Topic: I do want the Wii U to fail

[Chozo Ghost]

Just an FYI to everyone. 

[ShyGuy]

I'm afraid you are going to be GRAVELY disappointed.

October is Spooky Pun Month

[Chozo Ghost]

Someone did change my title a day or two ago, but now its back. Why beat a dead horse? I have it in my signature and I even made this thread about it. Everyone knows I said it. I don't deny it. Why can't we just move on? You know people say things in the heat of the moment they mean at that time but they might not always mean. It doesn't need to be there as a permanent reminder. All it does is make me look like a troll, and I don't want that.

It isn't even in the context I said it. I said more than this, but someone (Uncle Bob?) snips only this out and removes it of all context. That ain't right. If you're going to quote something someone said, quote the whole thing, not just a piece of it that makes them look bad.

Its in my signature too, so what do you want from me? What is your goal?

[UncleBob]

Was it something said "in the heat of the moment"?

Because you constantly ride the "Nintendo is stupid, I hope they fail" train to the point where it's obsessively annoying.

This is good, because if the Wii U fails then it won't be a death blow for the company. That said, I do want the Wii U to fail because it would be a wake up call and it would force them to reconsider their focus and start catering to their core gamers. They have enough money in the bank that the Wii U could be a total disaster, but the company would still survive, and my hope is Iwata and Reggie would face a vote of no confidence and replaced by someone who will steer the company back on course.

The core statement you made was "I want the Wii U to fail because it isn't what I want."  You don't care about Nintendo, the folks who work there, the gamers who are excited for the system, nothing.  Your sole desire is that the Wii U fails so that you get what you want, everyone else be damned.

How's that for context?

[lolmonade]

Like the applaud/smite system for this website, you're the only one that cares, which is the reason why you're the butt of jokes for it.

[Tamazoid]

Don't we all? 

[MrPhishfood]

I was beginning to wonder what these points were. I knew there was a connection between negative points and the angriest users.


Who actually gives out these points?

[Ceric]

I was beginning to wonder what these points were. I knew there was a connection between negative points and the angriest users.


Who actually gives out these points?

Older Users.  I think its 3000 post or something like that.

[ShyGuy]

Isn't UncleBob 'Spooktacular' at falsifying user's statements?

[ThePerm]

this was my wii u mockup



this is what Sony ought to do.

[Retro Deckades]

You know people say things in the heat of the moment they mean at that time but they might not always mean.

The beautiful thing about the internet is that people need not post their knee-jerk reactions. Unlike a face-to-face argument, we can allow the "heat of the moment" to pass and respond after we fully articulate our thoughts.


Of course, that's not always the case, but people often seem to go to extremes on internet forums, and if they don't mean to, it's often interpreted in such a manner. If everyone remembers this, we all might get along just fine. 

[MrPhishfood]

The Internet is a little more sinister these days.

Some users are even professional trolls. People paid by companies to hype products and perform damage control when things go wrong.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/EA-Viral-Marketing-Exposed-Big-Buyout-Horizon-40885.html

[Pixelated Pixies]

I'm in an odd position whereby I've owned almost every Nintendo console and handheld (excepting the GBC and Virtual Boy) and I currently only own Nintendo systems (Wii & 3DS), yet I'm not a fanboy. Given my history with Nintendo I might be classified by some as a Nintendo fan; yet, my appreciation of Nintendo games and previous Nintendo systems has not impeded me from stepping back and assessing things objectively, and for me the Wii U is simply not appealing.
 
I think alot of the negative marks you see to the left of this post are probably the result of people who disagree with or feel uncomfortable about my opinions (which is fine), or perhaps even some people might find their excitement being sapped by my arguments. People don't seem to like it when your arguments threaten their enjoyment of something.
 
As an enthusiast of video games, however, I feel a natural urge to discuss these things. All I can do is give my thoughts and speak truthfully. If people disagree with my opinions on the Wii U so be it.
 
Personally, I agree with Chozo Ghost to a certain extent. Nintendo as a company has always been conservative, and slow to change. Nintendo only seems to recognise the rest of the industry when their back is against the wall. Embracing online, switching to a disc format, doing more to engage third parties, these were things that Nintendo ignored until it was too late and the industry had moved on and left them behind.
 
It's not so much that I want the Wii U to fail, but I do feel that Nintendo is not currently meeting the needs and expectations of a large section of core gamers. I'm actually a little worried that the company might be sleep walking into a third place position in this next generation (or perhaps worse). If it takes the Wii U to falter in order to prompt Nintendo to stop d***ing about with tablet controllers, motion controls and 3D, and for them to make something that is more console than toy, then perhaps that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[TJ Spyke]

I was beginning to wonder what these points were. I knew there was a connection between negative points and the angriest users.


Who actually gives out these points?

Older Users.  I think its 3000 post or something like that.

You get the ability to applaud/smite at 1,000 posts. Some people smite regardless of the quality of the post (which is why mine is so high).

[MrPhishfood]

I've always felt that consoles were just an extension of toys and Nintendo as a toy manufacturer. All of Nintendo's game ideas are centered around just having fun. Sure all games are supposed to be fun, but Nintendo seems to define it better than anyone and on a consistent basis.

There's this kid I know and he asked if I wanted to do some multiplayer with him online on PS3. I told him I can only play on 360 and he was disappointed. The reason being his dad has a 360 but the control pads are too big for 11 year old hands. While the online services of 360 and PS3 are okay for us who are technologically inclined, I don't think this is true for children.

So yeah Nintendo didn't have a good online infrastructure for the Wii and I think that's because they couldn't think of a way to make it safe and enjoyable for Children. Microsoft and Sony didn't really have that problem because they market their stuff to teens and adults.

If you were you ask me what defines a games console as a games console? I would tell you it does a great job at being a toy.

I'm not really certain what the needs and expectations of core gamers are but browsing around the web I would think its something like:

• significantly better graphics than previous generation
• standard dual analogue control pad
• online + social infrastructure

I get that these core gamers want to be treated like adults but that's expecting too much from Nintendo because adults aren't the only audience they cater to. I think while children exist in this world and still like to have fun, Nintendo will never die out.

[Chozo Ghost]

Was it something said "in the heat of the moment"?

Because you constantly ride the "Nintendo is stupid, I hope they fail" train to the point where it's obsessively annoying.

This is good, because if the Wii U fails then it won't be a death blow for the company. That said, I do want the Wii U to fail because it would be a wake up call and it would force them to reconsider their focus and start catering to their core gamers. They have enough money in the bank that the Wii U could be a total disaster, but the company would still survive, and my hope is Iwata and Reggie would face a vote of no confidence and replaced by someone who will steer the company back on course.

The core statement you made was "I want the Wii U to fail because it isn't what I want."  You don't care about Nintendo, the folks who work there, the gamers who are excited for the system, nothing.  Your sole desire is that the Wii U fails so that you get what you want, everyone else be damned.

How's that for context?

Not true. I said I want the Wii U to fail, which was in the context of the dismal E3 showing. Since then a lot more games have been announced and my position has softened.

Also, I only said I want the Wii U to fail. I never said I wanted Nintendo to fail. The reason I said I wanted the Wii U to fail was so Nintendo could be like they used to be. The NES and SNES were the consoles I grew up with and to this day they remain my favorites of all time. So what do you have to say about that?

I also actually liked the Gamecube even though most people didn't.  It was only with the Wii that I was actually disappointed and it made me jump ship to another console. I don't want the Wii U to be a repeat of that. That is why I said I wanted it to fail. It has "Wii" in the name, and that name has a bad taste in my mouth.

But to put it simply I hate the brand, but not the company behind it. BTW, I also have a DSi and you don't hear me hating on that. The only problem I have with the 3DS is it doesn't have dual analogs integrated into it by default. I'm still holding out hope this is going to happen in a revision, but even if it doesn't I probably will still pick up a 3DS at some point.

Again, its only the Wii I have a problem with. And that's because of the casual waggleware and little else available. The other Nintendo systems weren't like that. The N64 and Gamecube had droughts, but at least when there were games they were awesome.

[Adrock]

If it takes the Wii U to falter in order to prompt Nintendo to stop d***ing about with tablet controllers, motion controls and 3D, and for them to make something that is more console than toy, then perhaps that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Except that's most likely not what would happen. Nintendo doesn't play follow-the-leader because they know that means they're never the leader. They would just try a different strategy. In some ways, that's a much better way. The idea is to leapfrog the competition rather than catch-up to them. Sometimes that works; sometimes that doesn't. A few people here like to attach themselves to all the times that it doesn't while ignoring all the times it does.

I wish Nintendo would try to balance that out more. Microsoft (and to a lesser extent Sony) have had decent ideas, namely in the realm of online gaming. If they at least acknowledged some of those ideas, they would be in a better position to anticipate the curve. I don't think Wii U (or any Nintendo hardware) has to fail for this to happen. In fact, I think we're kind of seeing it with things like the Wii U Pro Controller's shameless resemblance to the 360 controller. People generally like the controller so that's not a bad thing to takes cues from (which is itself an evolution of Nintendo's own SNES controller). It's definitely important for Nintendo to add their own flavor to things. That's what makes them Nintendo.

[Chozo Ghost]

The beautiful thing about the internet is that people need not post their knee-jerk reactions. Unlike a face-to-face argument, we can allow the "heat of the moment" to pass and respond after we fully articulate our thoughts.

Everyone was disappointed over E3 and that was the time when I said that. When I said it I meant it. Since then a lot more has come to light and my position has softened, even though I still have some concerns about a few things. Knowing what I know now I probably wouldn't say what I said back then. But back then? Sure. It was a different time and I meant it 100% then. If Nintendo hadn't held back so much from E3 people wouldn't have been as disappointed by it as they were. That's not my fault, and I'm not the only one who felt that way at the time.

[NWR_insanolord]

Nintendo doesn't play follow-the-leader because they know that means they're never the leader. They would just try a different strategy.

This is exactly true. Really, if you want Nintendo to play the same game as Sony and Microsoft, the Wii U is probably as close as they're going to get. Standard controller (plus screen) and what I think is going to be closer in terms of hardware power than most people expect.

[Mop it up]

Nintendo doesn't play follow-the-leader because they know that means they're never the leader.

Isn't this what got Sony great success?

[NWR_insanolord]

Sony's success was more of a result of Nintendo's business practices and the way Nintendo designed the N64 than of anything Sony did themselves. As far as I know, Sony and Microsoft aren't currently hated by third parties to anywhere close to the extent Nintendo was in those days.

[Adrock]

Isn't this what got Sony great success?

Only if you ignore the fact that Nintendo and Sega both made some obscenely boneheaded decisions at roughly the same time. Sony were successful by default. They just had to be not Nintendo/Sega. If you think you can count on that, sure, that's an excellent strategy.

EDIT: Damn you, insano. 3 minutes...

[Mop it up]

Sony still followed (copied) the leader and then became the leader, so the strategy can work.

Thinking about it, has the market leader ever changed without the current leader messing themselves up? Nintendo became the leader when Atari killed the market with saturation, Sony became the leader by doing things right when both competitors did things wrong, and then Nintendo became the leader after Sony priced themselves out of the market with the PS3. So it would seem the strategy for becoming the leader is to wait until the current leader does something stupid.

[Pixelated Pixies]

@MrPhishfood

I don't disagree. Nintendo are totally hitting that market for children and with the Wii were able to attract alot of people who don't normally buy games. That's kind of the point I was making though, Nintendo in recent years has not been as good at attracting what might be called 'core gamers'. It's not a term I like using but there is definitely a difference between people like myself who play more complex games and who also play them more regularly, and those people for whom video games are a novelty.
 
I personally don't think it's too much to expect Nintendo to design a console which redresses the balance between the more casual friendly approach they took with the Wii and something which would be more appealing to 'core gamers'. There's a reason why the Wii plummeted in popularity in the last few years. Casual gamers bought a handful of games, got bored and moved on to 'Draw Something'. There were people like me who stuck around and continued to buy First and Third Party games, WiiWare games, and Virtual Console games, but that insane band of people wasn't enough to support the system. Most core gamers simply went to Sony and Microsoft.
 
@Adrock
 
I'm not smart enough to predict what might happen to Nintendo in the hypothetical scenario that the Wii U fails, lol. All I meant was that if it took something on the scale of a bodged system launch to turn the boat around then from a purely selfish perspective I'd be ok with that. I agree though, in all likelyhood Nintendo would not take the lessons I might hope they would from such a failure. Nintendo is a weird company and I don't think I'll ever fully understand their decisions.
 
I agree that Nintendo's huge success has been due in large part to their ability to walk their own path, but I also feel that their intransigence has been their biggest weakness. I do wish they would take what has been proven to work and which is popular and incorporate it into their own designs. Instead, however, they continue to fall down their own little rabbit hole.

Having one circle pad on the 3DS only to release not one but two versions of the circle pad pro, not having analogue sticks on the Wii U gamepad, having a touch screen on the gamepad which is far less functional than those screens which most people are now familar with, having a Wii U pro controller which does not have force feedback, offering only 32 GB of internal storage, these are all things which Nintendo has either not acknowledged as being issues or has chosen to ignore for cost purposes. You can also see this complacency in some of their games. Not having leaderboards in NSMB 2, not having online in Pikmin 3, their decision to release year old games digitally on eShop for full retail price. These decisions just seem bizarre to me.
 
True, Nintendo's bizarreness has helped to distinguish them in the market, but having gone through all this before as a Wii owner, I'm feeling a little weary of their wacky decision making. Ultimately, I just want something that isn't a chore. I don't want friend codes, I don't want poor online services, I don't want 8 and 9 month gaps in the release schedule, I don't want to have to use 3 different controllers, or motion controls, or tablet controllers. I want my games to be complex, engaging, challenging and, yes, I would like for the graphical capability of the system to not be a hinderance to the imaginations of the game designers. I want exactly what you've stated. I want Nintendo to gain a certain level of equality with their competitors rather than continuing to play catch up.

What I don't want is a Wii U, lol.

[NWR_insanolord]

Why are you so against the tablet controller? It does literally everything any other controller does, and then some.