I meant real cyber-athletes... not those posers. It's okay though, there's no shame in being a casual fan of the genre. Someone needs to lose, after all.
Haha, I love you Morari
Quit it. Our sarcasm is going to cancel each other out. :P
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: ecastlinhutch on July 23, 2011, 09:49:31 PM
I don't understand this . . . They didn't need to package this as a whole new game. It could have been DLC.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 23, 2011, 09:57:51 PM
I don't understand this . . . They didn't need to package this as a whole new game. It could have been DLC.
I'm pretty sure that was the plan to start with, but I'm guessing they took a look at it while they were doing it and decided a disc release made more sense. 12 characters, 8 stages, spectator mode + whatever else they put in, and an overhaul of the x-factor system would either cost a lot more than $40 via dlc or just not happen at all.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Morari on July 23, 2011, 10:08:02 PM
I don't know why it would cost more as DLC. If anything, it would be cheaper. There is far less overhead in producing DLC, as you cut out the need for physical media and distribution.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 23, 2011, 10:17:22 PM
I don't know why it would cost more as DLC. If anything, it would be cheaper. There is far less overhead in producing DLC, as you cut out the need for physical media and distribution.
Yes, but it would never work out that way in practice. Maybe because Sony and Microsoft control the distribution and have to approve each item individually and want piles of money for it, or whatever. The bottom line is that DLC characters in fighting games are five dollars.
I also suspect that stuff like the DHC glitch can't be patched out for technical reasons, or they would have done it already (it's gone in the comic-con build). So, a new disc is a best way to fix, change, and add every single thing Capcom and/or the fans want at once.
except Megaman, lol
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Arbok on July 23, 2011, 10:30:09 PM
Have they mentioned anywhere what their plans are for the x-factor system?
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 23, 2011, 10:38:20 PM
In the comic-con build: Damage is way lower. It may be that it doesn't boost regular attack damage, only super attack damage, or something like that. You can activitate it in the air now. I think Seth Killian said they're still tooling aound with it and it's subject to further change.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 23, 2011, 11:24:25 PM
I don't know why it would cost more as DLC. If anything, it would be cheaper. There is far less overhead in producing DLC, as you cut out the need for physical media and distribution.
Maybe because Sony and Microsoft control the distribution and have to approve each item individually and want piles of money for it, or whatever. The bottom line is that DLC characters in fighting games are five dollars.
Only the greedy publishers charged $5 or more for characters. Super Street Fighter IV lets you download the Arcade Edition, which features all of the patches and expansions that the retail release contains. It also features foure new characters. The Arcade Edition download is $15. There is no reason Capcom couldn't have done the same here, unless Marvel Comics didn't want them to do it (or they realized that most people who want the game would rather have paid $15 to download the updates rather than pay $40+ tax for it).
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Morari on July 24, 2011, 12:12:51 AM
I like how Capcom is basically holding popular characters ransom to ensure that fans purchase each incremental update. You want Strider? Better buy Super Marvel vs Capcom 3! Oh, you want Megaman? Just wait for Super Marvel vs Capcom 3: Turdo Championship Edition!
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 24, 2011, 12:41:36 AM
Only the greedy publishers charged $5 or more for characters.
Yeah, that would be "all of them"
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Super Street Fighter IV lets you download the Arcade Edition, which features all of the patches and expansions that the retail release contains. It also features foure new characters. The Arcade Edition download is $15. There is no reason Capcom couldn't have done the same here, unless Marvel Comics didn't want them to do it (or they realized that most people who want the game would rather have paid $15 to download the updates rather than pay $40+ tax for it).
The Marvel update is much, much more expansive than the SSF4 update. 12 new characters to 4, 8 new stages to 0, plus the top down changes I talked about. I believe they are adding new moves for some of the existing characters as well. The SSF4 AE update was relatively small compared to the MVC3 update, and comparing them is stupid. MVC3 *needs* a disc release for this scale of update.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 24, 2011, 12:54:49 AM
Only the greedy publishers charged $5 or more for characters.
Yeah, that would be "all of them"
Not quite. Take WWE All-Stars for example. You can get the "All-Time Greats Pack" for $4, which include the characters Hawk, Animal, Chris Jericho, and Jerry Lawler. The "Million Dollar Pack" is $2 and contain Ted DiBiase and Ted DiBiase, Jr. The "American Dream Pack" is $2 and has Dusty Rhodes and Cody Rhodes. That means they basically charge $1 per character. They also have a piece of free DLC that contains a compatibility update as well as a new character in The Honky Tonk Man. So THQ isn't being greedy, $1 is a good price for extra characters (maybe $2).
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 24, 2011, 01:22:37 AM
I haven't played a WWE game in years, so stop me if I'm wrong here, but here's what MVC3 characters have that WWE characters don't: - voice actors - unique animations that don't date back to PS1 - careful testing for balance up to tournament level - associated art and music (endings, etc)
It's *easy* to poop out cookie cutter WWE characters that barely play differently from each other, if at all - serious fighting game characters take real effort and resources. Ever wonder why there's no THQ WWE tournament scene?
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 24, 2011, 01:29:44 AM
WWE All-Stars are more of an arcade game, so it features new animations. There is voice acting in the game (not every character since some of the wrestles are dead in real life), and there is audio commentary. Not sure about testing for tournaments. Not sure on the art and music since I don't own the game.
People who plain in fighting game tournaments usually play only those games and are not exactly the most sociable. People who tend to play wrestling games are those who watch the show and don't usually compete in tournaments. The characters do play differently.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 24, 2011, 01:52:26 AM
WWE All-Stars are more of an arcade game, so it features new animations. There is voice acting in the game (not every character since some of the wrestles are dead in real life), and there is audio commentary.
I'm watching game video now and the wrestlers aren't talking!
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Not sure about testing for tournaments. Not sure on the art and music since I don't own the game.
I looked it up for you, the answer is no.
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People who plain in fighting game tournaments usually play only those games and are not exactly the most sociable.
Maybe you should go to a tournament or talk to someone who has (me) before you get any more lost in a nightmare world of posting incorrect things you know nothing about. Nice job on the retarded stereotype, by the way.
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The characters do play differently.
Yeah, no, not so much, I'm seeing recycled moves everywhere outside signature moves.
So, no, you really can't compare $1 wrestling buddies to MVC3 characters, which are much more substantial.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 24, 2011, 01:59:04 AM
Not a ton of voice acting, but the Path of Champions does have voice acting in the cutscenes. You may not like wrestling games, but the effort to put create and put in new characters is no less than other fighting games and still doesn't change the idea that $5 is too much for one character (yet alone $7).
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 24, 2011, 02:11:29 AM
the effort to put create and put in new characters is no less than other fighting games and still doesn't change the idea that $5 is too much for one character (yet alone $7).
You are going to have to back this up, because I have already provided a lot of evidence to the contrary. Honestly, you should just admit you are wrong and that it was a bad comparison to make.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 24, 2011, 02:14:04 AM
What evidence? You claim that the characters are worth $5 a piece, I say they aren't. You have not shown $5/$7 is justifiable. You may not like the game or whatever, but THQ has the right pricing model.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: bustin98 on July 24, 2011, 02:26:02 AM
In a world where a Rock Band song is $1.99 and a Call of Duty map pack is $15, I feel inclinded to feel that $5 for a character is a bit much. 7 or 8 characters for $15 would seem more logical.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 24, 2011, 02:43:40 AM
What I "claimed" was the $5 price point is the standard for fighting game characters and you can't equate janky WWE DLC characters with them.
I haven't played a WWE game in years, so stop me if I'm wrong here, but here's what MVC3 characters have that WWE characters don't: - voice actors - unique animations that don't date back to PS1 - careful testing for balance up to tournament level - associated art and music (endings, etc)
It's *easy* to poop out cookie cutter WWE characters that barely play differently from each other, if at all - serious fighting game characters take real effort and resources. Ever wonder why there's no THQ WWE tournament scene?
WWE All-Stars are more of an arcade game, so it features new animations. There is voice acting in the game (not every character since some of the wrestles are dead in real life), and there is audio commentary.
I'm watching game video now and the wrestlers aren't talking!
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Not sure about testing for tournaments. Not sure on the art and music since I don't own the game.
I looked it up for you, the answer is no.
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The characters do play differently.
Yeah, no, not so much, I'm seeing recycled moves everywhere outside signature moves.
Did you know??: Every punch and kick of an MVC3 character is a unique animation made for just that character! Every character has *several minutes* of unique lines that they use *in matches*. And in two different languages if they're from the Capcom side, unless they are the dog or something Every character has rigorous testing and reworking for game balance! Every character has unique music composed for them, unique hand-drawn comic style endings, and a bunch of words written by Marvel writer Frank Tieri.
WWE guys have none of these things. I'm sure we have our own opinions about how much MVC3 guys are worth, but it is obvious it's more than a dollar, which I think is appropriate for a WWE character.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Adrock on July 24, 2011, 11:21:32 AM
More like 3. Only a masochist would call Evil Ryu a new character and gladly pay money for him. I'd probably say the same for Oni AKA Shin Akuma Plus. So more like 2...... Yes, I'm joking (kind of). Companies get away with this because the people are all like (http://i.imgur.com/u950s.jpg)
Every punch and kick of an MVC3 character is a unique animation made for just that character!
I agree for this very reason. Wrestling moves are mo-capped if I remember correctly and a DDT is still a DDT, a leg drop is still a leg drop etc. They most likely use the same animation for every wrestler (entertainer according to VKM?) who uses the moves.
Just to jump in then descend back into the shadows. I don't think UMvC3 is comparable to Arcade Edition. It's far more comparable to SSFIV. The update is too extensive for DLC. That doesn't make it any less shitty for the people who bought the original game just a few months ago, but who really didn't see this coming? I kept insisting to a friend of mine to not buy Marvel vs. Capcom 3 because I was confident Capcom would release a new "Super/Turbo" version and he said "Capcom never did this with the previous Marvel vs. Capcom games..." Poor, deluded fool.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: broodwars on July 24, 2011, 03:07:05 PM
Every character has rigorous testing and reworking for game balance!
Oh how cute. Someone actually thinks Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is balanced. Clearly, you've never run into a Sentinel or Dark Phoenix player. I'm also amused that you think the game was "rigorously tested" considering all the exploits players have found for infinite combos. I also found the netcode for MvC3 pretty terrible in the time I spent online. I never could get even the most basic player Search to return a single game. I could only ever get a game through the extremely terrible Lobbies.
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unique hand-drawn comic style endings, and a bunch of words written by Marvel writer Frank Tieri.
Ok, let's make one thing clear about these "endings": they're one or two pieces of artwork with some text that advances to the next piece of artwork. That's hardly an "ending", especially considering what I've heard of Super Street Fighter 4's FMV endings. It's not like Capcom really went all out on them. Like so much of MvC3, Capcom put as little effort into them as they thought they could get away with.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 24, 2011, 03:56:44 PM
Oh how cute. Someone actually thinks Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is balanced. Clearly, you've never run into a Sentinel or Dark Phoenix player. I'm also amused that you think the game was "rigorously tested" considering all the exploits players have found for infinite combos.
You're aware I play in tournaments, right? That I know the game inside out? That I know the ins and outs of all the matchups? Maybe you could tell me all about it since you know so much about the game and are such a great poster. Hint: you are wrong about Sentinel and infinites.
While the balance isn't perfect, no fighting game is, and in reality it's somewhere between SSF4 and MK9. The point I was making is this sort of thought doesn't even go into WWE characters at all.
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I also found the netcode for MvC3 pretty terrible in the time I spent online. I never could get even the most basic player Search to return a single game. I could only ever get a game through the extremely terrible Lobbies.
I will admit the search is janky. The remedy is to set it to auto-match while in practice or arcade mode - it'll get you matches quick, one after another (whereas MK9 desyncs and shits itself all the time).
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Ok, let's make one thing clear about these "endings": they're one or two pieces of artwork with some text that advances to the next piece of artwork. That's hardly an "ending", especially considering what I've heard of Super Street Fighter 4's FMV endings. It's not like Capcom really went all out on them. Like so much of MvC3, Capcom put as little effort into them as they thought they could get away with.
It's much more than what WWE has, which was my point.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 24, 2011, 04:11:30 PM
Actually, Marvel vs. Capcom 3 does have infinite combos and not hard to find. As for balance, apparently you do not know as much as you think you do. Capcom even had to patch the game a month after release to fix some balance issues (one of the changes was Sentinel having his health reduced by 31%). And just because you play in tournaments doesn't mean you know the game inside and out, many tournaments are open to anyone who wants to play.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 24, 2011, 04:31:17 PM
Actually, Marvel vs. Capcom 3 does have infinite combos and not hard to find.
The Akuma and Captain America infinites were taken out. Captain America was considered a pretty low tier character even *with* his infinite. Infinite combos are literally a non-issue in this game, since it's relatively easy to 100% combo in this game without infinites, if there even are any left in the game. I can't remember if the Deadpool bolo loop lets you go further than like 12 reps or not.
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As for balance, apparently you do not know as much as you think you do. Capcom even had to patch the game a month after release to fix some balance issues (one of the changes was Sentinel having his health reduced by 31%).
Part of the reason why Sentinel is no longer considered top, but it wasn't really a super big change since it didn't change his ridiculous damage output. Also, I can't believe neither of you guys have brought up Wolverine yet, the actual best character right now.
Oh, and another thing: SF4, SSF4 and MK9 also had patches out the first month, MVC3 isn't special in this regard. And it's also not like the game was broken for Sentinel having 1.25 million health, he still had unfavorable matchups with a number of the other characters.
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And just because you play in tournaments doesn't mean you know the game inside and out, many tournaments are open to anyone who wants to play.
Maybe I should have mentioned that I've won most tournaments in my state, placed 2nd in the ones I didn't win, and that I have taken matches off of Viscant. Do you know who that is?
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: broodwars on July 24, 2011, 04:36:58 PM
The fact that there are "Tiers" at all should clue you in that the game's not balanced, which is alright by me if that's what Capcom was going for. If the game were truly balanced, every character would be used more or less equally. There would be no "low tier" or "top tier" characters.
Something else that pissed me off about the netcode, too, is that there doesn't seem to be any countermeasures in place to deal with Rage Quitters. My very first game online, I managed a come-from-behind victory against another player using an X-Factor. Just as I deal the finishing blow, the asshole yanks his internet connection. I get kicked out and not only do I not get a Win, but he didn't get a Loss, and the game didn't even register that the game had existed. That's just B.S.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 24, 2011, 04:56:22 PM
The fact that there are "Tiers" at all should clue you in that the game's not balanced, which is alright by me if that's what Capcom was going for. If the game were truly balanced, every character would be used more or less equally. There would be no "low tier" or "top tier" characters.
Uh, every single fighting game has tiers, and MVC3 is less harsh than a great deal of them. It is literally impossible to make a fighting game where every character is "perfectly" balanced without making them all the exact same character. I've played that game, and it blows. Pretty much every character in MVC3 has a fighting chance, which is more than you can say for a lot of other fighting games... anyway, the character matchups in MVC3 are reasonably tight.
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Something else that pissed me off about the netcode, too, is that there doesn't seem to be any countermeasures in place to deal with Rage Quitters. My very first game online, I managed a come-from-behind victory against another player using an X-Factor. Just as I deal the finishing blow, the asshole yanks his internet connection. I get kicked out and not only do I not get a Win, but he didn't get a Loss, and the game didn't even register that the game had existed. That's just B.S.
Uh, actually, it sinks their blue rank up bar really hard. You generally don't get ragequitters after fighter rank, because they stay there, even if their record is 1000-0.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: SixthAngel on July 24, 2011, 09:19:35 PM
I figure they've got a few turbos, supers, hypers, and a tournament edition to add before they finish updating. Super Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Hyper Turbo Tournament Edition. (DLC costumes sold seperately)
I hate these updates and wish they just did balancing and released a number 4 when they got enough new characters and stages ready.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: ShyGuy on July 25, 2011, 01:22:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5us9HKoMmhs
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 25, 2011, 03:29:03 AM
Somehow that video reminded me of this hatemail I got a while back in MVC3
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It was tuesday when I gave him the initial stern asswhoopin', and then he sends me a message...
HoggyStyle19: i hear ppl who play Sent are virgins can u confirm?
SuperTy DX: :>SENSORS INDICATE TARGET IS MAD_ :>QUERY: U MAD?_ (Y/N)
HoggyStyle19: N
SuperTy DX: :>DOES NOT COMPUTE_ :>USER ERROR_ :>ｱS8D7F3ｼﾞｬLHSKLFJﾊSLKFｼﾞｬXｸVｶI AM STILL PLUGGED IN_
HoggyStyle19: SENSORS INDICATE TARGET IS SCARED QUERY: U SCARED? [Y/N] (he sends me a match invite)
SuperTy DX (having since been invited to a L4D2 game): :>YES I AM SO TERRIFIED I AM PLAYING A DIFFERENT GAME_ :>WHY WAS I PROGRAMMED TO FEEL EMOTION :( _
That was that, until by sheer chance I run into him several more times on Saturday... he ragequits out of a match and delivers this gem:
HoggyStyle19: GOOD JOB YOU CAN JUMP BACKWARDS AND DO ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING TO WIN - YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SuperTy DX: :>SENSORS INDICATE YOU ARE BAD AT THIS GAME_ :>INITIATE LAUGHTER PROTOCOL_ :>HA_HA_HA_HA_HA_HA.EXE_
HoggyStyle19: complaint filed
SuperTy DX: :>YOU ARE BREAKING MY UNFEELING METAL HEART_
HoggyStyle19: keep it up with the bullshit all caps messages -going to call MS directly to do everything i can to get you banned
SuperTy DX: :>PRINT USER_TICKET.TXT :>dear microsoft i'm so mad that someone keeps beating me and replying to my messages!!! pls ban him ;_;_ :>ERROR LAUGH OVERFLOW_
HoggyStyle19: grow a pair of balls and try saying that to someones face. but u never will - u are a spineless worm
SuperTy DX: :>ERROR_ :>YOU CAN NOT BE A TOUGH GUY IN AN INTERNET VIDEO GAME_
HoggyStyle19: btw on phone with MS lady right now shes reading the harassing messages u send - keep going please
" I hope i meet you in real life some day so i can beat the **** out of you so bad you go vegetable "
holy ****....talk about rage....
COME AT ME BRO.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Stogi on July 27, 2011, 03:15:42 PM
You know what's fun about this game? The fact that I played 5 matches with a friend and none of us knew how to block. Also the seizures, those are awesome. I figured out that pressing two buttons induces one.
Title: Re: Another Capcom mistake? Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Post by: Ceric on July 27, 2011, 03:23:21 PM
