Post by: capamerica on April 02, 2007, 03:51:59 PM
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GamePro has a nice 'lil interview with Shiggy regarding his thoughts on the Wii so far. Here are some choice snippets:
"I prepared myself for the possibility that Wii might face an uphill battle in America, so to see that it has become this big of a hit is something t I wasn't particularly expecting... There are other enhancements to the Wii interface and developments being planned that are going to really make games for hardcore players a lot more fun and interesting... A lot of people have the misunderstanding that Nintendo is not interested in network gaming."
Even Shiggy had his doubts, new stuff for hardcores is on its way, and maybe, just maybe, Nintendo is really serious about network play despite all this friend code madness. Woot!
-infendo.com
http://www.gamepro.com/nintendo/wii/games/features/107845.shtml
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 02, 2007, 04:23:19 PM
.As for the enhancement, now that captured my attention. Just what could they be talking about? A new channel for online gaming? Patches that fixes some of the pointer issues? The firmware upgrade that FINALLY allows users to plug in an external HD?
Post by: Adrock on April 02, 2007, 04:29:50 PM
I dislike cryptic interviews. I don't doubt something is in the works, but why bother with these "hints?" I'd much rather they just say nothing until a real announcement is made.
Post by: King of Twitch on April 02, 2007, 04:38:19 PM
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on April 02, 2007, 04:48:30 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on April 02, 2007, 07:06:10 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 02, 2007, 09:48:18 PM
That said, Miyamoto affirms my longheld stance that Nintendo has always WANTED to go online, but for its own reasons instead of for conventional wisdom's.
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A lot of people have the misunderstanding that Nintendo is not interested in network gaming. What we are interested in isn't so much the idea of creating a game that is online and networked in a way that we have seen online up until now. We are really more interested in this idea of having the household television connected to the Internet constantly via the Wii. I think you are going to see a lot of new possibilities for new types of entertainment, such as new channels for the Wii in that type of network environment.
I think that will give rise to more social-based communities including those created by users, which is going to be a very interesting and exciting area for us to explore.
They've been trying to go online ever since the Famicom, but they have yet to nail some really unique usage of it beyond player matching and/or persistant worlds. When you realize that all online games use just these two paradigms of interaction, then it seems really wasteful of online connectivity. Nintendo's been trying to find their own unique thing to actually use online for... I don't know if they're there yet, but they're moving a little bit closer every day.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: King of Twitch on April 02, 2007, 10:08:32 PM
Post by: Shift Key on April 02, 2007, 10:13:01 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 02, 2007, 10:18:22 PM
Miyamoto talked about tenacity being one of his three personal tenets in game design. He's been kicking around the Mii concept for 20-odd years ever since the Famicom Disk Systemn, through to N64's Talent Studio, and finally to their realization ALL THESE YEARS LATER on the Wii. Likewise, Nintendo, as a company heavily invested in R&D and creativity, has been trying to create new experiences with online games for years, from the Famicom going online to trade stocks and bet on horse races (obvious non-game activities, but this was back in the '80s!), to the Super Famicom's Broadcast Satellaview system where players would all play simultaneously at the same time with a narrator broadcast to their system describing the world's changing events in REAL TIME, to the 64DD, which though it failed was the original platform for Animal Crossing and lives on through that game.
You look at that rich, diverse, creative, long-term, storied and dedicated development history, and it's easy to appreciate how they've been online for years and never quite satisfied with their implementation. They want more.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: oohhboy on April 03, 2007, 12:30:46 AM
As for match making, i always liked the PC client - server system. I log on to a server and there are all my favorite people I like to play with. If a retard logs in, we sort it out with a mob hanging. but for a console, that is not going to happen as the cost of running thoses servers like that is problematic. The next best thing would be the Blizzard style lobby system, but for games like Warcraft 3, it ends up being to a complete DOTA based wash.
Post by: AwesomeMan on April 03, 2007, 01:33:26 AM
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 02:08:49 AM
Post by: oohhboy on April 03, 2007, 02:43:23 AM
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Originally posted by: Acefondu
Shiggy doesn't get his every wish. Whatever enhancements may be coming it's safe to say we won't see them for a while if at all. If Nintendo thinks they're making a profit, then they won't rock the boat. They never do. Look at the Wii itself, it was a conservative effort to say the least with a bit of "waggle" involved.
In the traditional sense it maybe conservative, in that they didn't go for the I am faster tech race. But the X360 and PS3 are far more traditional since they are mearly following the technological road map already laid out by the chip makers. Normally, when you order a chip, you ask for faster above all else. To hell with how much power it eats or how much heat it puts out, that is what heat sinks are for. Nintendo went against the roadmaps by asking for chips that were cheap, low power comsumption but while still upping the power.
The point is that there is almost nothing traditional about the Wii. They are in their own boat right now in the same lake.
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 03:01:31 AM
Post by: Pittbboi on April 03, 2007, 03:22:09 AM
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They've been trying to go online ever since the Famicom, but they have yet to nail some really unique usage of it beyond player matching and/or persistant worlds.
Well why don't they try nailing that first. Because while they're busy trying to "revolutionize" something that's actually pretty fine how it is, their fans who would probably want a nice traditional online experience are starving. Sorry, it just sounds like more pussyfooting to me. They haven't really paid much attention to online, thinking that it wasn't going to be anything more than a little accessory to traditional gaming and not profitable to really pursue. But now that online gaming is actually taking off and blossoming into a legitimate feature of console gaming, Nintendo is realizing they're behind. But of course they're not going to say that.
For now I'm going to simply agree with this:
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WORDSWORDSWORDS, until I see something in action its merely words.
(...though I will cast my die and say I hope it's something to do with more "gamer" esque channels)
Post by: Rhoq on April 03, 2007, 03:43:19 AM
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Originally posted by: Kairon
it will still become the next big hit like the "Everybody Votes" channel
Are you serious or sarcastic? Everybody Votes, was a fun little idea for the first week. I haven't even bothered to check it since because it got old and tired very quickly with it's frivolous "polls".
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 03:49:24 AM
Post by: Rhoq on April 03, 2007, 03:56:37 AM
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Originally posted by: Acefondu
lol, me either. The votes channel could have been great. "Should Sonic be in Smash Bros? Yes or no? But instead we get, "Where would you rather live? A mountain or beach..."
Thank you!
If the Everybody Votes channel asked questions that mattered - Questions that could directly influence future content and features of the Wii, I'd be checking it out several times per day. Instead there are just so many times I can vote for my favorite color before losing interest.
Post by: ryancoke on April 03, 2007, 04:02:10 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 03, 2007, 04:39:36 AM
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Originally posted by: Rhoq
If the Everybody Votes channel asked questions that mattered - Questions that could directly influence future content and features of the Wii, I'd be checking it out several times per day. Instead there are just so many times I can vote for my favorite color before losing interest.
Questions that matter are boring. The Everybody Votes channel would have approximately zero use in terms of market research, plus obvious attempts to use it that way would make the vast majority of people feel like they were being used, and they'd ignore it.
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 04:47:32 AM
Post by: Rhoq on April 03, 2007, 04:53:03 AM
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Originally posted by: PartyBear
Questions that matter are boring. The Everybody Votes channel would have approximately zero use in terms of market research, plus obvious attempts to use it that way would make the vast majority of people feel like they were being used, and they'd ignore it.
So instead they treat their customers like morons by asking questions which insult their intelligence? Seriously, I'm not 6 years old. It's OK to ask me to vote on a question that actually requires some thought and one that eventually might make a difference. Until that happens, this channel is useless (to me, anyways).
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 04:54:29 AM
So what's the difference if you answer Yes or No with a cuddely and cute Mii on your Wii?
Post by: Requiem on April 03, 2007, 05:27:57 AM
The only problem with Wii FPS's so far is the turning, and that God-forsaken bounding box. Putting a shooter on-rails eliminates both problems.
Plus, who wouldn't buy Time Crisis 4 or anyone of Sega's fantastic on-rail shooters?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 03, 2007, 05:31:27 AM
However, my main point was that the Everybody Votes channel isn't useful as a surveying tool. A survey asks two kinds of questions: questions to determine what demographic you fall into, and questions to determine your opinions. The latter aren't very useful without the former. The only information Nintendo has about me when I answer a question on the EV channel is that I have access to a Wii and my sex, based on my Mii. They don't know whether I'm a kindergartener or a CEO. Survey questions are also typically more complex than yes or no.
It's just a silly diversion. I admit that "Red or blue?" is a dull question, but there have been better ones. I'm particularly hoping that my "Which animal would you rather be mauled by? Mountain lion or Grizzly bear?" submission gets selected soon. If it doesn't interest you at all, that's perfectly understandable. You can let Nintendo know what you think about it right here. And if you're really jonesing for a way to give Nintendo feedback on your Wii, you can add that link to your Internet Channel favorites.
Post by: MaryJane on April 03, 2007, 05:52:11 AM
What really interested me about the article, besides the things I already read, was this statement:
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I think that will give rise to more social-based communities including those created by users, which is going to be a very interesting and exciting area for us to explore.
The two things I get out of this are:
1. Instead of just creating a "Home" and selling it to us, Nintendo is going to let us create our own environments which we can then share with others. Personally I think it will be Mii Plaza personalizations. I would create an NWR themed room and invite all of you!
2. The latter part of the quote starting from which, is a little ambiguous. However, my own interpretation is that Nintendo (either through the voting channel or just observation of the user created communities) will be providing us with things we want instead of assuming what it is we want. Whether or not such information will be applied to gaming, or just the communities is of course entirely up to Nintendo, but I hope it can be used for both.
Edit: Brain faster than hands.
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 06:34:15 AM
Don't tell me a channel created for the sole purpose of voting and measuring by country and state is not a plausable way to gather information. That's just outright ignorant.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 03, 2007, 07:48:03 AM
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Originally posted by: Acefondu
Bear, your argument to the EV channel not sufficing as a way to gather statistics is laughable.
Let's keep this civil.
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It's a poll system, not a survey or focus group.
That's essentially what I said.
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There's plenty of ways to understand the consumer and polls are one. Lots of companies use polls as a way to measure the consumers wants.
Show me a meaningful poll that consists of one question with only two possible answers.
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Don't tell me a channel created for the sole purpose of voting and measuring by country and state is not a plausable way to gather information. That's just outright ignorant.
Then I'll tell you the channel was created for the sole purpose of providing entertainment and that Nintendo does not regard it as a way to gather information. Whether or not it could be used that way is, therefore, irrelevant.
Post by: Rhoq on April 03, 2007, 07:49:58 AM
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 07:55:48 AM
We're talking about the video game industry here, two choices for a poll is perfectly legit. "Would you rather play a game... Online; Offline?"
Boy, I'd love to see the answer to that one. But Nintendo doesn't have the balls to see what the answer may be.
You can't tell me questions like that aren't useful information, two different answers or fifty. In my 3 years now as a Marketing major I can attest that less questions are sometimes better in certain situations. This being one of them under the guise of an entertaining medium no one would fill out a 30 page survey.
Post by: Smoke39 on April 03, 2007, 08:02:11 AM
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Originally posted by: PartyBear
Then I'll tell you the channel was created for the sole purpose of providing entertainment and that Nintendo does not regard it as a way to gather information. Whether or not it could be used that way is, therefore, irrelevant.
This is what it ultimately comes down to. Miyamoto mentioned how pleasantly surprised he was when he found his wife playing with the voting channel one night. I don't think casual gamers would really care much about "meaningful" questions.
Post by: jakeOSX on April 03, 2007, 08:36:53 AM
that being said, i am waiting for time crisis 4. and the mech controls.
oh and give me a joystick / throttle and freespace 2 and i'd giggle from now til my dying day.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 03, 2007, 08:58:21 AM
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Originally posted by: Acefondu
Now you're just avoiding your own comments. Irrelevant? It's only irrelevent because Nintendo said so.
Precisely. That's enough to make it not matter. I do not believe Nintendo has anyone looking through the millions of submissions they get through the EV channel for questions like "Would you buy more Virtual Console games if they were cheaper?" If you think Virtual Console games should be cheaper, for example, tell Nintendo through a channel that they actually use for that sort of thing. I provided a link earlier. Complaining that the EV channel doesn't serve a purpose that Nintendo never had in mind for it does not make sense.
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You on the other hand said poll statistics aren't a viable resource. They are quite a viable resource.
I said the statistics that could possibly be gathered through the EV channel are practically useless. That is not the same as claiming that no polls are useful.
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We're talking about the video game industry here, two choices for a poll is perfectly legit. "Would you rather play a game... Online; Offline?"
Boy, I'd love to see the answer to that one. But Nintendo doesn't have the balls to see what the answer may be.
Please demonstrate two things. 1. How useful the answer to that question would be. 2. How Nintendo not using the EV channel to ask that question means that they lack the cojones to ask it in another fashion.
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You can't tell me questions like that aren't useful information, two different answers or fifty. In my 3 years now as a Marketing major I can attest that less questions are sometimes better in certain situations. This being one of them under the guise of an entertaining medium no one would fill out a 30 page survey.
I think you may have mistyped that last sentence, and I apologize if I've misinterpreted it, but I think you meant to say that nobody would fill out a 30 page survey under the guise of an entertainment medium although they would fill out a short poll. I agree with that to a certain extent. Would people be eager to answer short market research polls a few times a week, though? I know I'd delete the EV channel if that's all it was good for. Also, if you're arguing that fewer questions or answers are better in this case because it's an entertainment feature, then that has little to do with whether fewer questions or answers are better for the research. There's the problem of getting responses at all, but beyond that, the quality of the responses is important, too.
Enough of the silly questions on the EV channel have been unanswerable by me because of the limited number of options that I would have very little confidence in any data that came from it. For example, the question of whether you brush your teeth before or after breakfast seems like a perfect binary question. You can either brush before or after, right? What if you don't eat breakfast? The question becomes unanswerable. Do you prefer to watch basketball or soccer on TV? I don't like to watch either of them, but I find basketball slightly less unappealing. If someone were going to decide what to show on TV, would my answer be of any use? The lack of options caused the data to be spoiled.
Your own example of whether people prefer online or offline games leaves out the possibility of a middle ground. What if I have no preference? Which answer do I choose? Wouldn't the data be a lot more useful if there were an option for indifference, preventing my vote from being spoiled? Wouldn't it be even more useful if the question was something like, "What percentage of your game playing time is spent playing online games?" with several possible answers? Wouldn't that be yet more useful if you could also ask me how many hours a week I spend playing games? The EV channel is not designed, intended, or needed to do that kind of thing. It's just there for fun.
By the way, I apologize to everyone else for how far off topic this has strayed.
Post by: Kairon on April 03, 2007, 08:59:53 AM
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Originally posted by: Acefondu
We're talking about the video game industry here, two choices for a poll is perfectly legit. "Would you rather play a game... Online; Offline?"
Oh for GOSH SAKES. Talk about a false dichotomy, and such a limited scope as to be useless.
Look, I don't know about you hardcore gamers, but I've got one foot in gaming and one foot in non-gaming. I use Everybody Votes RELIGIOUSLY every weekend when I get the chance to, especially since I don't have Wii internet access at my dorms. half an hour's dicking around on that is a great, non-gaming, relaxing, diversion. And I'm still waiting to see if they'll put up my "Do you believe in ghosts/spirits?" question to boot.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 09:08:06 AM
And yes, less is more in this situation. It narrows the statistics to a limited answer for a direct response question. If the question isn't direct, "like brushing your teeth" then it deserves to be thrown away for how poorly it was written.
How is there a middle ground for online or offline games? People have a preference for one or the other. Sure the question could be worded different like asking preference, but the type of game shouldn't matter that's not the point of the question I presented. And I'll agree that two options is a bit limited, but ground can still be covered with that.
I apologise for any gramatical errors, I am at work...lol.
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 09:09:54 AM
Look, I don't know about you hardcore gamers, but I've got one foot in gaming and one foot in non-gaming. I use Everybody Votes RELIGIOUSLY every weekend when I get the chance to, especially since I don't have Wii internet access at my dorms. half an hour's dicking around on that is a great, non-gaming, relaxing, diversion. And I'm still waiting to see if they'll put up my "Do you believe in ghosts/spirits?" question to boot."
False dichotomy? Ghosts and spirits? What if I believe in Vampires? Red and Blue? What about Green? I guess what irritates me most about your post is the overused phrase of false dichotomy not to mention how hypocritical its use turned out to be.
Post by: MaryJane on April 03, 2007, 09:44:57 AM
A completely seperate controller that utilizes the sensor bar, maybe the gun(I forgot what the name is) is just that, it could be something else also (not a gun but some other controller).
Post by: SixthAngel on April 03, 2007, 10:04:24 AM
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Originally posted by: Acefondu
We can agree Nintendo meant this to be fun. Well, I don't know who finds answering dumb questions fun. Challenge me with something, that's fun.
I can't believe people don't understand the everybody votes channel. The point is not to give you hard questions or to trick you into doing market research(awful idea by both execution and the kind of data you would get). The whole point is to see how "in touch" you are with the rest of the world/Wii owners. It take a few seconds everyday and you get to see how your answers compare to others and your overall answers as well.
Post by: vudu on April 03, 2007, 10:19:34 AM
QuoteExactly. The voting isn't the fun part; the predicting and the viewing of the subsequent results are what makes it worthwhile.
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
I can't believe people don't understand the everybody votes channel. The point is not to give you hard questions or to trick you into doing market research(awful idea by both execution and the kind of data you would get). The whole point is to see how "in touch" you are with the rest of the world/Wii owners. It take a few seconds everyday and you get to see how your answers compare to others and your overall answers as well.
Plus you learn stuff. For instance, I did not know that more people who participate in the Everybody Votes Channel play a musical instrument than not. You learn something every day. I also found it interesting (and funny) that the only states that have more residents who prefer mountains over beaches contain the Rocky Mountains.
Post by: anubis6789 on April 03, 2007, 11:24:55 AM
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We're talking about the video game industry here, two choices for a poll is perfectly legit. "Would you rather play a game... Online; Offline?"
This question, as well as any question from the Everybody Votes channel, is completely unusable from a research stand point.
Think about this, those that use the channel already have internet access, would that not biased the poll data? What about those who do not have access to the channel, do their opinions not matter, and would this not biased the data more? How many Wii owners have access to the internet anyway? How many of the Wii owners that do use the channel would use all six voters and thus swing the vote in a way they want, adding even more bias?
In my opinion the channel was meant for, and is only usable for, entertainment purposes.
As for the discussion of Miyamoto's comment on some "enhancements" for the hardcore gamers all I have is this to say: what the hell is a hardcore gamer? I really cannot stand that label, nor can I stand most of those who self identify themselves as "hardcore" gamers. Most of them think that playing a lot of Square Enix games makes them sort of awesome gaming god, but really all they are is nothing more then a snobby elitist punk. I have on many occasions heard these people say that one of the most important parts of a game is the story, and in one instance this was in a discussion about 2D fighting games!? In my opinion you hardly ever need a great story to make a great game, and a bad story hardly ever sinks a great game. What makes these people even more funny is that they often site some post 6 Final Fantasy as having the best story in a game ever. I find this horrendously funny because these people say that story is one of the most important things in a game yet they don't have any clue what a good story is.
I think I am going to stop right now before I go into a thread breaking rant about all the ills in gaming and how the "hardcore" gamer is in some way a reason for them. I would also like to add here that I do not dislike all Square Enix games, they are fine for the most part, I just use them because most of the "hardcore" tend to hold them up as some sort of banner. The last thing I want to say is that I am well aware that almost all of the preceding paragraph was opinion, and that just as I am entitled to my opinion, those people are entitled to theirs, no Matter how wrong it may be.
Post by: Kairon on April 03, 2007, 11:51:26 AM
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Originally posted by: Acefondu
"Oh for GOSH SAKES. Talk about a false dichotomy, and such a limited scope as to be useless.
Look, I don't know about you hardcore gamers, but I've got one foot in gaming and one foot in non-gaming. I use Everybody Votes RELIGIOUSLY every weekend when I get the chance to, especially since I don't have Wii internet access at my dorms. half an hour's dicking around on that is a great, non-gaming, relaxing, diversion. And I'm still waiting to see if they'll put up my "Do you believe in ghosts/spirits?" question to boot."
False dichotomy? Ghosts and spirits? What if I believe in Vampires? Red and Blue? What about Green? I guess what irritates me most about your post is the overused phrase of false dichotomy not to mention how hypocritical its use turned out to be.
Ah, but here's the thing: my question is for shits and giggles. You want your question to be serious. For a throw-away lets-have-fun question like mine, you can have simple dichotomies because you're just defining the terms for yourself and having fun and seeing where it leads to. For your question, which you intend to be taken seriously, any SERIOUS and RATIONAL decision would have to take into account myriad factors that simply aren't accounted for. Thus, any choice from 2 different answers would have worth only in entertainment, and not as a well thought-out, rational decision. Just look at how difficult the "should we ask serious questions" issue is turning out to be here on the forums.
Not to mention all the sample demographics problems.
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Originally posted by: anubis6789
As for the discussion of Miyamoto's comment on some "enhancements" for the hardcore gamers all I have is this to say: what the hell is a hardcore gamer? I really cannot stand that label, nor can I stand most of those who self identify themselves as "hardcore" gamers.
EA has a casual games site called Pogo Island. Their "Casual Players" play a TON.
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I would also add that these players spend a lot of time on the site. Free Pogo players are spending an average of 35 minutes on the site per day and Club Pogo players spend more than 12 hours per week.
Incidentally, about 35+ minutes is how much time I spend on the Everybody Votes channel every weekend when I can access it.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: vherub on April 04, 2007, 07:53:46 AM
if you have 10,000 people all asking the channel "If you must use friend codes, let it be once and not per game" "get some online high scoreboards" or "put more rpgs on the VC" Nintendo might pay a bit more attention
Post by: Kairon on April 04, 2007, 08:06:18 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@ol.com
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 04, 2007, 08:08:27 AM
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Originally posted by: vherub
The EV channel could be usefull if wii users mobilized and decided enmasse to submit the same "question"
if you have 10,000 people all asking the channel "If you must use friend codes, let it be once and not per game" "get some online high scoreboards" or "put more rpgs on the VC" Nintendo might pay a bit more attention
Nintendo's contact page could also be useful if 10,000 people all sent the same comment. Why is there this bizarre compulsion to use the EV channel to do this? If you submit questions like that, you are spamming up the system and reducing its value to the people who do like it. If you can't handle the concept of the EV channel -- if it offends you to the core of your being that Nintendo would ask you whether you prefer cats or dogs -- then just delete it from your Wii.
I don't know how this became my pet issue, but I'm done. I have a feeling I'll earn a mod's ire for perpetuating off topic discussion.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 06, 2007, 03:43:37 AM
Specifically, I am sure Shiggy is talking about games like Metroid Prime: Corruption that will bring a new level of interaction to a hardcore gamers game. And perhaps even some of the 3rd party offerings that are finally getting the concept more, and learning how to use the Wiimote to subtly enhance games instead of making crazy concept controls that don't always work.
However, IF Nintendo is enhancing hardware or firmware, then color me intrigued and excited.
Post by: the1st_fret on April 07, 2007, 01:25:02 AM
Ooh! And I know what a hardcore gamer is. Its someone who really enjoys video games
Post by: anubis6789 on April 07, 2007, 06:34:25 AM
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Ooh! And I know what a hardcore gamer is. Its someone who really enjoys video games
Could you not just call yourself a gamer with out the hardcore part and still convey the same meaning to other people? The only reason the term "hardcore" is added is to make elitist gamers feel better about themselves.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 07, 2007, 09:59:43 AM
