Author Topic: Official Sales Thread (Read 3144859 times)

smallsharkbigbite · « **Reply #9225 on:** April 18, 2014, 03:09:36 PM »

Quote from: nickmitch on April 18, 2014, 01:18:30 PM

Business is risk. Sometimes things take off, and some don't.

People that develop things that take off get rewarded and people that don't either get fired or fall into obscurity.

What are you arguing? That Nintendo is a victim that couldn't figure out the market? They have no responsibility in the Wii U shortcomings?

smallsharkbigbite · « **Reply #9226 on:** April 18, 2014, 03:16:56 PM »

Quote from: MagicCow64 on April 18, 2014, 01:42:51 PM

I also think it's wrong to discount the price point of the Wii as part of its phenom status. If the Wii had the same hardware level as the PS360 + motion controls, I have my doubts that it would have taken the world by storm to the extent that it did. I'm much more of the opinion that the big mistake with the Wii was leaving out the second gyro in the Wiimote.

The Wii was sold out at $250 for like 3 years. When sales tanked price cuts didn't drum up business. I don't think price was a big factor in the Wii success. But that wasn't really my point. The point was the lack of parity with competitors isolated Nintendo from third parties and turned off a portion of core gamers. Those two issues are the biggest things stopping Wii U success and will be the biggest issue in making future Nintendo consoles successful. Maybe $250 was the optimal profit point for the Wii (not really worth arguing at this point). But they sacrificed long term stability and profits by going after short term profits.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #9227 on:** April 19, 2014, 01:33:24 AM »

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite on April 18, 2014, 08:11:52 AM

The reality is people at Nintendo are paid to figure out the market and be smarter than us armchair quarterbacks.

So is Michael Pachter.

smallsharkbigbite · « **Reply #9228 on:** April 19, 2014, 08:26:11 AM »

Michael Pachter works for a financial firm and is paid to drum up interest in video game and get people to spend on investments. I thought it was long debunked that he's an analyst that projects the market. I'd say he's successful at drumming up video game interest even if he has to say a bunch of controversial things to get face time in the media. If Nintendo doesn't have someone better than him at projecting the market, then that just points to them making yet another key management mistake.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #9229 on:** April 19, 2014, 08:42:41 AM »

I think you overestimate how obvious it was that the Wii would be a success. E3 2006 probably drove it home, but by that point it was way too late to make major changes to the hardware. By the time they had it far along to actually show it to people and gauge reactions, it was far enough along that what you're suggesting was practically impossible. And honestly, I've got a feeling that if Nintendo could do it all again they'd keep the same hardware but raise the price.

smallsharkbigbite · « **Reply #9230 on:** April 19, 2014, 10:29:14 AM »

Okay, here's my problem. It doesn't really matter if the Wii sold 25M, 200M, 50M, whatever. Nintendo definitely should have known that by not giving a control scheme that developers were used to, or power that was comparable to others that they were going to hurt 3rd party relations. Now, maybe you are going to make a budget console and you think that you have to do what they did. You need to have a plan to work with third parties and bring their games to your system. Nintendo did not. That's a complete failure on management part to think that third parties are not important and it's leading to the failure of the Wii U. If they can't have foreseen that, then they are not good at their job.

Next, I think what people are trying to say with "how can you predict the market" is that it's hard to innovate. I'm not going to argue that it's hard to innovate. Look at one hit wonders in the music industry. They make hundreds of songs and only one catches mainstream. Even popular bands are lucky if 10% of their music makes the top 10 charts. So I believe this is also a failure of Nintendo. They've decided that they must reinvent the way people game every generation. The problem with that is they are going to fail more times than they succeed.

So how is it a failure? They should release a solid console with great third party support so if they can't reinvent the way people game, people still want to buy their system. PS4 is looking like it's going to dominate this gen. Is it innovative? Not in the traditional sense because it doesn't do anything particularly new. But it does take the previous gen and does everything better. Nintendo should have a console that as a baseline, does everything better than the previous gen (and this includes having good third party games). It's not that Sony is saying we can't change the way people game, they are working on a VR headset. Maybe it's too early for VR headsets to work financially, or maybe a different technology will supplant that technology. But they are doing things well and trying to improve gaming at the same time.

Tying yourself to innovation (and a very specific type of innovation in reinventing the way people game) is a management failure. It's unsustainable that every generation they can reinvent the way people game and drive the market. Successful innovation like the Wii is hugely profitable which is why they've tied themselves to this goal. The problem is failure is not profitable as they are seeing in the Wii U. They need a safety net when they aren't able to innovate. The lack of safety net is a management failure in my eyes.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #9231 on:** April 19, 2014, 11:03:20 AM »

Let me make it clear that my argument is over the situation with the original Wii. Looking back at how that succeeded Nintendo should've seen that trying to pull the same trick again wasn't likely to work. So many things had to fall just right to make the Wii what it was, and it was crazy to expect that to happen again.

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #9232 on:** April 19, 2014, 11:48:53 AM »

You do realize that the Wii U is coming off of the Wii which had **** for core 3rd party support regardless of selling over 100Million units right?

You don't just release a new system with "great 3rd party support". Nintendo can't force the 3rd parties to support the system. Now granted, Nintendo didn't do all they could to get every 3rd party on board, but they had a selection of important 3rd parties at launch, such as EA and even that didn't turn out well. If it had, lots of other 3rd parties would have fell in line.

And Nintendo broke the pattern with the Wii U.
It has usually been innovate then refine/expand.
NES -> SNES (side scrolling & controller -> mode 7 & more buttons)
N64 -> GC (3d Graphics, Analog control -> improved more detailed 3D, dual analog)
Wii -> .... (motion control, M+ -> Wii U)
Wii U -> ? ? (just above PS3 level graphics with same Wii controls and a Touchscreen controller)

They were supposed to refine motion control technology on the Wii U and greatly expand on online and account integration. Maybe add camera tracking and leap frog the PS3 era of graphics, instead we got a half baked concept with lots of potential but no ambition towards fully pushing the technology and all it promises.

smallsharkbigbite · « **Reply #9233 on:** April 19, 2014, 12:20:07 PM »

Quote from: NWR_insanolord on April 19, 2014, 11:03:20 AM

Let me make it clear that my argument is over the situation with the original Wii.

I accept that the Wii was a huge success. But in my mind, they made one brilliant decision (motion control), some good decisions, and a bunch of poor decisions on the Wii. Those poor decisions may not have affected the profitability of the Wii(because that one decision was so good), but they are leading to their demise on Wii U today. I don't accept that because they had one brilliant decision that they should get a pass for their subsequent poor decisions.

Quote

You do realize that the Wii U is coming off of the Wii which had **** for core 3rd party support regardless of selling over 100Million units right?

Yes, and the reasons they had no third party support on the Wii was mainly correctable and they chose not to address them. They've said their strategy is to sell alot and third parties will flock to them. The Wii is proof that that strategy doesn't work and is a failure and they still refuse to change that strategy. Without going through the whole third party debate again, I'll just highlight one item that would make a world of difference. Bringing in third parties initially and working with them on what you are doing and seeing if you can include them on development of the console (as far as items they may want to have on the console). Doesn't cost anything, just means you have to treat third parties as partners rather than piles of crap.

Quote

They were supposed to refine motion control technology on the Wii U and greatly expand on online and account integration. Maybe add camera tracking and leap frog the PS3 era of graphics, instead we got a half baked concept with lots of potential but no ambition towards fully pushing the technology and all it promises.

So it sounds like you aren't a fan of their management decisions? So you do agree with me then.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #9234 on:** April 19, 2014, 12:27:48 PM »

The Wii wasn't the cause of bad third party support. That goes back to restricting developers in the '80s and early '90s, then purposely making the N64 hard to developer and only involving a few companies early on. I'd argue the Wii had better third party support than any Nintendo console since the SNES. The Wii only hurt third party support to the extent that it shaped the approach for Wii U.

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #9235 on:** April 19, 2014, 12:44:36 PM »

I never argued anywhere that I was a fan of how they were managing their time and assets, I just don't agree with your reasoning supporting your argument.

I've actually been speaking out against the lack of realization of potential in the Wii U and the missed opportunities that Nintendo continually seem oblivious to since launch when it became apparent that this was a half baked product in concept and execution, even if it is still capable and functional for its primary purpose.

smallsharkbigbite · « **Reply #9236 on:** April 19, 2014, 01:39:32 PM »

Quote from: NWR_insanolord on April 19, 2014, 12:27:48 PM

The Wii wasn't the cause of bad third party support. That goes back to restricting developers in the '80s and early '90s, then purposely making the N64 hard to developer and only involving a few companies early on. I'd argue the Wii had better third party support than any Nintendo console since the SNES. The Wii only hurt third party support to the extent that it shaped the approach for Wii U.

I'm not saying Nintendo didn't have a long standing 3rd party problem. It just seemed to me like Nintendo, with the Wii, embraced not directly competing with Sony/Microsoft and embraced that they didn't need third parties making the problem exponentially worse. I loved the Gamecube and thought it had pretty good third party support including most multi-plat games. Most "major" third party games skipped the Wii. This was the first generation that I expected most of the top 10 in the NPD chart to not be on a Nintendo console. Before it seemed likely that it was going to be on a Nintendo console even if the Nintendo version didn't sell the best.

Quote

I never argued anywhere that I was a fan of how they were managing their time and assets, I just don't agree with your reasoning supporting your argument.

There are dozens of ways Nintendo is mismanaging their resources. We could have a debate of which way is more important to Nintendo's success (or current lack thereof) but that doesn't seem to be of much value for the board (plus it seems there has been other threads that have devolved to that).

nickmitch · « **Reply #9237 on:** April 19, 2014, 07:07:15 PM »

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite on April 18, 2014, 03:09:36 PM

What are you arguing?

This:

Quote from: NWR_insanolord on April 19, 2014, 08:42:41 AM

I think you overestimate how obvious it was that the Wii would be a success.

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #9238 on:** April 21, 2014, 04:25:41 PM »

Well, this is depressing. At this point in its lifecycle, the SEGA Dreamcast had sold about 10 million units.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #9239 on:** April 21, 2014, 04:27:27 PM »

Dreamcast was having an upswing in its final year right before they pulled the plug. It could have been a contender.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #9240 on:** April 21, 2014, 05:36:59 PM »

I wonder how they're counting that, because the Dreamcast came out like a year earlier in Japan than it did here. That'd have to skew the numbers a bit.

Mop it up · « **Reply #9241 on:** April 21, 2014, 07:53:34 PM »

Quote from: NWR_insanolord on April 21, 2014, 05:36:59 PM

I wonder how they're counting that, because the Dreamcast came out like a year earlier in Japan than it did here. That'd have to skew the numbers a bit.

The article states that the Japanese total sales of Dreamcast are 2.32 million, and with that country removed, the total for Dreamcast is 8.28 million.

Another point is that I'm pretty sure the number being quoted for the Wii U is the total as of December 31st, 2013. So that would be after 14 months, not 18 as the article claims.

Even with more accurate numbers, the Dreamcast is still ahead. But, it isn't as bad as it's being made out to be. Which is surprising, it's rare that a situation is misrepresented by the media.

Phil · « **Reply #9242 on:** April 21, 2014, 08:05:00 PM »

You and your sarcasm, Mop it up!

Ian Sane · « **Reply #9243 on:** April 22, 2014, 01:48:48 PM »

The Wii U is selling about as well as I figured the Wii would sell back in the day, because I just saw outdated hardware and a lame controller gimmick and figured the whole thing was doomed. I didn't see the potential in Wii Sports because I had never thought of the idea of a new audience latching onto it. I just saw a control scheme that was so restrictive that they couldn't let you control your movement in tennis or do actual fielding in baseball. You have to remember that in the PS2/GC/XB generation the idea of casual gamers wasn't really a thing, and if we used the term we meant people that play Madden. Videogames were played by children, teenagers and young adult males and I never thought someone my parents' age would buy a videogame system.

The Wii U demonstrates that the Wii was a fluke and Nintendo didn't really know what they're doing because when they made the Wii follow up they copied everything, warts and all. They don't know what worked and what didn't so they just copied the whole blueprint. Outdated hardware + gimmick controller + dumb name = $$$! Now did the Wii succeed because of those elements or was Wii Sports such a killer app that the Wii succeeded despite all those things going against it?

Nintendo doesn't know. Wii Sports was a once-in-a-lifetime fluke that unfortunately gave a company that was becoming more and more out-of-touch an undeserved feeling of confidence. It saved them from a catastrophe but they didn't know that so they went out and did the exact same strategy, that should have failed the first time, and this time there was no magical surprise killer app to save their butt.

Enner · « **Reply #9244 on:** April 23, 2014, 03:41:16 PM »

Japan numbers!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=806670

Top-seller: Yo-kai Watch - 34.690 / 754.910

Nintendo 3DS/3DS XL sales: 19.943 / 15.429.609

PlayStation Vita/Vita TV sales: 19.038 / 2.825.989

Wii U sales: 5.204 / 1.708.412

PlayStation 4 sales : 14.396 / 534.169

Media Create Sales: Week 16, 2014 (Apr 14 - Apr 20)

01./03. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {2013.07.11} (¥4.800) - 34.690 / 754.910
02./01. [PS3] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z: Jigoku-Hen <SLG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.10} (¥8.715) - 31.724 / 174.156
03./00. [PS4] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn <RPG> (Square Enix) {2014.04.14} - 31.326 / NEW
04./00. [3DS] Ace Attorney 123: Phoenix Wright Selection <ADV> (Capcom) {2014.04.17} - 26.925 / NEW
05./04. [3DS] Mario Party: Island Tour <ETC> (Nintendo) {2014.03.20} (¥4.800) - 18.848 / 304.835
06./02. [PSV] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z: Jigoku-Hen <SLG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.10} (¥8.715) - 17.755 / 145.991
07./00. [3DS] Wagamama Fashion Girls Mode: Yokubari Sengen! Tokimeki Up! <ETC> (Nintendo) {2014.04.17} - 12.315 / NEW
08./00. [PSP] Juzaengi: Engetsu Sangokuden 2 <

> (Idea Factory) {2014.04.17} - 8.499 / NEW
09./00. [3DS] Detective Conan Phantom Rhapsody <

> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.17} - 8.336 / NEW
10./08. [PS3] Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes <ADV> (Konami) {2014.03.20} (¥2.980) - 8.018 / 198.054
11./07. [PS3] Samurai Warriors 4 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2014.03.20} (¥7.560) - 6.553 / 212.619
12./05. [3DS] Crayon Shin-Chan: Arashi o Yobu Kasukabe Eiga Stars! <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.10} (¥5.119) - 6,357 / 22,766
13./13. [3DS] Kirby Triple Deluxe <ACT> (Nintendo) {2014.01.11} (¥4.800) - 6.218 / 553.578
14./15. [3DS] Pokemon X / Y # <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2013.10.12} (¥4.800) - 5.315 / 4.034.629
15./11. [PS3] J-Stars Victory Vs # <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.03.19} (¥7.980) - 4.691 169.109
16./28. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4 # <ACT> (Capcom) {2013.09.14} (¥5.990) - 4.409 / 3.260.421
17./12. [WIU] Just Dance Wii U <ACT> (Nintendo) {2014.04.03} (¥6.156) - 4.367 / 29.934
18./16. [3DS] Fossil Fighters: Infinite Gear <RPG> (Nintendo) {2014.02.27} (¥4.800) - 4.144 / 140.178
19./23. [3DS] Puzzle & Dragons Z <RPG> (GungHo Online Entertainment) {2013.12.12} (¥4.400) - 4.115 / 1.439.301
20./19. [PSV] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F 2nd <ACT> (Sega) {2014.03.27} (¥7.350) - 4.102 / 125.173

Top 20

3DS - 11
PS3 - 4
PSV - 2
PS4 - 1
WIU - 1
PSP - 1
360 - 0

Top 50

TBA

SOFTWARE
Code:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| ALL | 248.707 | 699.000 | 673.000 | 13.255.707 | 15.157.000 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
HARDWARE
Code:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 3DS # | 19.943 | 23.562 | 75.922 | 767.689 | 1.437.904 | 15.429.609 |
| PSV # | 19.038 | 25.298 | 15.011 | 470.632 | 384.510 | 2.825.989 |
| PS4 | 14.396 | 13.034 | | 534.169 | | 534.169 |
| PS3 | 6.468 | 7.305 | 13.915 | 222.720 | 348.675 | 9.932.394 |
| WIU | 5.204 | 5.512 | 8.798 | 182.982 | 260.525 | 1.708.412 |
| PSP # | 2.094 | 2.027 | 7.816 | 63.242 | 234.368 | 20.131.651 |
| 360 | 240 | 229 | 515 | 4.384 | 11.091 | 1.643.700 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| ALL | 67.383 | 76.967 | 131.890 | 2.245.818 | 2.707.818 | 52.205.924 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| PSVTV | 1.133 | 1.220 | | 30.150 | | 106.394 |
| PSV | 17,905 | 24.078 | 15.011 | 440.482 | 384.510 | 2.719.595 |
| 3DSLL | 14,023 | 17.291 | 57.089 | 533.589 | 904.787 | 5.959.475 |
| 3DS | 5,920 | 6.271 | 18.833 | 234.100 | 533.117 | 9.470.134 |
| PSP | 2,094 | 2.027 | 7.816 | 63.242 | 234.368 | 19.955.664 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yo-kai Watch continues to sell at a steady pace. The 3DS compilation of the first three Phoenix Wright games lands in the 4th spot. The new Girls Mode game (Style Savvy for NA, I think) debuts at the 7th spot.

azeke · « **Reply #9245 on:** April 30, 2014, 08:24:05 AM »

Wasn't going to get MK8, but this is tempting...

rlse9 · « **Reply #9246 on:** April 30, 2014, 09:25:02 AM »

Wow, that is a heck of a deal for anyone who got in on the K-Mart pre-order deal. And just in general it's a great deal, looks like Nintendo is trying to make a strong push to move some consoles this summer. Though the official site only mentions NSMB, Pikmin, Zelda, and Wii Party as potential free downloads. I've almost bit on Pikmin a couple times so I think it'll be the game I go for.

On the other hand, the Mario Kart Wii U bundle is not that great of a deal, $330 a 32GB system, the game, a Wiimote plus, and a red racing wheel...considering how many deals there have been on the system and how badly Nintendo needs to move systems, keeping the price at the $300 price point seems like it would have been smart.

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #9247 on:** April 30, 2014, 10:21:01 AM »

what are the 2 bottom right games?

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #9248 on:** April 30, 2014, 12:32:25 PM »

Wonderful 101 and Monster Hunter 3.

And they should just cut the price to $199, or $249 with all that Mario Kart stuff (except maybe for the WiiMote plus or something). I don't know if a $100 price cut would affect sales in anyway though, it would probably just piss off the install base...but there aren't that many of us.

ymeegod · « **Reply #9249 on:** April 30, 2014, 12:39:30 PM »

"Wow, that is a heck of a deal for anyone who got in on the K-Mart pre-order deal. '

That would be me--was planning on getting Pikmin 3 anyhow and now I get it for FREE--sweetness.

News:

Poll

Will Nintendo pull off another 30 for 30 in Japan sales this year and, if so, how many times?

Author Topic: Official Sales Thread (Read 3144859 times)