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Offline Ceric

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Mafia L: Retrospective
« on: May 02, 2011, 09:04:29 PM »
Hello Everyone,

Mafia L is over.  I was going to do a huge Retroactive in 2 parts because I wanted some unweighted answers to some questions but, I quickly abandoned that after Day 7 thread.  Well here we are.  This is going to be a wall of text that I hope future host will learn from my gross mistakes.

I'm sure everyone realized this but, the rules came out looking more elaborate then they should of.  I was trying to really hone them in so that the general Townies had a good base to work on.  I was also a stickler to following them even when I really wanted to throw them out a window  just to move the story in the direction I wanted it to go.  I had made the rules I was going to have to live with them.

While we're on rules here are a few I put in on hindsight:

Only voting Mafia count.  I planned a lot of this game based on the assumption that I have a semi-active mafia.  I figure they may not really play in the vote thread but I figure I generally get 3 votes.  The no-vote was to be an incentive to actually vote.  It didn't work like that.  The ironic part is that a lot of the story revolved around the mafia doing stuff.  Which had me flying by the seat of my pants a lot of this mafia game.

Inactive rule.  I thought about retrofitting this in but, as I mentioned above, I was trying to be strict in my rule interpretation.  I probably kill half the members of the game with this rule and when I would have let it fall. Apdude would be the only Mafia at that point and you know that might have helped the game.

Move Madness Rules to the bottom.  Not a rule par se but I think if I moved the Madness rules to the bottom the whole ruleset might have been better understood.

I think the role mix was ok but, I think if I did this again I probably give the Saving Spirit the ability to investigate instead of save if so chooses.

I'm sure everyone knows this but there were 4 mafia members.  I debated on it being five mafia but the 1 to 4 ratio was suggested by a more knowledgeable host so I went with that.   I didn't tell everyone because I honestly didn't remember a mafia where the number was immediately known and it didn't come up on the material I read preparing.  I thought I had revealed the number when I said this:
...
There are 17 Players,  which is a relatively good turn out.  Roles should come out sometime today and Gameplay will start tomorrow with the first story post. 

<players>

We are looking at a 4 - 17 day game.  I figure it will be closer to 9-10 Days.

I honestly thought that the game would start out chaotic while the mafia discovered each other.   Then as they found out about each other they organize.  By that time the Townies would be starting to organize themselves and the mafia would have started infiltrating the townies on their own and would need to reconcile themselves.  Plus with how the Reveal worked it was very possible that only one side of the mafia reveal would know definitively from me that the other was mafia so their be a bit of mistrust at the beginning.  Thought it would be an interesting mechanic.

I'm going to be linking my notes for everyone so you can see my stuff, the rolls, and the little ending blurb I started with for day 7 which is also different then my original ending. 

In fact the whole story sort of changed as it was set the Mafia was being inactive.  Their was a specific reason I didn't want aliens in the town and that was the Mafia wasn't going to be from the town.  Every Mafia member was sent a questionnaire to fill in as part of their role text.  Apdude sent his in but no one else did, first sign.  This was sent so they could set what they were.  I ended up choosing for everyone else.  You can see the infamous role messages in my link.

The original story was pretty cool at least in my mind.  Their are still references in the current story and I used it as the base but the new story is very much more town focus then the original.  Here we go.

The mafia is a really an organization that is setup outside of time.  They moved their from their own given time streams after the events of the Catastrophe.  They believe that the Unity  stifled the chances at a better life for their races and species. The Scientist had started to find different spots and places were little changes in history needed to be made to start to steer time away from the the Unity occurring, think back to the rubber ducky story.  At one point the most influential portion and place in time was established and agents where dispatched to that area, this would be Mira and the agents where the Mafia.   

The other side of this conflict is well… everyone else.  More notably The Madnesss(Old Foe) and The Saving Spirit(The Interferer).  They were inspired by Quantum Leap.  The Saving Spirit I imagined as more of a leprechaun and he talks like that.  Original I was going to have one of the stories days told from his perspective.  Obviously that never happened.  The Madness on the other hand played a more prominent role then I thought it would.  As told the Madness is well chaos embodied spawned over time.  If you had to imagine his appearance it would look like a jagged clawed shadow extending from someone with shadowless parts where Eyes would be.  Both the Saving Spirit and The Madness know each other and are for the same goal in this instance which is to cause the Unity.  Of course The Madness thinks The Saving Spirit is too soft and generally despises him, and The Saving Spirits obviously does not agree with The Madness methods.   The Mafia is well aware of these two after multiple engagements throughout time and thats why they refer to them as The Old Foe (The Madness) and The Interferer (The Saving Spirit).

All the sides are good, except The Madness who is well crazy for all intents and purposes.  I always believed that the best villains where good in their eyes.

The Unity is one of two points in time where all the majority of timelines converge and the Catastrophe is the second point where this happen.  The Madness knows this and thats why he keeps mentioning time is durable to justify his actions.    On flip side the Mafia wants to cause what they call the Separation which is the prevention of the Unity and allows the creation of a night infinite number of alternative time lines that never, to everyones knowledge, collapse again to the Catastrophe.

Welp this is where I stop tonight.  I've sort of ran out of time.  I have a lot more to share and here is the link to the notes.


http://cid-459b860583c550d4.skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?page=view&resid=459B860583C550D4!736

Please feel free to ask questions.  I have more to say about the specific days and other things.
 
Edit: Text cleanup and I fixed the link.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 10:17:58 AM by Ceric »
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 10:27:45 PM »
I got to admit that I really didn't read the story that much during the game. I guess if I did I would have less questions than I did since most of the happenings were being told in the story. I generally just looked in the status thread for a quick and easy run down of the happenings.
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2011, 10:53:06 PM »
Thats what it was there for.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011, 10:54:13 PM »
Mafia, step yo game up!

Offline Dasmos

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2011, 01:03:12 AM »
Life happens, man. Sucked that I helped ruin the game, though.
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Offline apdude

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 01:36:07 AM »
Mafia, step yo game up!

I should repost that weekend at bernies picture shyguy posted a while back. 

I still had fun with it even though I pretty much knew I was doomed.  I could tell Ceric put a lot of work into the story part so I tried to play along as much as I could and throw some sillyness in to keep everyone interested.

I kind of liked the fact the mafia didn't know each other in the begining, and it did cause a little apprihension on my side when ever someone contated me.  When Dasmos sent me a message saying that he knew I was mafia I was wondering if he was tricking me since he was close to being voted out that day.  I thought he would turn around and get everyone to vote me out if I acknoledged the fact I was mafia, but since it didn't seem that anyone else mentioned him sending a message like that, then it was real. 

I'm surprised the townies didn't try to contact more pretending to know to see if someone would resopond.  I think Shyguy sent me a message saying something like "I hear you are someone who can be trusted" and I was wondering if that was to mean that he was mafia as well.

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 02:02:10 AM »
I really didn't send out that many PMs this game. I was mainly sticking to people contacting me first until it was revealed who were townies. apdude your PM at the start of the game about weather or not you should try to bring out the Mafia by being really active about it or if you should just wait it out. I said that I personally would try to not to draw attention to myself so early. I guess you kinda followed that advice the first few days.That PM also was one of the reasons I sent thatguy a request to investigate you along with 2 others. Its funny what you can look back on and say "yep this guy is kinda standing out."
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2011, 07:27:28 AM »
Life happens, man. Sucked that I helped ruin the game, though.
I wouldn't say ruin as much as redirected. 

Their was actually a point on day 4 where the Mafia almost got a hit off to kill ThatGuy.  One of the votes was a little late.  By that time I was PMing the Mafia who hadn't voted with time remaining.  If that would have happen then we could still be playing today.  Mafia would have gotten their hit on Thatguy, he wasn't protected that night because jrlibrarian had TSS, then Apdude could have turned around and sacrificed Rabicle to cement he was  a townie but, what he would really be doing is opening up the ability for their to always be a mafia hit, 2 mafia so even if Dasmos didn't vote Apdude would have directed the hits.  ThatGuy investigation was almost too late, I think it was 7 minutes to spare.  I thought about not giving it to him but it was back to hard lining with the rules.  Once their Apdude would could have Picked off Maxi and possibly sacrificed Dasmos and hide in plain sight for the rest of the game hoping not to get TSS for the win.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 10:20:15 AM by Ceric »
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Offline Despicable

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2011, 03:13:33 PM »
Yeah I didn't read the story much either.  :-\  Let's do better next game!
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2011, 03:38:56 PM »
I thought the story was too complex with how I did things to keep the references generic but, it was just not reading...  I'm normally really short and to the point but I thought everyone would want a less mechanical feel with more flavor and room to act out in the voting threads.  I was going to go through and label who said what and the references in the story,  I don't know if their be much benefit in that. 

Before I forget to mention.  I was hoping the Mafia Reveal mechanic would help leverage the Forum medium with the whole PM system and all you don't have when everyone is in a room together.

Did anyone figure out who was The Leader?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 03:43:00 PM by Ceric »
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2011, 08:00:39 PM »
thatguy?
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
Alexis, she/her/Miss

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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2011, 08:55:31 PM »
The leader of what?

Offline Ceric

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2011, 09:18:11 PM »
thatguy?
Yep.  He just sort of fell into that role in the voting threads.  The look in the story was inspired by A.I.M. In the Iron Man Series.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2011, 09:25:29 PM »
thatguy?
Yep.  He just sort of fell into that role in the voting threads.  The look in the story was inspired by A.I.M. In the Iron Man Series.
I just figured he was the Leader because he was the Investigator. Then again a townie could be the Leader in these games.
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Offline Silenced

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2011, 09:45:44 AM »
We all were a little too dependant on thatguy, who could have easily been killed by the mafia. If that happened, we would have been in trouble. I was right on Dasmos at least.

Who killed RAB with The Madness?

Offline Ceric

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2011, 09:53:31 AM »
We all were a little too dependant on thatguy, who could have easily been killed by the mafia. If that happened, we would have been in trouble. I was right on Dasmos at least.

Who killed RAB with The Madness?
Its in the story but, ThatGuy did.  Well I guess technically Rabicle was never alive during the whole game from the story but, ThatGuy was the one that did the Madness hit.  Though I was actually I little lenient on this one because with Dasmos and Apdude out a Mafia lost was almost a forgone conclusion.  ThatGuy was almost saved by The Saving Spirit that night which would have negated the Madness but, who had The Saving Spirit just asked if he could save ThatGuy with it as a question and I just chose to interpret that as a Question on rule clarification instead of a target.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 09:55:52 AM by Ceric »
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2011, 09:55:09 AM »
thatguy, He had the madness that last day and he decided to kill Rabicle.
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2011, 10:15:15 AM »
Life happens, man. Sucked that I helped ruin the game, though.
I wouldn't say ruin as much as redirected. 

Their was actually a point on day 4 where the Mafia almost got a hit off to kill ThatGuy.  One of the votes was a little late.  By that time I was PMing the Mafia who hadn't voted with time remaining.  If that would have happen then we could still be playing today.  Mafia would have gotten their hit on Thatguy, he wasn't protected that night because jrlibrarian had TSS, then Apdude could have turned around and sacrificed Rabicle to cement he was  a townie but, what he would really be doing is opening up the ability for their to always be a mafia hit, 2 mafia so even if Dasmos didn't vote Apdude would have directed the hits.  ThatGuy investigation was almost too late, I think it was 7 minutes to spare.  I thought about not giving it to him but it was back to hard lining with the rules.  Once their Apdude would could have Picked off Maxi and possibly sacrificed Dasmos and hide in plain sight for the rest of the game hoping not to get TSS for the win.

Quick question about this. Night 4 was when apdude was searched by thatguy.If thatguy died couldn't he of passed along the info to myself or one of the townies thus pretty much resulting in the same result we have with maybe one more day added?
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2011, 10:22:01 AM »
Life happens, man. Sucked that I helped ruin the game, though.
I wouldn't say ruin as much as redirected. 

Their was actually a point on day 4 where the Mafia almost got a hit off to kill ThatGuy.  One of the votes was a little late.  By that time I was PMing the Mafia who hadn't voted with time remaining.  If that would have happen then we could still be playing today.  Mafia would have gotten their hit on Thatguy, he wasn't protected that night because jrlibrarian had TSS, then Apdude could have turned around and sacrificed Rabicle to cement he was  a townie but, what he would really be doing is opening up the ability for their to always be a mafia hit, 2 mafia so even if Dasmos didn't vote Apdude would have directed the hits.  ThatGuy investigation was almost too late, I think it was 7 minutes to spare.  I thought about not giving it to him but it was back to hard lining with the rules.  Once their Apdude would could have Picked off Maxi and possibly sacrificed Dasmos and hide in plain sight for the rest of the game hoping not to get TSS for the win.

Quick question about this. Night 4 was when apdude was searched by thatguy.If thatguy died couldn't he of passed along the info to myself or one of the townies thus pretty much resulting in the same result we have with maybe one more day added?
There is a 50% chance that the results would have gone to his designated backup, which was you that night if memory serves.   So yes it could have happen that way.  The wrinkle on that would be if you were told the investigation then ThatGuy wouldn't know the results till the game was over because, the living aren't allowed to talk to the dead.  Add a little suspense their though it probably be obvious with how the vote threads went.
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Offline Silenced

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2011, 10:50:03 AM »
The hardest part about this game was trying to find the mafia members. Since most of them weren't participating, we were basically shooting in the dark and praying we'd hit something. Again, thatguy helped out.

I liked The Madness role more than a regular Killer role, since success was varied. I would like to see it pop up again in a new game (which it might since my mafia game has a somewhat similar role).

Offline Ceric

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2011, 11:32:20 AM »
The hardest part about this game was trying to find the mafia members. Since most of them weren't participating, we were basically shooting in the dark and praying we'd hit something. Again, thatguy helped out.

I liked The Madness role more than a regular Killer role, since success was varied. I would like to see it pop up again in a new game (which it might since my mafia game has a somewhat similar role).
Yeah I didn't like the staticness of the traditional Doctor and Killer role.  That's why they migrated.  I also didn't want the game to be to predictable and wanted a role that had room to really change the game so to speak and that's how The Madness became so complicated and the Story premise was why TM and TSS interact how they do canceling each other out.  I didn't want to get to the point where say the investigator was always safe.  Though I do thing giving TSS an investigation option as well would have helped.  Mostly want to share my thoughts so that future Host can learn from what I did because I did experiment.

Though isn't it always the hardest part to find Mafia?  I actually thought you guys blazed that trail much faster than I was planning or remember from other games I played.  One of the reasons I didn't relent on the number is that as gamers we like a challenge in the game.  Having the actual number would have taken the tension and ultimate relief out of the game.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 11:34:41 AM by Ceric »
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2011, 11:56:09 AM »
Well if you are looking at the fastest townie win look at Mafia 47.Hollywood Mafia. The townies voted out all 3 Mafia members in a row. It was almost a perfect game for the townies.Then again you didn't play that game.
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2011, 12:07:59 PM »
Well if you are looking at the fastest townie win look at Mafia 47.Hollywood Mafia. The townies voted out all 3 Mafia members in a row. It was almost a perfect game for the townies.Then again you didn't play that game.
What was the longest?  I remember PokeMafia taking forever.  I was actually worried really fast that was how this one was going to go down.  It should have been faster because every night should of had 2-3 kills except the first was 1-2 because TM and TSS didn't come into play till day 2.
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Re: Mafia L: Retrospective
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2011, 12:28:44 PM »
Well if you are looking at the fastest townie win look at Mafia 47.Hollywood Mafia. The townies voted out all 3 Mafia members in a row. It was almost a perfect game for the townies.Then again you didn't play that game.
What was the longest?  I remember PokeMafia taking forever.  I was actually worried really fast that was how this one was going to go down.  It should have been faster because every night should of had 2-3 kills except the first was 1-2 because TM and TSS didn't come into play till day 2.

Longest was 14 days.Mafia 14.Pokemafia was 9 days.
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
Alexis, she/her/Miss

Quote by Khushrenada in Safe Words 15.
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I'm happy with thinking pokepal148 is just eating a stick of butter. It seems about right for him. I don't need no stinking facts.