Topic: Miyamoto soundbites on IGN

[nemo_83]

I like to think of most real games as adventure games, even if they play like Pikmin; the game design is still based on Zelda's or Mario's adventure.  I tried to get across my point of some games you play and some games you play with; but I guess I was too subtle.  I should have been more pointed and compared some of these games you play with rather than play to toys.  Yes, we're back around to arguing over whether or not Nintendo is teh tiku tiku tiku! .  Is Nintendo a toy company or are they serious about making serious games for serious gamers?  It has been long strugle up hill for the company with its image thus far and just as it seemed that label was dying Nintendo starts in on all this simple short games crap shooting themselves in the face.  A game can be played for short periods of time without the overall meat of the game being short.  It only requires accessability.  Games can be played with, but at some point you need to be able to play the game.  



Original games do not have to be quirky.  A game can tell a story and be original.  There are only really two or three stories out there in the whole of the world and they've been around for as long as we could communicate our thoughts to one another and thus could recall stories to tell to others.  Usually its good vs evil.  For example, Tolkein didn't sit down to write Lord of the Rings and think to himself I better keep this brief so the dumb kids will take the time to read it.  He wrote it for the ages, for the many numbers of people who would read it long after he had died.  Its called art.  Its called passion and emotion.  You know, when someone has something important to say so they sit down and write an epic poem or a novel.  There seem to be too few many people in the world these days who have something to say.  You see, it is not the destination (good vs evil) that matters.  What makes a story individual is the journey.

To tell you the truth I find it increasingly harder to make short stories as I discover more about writting.  Think of poetry; how all the information, the facts and images are crammed into fourteen lines and illustrate for you a story that has to be as meaningful as a great as any short short story or nine hundred page novel.  These micro games to me though do not represent the gaming equivalent of poetry.  These micro games seem more like pornography or music videos (that is if pornography and music videos are two seperate things).  I am still searching for the right language, the right analogy to simply describe what I feel.

You could say Zelda is an epic novel and literary masterpiece.  You could say Ico is a short story, my favorite short short is William Faulkner's "A Rose for Emily" (so it lacks the length of delivery, a short story can be great; much better than seven hundred pages of dribble).  If you're looking for poetry's heir in games then you need look no further than Captain Communist himself decked out in red.  Alas, poetry still proves to be the most difficult to create.

The sad thing is that most of the games out there are pulp garbage, more closely related to an episode of Dukes of Hazard than Allen Ginsberg.

[OptimusPrime]

creating new niche markets in gaming market= more marketshare
owning those new niche markets= more profit and more marketshare
To create those niche markets you have to make new types of genres= new concepts to work and improve on= gamemarket expanding and enriching
new genres= new gaming experciences= irressistable for every serious gamer out there (if they're good)

So what are the complaints again? No really...i'm only seeing win-win situations here (i have to note i'm a "the glass is half-full" kind of person). I'm seeing it this way. EAD will probably pump out a new game and the classic franchises and Nintendo will probably be supporting other teams who make *shock* new franchises....yaaaaay! with the support of Nintendo (you know having some guys of EAD working at your joint and all).

We only hear mumblings, we only hear some vague stuff, nothing solid, nothing official. I'm sensing fear of the unknown here and the people who do that as history has proven are almost always wrong.

[couchmonkey]

If Nintendo's recent microgames are the videogame equivalent of pornography, call me an addict.  I do believe Nintendo has summed up all that it needed to in Yoshi's Touch n' Go and Wario Ware.  They are the opposite of recent 3D platforming epics: there's not a lot of extra or unecessary content in the game.

Now those unecessary embelishments can make the game experience better, and make it last longer, which is theoretically better in gaming, although perhaps maximum pleasure is the best goal a videogame can achieve.  In that case, maybe that is more like porn than art!  Ha ha, this is getting too rhetorical.  I'm not too worried about anything Miyamoto says, he's just philosophizing, and I believe we'll see plenty of gamer's games on the next console.

[Ian Sane]

"These micro games seem more like pornography or music videos"

I think they're more like pop songs.  Like Nintendo is pulling a Genesis (the band not the console), going from an innovative progressive rock band to a cliche inoffensive pop band.   With either analogy though it's more or less Nintendo selling out their real fans to attract a new market.  I think that's what ultimately annoys me about the situation.  I stick with Nintendo through some pretty tough times and put up with a lot of crap in hope that they will someday make a comeback.  As a reward for my loyality Nintendo more-or-less gives up on reclaiming the top spot and then focuses on a different target market.  I view this focus on non-games as a betrayal of sorts.  I don't appreciate my loyality being taken for granted.

[jasonditz]

You're right... to prove they appreciate their loyal customers they should do something. Maybe, for example, they could release another 3D Legend of Zelda game with amazing graphics, and a new 2D Mario title.

Oh... wait...

[nemo_83]

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Originally posted by: jasonditz
You're right... to prove they appreciate their loyal customers they should do something. Maybe, for example, they could release another 3D Legend of Zelda game with amazing graphics, and a new 2D Mario title.

Oh... wait...

See, that is part of the problem.  Too little, too late.  Its been 15 years since a 2d Mario Bros.  I'm all hyped for it, can't wait, but its still not the console sequel I've been waiting for; its a DS game.  

Nintendo promised a realisticly styled Zelda years ago and is just now releasing it.  I liked the cel shaded Zelda, but looking back strategic wise I think perhaps the experimental asthetics should have been saved for the second game on Cube.  Still I can't wait for the new Zelda.

Yet those are only two games.  It is not enough.  I wanted more by now; I was expecting Cube to have many more original and exclusive IPs than it did.  Mario and Zelda are very important to me, without them I would not game at all; noone would whether they realize it or not.  But for Nintendo to interest me with their new console they are going to have to create a new original epic IP independent of all their present universes.  I am not just looking for the next Mario or Zelda sequel from Nintendo; I am looking for the next Zelda or Mario from Nintendo.  And I have been looking for it for four years.

[Bill Aurion]

These micro games seem more like pornography or music videos

See, that is part of the problem. Too little, too late. Its been 15 years since a 2d Mario Bros. I'm all hyped for it, can't wait, but its still not the console sequel I've been waiting for; its a DS game.

Nintendo promised a realisticly styled Zelda years ago and is just now releasing it.

These statements are so unbelievably retarded that I just had to enter this filthy wretch of a whiners' orgy to comment on them...PARTICULARLY the Zelda one...Ninty didn't promise jackshit, I'm sorry you believed a TECHNICAL DEMO was a promise of a game in that style...

[RABicle]

13 Years. Super Mario Land 2 came out in 92. But oh no, your too weak to count handheld Mario games. You should be grateful your getting one at all, quit complaining.

Oh but then you carry on complaining about an alledged 'promise' of a realistic Zelda game. No such promsie ever existed, and if you liked Wind Waker why does it bother you. In fact why are you stilla sking for more new things if all you really want is for essentially an updated sequel. Besides, wasn't Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness and what may as well be a whole new IP in Metroid Prime enough for you this generation? Do you want Nintendo to make another 4 new IPS and keep pumping out expansios to their current ones? You ungrateful weak dog. Get out!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Sony promised me a rubber ducky game years ago and I never got it WTF!??

>=U

[jasonditz]

Captain Olimar gave it his best... how often does a new Mario or a Link come along, once in a decade?

 

[Caillan]

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With either analogy though it's more or less Nintendo selling out their real fans to attract a new market.

Are you serious? You just need look at forums everywhere to see that the Wario Ware games are overwhelmingly popular among Nintendo fans. In this case you seem to be more of the odd one out.

To me, the Wario Ware games are like diamonds: gaming itself crystalised into a pure and tiny form. They have great gameplay and a crazy sort of 'atmosphere' or 'theme' which only makes them more enjoyable. That was extremely cheesey but you get what I mean.

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Nintendo promised a realisticly styled Zelda years ago and is just now releasing it.

They quite clearly said that it was only a tech demo.

Quote
I am not just looking for the next Mario or Zelda sequel from Nintendo; I am looking for the next Zelda or Mario from Nintendo. And I have been looking for it for four years.

That is a strange statement considering you started your post by saying that the new Super Mario Sequel is "too little too late". You know Nintendo cannot continuously make sequels to its franchises whilst developing new ones. Anyway, I think I see your point. Unless Metroid Prime 3 really is a big shake-up I think I'll be giving it a miss. I'd love to see more new stuff from Nintendo, but to be fair we've already got both Pikmin and Wario Ware this generation. As well as games like Jungle Beat which are very original. And soon we'll have Nintendogs. Plus the Revolution will have yet another one close to launch. In fact, you could probably say that they've had a bit of a turnaround and aren't doing so badly.  

[nemo_83]

The sequels I care about seeing on REV are Zelda, Mario, and Metroid.  I am sure there will be some sequels that might catch my attention with some fresh ideas using the new controller; but I am mostly concerned with seeing Nintendo's lineup on REV read more like Mario Bros, Legend of Zelda, Metroid, new epic game/heir apparent to Zelda or Metroid, and third party titles (hoping that means good third party games).  I don't want them to do every game under the sun.  They have backwards compatibility now, they don't have to make sequels to the Mario sports etc games.  I only want one Mario game.  That is the only Mario game I have cared about for years.  


I was just defending my point about how Zelda is too late to save the Cube when I brought up the Zelda video.  When a game is shown in an early form you expect it to change(look at the N64), but it is not often that games recieve the level of change the way WW did.  

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Look, MS and Sony are focusing on "bigger, bigger, bigger."  You don't see MS or Sony trying to promote "simple" games, both are trying to get things as jam-packed as hell so they have more bullet points.  That's all well and good to a point, but Nintendo has been around longer and can see the bigger picture.

Anyone remember how Nintendo came into power?  That's right, the industry got too damn full of itself and imploded, like a neutron star.  So how is Nintendo hedging its bets?  By showing investors and gamers that they understand bigger isn't always better.  I don't know how much money the fancy new Xbox and PS3 games announced cost to make, but I can guaruntee you more money is at least spent on art.  Now, how many more sales will it take to break even?  What kinds of risks can a publsher take with those odds?  Now imagine if people suddenly start buying fewer console games (it's happening in Japan!)?  UH OHS!  Publishers need a back-up plan!

I initially had a reaction similar to some here--perhaps the first time I became really worried that Nintendo was throwing out the game styles I enjoy.  I hate Wario Ware, didn't enjoy Animal Crossing, and couldn't care less for Electroplankton!  Then Bloodworth reminded me that this is the same Nintendo that is making the Twilight Princess and New Super Mario Bros.  We'll see epic games, but Nintendo also promises to push cheaper games and strange peripheral titles, unlike Microsoft and Sony.  Frankly that's a promise to third parties as much as it is to us, and they better keep it.  Heck, if shying away from 3 huge-budget teams = more classic sidescrolling and crazy  new games, sign me up!

[Pittbboi]

I’m just seeing Nintendo rest on its laurels when it comes to non-non-gamers. When it comes to capturing the non-gamer market, Nintendo is willing to take risks. We don’t see that when it tries to appeal to the rest of the market—it seems content to just throw us a new Mario or Zelda or a new Metroid, franchises that have been whored to high heaven this generation. Remember when info on the first Gamecube Metroid was released? Not only did it look like a technically outstanding game, many people were dying to play it simply because it had been so long since such a Metroid game was made. Since then, Nintendo has lost that latter market, and now there’s a new market of people who won’t play a new Metroid game because it’s everywhere and they’re tired of seeing it.

Don’t get me wrong, they’re all great games, but I just think Nintendo needs to adopt the same risk taking strategy with established genres as it does with niche games. When I say this I’m not asking for a new IP that’s basically Metroid with a different character, but a new experience, which Nintendo is capable of doing. With Metroid, Nintendo changed the way FPSs are played; they added to the genre. They can do it again with someone other than Metroid. Thinking they can’t is undermining the talent Nintendo has.

[nemo_83]

would anyone object to me making a seperate thread on the REV's original IP?  

[RABicle]

Yes. Damn too late.