Topic: Wii U Virtual Console Detailed

[Plugabugz]

And in Europe it's going to be 50hz again. Pass.

[smallsharkbigbite]

I think what is most disappointing thing about this announcement is that in the era of steam (which always reworks it's emulators to work with new operating systems for free), this confirms that you need to pay money to continue to access your VC games on future Nintendo consoles.  Because it's very unlikely that the Wii U replacement has a Wii mode to transfer Wii saves.  Thus, if you don't pay up and transfer, the Wii U will be the last operating system you will get to experience your current VC games on.


It'll be interesting to see how Sony/Microsoft do their exchange.  My guess is not as harsh since they already allow you to use an account which can be accessed on multiple systems.

[lolmonade]

I will begrudgingly pay the additional fee to play virtual console games on the Wii U Gamepad. 
 
I don't like it as a consumer, but it doesn't surprise me there's an additional fee being tacked on to upgrade, considering work had to be done on nintendo's end to update these virtual console titles. 
 
Another thing that has to be kept in mind is that they've only announced this for NES & SNES games so far, so there's no telling when or even if the other systems (Especially the non-Nintendo ones) from Wii virtual console will get the same treatment, and i'd certainly expect a higher cost for Nintendo 64 games.

[smallsharkbigbite]

I get the whole Nintendo didn't promise anything argument, but the cost argument is a little sketchy. 


Nintendo had to emulate these games anyway for the Wii U to ensure that they were able to bring in new customers and have a service for the Wii U.  So while it did cost them money, it certainly didn't cost them anymore to make the emulator for people that already owned the games since they had to do it for people that don't own the games.  The kicker is they aren't charging the new audience the fee (because NES games are still $5, etc.).  They are only charging this to the existing customers that have supported this service since day one.   


It's little things like this why I stopped supporting the virtual console service after I bought 40+ VC titles on the Wii. 

[Adrock]

The kicker is they aren't charging the new audience the fee (because NES games are still $5, etc.).  They are only charging this to the existing customers that have supported this service since day one.

That's like getting mad because you bought a game on release day and a year later, a Game of the Year Edition comes out for the same price. Or that you bought a game that later received a price drop. No offense, but I'm not especially sympathetic. You got to play the games sooner. You paid what you felt was fair at the time and others did not. If those holdouts now feel the prices are fair, good for them. They got to save some dough. Don't act like you didn't get what you paid for at the time you paid for it. Nintendo didn't have to do this at all. They could have forced everyone to rebuy everything at full price. Backwards compatibility, hardware or software wise, is a perk, not the entire point of a new platform.

[Razorkid]

...Backwards compatibility, hardware or software wise, is a perk, not the entire point of a new platform.

This. I get that supporting backwards compatibility for a new system is desirable and something that fans of the system hope for when supporting the successor of their favorite gaming system.  But ultimately, it is not the reason you are buying the new system for. You can already enjoy the games you like on your current system and buying the new doesn't destroy the old.


 Backwards compatibility has always been a bone console makers threw to their user base to help them make the transfer to the new system faster and smoother with retail releases. With digital libraries across all  gaming platforms growing exponential each year, it's going to be really interesting to see how everyone handles it. For example, Sony hasn't had a problem transferring over licenses for PSone and PSP games to newer systems due to an account based system and a (I'm assuming) universal emulator that works across all those platforms.  But what are companies gonna do for their digital only libraries like XBLA, PSN, and WiiWare? I suspect that, regardless of account based systems, none of that stuff is gonna transfer over to the new systems. If they do, it's either gonna be behind a pay gate or your gonna have to dig a little (for WiiWare, very little) in order to access it.

[Ceric]

...Backwards compatibility, hardware or software wise, is a perk, not the entire point of a new platform.

This. I get that supporting backwards compatibility for a new system is desirable and something that fans of the system hope for when supporting the successor of their favorite gaming system.  But ultimately, it is not the reason you are buying the new system for.
...

Actually that is the only reason I became a PS3 owner.

[Razorkid]

Actually that is the only reason I became a PS3 owner.

Blu Ray player for me. The games weren't there for me at the time in 2007 when I got one, but I really wanted to watch HD movies on my new tv.

[NWR_insanolord]

How are they overcharging for Wii U VC games? They will cost the SAME as on Wii.

Hence Overcharging.

If you take inflation into account, VC games are actually cheaper than they were six years ago.

Ah the myths of inflation. That doesn't apply to digital content.

Maybe not directly, but definitely indirectly. The cost of tweaking and testing the game go up, as do server and bandwidth costs. They have pretty big margins on these, so they'll still be profitable, but not as much so.

[smallsharkbigbite]

[size=78%]That's like getting mad because you bought a game on release day and a year later, a Game of the Year Edition comes out for the same price.[/size]

Lol, not quite the same.  Some of these are 30 year old games.  I'm not sure I'm paying to get anything in advance or enhanced.

[size=78%]They could have forced everyone to rebuy everything at full price. [/size]

They can't force me to buy anything.  Which is why there's no point in quoting your whole response or trying to respond to anything.  As I said, they certainly don't owe me anything so no point yelling at me like I'm a teen asking for a free lunch everyday.  It's all about value in when a consumer is spending their money and the value here falls short to me. 


I used to be a heavy user (40+ VC games in the first 2 years of the VC) and then I realized that Nintendo hadn't released a comprehensive plan about being able to keep the games over time.  You can talk about backwards compatibility being a perk, but digital changes the game.  Steam goes out of your way to make you feel like you own the game and they are doing you a favor by keeping it on their servers so it'll always be there.  Nintendo makes me feel like I'm renting it and they'll charge me more to keep using it if they feel like it. 


I haven't purchased a VC game in about 5 years because I don't like their approach.  If you do, good for you spend away.  Since I stopped purchasing VC games, I've picked up a Genesis, N64, NES, and Dreamcast and most of the games that I've ever wanted to play.  I'm happy with my own VC plan.

[lolmonade]

[size=78%]That's like getting mad because you bought a game on release day and a year later, a Game of the Year Edition comes out for the same price.[/size]

Lol, not quite the same.  Some of these are 30 year old games.  I'm not sure I'm paying to get anything in advance or enhanced.

[size=78%]They could have forced everyone to rebuy everything at full price. [/size]

They can't force me to buy anything.  Which is why there's no point in quoting your whole response or trying to respond to anything.  As I said, they certainly don't owe me anything so no point yelling at me like I'm a teen asking for a free lunch everyday.  It's all about value in when a consumer is spending their money and the value here falls short to me. 

I used to be a heavy user (40+ VC games in the first 2 years of the VC) and then I realized that Nintendo hadn't released a comprehensive plan about being able to keep the games over time.  You can talk about backwards compatibility being a perk, but digital changes the game.  Steam goes out of your way to make you feel like you own the game and they are doing you a favor by keeping it on their servers so it'll always be there.  Nintendo makes me feel like I'm renting it and they'll charge me more to keep using it if they feel like it. 

I haven't purchased a VC game in about 5 years because I don't like their approach.  If you do, good for you spend away.  Since I stopped purchasing VC games, I've picked up a Genesis, N64, NES, and Dreamcast and most of the games that I've ever wanted to play.  I'm happy with my own VC plan.

I would argue there's no guarantee that any digital service (Virtual Console, PSN, Xbox Live, Steam) will always be there.  Just because Steam makes you feel secure doesn't mean it's more secure.  It just means they do a better job of making you feel you own the product.

I understand your personal reasons for not feeling the price to update your VC games is justified, but you still have just as much access to your VC games as you did before, and don't lose anything if you decide to stay as-is.  Everyone else can have the opportunity to pay a marginal fee to update product to have additional features.

[NWR_insanolord]

Steam is actually less secure than Nintendo's system, because it requires you to be connected to the server to play anything. If Steam goes away, all your games go with it. You have your Wii/3DS/Wii U games for as long as you have the system they're on.

[MegaByte]

Valve has said that if Steam ever shut down, they'd send out a final patch to remove the online validation.

[TJ Spyke]

It's still BS that they have it at all. If my Internet connection goes down, I should still be able to play any Steam games I bought.

[NWR_insanolord]

Valve has said that if Steam ever shut down, they'd send out a final patch to remove the online validation.

Which is easy to say now, but it doesn't guarantee that they will want to or be able to do that if and when it were to happen.

[BlackNMild2k1]

was offline mode disabled or something?

I haven't played a Steam game in a loooong while....

[Adrock]

Lol, not quite the same.

The principle is the same. A GOTY Edition includes content that someone who bought the original release would have to pay for separately. If you want the extras of the Wii U Virtual Console releases, you're going to have to pay for them. You want the prices for Wii U Virtual Console games to be adjusted to what you would have to pay if you upgraded. Well, that's not how that works. I understand what you want, but I disagree with it.

They can't force me to buy anything.  Which is why there's no point in quoting your whole response or trying to respond to anything.

Sigh. You nitpicked one line then took it completely out of context. Nintendo didn't have to offer the upgraded version to Wii owners. In fact, Nintendo didn't have to offer the system transfer at all. To clarify my comment you quoted, Nintendo could have forced every Wii Virtual Console customer to have to rebuy all of those games at full price if they wanted those games on their Wii U. Happy?

What I don't understand is that you say that Nintendo doesn't owe you anything, but you're still complaining about value. You bought those Virtual Console games on your own volition. Considering you bought over 40 of them, you must have thought they were a good value. I don't see how value is now suddenly in question. You can still play them on your Wii. If you performed the system transfer, you can still play them in Wii Mode. You don't need to upgrade. It sure was nice of Nintendo to give you the option though.

[n-phage]

was offline mode disabled or something?

I haven't played a Steam game in a loooong while....

I just checked. Its still there and still works.  Don't know why everyone thinks with Steam you have to have an Internet connection.  While I am sure some games require it Steam in general does not.

[Kytim89]

Having GBA games on the Wii U indicates to me that will get a unified system account between the Wii U and 3DS either this spring or some time before or after this year's E3 conference.

[smallsharkbigbite]

A GOTY Edition includes content that someone who bought the original release would have to pay for separately. If you want the extras of the Wii U Virtual Console releases, you're going to have to pay for them. You want the prices for Wii U Virtual Console games to be adjusted to what you would have to pay if you upgraded. Well, that's not how that works.

I know what a game of the year edition is.  To my knowledge there is no additional content to these "editions" if you want to call them that.  Additional content would include levels, characters, new res'd backgrounds etc.  Let's just spell out what is new.

Social Integration that all $.99 apps have. 
Off screen TV play. 

Clearly these things have value, just not enough to me to justify paying the $60+ that I'd have to pay to get all my games up and running in Wii U mode.  To me that is not a nominal amount for relatively few features that I don't really care about.  And that is exactly how it does work.  I don't purchase things everyday from companies I don't feel provide enough value for their products.  Some of them stay in business so they must convince some consumers to purchase their products and those customers found value in them.  Sincerely, if you think there is enough value and want to upgrade go ahead.  I'm not trying to convince you not to, conversely I doubt you'll convince me to upgrade all my titles. 

Sigh. You nitpicked one line then took it completely out of context. Nintendo didn't have to offer the upgraded version to Wii owners. In fact, Nintendo didn't have to offer the system transfer at all.

See, I don't think I'm taking you out of context at all.  Your first post came off like I should thank my lucky stars that Nintendo is giving me options.  Well if I believe this is so poorly implemented that I don't intend to use it, why would I care that the option is available at all? 

What I don't understand is that you say that Nintendo doesn't owe you anything, but you're still complaining about value.

I buy stuff all the time that I regret purchasing later.  Some of the VC games I feel like I got my value out of and others I don't.  The problem is I never really felt like I got more than I paid for.  As a business owner, I like it when my customers feel ecstatic to do business with me because I'm providing strong value worth more to them than the money they pay me.  This leads to future business and loyalty. 

What makes Nintendo more money?  Micro transactions for anything that adds value or providing an excellent service and improving it over time.  The question is impossible to answer, but I left VC and I'm not coming back.  Had Nintendo offered this upgrade for free, I'd probably start purchasing VC again because I'd know it always have a home on a Nintendo console and they would throw in free upgrades from time to time.  As it stands, I'll probably never play the VC on another console since it's >99% likely that anything in Wii mode will not transfer to the next system.  To be fair though, I probably will buy the $0.30 games since I think that is too much value to pass up, but that is a special case. 

[NWR_insanolord]

Have you considered only rebuying some of your old games at the discounted price? You can buy the ones most important to you for a lot less than the cost of rebuying everything. If I weren't the hoarder I am there'd be a bunch of my old VC games that wouldn't be worth $1-2 to bring over.

[Shaymin]

Cost of what I have: $23.50
Cost of what I want to upgrade: $11.50

Cost of what I'll be able to upgrade: $2, maybe $3.50 (most of what I want to bring over is Square RPGs, and that'll be brought over shortly after hell freezes over).

[Adrock]

I know what a game of the year edition is.  To my knowledge there is no additional content to these "editions" if you want to call them that.  Additional content would include levels, characters, new res'd backgrounds etc.

A Game of the Year Edition typically includes most if not all of the DLC that was released for the game. That's a lot of additional content. So... no, it doesn't sound like you know what a Game of the Year edition is at all.

Sincerely, if you think there is enough value and want to upgrade go ahead.

As previously stated in this topic, I've never purchased any Virtual Console games. I'm only buying Super Metroid in May because it's 30 cents.

Your first post came off like I should thank my lucky stars that Nintendo is giving me options.

Not my intention. I was pointing out that it's silly to expect Nintendo to charge new Virtual Console customers the upgrade fee. However, you don't think you should have to pay the upgrade fee because Nintendo had to do the work anyway to bring the Virtual Console games to Wii U. Therefore, for anyone who wants the Wii U Virtual Console games, either nobody should pay the upgrade fee or everyone should. Am I getting that right? I think I am.

Look, I'm not trying to convince you to pay the upgrade fee. Pay it, don't pay it. I don't care what you do and I don't know where you got the idea that I do. I simply disagree that Wii owners shouldn't have to pay the upgrade fee. Of course, they should... if they want the extras, but they certainly don't have to because they can still enjoy their games without ever considering the extras at all.

That's why I brought up the GOTY edition analogy. The Wii U Virtual Console games are like the GOTY edition with the extras included. Wii Virtual Console customers can upgrade if they so choose, but they should have to pay for the extras. We obviously disagree on this which is fine. I was merely explaining why I disagree.

[Mop it up]

I know what a game of the year edition is.  To my knowledge there is no additional content to these "editions" if you want to call them that.  Additional content would include levels, characters, new res'd backgrounds etc.

A Game of the Year Edition typically includes most if not all of the DLC that was released for the game. That's a lot of additional content. So... no, it doesn't sound like you know what a Game of the Year edition is at all.

I think what smallsharkbigbite was trying to say is that there is no additional content to the VC games themselves, with the "editions" he referred to being the VC games. So they're not similar to GOTY editions because they don't have additional game content, just additional system features. It's basically like paying for backwards compatibility, like if Wii Mode cost money to activate.

I agree it's a little steep, however I expected something like this to happen, and it's one of the reasons I never bought VC games.