Topic: Mafia 69 Sonic '06: Endgame Thread.

[pokepal148]

(Wait for it.)

Dead: NickMitch (goon #3)

And now I have to get to work so I'll have to spruce this one up (and a few other things) tomorrow.

[Stratos]

Hooray!

[Silenced]

Think these games are more fun to run and spectate  than play.

[apdude]

Why is that?  I thought is was quite fun.  Though being mafia does make you more of a spectator than being a townie does. 

[Stratos]

Depends on the game sometimes. When you get full blown information wars between Khush, thatguy, and other crafty players with big personalities it can be a blast to watch it all play out as a host. Other times it is great to be in the thick of the action, especially if you have assembled a solid group of teammates.

I would disagree that mafia makes you more spectator. The greatest players manage to be quite active as mafia.

[Mop it up]

Think these games are more fun to run and spectate than play.

If it makes you feel any better, I thought you were townie which is why I didn't go after you.

Why is that?  I thought is was quite fun.  Though being mafia does make you more of a spectator than being a townie does.

I've gotta commend you mate, you played a good game, and it was nice to see you fighting until the end. Had it not been for the investigation that exposed you, I probably would not have suspected you until it was too late.

[apdude]

Yeah I thought we had it but once TopHat told me that You and Oohhboy and he were a team, I had to go all in on trying to convince Stratos which sounds like it almost worked.  What really screwed us was the tie vote.  If even one was taken out in that vote we would have won on Friday...  but can't complain too much as any of us could have changed our vote to make one of them have more but we didn't.  Though we should have an incase of tie rule set up before it started.  Great job townies, you got your ... stuff together just in time. 

Also how come the townie alliance was so small untill the very end.  Did we keep picking off those that were investigated?

[Mop it up]

Yeah, lolmonade, Dasmos, and Lucario were amongst those which were investigated.

I would say that tie was the pivotal moment that sent things against the Mafia. The investigator was actually oohhboy, so if any of you had taken him out when you had the chance, I don't think I or anyone could have stopped you guys. Insanolord was investigated after that to see why he didn't break the tie, so it ended up exposing him anyway.

A big congrats to oohhboy for holding things together, good job mate! I'm glad you got me on board when you did.

[Silenced]

I just never have as much fun when actually playing. Running it is usually more enjoyable to witness how things work, as opposed to playing where I never get anything right.


Voted for Khush because I thought too deep that Stogi and him were playing me, because I always think everyone tries to play me. That didn't go well.


So I kinda just gave up. But I'm definitely up for running more games, I always have ideas.

[apdude]

I would disagree that mafia makes you more spectator. The greatest players manage to be quite active as mafia.

I agree with you, but what I meant was you have all the knowledge of whats going on so you are spectating and trying to give subtile nudges to the herd to direct them the way you want them to go which is fun trying to strike that balance.

[oohhboy]

I was the detective. With how things worked out I effectively become the Town Mafia God Father but without the direct killing skill and later functioned as the doctor also with targeted voting. It was really good luck I found the doctor on day 0 as it allowed me to authenticate with Stogie which set the foundation for "Welcome to Team Town" allowing us/me to read in additional people without a fuss as I discovered them.

We might have won a bit earlier had the Mafia not kept killing off the townies I was recruiting. Casualty rates were exceeding 200% and survival measured in half a day in some cases. It was a massacre. The break through was when I finally found a Goon(Insanolord) while still holding on to enough votes to make that swing and surviving via tie. Suspicion of my role now thrown off me, Mop it up suggested Tofu be investigated for being quiet scoring us the Godfather making our first save. That tie was a real inflection point where it could have gone either way. Had I died the game would have been strongly in Mafia's favour.

With me still alive and the player count becoming low, the detective ability effectively became the kill ability as the team had enough votes to equal the Mafia in private. The game wasn't won yet though had Mop it up not suggested apdude to investigate. Once that happened it was already checkmate, but for completeness we played through to ensure it became public record. Every remaining townie was connected ensuring a win no matter what happened short of the whole team throwing the match.

I used proxies to cover my voting and insnaolords vendetta made for great cover. We were convinced TOPHATANT123 was Mafia given his penchant for killing townies and being very loud.

Mafia played a strong game initially wasting townies with little effort resulting in check several times only escaped via investigation. They played a good public game which made finding them very difficult had luck not gotten in the way and the townie private game went a little differently Mafia would have won.

Credit to the host Pokepal for running a responsive game giving me very timely information.

[nickmitch]

Probably should've been paying more attention to whether or not we were playing through the weekend.

[TOPHATANT123]

Great game everyone! I don't deny that I was very loud and misguidedly voted for fellow townies on many occasion, but somehow we all made it in the end with the thinnest of margins. Gotta commend Apdude for duping me, I was fooled hook line and sinker until I was initiated into team town.

[Wah]

Wow you guys did it!
I thought this was a mafia win in the bag for sure, still reckon there should have been a killer (it's sonic 0'6! the very game is a killer)

[that Baby guy]

I miss Calvin & Hobbesfia.

[Khushrenada]

I just never have as much fun when actually playing. Running it is usually more enjoyable to witness how things work, as opposed to playing where I never get anything right.


Voted for Khush because I thought too deep that Stogi and him were playing me, because I always think everyone tries to play me. That didn't go well.

And screwed over your only ally! Not great, Bob!


Curse you, apdude! You broke the curse and it was just two people away from completion. I'll get you next time TOPHATANT123 and oohhboy! There will be a reckoning!

How come no one wants to play with me? So disappointing. I wish I had been the suicide bomber. That would have made for a great surprise. When I checked in on Day 2, I was wanting to change the joke vote I'd made earlier for something real. I just wasn't sure yet who I wanted to commit it to. I was hoping there'd be some better discussion going on with a vote I could jump on to since I didn't want players or the mafia to think I was controlling the vote again since I wasn't. Instead, I find a big landslide vote going my way. It was the right time to launch such a vote since I didn't have the time to play or counteract it but I was rolling my eyes to myself at what I felt was such a dumb decision.

Since I didn't think I was going to survive the vote, I decided to just do what I could before being unceremoniously offed by laying out my quick current thoughts, right or wrong. Pokepal148 really needs to make a player list thread. Checking the sign-up thread for the list, he said there was 15 players but there's actually 16. I was working on faulty math and forgetting players. I tried to weed out half the players to at least hopefully narrow down a guilty party and try to get some townie trust going before they kept attacking one another and the mafia took an easy victory. It's the same reason I posted about the investigator being able to trust any townie reveal they get from their investigating to speed up the townie alliance. I wouldn't bring that up if I was mafia. I'd hope the investigator wasn't paying attention. (Plus, I just thought the investigator would checked my out by then and so was maybe holding back from distrust. A lot of times, investigators come for me early. Too good to investigate me but not to vote me out? My ego won't stand for this shabby treatment! )

After I made the list, I thought about who to cast my vote for. I didn't like Silenced quick betrayal of me and so was now unsure of him but not enough to start a bandwagon on him. Being on the "watch" list was good enough. Mop it up felt Stratos was ok but I wasn't sure yet and knew he was checking in constantly but seemed to be laying low. Dasmos I didn't trust since he was ready to jump on the Mop it up vote and then had been encouraging and questioning why people didn't just vote for. He seemed to be leading the vote but secretly and that felt mafia-ish to me. Insanolord I was leaning towards mafia because he hadn't tried to vote oohhboy yet and so I was getting suspicious that they were working together. However, he was also playing pretty much the same way he played last game when he was the investigator so he could have been townie.

Voting for oohhboy seemed like an interesting way to test things out. Would Insanolord jump on that vote or not? Plus, oohhboy's comment on Day 2 of, oh, he's dying again just felt like a mafia member eager to jump on the vote and ensure an early demise for me after not voting yesterday. I contemplated throwing out a vote for TofuFury who reminded me of previous mafia players with his roleplay and voting, specifically Decoyman, but I also realized I've played very few games with the man so I could be misreading him entirely and I'd hate to throw an innocent townie under the bus because of that. Fortunately, I stuck with voting for the investigator. You'll notice I didn't list ShyGuy because I actually kept forgetting he was playing even though he voted for me both days and I thought we had 15 players and I had accounted for them all.

[Khushrenada]

Early on, Stogi involved me in a pm group with oohhboy, Dasmos, apdude and ShyGuy. (I had to look up and see that ShyGuy was the other one involved. I forgot about that too. Why? I don't know.) I couldn't figure out why he did that and just felt a bit nervous that he was involving these other players but didn't say why even though he kept talking about being nervous that the mafia would hit him for being the doctor yet was telling a bunch of players about it. I felt like there was a chance he had involved a mafia member or two and as the game went on, I just communicated with Stogi also. Turns out, there was a mafia player involved and it was apdude. I congratulate apdude on his gameplay. He was the best mafia member in my book. I was really shocked to see him get voted out and revealed as mafia. He was one of the few people I thought was solidly townie. I wonder if my holding back from sharing with the group was part of my demise on day 2 but I thought Dasmos and oohhboy were starting to act shifty so I was on distrust mode with them.

Nickmitch I thought might have been innocent because he was gone for a couple days from the forums and I thought if he had a role, he'd have been checking in more regularly. I've seen him check out like that in past games when he was just a townie so I thought it might have been more similar behaviour from him.

Anyways, that was my game. Brought stevey in just to vote him out for my own little bit of fun, tried to partner with Stogi, the only townie I could truly trust, but got rejected and died while I was still trying to get more information and suss out who might be mafia and who was innocent based on the behaviour I saw. Really didn't get too far on that front before my end came. Til next game.

[TofuFury]

I contemplated throwing out a vote for TofuFury who reminded me of previous mafia players with his roleplay and voting, specifically Decoyman, but I also realized I've played very few games with the man so I could be misreading him entirely and I'd hate to throw an innocent townie under the bus because of that. Fortunately, I stuck with voting for the investigator. You'll notice I didn't list ShyGuy because I actually kept forgetting he was playing even though he voted for me both days and I thought we had 15 players and I had accounted for them all.

Honestly, I decided way before the game even happened that I was going to RP my character, so my role had no factor in it. Once I was dealt the Godfather role, I contemplated changing my mind, as Lucario did some RPing last game. I decided to stick with it and hope for the best. It didn't bite me until the very end.


In some ways I wish I had skipped this game, but that has nothing to do with any of the players, or my team. Everything I said in my defense was true. When I signed up for the game, I was jobless, and just as the game began I found out I had the job and had to do a lot of training for it on my own time. I couldn't devote building a social game because of it, so in that sense I feel like I let my team down on that end.


With all my voting, I tried to think like a townie, and vote for people who I felt were mafia from outside my knowledge. I wouldn't have voted for Khush, and kept the pressure on other players I felt were possible targets. On a side note, I'm glad that my posting in the day zero thread didn't lead to an early death for me. While I did post in the thread, it wasn't just because I had a role. I'm playing Safe Words as well, and I only posted because I was checking up on that game, not because I was mafia. If I was just mafia, I might've considered skipping day zero.


In the end, I'm happy with how I played my game, given my circumstances. Even with my new schedule, I made sure to vote every round and try to participate as much as possible. I didn't want to look like I was ever hiding, but I couldn't devote the time to throw blame on others. It wasn't my intent to look like I was trying to stay in the background, but I guess I was wrong about that.


It was fantastic to work with Insano, NickMitch, and especially apdude, who I have to give so much credit to. If we would've won, it would've been mostly on apdude's shoulders. You worked super hard, and I'm bummed we didn't get the victory for you.


And as for why I never went for Stogi, despite him announcing he was doctor in round zero, you can only vote with the information given to you. He was getting eyes on him with votes, so that meant it was one more person who would have attention rather than me. When I did put the hit on him, I was a wreck, because I was certain if he wasn't the doctor, then he had protection on him.


In the end, congrats townies, and good game everyone. And good job Pokepal on a well run game.

[Khushrenada]

And good job Pokepal on a well run game.

Yes, it's his best game yet! Because he set the bar so low from his previous two games.

[Khushrenada]

On a side note, I'm glad that my posting in the day zero thread didn't lead to an early death for me. While I did post in the thread, it wasn't just because I had a role. I'm playing Safe Words as well, and I only posted because I was checking up on that game, not because I was mafia. If I was just mafia, I might've considered skipping day zero.

Oh, that just reminded me....

So as Dasmos already alluded to, it seems like Pokepal chose to not send PM's to the townies without roles. But not only that, he also had an inconsequential day 0, meaning there would be a lack of PM conversations compared to the beginning of other games.

This points to those who participated in Day 0, especially early Day 0, as being the most likely to have a role. I came out and said I was the doctor. Taking me at my word that leaves four mafia and one investigator. This is a list of people who posted that day in order:

1.Silenced
2.Stratos
3.Khushrenada
4.NWR_insanolord
5.Mop_it_Up

That's five people. And it can't be a coincidence that I'm the 6th person to post.

7.Tophatant123
8.Lucario
9.Nickmitch
10.Tofufury

Posted later on that day as well.

So from this one clue, we can constrict our view of who's mafia down to a select few. This makes Silence the most likely in my book.

Your thoughts?

Let's see how that idea broke down:

1.Silenced - Townie
2.Stratos - Townie
3.Khushrenada - Townie
4.NWR_insanolord - Mafia
5.Mop_it_Up - Townie
6.Stogi - Doctor
7.Tophatant123 - Townie
8.Lucario - Townie
9.Nickmitch - Mafia
10.Tofufury - Mafia

So, despite not handing out townie messages, most of the first people to respond in the thread were townies after all. Stogi's role-players-noticing-the-game-thread-first theory was pretty much bogus like I argued about on the first day. Coincidence? Yes. Yes, it was. 

[TofuFury]

I'm glad it didn't lead to my early demise. I would've been frustrated getting offed for just honestly posting for fun. I never used that list when I was trying to figure out who the doctor and investigator were, because I'd imagine most people get PM notifications in their email and check there anyway.

[Stogi]

Well done guys, whooooooooo...we did it!

I'd just like to say that....really Khush? You knew that argument was bullshit. The only reason I called out Silenced with my bullshit theory, and he can attest to this, was to attract attention to myself as likely mafia in order to not be killed. It worked until Silenced refused to continue arguing with me, resulting in both our deaths.

I fucked up Day 0. I should have read my role and not assumed I could protect myself. So that early "Team Town" I was envisioning was really me sticking my neck out to be chopped off. Dasmos called me on it Day 3. Speaking of Dasmos, I pretty much protected him every day. I felt like he was a target. And the one day I didn't protect him, was the day I was away and he died. Sorry brother.

Mafia played a great game. They kept taking out our townie alliance leaving us with just two or three people max. Everytime we'd bring someone in, someone would die. Excellent sharp shooting. But in the end, they never realized Ooohboy was the investigator and that was key. Ooohboy is MVP in my book. He played a spectacular game.

Thanks for hosting, Poke.

[Wah]

Yeah it was a great game poke, other then no Killer!
Let's see if I can do better!

[pokepal148]

Alot of past Mafia games have seemingly overcomplicated the rules a bit with things like having multiple mafias running around at once or some allocation order nonsense which led me to want to make a more simple, bare bones type of game.

I'd say this worked out very well.

[Wah]

Sometimes simple is best.