Topic: Wii U the next Dreamcast?

[MorbidGod]

ZDNet has an article stating that the Wiii U is the next Dreamcast. I don't think it is -- I don't see graphics and technology moving at such a fast rate that Nintendo would be out gunned by PS4 and next Gen Xbox. What do u guys think?

[Adrock]

That is just nonsense and total click-bait. Sega fucked up for years and lost the confidence of all but the extreme Sega-faithful. Nintendo has been going strong, posting record profits AND has been gaining audiences. I really don't see the comparison at all.

Sony and Microsoft will undoubtedly release more powerful hardware but I think we're finally seeing graphics plateau like Nintendo suggested years ago, except it didn't happen in 2006. It's happening now.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Wii 2 will not be Dreamcast, it’ll be “the PlayStation 2 of next gen�

[Chozo Ghost]

Even if it is the next Dreamcast, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The Dreamcast wasn't far behind the PS2 in terms of power (if it even was behind it at all), and could have been a strong player in the 6th Generation if it had better software support. Also, Sega was in dire straits at the time and couldn't afford to back it the way it needed to be in order to succeed. Obviously, this won't be a problem for Nintendo with all the wads of money its printed over the last 7 years.

Nintendo has proven time and time again they can make a system profitable even with zero third party support. But that's not even going to be an issue this time, because apparently the 3rd party support is there. The Wii-U may be like the Dreamcast in terms of computing power relative to the competition, but one thing I'm certain it won't be is a commercial failure. It will differ from the Dreamcast in that respect at least.

It also needs to be said that the graphical wall has more or less already been hit this generation, so any difference in power at this point is going to be barely noticeable in terms of graphics. Even if the PS4 is 2 or 3 times as powerful, it still can't do much more with graphics. Once you've achieved photo realism there's not much more that can be improved on in that area.

[alegoicoe]

Nintendo has enough first party power to handle whatever comes at them, and am sure the wii u has enough power and tech to compete for at least four years, something the dreamcast lacked.

[Ceric]

You know MS Powered the Dreamcast.  I always thought the XBox series was really similar in controller design, etc.

[Caterkiller]

Seeing that demo of Zelda looking like some Pixar movie is all I need maybe for the rest of my life. When I saw Toy Story at 6 years old and then Toy Story 3 at 24 I never thought to myself, I wish the animation was so good the characters looked photo realistic. Art style are not, some CGI movies go for realistic features on their characters, that's fine but I am now totally content.

Any way PS1 beat N64, PS2 beat out GCN and XBOX, the Wii beat out(sales wise) the PS3 and 360. As far as I'm concerned if Nintendo keeps up great 3rd party(how can they not at this point?) by the time PS4 and 720 come out, what in the world could possibly stop them from being number 1 for the next (hopefully)6 or 7 years?

[Ceric]

Seeing that demo of Zelda looking like some Pixar movie is all I need maybe for the rest of my life. When I saw Toy Story at 6 years old and then Toy Story 3 at 24 I never thought to myself, I wish the animation was so good the characters looked photo realistic. Art style are not, some CGI movies go for realistic features on their characters, that's fine but I am now totally content.

Any way PS1 beat N64, PS2 beat out GCN and XBOX, the Wii beat out(sales wise) the PS3 and 360. As far as I'm concerned if Nintendo keeps up great 3rd party(how can they not at this point?) by the time PS4 and 720 come out, what in the world could possibly stop them from being number 1 for the next (hopefully)6 or 7 years?

I get depressed when I see the Toy Story movies.  Their themes are depressing.

[ThePerm]

What people should realize is that there is a graphical wall that has been hit since the last generation. Games got super amazing looking because they sold high-end consoles at a LOSS for 400-600 dollars. This over inflated the specs of today.

as youi can see my bullshit graphics chart, the leap between xbox and xbox 360 was so high that it would be impossible to make another leap like that and keep it affordable

[Chozo Ghost]

Your bullshit graphics chart is missing the 3DO, Jaguar, NeoGeo, etc. Would be cool to see how those things measure up. Other than that, I think your chart look pretty accurate and spot on. One thing I would change though, is lower the Genesis rating relative to that of the SNES because we all know the SNES had superior graphics. The N64 was also graphically superior to the PS1.

[ThePerm]

the genesis and the supernintendo had give and takes, somethings about the super nintendo were better and some things about the genesis were better, same with n64 and psx. Psx had pixelated ass textures, and Ni64 had blurry ass textures. I saw high polygon models on psx, but much better lighting on n64. Not to mention the tradeoff n64 had with having cartridges. Psx had jaggies and n64 had anti aliasing. The comparisions are pretty much apples and oranges like Xbox 360 and Ps3. On one hand ps3 should be technically superior, but xbox 360 is easier to make games for.

id rank jaguar just 0.2 points below saturn, and probably put 3do in the same place. Not sure where to put the panasonic cd-i. All the companies i put on there were companies with a good stand in the industry. Atari by Jagaur was a totally different company since it went out of business like 2ce since then. I had a Jaguar though, and it was pretty cool. I had Cybermorph. Raiden, Aliens Vs Predator, and NBA Hangtime; Of those Cybermorph was the only polygonal game.

[Snake-Arms]

I think it's hysterical that people are making this comparison.  As previously mentioned by other posters, Sega was in financial trouble when they released the DC, Ninty has no such issues.  But, aside from sales, the Wii U being Dreamcast like would be amazing as it was ahead of it's time and had great games.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Your Bullshit Graphics chart list PS Vita as having better graphics than both PS3 & Xbox360
That is some bullshit... it should be a half notch below or just below even at best.

[ShyGuy]

I like this chart. BlacknMild, can you post it on NeoGaf? I want to see the reactions.

[ThePerm]

yes you can



possibly less bullshity, possibly. or more?

[Chozo Ghost]

If you are going by chronological order, the Genesis came out a year or two before the SNES I think. Other than that, its looking pretty good the way you have it now.

[Mop it up]

The only thing I see now is that the Game Boy Color is the same spot as the NES, but it is actually a more capable system than the NES. Maybe not enough to represent the difference on this small chart, but it could produce better graphics than what was achievable on the NES.

[MorbidGod]

Do you think Nintendo is hiding their specs? It is obvious now that Nintendo and developers have had enough time to create visuals -- in fact THQ flat out said Nintendo told them not to show actual game Wii U footage, even though they had it. Reggie changed subject quickly when admitted the footage was shown was not from Wii U -- he tried to downplay it and move on. Whats the big deal? Even the box itself, mysteriously, is being downplayed. Traditionally -- even for the Wii -- they showed and was proud of it. So whats the big deal?

I think Nintendo on purpose leaks specs of the Wii U Controller, specs and possible names. The rumor that was released said the Wii U had four processors from IBM and a AMD Radeon HD 47XX -- meaning at least three generations newer then what is seen on Xbox 360 and PS3. Since the controller info was correct -- it did indeed have a 6 inch screen on the controller -- then the specs must be true as well, right? Wrong. What if Nintendo released fake specs with real info so Microsoft and Sony have no actual idea what the guts of the Wii U really has. This was, when Sony releases PS4 and MS release Xbox 720 that Nintendo might actually have better specs and still be able to keep up with the competition (spec wise). Because it is possible, btw, that Nintendo is using the IBM Watson CPU with 8 Core Processors. That is an incredibly powerful processor that I doubt MS and Sony could actually top. Maybe match, but not top.

In the end, I don't think Nintendo Wii U is the next Dreamcast. I think it's the next Xbox 360.

[leahsdad]

That is just nonsense and total click-bait

You know, I almost never hear the term "click-bait" but I think it applies more and more to the bullshit we see on websites, esp. gaming websites like IGN, and...well, maybe mostly IGN.  Maybe this is off-topic, but I usually view multiple gaming websites and IGN has just really been sickening me for the last few years.  But why is it that a lot of the "click-bait" that I see on gaming websites tends be negative on Nintendo?  I'm not saying this as a fanboy, I'm just sayin'.

What people should realize is that there is a graphical wall that has been hit since the last generation.

I totally agree.  If you look at graphical differences between generations, what's perceivable to the average human has been getting less and less dramatic.  Atari to NES, SNES to N64.  More than things like particle effects or dynamic lighting, HD resolution (especially on HD TV's) was the most noticeable change between last generation and this one.  But since there won't be a big resolution change between now and the next generation (except maybe now all games will go 60fps at 1080), I don't see things looking astoundingly better.  Hell, I'm typing this on a mid to high-end gaming PC, and when my brother comes over and watches me playing Black Ops, he says he can't tell the difference between this and his PS3 (though I can, let me tell ya).

[Oblivion]

Do you think Nintendo is hiding their specs? It is obvious now that Nintendo and developers have had enough time to create visuals -- in fact THQ flat out said Nintendo told them not to show actual game Wii U footage, even though they had it. Reggie changed subject quickly when admitted the footage was shown was not from Wii U -- he tried to downplay it and move on. Whats the big deal? Even the box itself, mysteriously, is being downplayed. Traditionally -- even for the Wii -- they showed and was proud of it. So whats the big deal?

I think Nintendo on purpose leaks specs of the Wii U Controller, specs and possible names. The rumor that was released said the Wii U had four processors from IBM and a AMD Radeon HD 47XX -- meaning at least three generations newer then what is seen on Xbox 360 and PS3. Since the controller info was correct -- it did indeed have a 6 inch screen on the controller -- then the specs must be true as well, right? Wrong. What if Nintendo released fake specs with real info so Microsoft and Sony have no actual idea what the guts of the Wii U really has. This was, when Sony releases PS4 and MS release Xbox 720 that Nintendo might actually have better specs and still be able to keep up with the competition (spec wise). Because it is possible, btw, that Nintendo is using the IBM Watson CPU with 8 Core Processors. That is an incredibly powerful processor that I doubt MS and Sony could actually top. Maybe match, but not top.

In the end, I don't think Nintendo Wii U is the next Dreamcast. I think it's the next Xbox 360.

Nintendo isn't some crazy mastermind company. No video game company would even attempt that.
 
It'd be damn cool though.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Do you think Nintendo is hiding their specs?  Whats the big deal? Even the box itself, mysteriously, is being downplayed. Traditionally -- even for the Wii -- So whats the big deal?

Or maybe it's because the specs aren't final as they are still tweaking the chips and feature sets. We know it's based off a Power7 and we know that it uses at least an AMD HD47XX. But Ubisoft (the dev that most likely leaked all this info in the first place) is still only working with a Dev Kit that I would assume is not really near final.

I think Nintendo on purpose leaks specs of the Wii U Controller, specs and possible names. The rumor that was released said the Wii U had four processors from IBM

Actually it was rumors to have a TriCore CPU

and a AMD Radeon HD 47XX -- meaning at least three generations newer then what is seen on Xbox 360 and PS3. Since the controller info was correct -- it did indeed have a 6 inch screen on the controller -- then the specs must be true as well, right? Wrong. What if Nintendo released fake specs with real info so Microsoft and Sony have no actual idea what the guts of the Wii U really has. This was, when Sony releases PS4 and MS release Xbox 720 that Nintendo might actually have better specs and still be able to keep up with the competition (spec wise). Because it is possible, btw, that Nintendo is using the IBM Watson CPU with 8 Core Processors. That is an incredibly powerful processor that I doubt MS and Sony could actually top. Maybe match, but not top.

In the end, I don't think Nintendo Wii U is the next Dreamcast. I think it's the next Xbox 360.

I seriously doubt Nintendo is using a full Power 7 chip as it is incredibly expensive and meant for servers. a Quadcore P7 downclocked to 3.4GHz possibly with 1 core disabled is what they were aiming for. I sincerely hope they reconsider for the sake of dual uScreen support though.
A more power CPU is gonna need a more powerful GPU to match. Nintendo likes to be highly efficient in their design so if they increased the power of the CPU that would likely mean good things for the GPU too.

Also I doubt Nintendo leaked any of this info as Ubisoft is the likely culprit and the original source of the leaks on 01net (They are both in France). Nintendo was hoping to surprise everyone at E3 with news of a new console, but someone always leaks. I would assume that they are quite upset that all the details from the dev kits were leaked.

[ThePerm]

not to mention all these companies have spies.

[SixthAngel]

Do you think Nintendo is hiding their specs?

I think they realize that specs really don't matter.  You have a small group of people on the internet who get in a tizzy over it, but the thing is only a small portion of that even understands the specs when they are released.  Everybody else goes by "How does it look?"

[Adrock]

I'm in the specs aren't final camp but they will be by year's end at the latest because Nintendo has to start manufacturing WiiU at some point and that begins a few months before launch. We know WiiU is at least as powerful as current HD consoles so preliminary dev kits only need to be that powerful for 3rd parties since they're straight porting over the first batch of games, besides some inevitable tablet controller additions.

I don't think Nintendo is hiding the specs, per se. They just don't have them and I would think someone would have leaked final specs if they were available. Nothing on WiiU is currently finalized, not even the controller.

[MorbidGod]

Nintendo isn't some crazy mastermind company. No video game company would even attempt that.
 
It'd be damn cool though.

 

Do you think Nintendo is hiding their specs?  Whats the big deal? Even the box itself, mysteriously, is being downplayed. Traditionally -- even for the Wii -- So whats the big deal?

Or maybe it's because the specs aren't final as they are still tweaking the chips and feature sets. We know it's based off a Power7 and we know that it uses at least an AMD HD47XX. But Ubisoft (the dev that most likely leaked all this info in the first place) is still only working with a Dev Kit that I would assume is not really near final.

I think Nintendo on purpose leaks specs of the Wii U Controller, specs and possible names. The rumor that was released said the Wii U had four processors from IBM

Actually it was rumors to have a TriCore CPU

and a AMD Radeon HD 47XX -- meaning at least three generations newer then what is seen on Xbox 360 and PS3. Since the controller info was correct -- it did indeed have a 6 inch screen on the controller -- then the specs must be true as well, right? Wrong. What if Nintendo released fake specs with real info so Microsoft and Sony have no actual idea what the guts of the Wii U really has. This was, when Sony releases PS4 and MS release Xbox 720 that Nintendo might actually have better specs and still be able to keep up with the competition (spec wise). Because it is possible, btw, that Nintendo is using the IBM Watson CPU with 8 Core Processors. That is an incredibly powerful processor that I doubt MS and Sony could actually top. Maybe match, but not top.

In the end, I don't think Nintendo Wii U is the next Dreamcast. I think it's the next Xbox 360.

I seriously doubt Nintendo is using a full Power 7 chip as it is incredibly expensive and meant for servers. a Quadcore P7 downclocked to 3.4GHz possibly with 1 core disabled is what they were aiming for. I sincerely hope they reconsider for the sake of dual uScreen support though.
A more power CPU is gonna need a more powerful GPU to match. Nintendo likes to be highly efficient in their design so if they increased the power of the CPU that would likely mean good things for the GPU too.

Also I doubt Nintendo leaked any of this info as Ubisoft is the likely culprit and the original source of the leaks on 01net (They are both in France). Nintendo was hoping to surprise everyone at E3 with news of a new console, but someone always leaks. I would assume that they are quite upset that all the details from the dev kits were leaked.

I could have sworn it was a four core. But at last, you are correct. Actually, now that you mention it, it does seem likely Ubisoft leaked the specs. Even with that said, I still think Nintendo is trying to make the most powerful specs possible and try to hide it from Sony/MS so it's harder for them to top it. All they can do is make the most powerful and affordable console they can, and hopefully it ends up around what Nintendo has made up. Even if ti doesn't, I am not convienced it would matter -- I doubt the graphics will be that much better. Heck, I doubt PS5 will have much improvement graphics wise over Wii U.

[Chozo Ghost]

One of the rumors BnM posted was that production will begin in October.

[Morari]

The next Dreamcast? If only!

The Dreamcast was far ahead of its time in respects to hardware and physical design if nothing else. It is still easily the best console ever produced, and has one of the most thoroughly enjoyable libraries to ever grace a living room television. On the other hand, the Wii U looks to be a sad gimmick thus far.

The Dreamcast failed for three (unfair) reasons: Lack of customer confidence in Sega after the fumbled Saturn lifespan. Hostile developers, like EA, outright refusing to support and compete on the platform. Sony FUD about the upcoming PS2.

[Chozo Ghost]

Lack of customer confidence in Sega after the fumbled Saturn lifespan.

I wouldn't consider that one unfair, because it is one that Sega brought on themselves with that whole 32X/Saturn fiasco. I think Sega learned their lesson and tried to right with the Dreamcast, but you can't blame consumers for lacking confidence after what happened just one generation prior.

[MorbidGod]

The next Dreamcast? If only!

The Dreamcast was far ahead of its time in respects to hardware and physical design if nothing else. It is still easily the best console ever produced, and has one of the most thoroughly enjoyable libraries to ever grace a living room television. On the other hand, the Wii U looks to be a sad gimmick thus far.

The Dreamcast failed for three (unfair) reasons: Lack of customer confidence in Sega after the fumbled Saturn lifespan. Hostile developers, like EA, outright refusing to support and compete on the platform. Sony FUD about the upcoming PS2.

I remember when people called the Wii a gimmick. It has now sold over 70 million and inspired Sony to make PS3 Move, and probably why MS made (or rather bought the technology) Kinect. That is a pretty successful gimmick. And now again, they release a new controller and people call it a gimmick. (or some). It's far more then just another gimmick, and has more use then the Wiimotes because whereas some games don't work well with a Wiimote, all games can use the U-Controller. Even if it's just for your items and you use the buttons alone, it's still can be used.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm pretty sure the Wii has sold over 80million BTW and will likely cross the 90million mark before the year is over.

[Chozo Ghost]

I wanted the Wii to beat the PS2, but without software support I don't see how that's going to happen.

[MorbidGod]

I'm pretty sure the Wii has sold over 80million BTW and will likely cross the 90million mark before the year is over.

It's quite possible, but I'd rather be lower then too high. And @ Chozo Ghost, if you include how many GCN's have sold it would be 50 million shy. SO who knows what will happen next year. (considering Wii and GCN is the same specs inside, you could count them together).

[Adrock]

That's not true. The Wii is 2 Gamecubes duct taped together. /old joke

[BlackNMild2k1]

So if you take the number of Wii sold (~84million) and multiply them times 2 (ripping off the duct tape) then add the number of stand alone GC's sold (~22 million) you have the total number of Gamecubes sold LTD

(84x2)+22= 190million Gamecubes have been sold LTD.

Let's see the PS2 beat that.
trollface.jpg

[MorbidGod]

That's not true. The Wii is 2 Gamecubes duct taped together. /old joke

HA. Priceless. 

[Chozo Ghost]

So if you take the number of Wii sold (~84million) and multiply them times 2 (ripping off the duct tape) then add the number of stand alone GC's sold (~22 million) you have the total number of Gamecubes sold LTD

(84x2)+22= 190million Gamecubes have been sold LTD.

Let's see the PS2 beat that.
trollface.jpg

What if you included the PS3 units which came with a PS2 chip?

[BlackNMild2k1]

PS2's sold ~145million & PS3 w/ PS2 BC = ~5-7million?

Let's be super duper generous and say it's ~25million PS3'S w/ BC

145 + 25 = 170million PS2's

[Morari]

I remember when people called the Wii a gimmick. It has now sold over 70 million and inspired Sony to make PS3 Move, and probably why MS made (or rather bought the technology) Kinect. That is a pretty successful gimmick. And now again, they release a new controller and people call it a gimmick. (or some). It's far more then just another gimmick, and has more use then the Wiimotes because whereas some games don't work well with a Wiimote, all games can use the U-Controller. Even if it's just for your items and you use the buttons alone, it's still can be used.

I remember when the Wii was being called a gimmick as well. I recall dismissing those claims because a handful of games at the time made great use of the motion controls. Over time however, those fears have been confirmed. The Wii's motion controls (and the newly minted motion controls for the 360 and PS3) are a gimmick, and not a very good one at that. I can count on my fingers the number of worthwhile games that absolutely require the use of the motion controls to be a viable experience. On the other hand, I can think of dozens of games that I preferred to plug my Wavebird into instead (Smash Bros and Mario Kart being the big ones) or that outright suffered from shoehorned waggle crap.

Were there fun games? Absolutely. Did the fun of some of those games depend entirely upon well done motion controls? Yep. That doesn't mean that an entire system should have been built around it though. If the 360 and the PS3 have done anything correctly with their late entries into the motion-market, it's that they keep it as an optional toy and don't force feed it down their customers' throats at the expense of time-tested, working alternatives.

The Wii-U will fail to impress in the exact same manner. It'll be awesome for some games (just like GBA-to-NGC connectivity was, just like the Dreamcast's VMUs were), but it won't bring enough value to the majority of games to really justify its existence. And with the way those controllers look, I have a really hard time believing that they'll be useful for much else than a hand cramp.

[ThePerm]

hey you only need to count 1 finger of worthwhilness

i think that the controls are not a gimmick, but were used like one. I think they were vastly underutilized.

[S-U-P-E-R]

I can only hope that the Wii U has as many good games as the Dreamcast did

[rad.i.kal]

if anything the wii shoulda been a dreamcast. It was not as powerful, had less and did less but some how it excelled!


wii u should be a ps2 like someone else said! It will excel and be a game console sought after by many for both family gamers and hardcore. I am excited

[ThePerm]

hmmmm, Dreamcast was great system that was destroyed in my opinion by rampant piracy. IDK it depends on how easy it is for WiiU to hack, and Nintendo has a good track record of being harder to hack.

[rad.i.kal]

wii is easy to hack, its all about finding the common key, once you have it, it is just bam bam bam easy. They found the dsi one but i guess nintnedo has made things more difficult this time.


3ds is basically impossible if you want all the updates and the fun because wireless has to be on.


guessing wii u will have this, or have something very similar.

[Mannypon]

I think one of the rumored spec sheets blscknmild posted had listed a 4 core but most rumors state a 3.  I guess we might not know till before or at release when someone takes one apart.

[ThePerm]

actually Wii u is probably going to be hard as hell to hack....so if the games are 20gb they wont fit on dvds, and they're not blue rays so...people need and hd-dvd burner? Which is virtually non existant nowadays?

[NWR_insanolord]

I would be shocked if the discs Nintendo's using aren't the Bluray equivalent of the discs they used on Wii, which were, for all intents and purposes, DVDs.

[Stogi]

Ripping games could be done on the UuuuWiii itself, since usb HDD's are allowed. That's how it's done on the PS3.

[ThePerm]

well you would have to put linux on wii u and then from there yeah just copy ****

[MorbidGod]

I think one of the rumored spec sheets blscknmild posted had listed a 4 core but most rumors state a 3.  I guess we might not know till before or at release when someone takes one apart.

The IBM Watson CPU, which is the cpu Nintendo is using, is only made in 4, 6 and 8 variants. Which means IBM can create a special line just for Nintendo, or go the cheaper route and use the existing lines when making Nintendo processors.I think Nintendo would rather save money wouldn't you?

[Morari]

IDK it depends on how easy it is for WiiU to hack, and Nintendo has a good track record of being harder to hack.

Uh, no? The Wii is probably one of the easiest to consoles to hack of all time. Softmodding can be done by a child to enable rewritable disc or USB support. Furthermore, the even more foolproof modchips don't even require soldering on the Wii!

Nintendo has a track record of "security" because no one cared enough about the GameCube to put forth any serious effort. Everything before that was cartridge based, which was too expensive to reliably duplicate at the time. Of course nowadays, flash memory is a cheap and easy alternative to even that.

If Nintendo uses some sort of proprietary disc, hackers will just use USB loaders instead. Most backup utilities are already heading that way. It's far easier to have a small external harddrive full of ISOs than it is to keep a binder full of backed up discs.

[ThePerm]

err, i had to retype that post and the second time i left out the Gamecube nod. Nintendo has a better track record than Sony or Microsoft in this area, i never meant to imply Wii was hard to hack. Either way hackers are gonna hack.