Topic: E3 2012 Press Conferences - Days 2-3: Nintendo Main PC & 3DS PC

[Hey Einstein!]

Judging by the posts here I guess I am one of the few who are looking forward to the 3DS holiday line up.


Yes, I was disappointed that the press show didn't reveal any games that hadn't already been announced.
And yes it felt like a waste of my time.


But there are at least 5 games hitting 3DS that I want to own. Probably more then I can afford. Which means I'll be too busy playing 3DS to feel bad about my interest in the Wii U launch titles having shriveled up and died.

[ejamer]

...
3DS is a different case. Seems to indicate that Nintendo are finished with announcing titles that are more than 6 months away. Look at the handling of Animal Crossing/Fire Emblem. Both are coming to the West with both released/nearly released in Japan. Yet they were no shows at E3. If this is what Nintendo's policy is now it's foolhardy. They are basically stopping people getting hyped about future software thus disillusioning fans. Though I suppose it could be a positive in some cases. Last Guardian was announced 6? years ago. Sony has been burned by that. And no one will ever forgot DNF. .  . . .

This is my big disappointment from E3 - Nintendo releasing a list of 3DS titles isn't just key to making new people excited about the system, but also to keeping existing customers eager and excited and willing to promote the system through word-of-mouth channels.


When Resident Evil Revelations was announced and some details started to leak out, I was excited. I bought a 3DS system 5 or 6 months before the game released knowing there would be at least one title coming that I really wanted to play and knowing roughly when that game would hit.  Now?  There is nothing on the horizon that has me really excited, no sizzle to the upcoming 3DS lineup that makes me excited to own the system.


Why does this disappointment matter when they've already got my money? Because I frequently have people asking if the console is good, if it's worth owning, and if I'm satisfied with my purchase.  The more time passes without having something (anything!) in the future that really excites me, the less inclined I am to recommend this system to anyone else.  In fact, my actual response has gone from "it's worth owning" to "not great, but still worthwhile for some people" to "better off saving your money unless there is a big sale".


This is a solid little piece of hardware. There are a few good games on the system already, and no reason why it shouldn't be littered with good games in the future. I want to be excited about my 3DS... but sometimes it feels like Nintendo of America is actively making that more difficult.  I'd rather have at least some announcements now that make me excited and deal with delays later than not have anything at all to hang my hat on.

[Tamazoid]

I agree with the above partially,  Personally i'm excited for Paper Mario, Luigi's Mansion and Heroes of Ruin plus the other 3rd parties games really create a deep library for the system.


Personally if i'm asked whether a console is worth having I would talk about the current library and base my opinion on that not on "Oh there's probably going to be a new Legend of Zelda next year, there was an E3 teaser trailer! You need to buy a 3DS Now!" I know some people buy a console for the games that will come (I bought a 3DS at launch bundled with Shadow Wars and didn't buy another game until Zelda) but I wouldn't tell someone a 3DS is worth buying now just because Pokemon 3DS brown and purple was announced. Though I this issue is very subjective (This is not an attack). Personally I can only afford 1 or 2 games every couple of months so i'm fine with Nintendo's policy to release a first party 3DS games every second month.


Nintendo would have blown away the press and fans if they had shown extensive trailers of Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem and then finished with a short teaser of Zelda 3DS or even a 2D Metroid game. I suppose there might be issues with Fire Emblem and Animal crossing if the text is still all in Japanese but that never used to stop Nintendo.

[UncleBob]

@RichIGN

Nintendo says it is trying to make games for people who really love games. Not just casual gamers. #E3NVC

Yeah, okay. Prove it.

Can someone pull up the sales history of first party Nintendo titles?
That many Million+ sellers.  Is there another developer/publisher that cranks out the hits on the scale that Nintendo does?

Unless there's some grand conspiracy with some crazed anti-gaming religious cult buying all the games so no one can play them, those games are being sold to... people who like games.  In the millions.

Sorry, I thought this comment was associated with something said recently. I knwo Nintendo has MADE games that people who love games play. I don't see them MAKING any in the near future. Pikmin 3 and Mario U aside.

If you want recent, look at the 3DS.  Multiple Million+ titles from Nintendo on a system that's slightly over a year old.  Not bad.

As per the press conference, 2 out of their four listed WiiU titles fit your idea of "games for people who love games."  I'd argue that NintendoLand fits there as well, considering the impressions it's getting from those who have actually played it.

Then, on the 3DS side of things, what's coming?  New Mario, New Pokemons, Luigi's Mansion, Fire Emblem, Paper Mario...

Sounds like a dang fine line up of games for people who love games.  I'll probably be getting 7 of those 8 listed.  Maybe I just don't really love games though.

[shingi_70]

Eh while I was disspointed on new 3DS stuff they showed a few games ill be picking up come fall. Only thing I didn't like was just glossing over the eshop and not announcing amy new eshop ip's like they did last year.

[fiendcode]

Well, at the end of the day I hope the negative response at least sends Nintendo the message that focusing exclusely on "launch window" Wii U and 2012 3DS stuff was a mistake.  And even then not coming out full force and announcing EVERYTHING even more of a mistake given all the Wii U launch window games that were perplexingly missing that we're slowly finding out about anyway (Black Ops 2, Epic Mickey 2, Madden 13, FIFA 13, Tomb Raider, etc). 

I seriously have no idea what Nintendo was thinking.  Some visually impressive teasers for something like Prime 4, Galaxy 3, Xenoblade 2 or Smash 4 (or whatever equivalents those teams are working on) really would've gone a long way and totally flipped perceptions imo.  One would think after they crapped the bed at last year's E3 they'd do a bit more than just roll out mostly the same stuff for this year.  It really boggles the mind given we know Nintendo is capable of doing an amazing system rollout (Wii @ E3 2006, 3DS @ E3 2010).

[ejamer]

The sad part is that they didn't need to do much to get 3DS owners excited.

Include footage for soon-to-be-released games like Rhythm Thief, Rayman Origins, Theatrhythm, and Hero of Ruins in the sizzle reel. Show a quick list of games like Zero Escape, Code of Princess, and LEGO Batman 2 and LEGO Lord of the Rings that will be arriving soon on the system. Mention that Fire Emblem is coming or show a screenshot.  Show a list of games currently in progress (or even just the names of licensed developers) for the eShop.


Doing all three would have only taken a couple of minutes and would've let everyone walk away with at least something. Instead they focused on a small number of games that look good but leave a decent-sized portion of gamers completely underwhelmed and feeling like there is a dearth of software coming (which isn't really true).

Nintendo didn't need to spend any time talking about these games - just let people know they exist. I understand focusing on a small showcase of games, but as the platform holder Nintendo needs to take that extra step and let me know that 3DS has a wealth of content coming... even if some of that content has a niche appeal.

It's sad to me that this list left me more excited after 2 minutes than Nintendo managed at any point in the two hour-long presentations they offered:
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/05/a-partial-list-of-upcoming-nintendo-3ds-games-rhythm-thief-included/

[Ian Sane]

I think Nintendo thinks that if they show stuff too early that the competitors will steal their ideas.  It's a pretty arrogant assumption and Nintendo doesn't even follow it when it really matters.  They revealed the tablet a year early and MS ripped it off.  So it's okay to let that cat out of the bag, but don't reveal any Wii U games that are a year off?

I personally don't like Nintendo's silence on this stuff but normally it isn't too crucial.  I just want to know but we don't HAVE to know.  But with the Wii U, this is the sort of time where you do want hype.  You're not just showcasing what is available on the Wii U at launch but what the Wii U is and why we should care about it.  At this E3 they had to sell the system itself.  So in that case having titles that are a year or two away is good.  Maybe the launch games aren't going to sell someone but if there is some future title they're interested in, they'll likely pay attention to the Wii U until that game comes out.  Otherwise that same person could just write the Wi U off and never pay attention again.  They should do whatever they can NOW to get people interested in the Wii U and that includes more than just the launch games.  This E3 was different than a typical one.  The big coming out party for a new system has be handled differently and they treated like they would have for an established system.

[Adrock]

Announcing games early tends to bite them in the ass. Ocarina of Time got delayed 73 times. So did Twilight Princess. With the way they delay titles and sometimes scrap entire projects. It's probably better for them to keep their mouths shut until the game is near release. They obviously don't always do this, but they probably should.

[shingi_70]

Announcing games early tends to bite them in the ass. Ocarina of Time got delayed 73 times. So did Twilight Princess. With the way they delay titles and sometimes scrap entire projects. It's probably better for them to keep their mouths shut until the game is near release. They obviously don't always do this, but they probably should.

Thats not the same thing as showing trailers for ga.es for next year though. I mean Mass Effect and Gears of War didn't hit until the next holiday season but we knew they were coming.

[Luigi Dude]

I personally don't like Nintendo's silence on this stuff but normally it isn't too crucial.  I just want to know but we don't HAVE to know.  But with the Wii U, this is the sort of time where you do want hype.  You're not just showcasing what is available on the Wii U at launch but what the Wii U is and why we should care about it.  At this E3 they had to sell the system itself.  So in that case having titles that are a year or two away is good.  Maybe the launch games aren't going to sell someone but if there is some future title they're interested in, they'll likely pay attention to the Wii U until that game comes out.  Otherwise that same person could just write the Wi U off and never pay attention again.  They should do whatever they can NOW to get people interested in the Wii U and that includes more than just the launch games.  This E3 was different than a typical one.  The big coming out party for a new system has be handled differently and they treated like they would have for an established system.

Well one thing to remember though is all signs are pointing to Microsoft and Sony unveiling their new systems at next years E3 and launching Fall 2013.  If Nintendo has games that aren't going to be ready until later 2013 around the time Microsoft and Sony launch their new system, it's not too surprising why they wouldn't want to show these games yet.

Basically it comes down to Nintendo is going to want some ammo to counter the upcoming systems next year.  If they show some of their early games now, then next years E3 when they need to be countering the upcoming systems they won't have as much to show.

[fiendcode]

Announcing games early tends to bite them in the ass. Ocarina of Time got delayed 73 times. So did Twilight Princess. With the way they delay titles and sometimes scrap entire projects. It's probably better for them to keep their mouths shut until the game is near release. They obviously don't always do this, but they probably should.

Thing is this is a new system launch, past issues like Zelda delays over a decade ago sort of miss the point.  Imagine if Nintendo had done this for previous systems and they'd shown ONLY launch window games at their E3 debuts for Wii (Twilight Princess, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Excite Truck, Wario Ware SM) and 3DS (Nintendogs + Cats, Pilotwings Resort, Steel Diver, Ocarina of Time 3D)... how do think the press and consumers would've taken that?

[Luigi Dude]

Thing is this is a new system launch, past issues like Zelda delays over a decade ago sort of miss the point.  Imagine if Nintendo had done this for previous systems and they'd shown ONLY launch window games at their E3 debuts for Wii (Twilight Princess, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Excite Truck, Wario Ware SM) and 3DS (Nintendogs + Cats, Pilotwings Resort, Steel Diver, Ocarina of Time 3D)... how do think the press and consumers would've taken that?

Well for the Wii and 3DS several of the games they showed where planned on coming out earlier but got delayed.  Metroid Prime 3 for instance was originally suppose to come out around the Wii's launch window but got delayed because of certain issues with the games quality.  For Mario Galaxy, during interviews at E3 2006, Miyamoto made it sound like they were trying to get that game out not too long after launch but that ended up coming out a full year after launch as well.  There's also Smash Bros Brawl which Sakurai would later admit after the game came out that all the characters except Sonic where finished in 2006 which points to Brawl originally planned on coming out sometime much earlier then its final release date as well.


For the 3DS Kid Icarus: Uprising was originally planned on coming out closer to the 3DS launch as well but ended up getting delayed several times as well.  Mario Kart 7 and Paper Mario were also probably planned for earlier releases since their studio's had several years to work on them after their last game but they still took longer to make.  The fact that Mario 3D Land wasn't shown at E3 2010 but instead at GDC 2011 which was almost a year later but still ended up coming out before Mario Kart 7 and Paper Mario kind of shows development issues probably ended up delaying these two in some way.


I wouldn't be surprised if since HD development is more complicated any of their previous systems, any game that Nintendo can't guarantee will be out within the launch window they don't want to risk showing.  Actually I wouldn't be surprised if because of new more complex HD development Nintendo fears that some of their delays will end up much longer then delays for Wii and 3DS were so if they were to show games they can't guarantee will be ready for early 2013 now, they could end up being delayed until late 2014 which would give them another Twilight Princess PR situation which I'm sure they never want again.

[fiendcode]

Thing is this is a new system launch, past issues like Zelda delays over a decade ago sort of miss the point.  Imagine if Nintendo had done this for previous systems and they'd shown ONLY launch window games at their E3 debuts for Wii (Twilight Princess, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Excite Truck, Wario Ware SM) and 3DS (Nintendogs + Cats, Pilotwings Resort, Steel Diver, Ocarina of Time 3D)... how do think the press and consumers would've taken that?

Well for the Wii and 3DS several of the games they showed where planned on coming out earlier but got delayed.  Metroid Prime 3 for instance was originally suppose to come out around the Wii's launch window but got delayed because of certain issues with the games quality.  For Mario Galaxy, during interviews at E3 2006, Miyamoto made it sound like they were trying to get that game out not too long after launch but that ended up coming out a full year after launch as well.  There's also Smash Bros Brawl which Sakurai would later admit after the game came out that all the characters except Sonic where finished in 2006 which points to Brawl originally planned on coming out sometime much earlier then its final release date as well.


For the 3DS Kid Icarus: Uprising was originally planned on coming out closer to the 3DS launch as well but ended up getting delayed several times as well.  Mario 3D Kart and Paper Mario were also probably planned for earlier releases since their studio's had several years to work on them after their last game but they still took longer to make.  The fact that Mario 3D Land wasn't shown at E3 2010 but instead at GDC 2011 which was almost a year later but still ended up coming out before Mario 3D Kart and Paper Mario kind of shows development issues probably ended up delaying these two in some way.


I wouldn't be surprised if since HD development is more complicated any of their previous systems, any game that Nintendo can't guarantee will be out within the launch window they don't want to risk showing.  Actually I wouldn't be surprised if because of new more complex HD development Nintendo fears that some of their delays will end up much longer then delays for Wii and 3DS were so if they were to show games they can't guarantee will be ready for early 2013 now, they could end up being delayed until late 2014 which would give them another Twilight Princess PR situation which I'm sure they never want again.

Fact is none of the games you mentioned were planned for launch window except Prime 3, and while all did see delays (except Mario Kart 7, which was actually pushed up ahead of schedule to make the holidays), the delays really didn't hurt any of them critically or commercially, and they really didn't hurt their platforms either.  I'm not sure the take away for Wii U this E3 is really in any way better by comparison, Nintendo's strategic blunder may have very well done real damage to the system's prospects.

[tendoboy1984]

I wouldn't be surprised if since HD development is more complicated any of their previous systems, any game that Nintendo can't guarantee will be out within the launch window they don't want to risk showing.  Actually I wouldn't be surprised if because of new more complex HD development Nintendo fears that some of their delays will end up much longer then delays for Wii and 3DS were so if they were to show games they can't guarantee will be ready for early 2013 now, they could end up being delayed until late 2014 which would give them another Twilight Princess PR situation which I'm sure they never want again.

The only "difficulty" of developing for an HD resolution is making all the textures sharper. That's all HD is, a resolution. I could play an N64 game in HD, and it would still be an HD game.

[broodwars]

Announcing games early tends to bite them in the ass. Ocarina of Time got delayed 73 times. So did Twilight Princess. With the way they delay titles and sometimes scrap entire projects. It's probably better for them to keep their mouths shut until the game is near release. They obviously don't always do this, but they probably should.

Alright, feel free to tell me how announcing those two games "too early" "bit them in the ass", because both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess were incredibly successful games.  I'm struggling to think of a game that they announced long before it was ready and then bombed when it finally released because it didn't live up to expectations.

[tendoboy1984]

Alright, feel free to tell me how announcing those two games "too early" "bit them in the ass", because both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess were incredibly successful games.  I'm struggling to think of a game that they announced long before it was ready and then bombed when it finally released because it didn't live up to expectations.

Skyward Sword

[broodwars]

Alright, feel free to tell me how announcing those two games "too early" "bit them in the ass", because both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess were incredibly successful games.  I'm struggling to think of a game that they announced long before it was ready and then bombed when it finally released because it didn't live up to expectations.

Skyward Sword

Skyward Sword still moved a lot of copies, though.  If you believe VGChartz, the game sold 3.28 million copies worldwide.  That's not bad at all, and those numbers seem believable enough for each region to be close to the truth.  It may not have lived up to Nintendo's inflated expectations, but I'm sure it was profitable for them.  It didn't sell as well because it was a bad game on a dead system using a peripheral that Nintendo never gave people a reason to have.

[Ian Sane]

Games that have been hurt by being revealed too soon and getting delayed are disastrous products like Daikatana and Duke Nukem Forever.  And in those cases it was because they were in development hell and get released as substandard product.  A typical Nintendo delay isn't because the game is a lost cause but just because it's taking a fair bit of time.  Nintendo doesn't delay a game for years and years and then deliver a buggy piece of **** that doesn't deliver half of what was promised.

If anything hurt Skyward Sword it could be, I don't know, NOA refusing to release Wii games that were already translated into English and the year of virtually no new Wii releases that resulted in.  The average joe probably thought the Wii was discontinued prior to Skyward Sword being released.

[tendoboy1984]

In that case, then they really need to get rid of Reggie. He completely ruined the Wii's reputation in the US.


This Scott Moffitt guy doesn't seem to be doing much better. Is he new? Cause I've never heard of him before E3.

[broodwars]

This Scott Moffitt guy doesn't seem to be doing much better. Is he new? Cause I've never heard of him before E3.

I thought the guy was pretty decent at that 3DS Conference.  When he was at at his best, he sounded natural, like a guy I'd want to talk to (rather than Reggie's Shatner-esque stilted and fake-sounding delivery).  The one mistake he made was that he was obviously nervous up on stage, and I think experience will fix that.  I didn't get that feeling of constant condescension and arrogance from him that I continually get from Reggie every time he does an interview or press conference.  He just right now doesn't have the stage presence that Reggie does...yet.

[TJ Spyke]

Reggie makes what he thinks are the best business decisions, and overall he has done a good job.

Scott Moffitt joined Nintendo in May 2011.

[Adrock]

Alright, feel free to tell me how announcing those two games "too early" "bit them in the ass", because both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess were incredibly successful games.  I'm struggling to think of a game that they announced long before it was ready and then bombed when it finally released because it didn't live up to expectations.

I didn't say they weren't successful or that they bombed. How did you come to that conclusion? Stop putting words in my mouth. Nintendo gets **** for delaying games all the time. I get it even if I don't agree with it. Continually delaying a product greatly affects the way everyone from consumers to investors to retailers and to the media view the way you do business. It makes you look bad even if you're just trying to release the best product possible. I'm glad Nintendo delays for quality control but not everyone sees it that way. They see delays as broken promises and an empty release schedule. By announcing a game and sticking to a release date, you avoid all of that bad press. Look at Donkey Kong Country Returns. Announced at E3, released in November of that same year. No fuss, no muss.

[Ian Sane]

Well, what is more damaging?  People being upset that a game is delayed or assuming that your system has little for it because not many games have been announced?

A delay is annoying but I doubt it has lost many sales.  It's more of a "ah dang it" kind of thing.  But if someone thinks that your new system doesn't have much and writes it off, that could affect sales.  How much do you pay attention to consoles you don't own or products you have no intention of buying?  Anyone who thinks "the Wii U? Meh" is potentially gone.  Why would they pay attention to any new developments if they've already written it off?  It would take some major exposure that no one can avoid to get it back on their radar.  Once you've lost their interest they won't specifically look anymore, you'll have to catch their attention some other way.

[Adrock]

Well, what is more damaging?  People being upset that a game is delayed or assuming that your system has little for it because not many games have been announced?

I'm not defending that lack of announced titles. Rather, I'm defending the concept of holding off on announcing titles until they're ready to be released within a reasonable amount of time. This isn't just Nintendo; this goes for every company. Look at Capcom. We heard about DMC forever ago and it got delayed again. On the flip side, we heard about Resident Evil 6 in January and Capcom even moved the release date forward an entire month. Which do you prefer?

You never run into the problem of announcing delays if you just wait until games are further along before announcing that they exist and are soon to be released. That way the console always has a steady stream of titles for people to look forward to. Nintendo hasn't done the best job with that. I won't even begin to try to defend that because they haven't. I don't know how they decide when to announce what.