Topic: Episode 302: The Pack-In Police

[Fiendlord_Timmay]

I really don't see it as being similar to Zelda in the slightest, and I feel that the story is WAAAAYYY overrated, but for what it is, I found it excellent.

Came here to post this. SotC is not really anything like Zelda. It's basically a boss rush in which each boss is a platforming puzzle. People say it's like Zelda because LOL U HAZ A HOERS AND A SWOERD AND A BOW ITS JUST LIEK ZELDA OMG!11!1 !

It reminds me a lot of Braid (or vice versa, I suppose). While I couldn't care less about the artistic aspects of either game, they both have really solid and rewarding puzzle platforming underneath their pretentious skin. Neither game is fun if you spoil yourself on the solution. Why? Because they're puzzle games.

SotC is as much like LoZ as Braid is like Mario.

[Jonnyboy117]

Thanks for the feedback, Resetti. I won't ever argue against a charge that we're long-winded -- it's an inevitable syndrome of doing the podcast for so long. Greg had a good ear for trimming us all down a bit, and Guillaume is probably more forgiving right now. Give him time. This is a subtle art, and because he was a fan before joining the show, he may be naturally inclined to just let us ramble for longer than is ideal. This also comes back to me as a host, because it's my job to keep things moving. I've learned to rarely intervene because I'd become so accustomed to Greg helping to pace the episodes in post-production. So this is an area where I've tried to be more proactive since our new editor came onboard, but I could do better and will keep trying.


As for the monologue effect, I think you're correct in thinking this is caused by the Wii's death spiral. We rarely play the same games at the same time anymore, outside of planned features like RetroActive. I always try to interject with questions and comments, and I think there is more back-and-forth than you're giving us credit for. The over-editing theory is off the mark. Spacing out cross-talk doesn't diminish interaction between people on the show; it just makes that interaction more intelligible to the listener. It's not like Guillaume hears us arguing/joking/etc. and just cuts out that part because it's hard to hear. He carefully spreads out the tracks so you can hear what each person is saying. It's a very time-intensive process, but the results are totally worthwhile. It's the best substitute for natural body/vocal clues that you can only get from an in-person roundtable with zero latency. Having mixed and edited quite a bit of Skype audio myself, I can assure you that untampered cross-talk is very confusing and hard to follow, especially if we're having a legitimate discussion and not just goofing around or laughing over each other. Guillaume does a stellar job with this and deserves a lot of credit, especially for this part of the job. It's a pain in the ass when editing DMP, and that's only two tracks -- with four, there is much more cross-talk, and it's more difficult to clean up.

[Pixelated Pixies]

The over-editing theory is off the mark. Spacing out cross-talk doesn't diminish interaction between people on the show; it just makes that interaction more intelligible to the listener. It's not like Guillaume hears us arguing/joking/etc. and just cuts out that part because it's hard to hear. He carefully spreads out the tracks so you can hear what each person is saying. It's a very time-intensive process, but the results are totally worthwhile. It's the best substitute for natural body/vocal clues that you can only get from an in-person roundtable with zero latency.

Hear, hear. That's the one things about RFN that continues to amaze me; that the discussions and debates sound so natural. When I first started listening to RFN I thought you guys were all in the same room. It was only months and months later (due to some comment made by someone on the podcast) that I realised you were all in different places, lol.
 
Personally, I think the way that RFN is put together also has it's benefits. I like the fact that members of the podcast are able to talk about a game or subject at length without being interrupted every 2 seconds. It really allows the listener to relax and get carried along. Some other podcasts that I have listened to, like Rebel FM and Weekend Confirmed, are always a little awkward to listen to for me because people are constantly jumping in to correct other people's statements or disagree with this point or that point. On RFN the members of the podcast will disagree and debate but (at least on the listener's end) they're not always interrupting or speaking over each other in order to do it. Much of that I'm sure is down to the RFN crew being a polite group of guys, but I'm sure it also has something to do with Greg and Gui's editing.

[ResettisCousin]

Thanks for the reply, Mr Metts. Subjectively, I find the NWR-sound sterile but yes, it _is_ highly intelligible. Maybe I'm comparing to podcasts with only two or three (versus four) members where the cross talk issue is smaller.

Huge respect to the podcast for being regular and having stellar (relatively-speaking, and not counting Zach M on other podcasts, though his content more than makes up for his fidelity) audio quality and levels.

[Do_What]

I think RFN is maybe the best put together podcast I've listened to. I appreciate how much work goes into it. I've done it before, there are many easier ways to edit a show, but the results usually aren't as good.
I agree with the idea that each person talking about their own games has big benefits. I like getting one person's idea on a game without constant interruption. It's nice to hear almost complete thoughts on a game. Makes it feels a lot less like 4 dicks in a jar.

[Pandareus]

I think I'm doing an alright job for an amateur, especially given the limited amount of time and energy I can afford to put into this. I mean, I started out by watching tutorials on youtube showing how to cut and paste in Audacity... A little bit of training from Greg helped me reach the next level, but I'm still an amateur, doing this in my free time. And freeing my time to do this.

Thanks for the feedback, however. I value it, it is important if I want to keep improving.

[Plugabugz]

I think I'm doing an alright job for an amateur, especially given the limited amount of time and energy I can afford to put into this. I mean, I started out by watching tutorials on youtube showing how to cut and paste in Audacity... A little bit of training from Greg helped me reach the next level, but I'm still an amateur, doing this in my free time. And freeing my time to do this.

Thanks for the feedback, however. I value it, it is important if I want to keep improving.

Greg is the Celine Dion of podcasting. Yes i said it.

Given you learned FROM HIM i have no concerns at all. Greg prefers to take the axe down a little sooner, but thats preference. I'm happy with things.

[Ceric]

Rumor has it though that all those Connectivity and RFN Editors are vicious

[Fjurbanski]

If Nintendoland isn't packed in, I'm not going to buy it. Unless something within me drastically changes between now and November, I'll probably never end up even playing the game, let alone purchasing it. From what I've seen the game's value sits in a really weird place. I wouldn't buy it, maybe $5-10 (maybe not), but if it were free... I can easily imagine myself spending plenty of time with it and enjoying myself.


Personally I think it was unwise for Nintendo to even make it in the first place. I get it. It's the new Wii Sports, a proof of concept for the Wii U. But wouldn't it be smarter to put those ideas into something that people actually want to buy? Or into a more high-profile game?


Think about the Wii. While it had plenty of good games, the only game that makes me say, "This is why Nintendo made this controller, and I'm glad they did." Is Skyward Sword. The real "ah-ha" moment for motion controls came too late for most people to care anymore.


I don't think Nintendo should focus on making the Wii U's version of Wii Sports. They should at least attempt to make the Wii U's version of Skyward Sword (and no, I don't mean that it has to be a Zelda game. I mean it should be a AAA, high-profile game, rather than a collection of mini-games).


I'm going to get a Wii U. Every Nintendo console has been worth buying, and I can definitely see the potential of an optional touchscreen (and with games like ZombiU, it's clear that certain developers can see the potential as well). However, by not packing in Nintendoland, I think Nintendo is missing a big opportunity.

[Glad0s]

I think I'm doing an alright job for an amateur, especially given the limited amount of time and energy I can afford to put into this. I mean, I started out by watching tutorials on youtube showing how to cut and paste in Audacity... A little bit of training from Greg helped me reach the next level, but I'm still an amateur, doing this in my free time. And freeing my time to do this.

Thanks for the feedback, however. I value it, it is important if I want to keep improving.

If you ask me, you're doing fine. I detect no difference between your and Greg's editing. Seriously.

[TJ Spyke]

I miss the "outtakes" at the end of the episode. Greg would usually be like a minute of extra audio on at the end of the episode featuring someone messing up while recording the show. Otherwise, great job so far.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Think about the Wii. While it had plenty of good games, the only game that makes me say, "This is why Nintendo made this controller, and I'm glad they did." Is Skyward Sword. The real "ah-ha" moment for motion controls came too late for most people to care anymore.

When I played Skyward Sword I also had revelatory experience, but I drew very different conclusions. For the longest time I thought that all the Wii needed was for someone to take motion controls and implement them intelligently in a triple A game made for core gamers. What I realised when I played Skyward Sword was that the motion controls are fun for games like Wii Sports, but regardless of the fidelity I just don't need or want them in my traditional action/adventure games.
 
I guess you could say Skyward Sword made me think 'This is why Nintendo made this controller, and it finally works!...But no thanks'.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I miss the "outtakes" at the end of the episode. Greg would usually be like a minute of extra audio on at the end of the episode featuring someone messing up while recording the show. Otherwise, great job so far.

There was one either last week or the week before that was friggin' hilarious. I really felt the frustration, lol.

[Fjurbanski]

When I played Skyward Sword I also had revelatory experience, but I drew very different conclusions. For the longest time I thought that all the Wii needed was for someone to take motion controls and implement them intelligently in a triple A game made for core gamers. What I realised when I played Skyward Sword was that the motion controls are fun for games like Wii Sports, but regardless of the fidelity I just don't need or want them in my traditional action/adventure games.
 
I guess you could say Skyward Sword made me think 'This is why Nintendo made this controller, and it finally works!...But no thanks'.

Makes sense. Even the best implementation of motion controls won't necessarily legitimize them for everyone.


I just hope Nintendo brings the best implementations of the Wii U gamepad early in the consoles life, rather than late. I've got no proof, obviously, but I think that will simply encourage more developers to support and bring interesting games to the Wii U at a steady rate. Something that I don't think Nintendoland can do.

[Pandareus]

I miss the "outtakes" at the end of the episode. Greg would usually be like a minute of extra audio on at the end of the episode featuring someone messing up while recording the show. Otherwise, great job so far.

I put outtakes for, like the last three shows before this one.

[llaffer]

I've only listened to the first part of the show up through James' games for the week.  I found it funny regarding his comments towards Dust, especially the part of the "squeeky flying squirrel thing".  The voice of Fidget is a friend of mine (also did the voice of Ms. Fortune in Skullgirls).

Someone posted this video snipit of Dust and Fidget talking to a merchant in the game.  May be minor spoilers, but I found it pretty funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdJ-puzmxbc

[Crimm]

To be honest, we've had less takes to out. At least, less nuclear ones.

Out problems have been more based around a lack of audio to edit.

[Hey Einstein!]

Hey Pixie, how ever did you get past the first half of A Game of Thrones? Makes Dune seem like a page turner.

[geo]

Hey Pixie, how ever did you get past the first half of A Game of Thrones? Makes Dune seem like a page turner.

I just finished all of them myself, but over books on tape during my commute.  I don't know how I would have done it otherwise.  Seriously long winded, but excellent story and character development.  You absolutely feel like all of these are real people.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Hey Pixie, how ever did you get past the first half of A Game of Thrones? Makes Dune seem like a page turner.

I just finished all of them myself, but over books on tape during my commute.  I don't know how I would have done it otherwise.  Seriously long winded, but excellent story and character development.  You absolutely feel like all of these are real people.

As long winded and repetitive as the series becomes I actually found the first three books to be excellent page turners. I have a tendency to really burn through stuff that I'm enjoying (don't even ask me about my Deadwood or The Wire marathons). By the time I got to 'A Feast for Crows' though even I was beginning to find the series a little tiresome. However, by that point I was in too deep and needed to see it through to the end. 'A Dance with Dragons' was a definite improvement over 'Feast', reintroducing my favourite characters helped, but it was still a little slow to get moving. The characters and story are totally worth it though for those who can deal with the slow pacing.

[Stann]

Hey Pixie, how ever did you get past the first half of A Game of Thrones? Makes Dune seem like a page turner.

I just finished all of them myself, but over books on tape during my commute.  I don't know how I would have done it otherwise.  Seriously long winded, but excellent story and character development.  You absolutely feel like all of these are real people.

As long winded and repetitive as the series becomes I actually found the first three books to be excellent page turners. I have a tendency to really burn through stuff that I'm enjoying (don't even ask me about my Deadwood or The Wire marathons). By the time I got to 'A Feast for Crows' though even I was beginning to find the series a little tiresome. However, by that point I was in too deep and needed to see it through to the end. 'A Dance with Dragons' was a definite improvement over 'Feast', reintroducing my favourite characters helped, but it was still a little slow to get moving. The characters and story are totally worth it though for those who can deal with the slow pacing.

Second this for true facts.

Except I didn't bother finishing Dance, lol. The whole series just started to drag, and I couldn't take it anymore. Then again, I read all of the Wheel of Time so I dunno, apparently that book series was slow paced as well.

[Hey Einstein!]

Well looky here, we've gone off on a Fire and Ice tangent. That's nice.


I just finished A Game of Thrones and by the final 3rd third I was swept up in the whole thing. But I'm not sure the slog getting through the first half was worth it. The end had me far more invested in reading the next book than I had expected to be but I'm not sure it's for me as a series. Also, there were times when I was very uncomfortable with what I felt was quite a sexist overtone. I'm not talking about the role of woman in the cultures of the fictional universe, but the descriptions and characterization as a whole. There are some fantastically strong women but they felt very objectified to me. Do I get my cookie now?


ANYHOO..... as much as I support the concept of freedom of speech and listener feedback, I think ResettisCousin posts are plain rude and I hope the RFN team don't take them to heart. RFN is the best video game podcast I have heard. Most professional gaming podcasts I've endured could do with a darn good edit and sound amateurish by comparison. New Business is my favourite section and could be the whole show and I would still be happy. By contrast I find the speculative nature of listener mail a bit pointless some times, but hats off to the RFN lot because they can be very insightful. I prefer it when the questions stick to asking for comment on news items or insight into gaming habits over straight out predicting the future. But I guess it is up to us to send in decent questions.


Keep up the good work boys!

[Ceric]

Hey Pixie, how ever did you get past the first half of A Game of Thrones? Makes Dune seem like a page turner.

I just finished all of them myself, but over books on tape during my commute.  I don't know how I would have done it otherwise.  Seriously long winded, but excellent story and character development.  You absolutely feel like all of these are real people.

As long winded and repetitive as the series becomes I actually found the first three books to be excellent page turners. I have a tendency to really burn through stuff that I'm enjoying (don't even ask me about my Deadwood or The Wire marathons). By the time I got to 'A Feast for Crows' though even I was beginning to find the series a little tiresome. However, by that point I was in too deep and needed to see it through to the end. 'A Dance with Dragons' was a definite improvement over 'Feast', reintroducing my favourite characters helped, but it was still a little slow to get moving. The characters and story are totally worth it though for those who can deal with the slow pacing.

Second this for true facts.

Except I didn't bother finishing Dance, lol. The whole series just started to drag, and I couldn't take it anymore. Then again, I read all of the Wheel of Time so I dunno, apparently that book series was slow paced as well.

Wheel of time started good then whne the it got winded, Original Author dies, new one picks it up and takes the tone and pacing back to the original and the series picks up again.  Which remind me I need to read the last book if its out.

[Fatty The Hutt]

PS3 (PSN) games for Nintendo fans?
Joe Danger - its basically a platformer in many ways. Plus whimsical, good music, tight controls. Highly recommended.
Costume Quest-a breezy, whimsical RPG. I adore this game, wish it was longer.

[Stann]

As far as the job that Guillaume does for the show, I think he does a bang up job. I just started listening to the podcast recently, and over the past month I've listened to all of 200-300. I can't tell a difference between the editing quality.

I think some people are just upset that Greg is gone. I can feel that. He was my favourite co-host.