Author Topic: What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.  (Read 10785 times)

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Offline Ian Sane

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"There's a difference between making games for everybody, and making 'everybody games'."

No doubt.  Nintendo's strategy is that every game should be for everybody.  But that's not a good strategy.  It results in a very homogenous lineup.  If you don't like one Nintendo game odds are you aren't going to like any of them.  Though for us fans we end up liking almost everything for that same reason but variety is still needed.  Sony makes a console that's for everyone because there's such variety.  Nearly everyone can find their own niche on a Playstation.

Offline couchmonkey

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I think Nintendo offers a pretty wide variety.  Real variety can only come from third parties, anyway.  Nintendo could certainly inject a bit more variety into its own lineup, but to offer a large selection of varied RPGs like BigJim suggests, it has to have help, or else devote 30% of it's resources to developing RPGs.  I think third party support is the big key too, and I'd like to see Nintendo be very competitive in that area.  It's going to be especially important if Revolution is very different from the other consoles, because that may scare some devs and publishers away.

Other than third-party support, I think the company needs to be aggressive with marketing and avoid slip-ups like the Super Mario Sunshine campaign.  Oh yeah, and a great launch lineup would help too.
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Offline KDR_11k

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No doubt. Nintendo's strategy is that every game should be for everybody.

I can't think of anything to prove that claim, care to back that up?

Offline trip1eX

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Nintendo needs to add a few more 'kewl' titles to their lineup.  At the same time they need to get the major third party releases to appear on the Revolution without those titles being just an afterthought.   Also they need to get some third parties to fill in the holes in their lineup.  A racing sim.  A GTA-type game.  etc.   This is what one of Nintendo's execs said.  Hopefully they'll work on that.

Offline jasonditz

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Didn't EA provide racing sims? Wasn't True Crime pretty GTA-like (right down to the annoying celebrity voice-overs)?

RPGs are a more pressing issue. The Cube didn't get its first good original RPG titles stateside until last year. That's just not acceptable at all. They need to fashion some money hats for Namco (soon to be Namco-Bandai) because they're the only third party that seems both willing and able to make a decent RPG for a Nintendo console at this point.  

Offline Ian Sane

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"I can't think of anything to prove that claim, care to back that up?"

Most of Nintendo's games are family-friendly ie: they are suitable for everyone.  Plus they tend to make their games have very mass appeal.  You don't see too many really hardcore niche games from Nintendo.  Everything is designed to be a million seller.  Plus I've noticed they usually go with a medium to easy level of difficulty, again likely to appeal to everyone.  Many of their third party deals are also designed for mass appeal.  Virtually everything Nintendo makes is a blockbuster.

Offline jasonditz

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2005, 08:19:42 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Virtually everything Nintendo makes is a blockbuster.


You've got to be the only person on the planet who can say that as if it's a bad thing.

Seriously though, why does everyone keep equating "hardcore" with the M rating and assuming everything with an E is "mainstream"?

You don't get more "mainstream" than GTA. It gets advertised during prime time on major channels. It sells enormous numbers. Its every bit as mainstream as Madden, or Mario for that matter.

In fact, notwithstanding their preferred rating, everything you said about Nintendo could be said about Rockstar. Everything they make is either a blockbuster (GTA) or something they hoped would be a blockbuster and wound up sucking (virtually everything else). They're not targetting niche gamers either, nor do they make their games particularly difficult.

There's a reason for that. Games cost a lot of money to make now (a lot more than they used to). You can't profitably make a game that targets 5,000-10,000 potential customers anymore (at least not on a console).

I think the funniest thing about all this though is that when I think "hardcore niche game" the only Cube title that springs immediately to mind is Ikaruga. And that got a *gasp* E rating.  

Offline nemo_83

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2005, 08:40:55 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"There's a difference between making games for everybody, and making 'everybody games'."

No doubt.  Nintendo's strategy is that every game should be for everybody.  But that's not a good strategy.  It results in a very homogenous lineup.  If you don't like one Nintendo game odds are you aren't going to like any of them.  Though for us fans we end up liking almost everything for that same reason but variety is still needed.  Sony makes a console that's for everyone because there's such variety.  Nearly everyone can find their own niche on a Playstation.


You read my mind.  Nintendo needs to stop trying to make every game for everybody.  The best way to offer a game for everybody is to offer a variety of games.  Thus everybody can find a game they like.  I can't believe it took them between Goldeneye and RE4 to figure out that all kinds of games, including mature games, could be profitable on Nintendo systems.  Yet now they have gotten rid of SK; and now I have a reason to buy a 360.  More and more the REV is looking like the old games delivery machine, subtitled, "we don't have anything new left."  It is the ultimate system for game collectors; but what about game players?  

I don't want to see the future of Nintendo's software be melted down to games you only play with (toys).  Most games today only allow you to play the game (more linear and movie like).  I find the most popular games are games that allow you to do both like GTA, Halo, Goldeneye, and Zelda.  Those games are balanced in that you play the game, but you also can play with the game.  Those games reach across borders.  
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Offline 31 Flavas

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2005, 12:48:31 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane

They can however find one by getting some brand new stuff out of the most talented devs in the industry.
And Nintendo itself is below these "most talented devs" ... ? Or are we putting Nintendo on its own pedestal free from compairison.

Quote

I'm talking a full 3D RPG with gyms and catching wild Pokemon (none of this snagging junk) plus an online Pokemon league for training and battling.
Do you even play pokemon Ian? I'm just curious.
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Offline SgtShiversBen

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2005, 03:23:47 PM »
Pokemon wouldn't work on an online level.  With that, you'd get cheaters galore with Action Replay's help.  Not to mention to whole aspect of Pokemon was to be able to battle and trade.  Battling would be great, but the cheaters would flock there.  Trading wouldn't be great becuase you could start out the game, meet some person who'll give you every last POkemon for Wurmples and Caterpries.  

An online Pokemon is an illusion, something that can't be achieved realistically if they try to maintain the way that we play it on the Game Boys.  Find a way to solve those problems and it'll be bliss for Pokemaniacs everywhere.
"The next step is already being prepared for Revolution. [It's] not just a portable, not just a console -- it's exactly what we wanted in that it's the birth of a completely new platform." - Youichi Wada [Square Enix]

Offline Ian Sane

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"Trading wouldn't be great becuase you could start out the game, meet some person who'll give you every last POkemon for Wurmples and Caterpries."

Can't you just do this now?  When Ruby/Sapphie came out I played through the beginning multiple times so that due to Rattita trades my brother and I could start the game out with all three starters.  If you don't want to do that you don't have to.

"And Nintendo itself is below these 'most talented devs' ... ?"

I meant most talented third party devs.

Offline SgtShiversBen

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2005, 09:24:44 AM »
You can, just with it being online it'd be MUCH MUCH easier for everyone.  With me, no one I know play Pokemon (any color) so I'm stuck with having to fend for myself.  Whereas if it was online, I woudln't even have to try.

Also, the whole experience of seeing the person that you're trading/battling with is gone.  And that's just sad.
"The next step is already being prepared for Revolution. [It's] not just a portable, not just a console -- it's exactly what we wanted in that it's the birth of a completely new platform." - Youichi Wada [Square Enix]

Offline Arbok

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2005, 10:17:35 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: SgtShiversBen
Also, the whole experience of seeing the person that you're trading/battling with is gone.  And that's just sad.


So wait, you still can't trade face-to-face with someone? You are acting as if adding online play would force them to remove the current methods of trading from the games... Online play would be an addition, they wouldn't have to canabilze current features to add it.
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Offline jasonditz

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If Nintendo did do a MMO Pokemon they could always do a server-side inventory and insist that all trades be somehow balanced (i.e. you can trade your lvl 49 Charizard for a lvl 44-54 Blastoise, but not a lvl 3 Geodude).

Of course MMO probably implies per month fee, and Nintendo doesn't want to do anything like that...

I dunno, with bandwidth and storage and processing power prices coming down, and a Pokemon MMO game without monthly fees probably good for 5 million sales worldwide at a minimum, maybe its possible?

Offline Ian Sane

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"If Nintendo did do a MMO Pokemon"

Don't anyone assume my suggestion is an MMO.  I'm suggesting a kick ass single player RPG that has online multiplayer for battles and trading.  This would require no fees and no sh!tty MMO gameplay.  It's Gameboy Pokemon in 3D with the link cable features expanded to allow online play.

Offline PugGTI

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2005, 09:43:37 PM »
IMO they need to expand internally with a few more first-party developers, either by starting ground up or buying out other teams. This way they could concentrate on "new" games and genres as compared to games like Mario Party 12.5. Exclusivity and uniqueness are the key.
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Offline pudu

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2005, 09:56:58 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: PugGTI
IMO they need to expand internally with a few more first-party developers, either by starting ground up or buying out other teams. This way they could concentrate on "new" games and genres as compared to games like Mario Party 12.5. Exclusivity and uniqueness are the key.


I have to agree.  One of the best things about any Nintendo console is the AAA exclusive games they make for their own consoles.  While I love the sequels and the nostalgia and that comfortable feeling that comes along with them I also would like Nintendo to focus more on creating new and exciting game franchises.  They make a couple more great buyouts like they did with Retro, grab some good tallent to expand their current studios, and then focus on knocking everyones socks off with a brand new franchise using a brand new controler/interface and there is going to be something the non-Nintendo console owners are going to envy.  

Capitalizing on the one-two punch of excellent quality exclusive games AND the play experience only capable on the Revolution will draw in the masses.  Throw in some franchises for different age groups and even "non-gamers" like they are talking about and they might just have something here

Offline bmfrosty

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2005, 10:23:20 PM »
I'd love to see them get Q entertainment and Mizuguchi.  Absolutely great developer.

Offline Don'tHate742

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Nintendo needs to bring the next interface to the table.

The gap between you and the your virtual self is dewindling. As of now, controllers are needed. Still, those games that make the controller "transperant" and feel as if your in the game, are by far the most fun.

In SSB, an elite who wants to roll and dodge, doesn't think about pressing R and the direction....No...they just do it as if were a reflex (like walking is). If the controls aren't intuitive enough, then it takes far longer to reach that point (and ultimately, enough time to make most people lose interest). This is where Nintendo has to suceed. Making a controller that is very inuitive and that also allows for a degree of control not seen yet, is a key or essentially a bridge that makes gaming all mental.

When a game is all mental, your virtual self does exactly what you'd do in any given situation. Battling someone else who has reached that same level allows for a battle of wits to take place. Strategy is the basis of all games, so when your strategy succeeds it is very fulfilling.

I think Nintendo knows this, and it is the exact reason as to why they are down-playing graphics. Games like Contra, though very simple, were incredibly addictive. It was intuitive, and from the get go I was the person jumping, running, and shooting. I was put through hell where I attacked villians to save my own life, and because it was me who was playing, it felt very rewarding when I came out on top.

Nintendo's launch game is going to be intuitive heavy, but that doesn't mean it'll be simplistic. Contra wasn't simplistic in the time it was made. However, the same level of pick-up and play will be there.

Once they drop the controller bomb, I think we'll know exactly how games will incorperate both deep orginality and intuitive gameplay.
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Offline jasonditz

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RE:What needs to happen for the Revolution to take back the marketshare.
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2005, 11:33:25 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: PugGTI
IMO they need to expand internally with a few more first-party developers, either by starting ground up or buying out other teams. This way they could concentrate on "new" games and genres as compared to games like Mario Party 12.5. Exclusivity and uniqueness are the key.


Nintendo isn't making the Mario Party games anyhow, you can thank Hudson for those.