Author Topic: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Quantum-Ant-Man-ia)  (Read 237084 times)

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Offline UncleBob

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #400 on: March 07, 2021, 11:43:50 AM »
Who did he attempt to murder?  Besides Wanda who was a very active threat?

I think he'd need to answer for the loss of Vision, but I can't really fault him for the chain of events.  Wanda was a huge threat, a huge unknown variable, and was actively endangering many lives.  Presumably, he had orders/authority to attempt to bring Vision back online (it's not like he was hiding what he was up to) and I'd think a super powered crazy person taking over an entire town and, later, a military base, is the exact kind of situation you'd want a Vision for. Keep in mind, at this point, Wanda already came out of the Hex and was all "**** you, **** you, and especially **** you, I'll do what I want."  She was a threat to be eliminated.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #401 on: March 07, 2021, 01:12:13 PM »
Hayward shoots at the kids (who he didn't know weren't "real") then kept shooting when Monica jumped in front of them.

He doctored footage of Wanda breaking into S.W.O.R.D. and stealing Vision's body so most of his actions on the show were predicated on a lie he created and perpetuated. Would he have gotten clearance to send that drone after Wanda if he didn't make her look like more of threat than she was at the time? That's attempted murder based on false pretenses. S.W.O.R.D. didn't have good intel when Hayward approved that strike, but he tried to brute force his way through that incident without doing the work I imagine they were sent there to do. That one lie subsequently made everything worse. If you're asking why he was arrested and treated as a bad guy, it's because of all the crimes he commits.


That is, of course, a separate point from why Wanda and Agatha aren't narratively arrested and treated as bad guys. First, Wanda is not arrested because she just flies away and has demonstrated the ability to literally disappear because magic. She is treated like a bad guy by everyone in Westview, and I presume the authorities are looking for her. I don't believe the show is trying to justify Wanda's actions because she hasn't faced any legal repercussions (yet). Then, as previously stated, no one knows Agatha did anything except for the people who won't corroborate that she did anything. I'm not sure if you consider that to be a dangling plot thread. For what it's worth, I don't.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #402 on: March 07, 2021, 03:13:26 PM »
lol Super Hans
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #403 on: March 07, 2021, 03:28:23 PM »
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Hayward shoots at the kids (who he didn't know weren't "real") then kept shooting when Monica jumped in front of them.

With Wanda televising the events, I don't think it's unreasonable for him to question if they exist.  That said, three superpowered individuals are squaring off against you and your men in defense of a crazy powerful witch that's been torturing a few thousand people over the past few weeks, I don't much care if they're kids or not.

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He doctored footage of Wanda breaking into S.W.O.R.D. and stealing Vision's body so most of his actions on the show were predicated on a lie he created and perpetuated. Would he have gotten clearance to send that drone after Wanda if he didn't make her look like more of threat than she was at the time?

Again, Wanda was torturing the entire town of Westview, to the point where they were begging for death.  Take her out.

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First, Wanda is not arrested because she just flies away and has demonstrated the ability to literally disappear because magic.

Monica has super powers as well.  Even a line "You know I can't just let you go, right?  These people deserve justice."  "Naw, fam, I got better things to do.  Peace out."

Instead, Monica's all "Oh, you were just sad.  I've been sad too.  Bye."

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Then, as previously stated, no one knows Agatha did anything except for the people who won't corroborate that she did anything.

Granted, we don't know what was/wasn't televised (I assumed the Agatha All Along reveal was televised, but I guess that could have just been for Wanda's viewing enjoyment.), but aside from that, Monica knows a large part of what Agatha was responsible for.  And she just lets her go as well.
 
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #404 on: March 07, 2021, 03:30:05 PM »
The lack of consequences - and Monica saying "i'd have done the same too!" - did begin to frustrate me after i let the episode sink in.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #405 on: March 07, 2021, 06:36:42 PM »
The lack of consequences - and Monica saying "i'd have done the same too!" - did begin to frustrate me after i let the episode sink in.

I think Scarlet Witch's self isolation is her personal sacrifice, but overall yes it was annoying.  The idea because she was a hero and we should root for her, her actions have must be justified was sad.  I would have liked more confrontation with the people she attacked.  Maybe even a physical altercation.  But the reality is at least Monica should have stood up to her.  Though this could be leading up to the Dark Avengers, or a more government controlled Avengers seeking out meta-humans and policing them...which could lead in to a phase 5 X-Men.  Basically having the world split into government sponsored and controlled heroes and then freelance secret heroes and finally mutants. 

Offline Adrock

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #406 on: March 07, 2021, 06:38:35 PM »
With Wanda televising the events, I don't think it's unreasonable for him to question if they exist.  That said, three superpowered individuals are squaring off against you and your men in defense of a crazy powerful witch that's been torturing a few thousand people over the past few weeks, I don't much care if they're kids or not.
Sure, but it's still something someone could reasonably be arrested for which it should be noted, can happen without being formally charged (and subsequently tried and sentenced). And even if you want to take attempted murder off the table, Hayward still committed a bunch of other crimes.
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Again, Wanda was torturing the entire town of Westview, to the point where they were begging for death.  Take her out.
Understood, and the point is Hayward most likely didn't need to do anything illegal. He was simply too impatient to do things the proper way. Hayward even admits this in the finale: "No one's going to care once I've eliminated Wanda Maximoff." Maybe? Your original questions were "What did Haywood do that ends up with him in cuffs anyway?" and "But Haywood is treated as the bad guy?" and the answer to both of those questions is because he kept breaking the law. Why he did so is immaterial as a legal matter. Tampering with evidence, for example, is still a crime and one that people regularly get arrested for and charged with. If you want to defend Hayward from a moral standpoint, I'm not here to argue that. From a legal standpoint? Yeah, he absolutely should be arrested and at least questioned. People can get arrested based on reasonable suspicion though the text shows Hayward actually committed several crimes (which would be probable cause, a legal standard of proof greater than reasonable suspicion).

That said, the end doesn't justify the means. Wanda committing crimes doesn't give Hayward license to commit his own crimes. Hayward had all the tools at his disposal to follow protocol and go through the proper channels yet he decided to take shortcuts that were unfortunately outside of what is allowed under the law. If you apply that same reasoning to any other situation, he would still be arrested.
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First, Wanda is not arrested because she just flies away and has demonstrated the ability to literally disappear because magic.

Monica has super powers as well.  Even a line "You know I can't just let you go, right?  These people deserve justice."  "Naw, fam, I got better things to do.  Peace out."

Instead, Monica's all "Oh, you were just sad.  I've been sad too.  Bye."
Contextually speaking, I feel like you quoted around the important bits so here's the full quote (emphasis is mine):
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That is, of course, a separate point from why Wanda and Agatha aren't narratively arrested and treated as bad guys. First, Wanda is not arrested because she just flies away and has demonstrated the ability to literally disappear because magic. She is treated like a bad guy by everyone in Westview, and I presume the authorities are looking for her. I don't believe the show is trying to justify Wanda's actions because she hasn't faced any legal repercussions (yet).
Narratively speaking, Wanda wasn't arrested because she flew away and no one could stop her. I think the text supports this. That isn't commentary on whether she should be arrested. To clarify, in my humble opinion, yeah, Wanda should be arrested for (at least) all the kidnapping and torture. I don't think anyone here was saying otherwise. I don't even think the show itself was suggesting otherwise.

To your point about Monica, if you're saying she should have at least tried to arrest Wanda, sure. I'm not arguing that. Did Monica, as a S.W.O.R.D. agent, have the authority to arrest Wanda even if she wanted to? That isn't a rhetorical question. I don't know the answer to that. I was under the impression that the FBI arrested Hayward because Woo called for back up. It seemed like Wanda was long gone by the time the FBI got there. Maybe they would have tried to arrest Wanda? Who's to say.

Separately, I'm not sure Monica could have arrested Wanda unless Wanda surrendered. Are Monica's superpowers anywhere near Wanda's who seemingly became even more powerful? Wanda almost killed Thanos singlehandedly pre-power boost while Monica was only shown to phase through bullets and maybe display improved agility (i.e. superhero landing in episode 7).
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Granted, we don't know what was/wasn't televised (I assumed the Agatha All Along reveal was televised, but I guess that could have just been for Wanda's viewing enjoyment.), but aside from that, Monica knows a large part of what Agatha was responsible for.  And she just lets her go as well.
I thought "Agatha All Along" was for us (the real world audience), and Wanda's show effectively ended when Agatha trapped Wanda in the basement. Then, in the next episode, there was that line about runes and only the witch who cast the spell can use her power there, suggesting Wanda couldn't be broadcasting because she was cut off from using her powers.

Regardless, yes, Monica is one of the people who won't corroborate what Agatha did which is why Agatha wasn't arrested strictly from a narrative perspective. That doesn't mean she shouldn't have been arrested. A short list of Agatha's crimes specifically in Westview (or I suppose, technically Eastview) include but aren't limited to destruction of property, reckless endangerment, kidnapping, assault and battery, and a case can probably be made for aiding and abetting. If you're implying Monica isn't performing her duties as a S.W.O.R.D. agent, again, I'm not here to argue that.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 07:27:10 PM by Adrock »

Offline UncleBob

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #407 on: March 07, 2021, 07:26:26 PM »
Two quick things:

Lying, in and of itself, isn't a crime.  Government officials lie without repercussions all the time. Like, presidents even.  Nothing Hayward did was much worse than Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. using the tesseract to build weapons and not being upfront about it.  I'd have to rewatch the episode, but did he actually tamper with the footage or did he just show the bits of the footage that played with the story he was telling?

He's not a great guy, for sure.  I just don't really see them having enough evidence to take him away on-sight.  What's annoying is that he could have been developed into a pretty good quasi-protagonist.  He's just a regular guy who lived through five years of hell brought on by super powered individuals and aliens who is now tasked with a **** ton of stress trying to protect the world from something like that again.

Heck, Cap and Co. went to another universe and stole the mind stone from the US Government (okay, secret Hydra agents, but no one knew that and he stole it from the government).  Then, snuck onto a military base and stole the tesseract from the government.  We rooted for him, right?  Why is his crimes okay, but Hayward's is frowned upon.  Everything Hayward did was in response to the fear of another attack and here's Wanda attacking.

>Are Monica's superpowers anywhere near Wanda's

I mean, she was willing to try to take on Wanda earlier in the season.  Isn't that what the good guys do?  Like Steve Rogers refusing to stand down against theater bullies or Thanos?  Imagine Endgame if Cap had looked at Thanos and was like "Yeah, I don't stand a chance against you.  Peace out, man."  One line to establish that Monica wasn't okay with what Wanda did and that Wanda was now a criminal.  I disagree that the show didn't try to justify her actions because of the way Monica handled her at the end. 

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Offline Adrock

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #408 on: March 07, 2021, 08:56:13 PM »
Lying, in and of itself, isn't a crime.  Government officials lie without repercussions all the time. Like, presidents even.  Nothing Hayward did was much worse than Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. using the tesseract to build weapons and not being upfront about it.
Lying itself, no. The manner in which the lie was created, yes. We have laws against this.

Also, most of these characters in the MCU should have been arrested several times over from a legal standpoint. As the audience, we ignore this because we want to be entertained. For example, Daredevil beats the ever living **** out of people he has no business beating the **** out of, but damn if that stairwell scene wasn't badass. 🤷â€â™€ï¸
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I'd have to rewatch the episode, but did he actually tamper with the footage or did he just show the bits of the footage that played with the story he was telling?
The latter is tampering.
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He's not a great guy, for sure.  I just don't really see them having enough evidence to take him away on-sight.  What's annoying is that he could have been developed into a pretty good quasi-protagonist.  He's just a regular guy who lived through five years of hell brought on by super powered individuals and aliens who is now tasked with a **** ton of stress trying to protect the world from something like that again.
Fair though I don't think Hayward was arrested on sight. If I'm correct and he was arrested by the FBI, Woo can serve as a witness to have Hayward arrested on reasonable suspicion.
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I mean, she was willing to try to take on Wanda earlier in the season.  Isn't that what the good guys do?  Like Steve Rogers refusing to stand down against theater bullies or Thanos?  Imagine Endgame if Cap had looked at Thanos and was like "Yeah, I don't stand a chance against you.  Peace out, man."  One line to establish that Monica wasn't okay with what Wanda did and that Wanda was now a criminal.
I mean, Monica tried and was vastly unsuccessful. Also, it's fair for Monica to change her mind when presented with additional information. I don't believe she views Wanda as a criminal which should reflect poorly on her as one of the supposed good guys. That might be another Marvel hand-wave.
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I disagree that the show didn't try to justify her actions because of the way Monica handled her at the end.
Alternatively, the residents of Eastview who Wanda held captive confronted her in the town square and were decidedly not so willing to forgive and forget. Then, upon returning to the square, she got a lot of dirty looks from dozens of people who knew they couldn't do much more about it (were they are all just standing there the entire time, waiting for Wanda to come back?).

I viewed the show's stance more as "We want the audience to understand why Wanda did what she did, but that doesn't make it right, and other people suffered for it."
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 09:28:56 PM by Adrock »

Offline UncleBob

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #409 on: March 07, 2021, 09:38:21 PM »
>The latter is tampering.

Is it?  In a court of law, sure.  But if I'm showing my workmates a video where a guy drives a forklift into a parked vehicle to preach forklift safety, am I "tampering" if I don't show them the footage from right before showing we staged this?  Obviously, he lied and that's not good, but did he have any legal requirement to tell his subordinates the truth?

>Monica tried and was vastly unsuccessfuL

Monica stood her ground and stared her down until Agatha came along and pulled Wanda away.  We don't really know how that would have played out.  In fact, I don't really see why Agatha would have split up the fight unless she was concerned that Monica could have the potential to stop Wanda before Agatha got the chance to steal her power.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #410 on: March 08, 2021, 01:24:46 AM »
Is it?  In a court of law, sure.
Well, yeah. I thought that was the point considering this arm of the discussion began when you asked why Hayward was arrested. Moreover, Woo brings this up in the finale, and Hayward not only doesn't deny it but leans into its illegality.
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But if I'm showing my workmates a video where a guy drives a forklift into a parked vehicle to preach forklift safety, am I "tampering" if I don't show them the footage from right before showing we staged this?  Obviously, he lied and that's not good, but did he have any legal requirement to tell his subordinates the truth?
That isn't a 1:1 comparison. Creating a workplace safety video isn't tampering with evidence because there's no evidence to tamper with. By admission, it was staged so no one broke any laws by manipulating that footage. Tampering with evidence "is an act in which a person alters, conceals, falsifies, or destroys evidence with the intent to interfere with an investigation (usually) by a law-enforcement, governmental, or regulatory authority." That's from Wikipedia but the citation is the Duke Law Journal.

The briefing in episode 5 is not necessarily the problem here (I realized after that's probably what you were referring to in the other post). Hayward doesn't have to tell his subordinates anything, the truth or otherwise. However, as Acting Director of S.W.O.R.D, he presumably answers to someone. Since Hayward was already shown to be lying, the implication to me is he used the footage of Wanda that day to lie to his superiors in order to get approval for whatever he wanted to do. And if he had to lie, they probably told him no the first time. That's insubordination, disobeying a direct order etc. Not off to a great start.

That said, S.W.O.R.D was actively investigating Wanda/Westview. Right off the bat, Hayward interfered with his own agency's investigation by falsifying evidence. Then, he based an entire tactical strategy and intelligence operation in part on incorrect or at best, incomplete intel. His heart was in the right place, but he actually put the lives of both his subordinates and the residents of Westview/Eastview in even more danger by skipping steps. If someone died, a case could be made for charging Hayward with involuntary manslaughter.
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Monica stood her ground and stared her down until Agatha came along and pulled Wanda away.  We don't really know how that would have played out.  In fact, I don't really see why Agatha would have split up the fight unless she was concerned that Monica could have the potential to stop Wanda before Agatha got the chance to steal her power.
Agatha's ignorance of Monica's abilities isn't an indicator of Monica's strength.

Wanda could have killed Thanos so we probably do know how Wanda vs. Monica would play out. Wanda had Monica suspended in the air using magic. I thought it was implied the only reason Monica survived was because Wanda didn't want to kill her. Alright, fine, that's admittedly speculative. We don't know for sure how powerful Monica is based on the limited use of her powers. For the record, I'm on Team There-Are-Currently-Two-Maybe-Three-Characters-In-The-MCU-That-Can-Stand-A-Chance-Against-Wanda (i.e. Captain Marvel and maybe Dr. Strange and Vision). I imagine The Eternals will change this.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 02:39:21 AM by Adrock »

Offline UncleBob

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #411 on: March 08, 2021, 02:19:34 AM »
Yeah, I'm thinking of the briefing.  Do we ever see Hayward reporting to anyone above him?  He could have easily (and reasonably) been given the direction to revive Vision/Stop Wanda, whatever it takes.

As for Monica vs Wanda - I'm not saying she could take her, or that she even thought she might have a chance (I do think Agatha was concerned about it though).  I'm saying that Monica was willing to try and really had no reason to completely cast aside her willingness to go toe-to-toe with Wanda.  Wanda never really beat her, after all.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #412 on: March 08, 2021, 02:56:56 AM »
Yeah, I'm thinking of the briefing.  Do we ever see Hayward reporting to anyone above him?  He could have easily (and reasonably) been given the direction to revive Vision/Stop Wanda, whatever it takes.
No, but the writers did go out of their way to mention Hayward was Acting Director which seemed intentional as if he didn't have total authority of the investigation. Additionally, he states he was given authorization to share the footage of Wanda at S.W.O.R.D. headquarters. The briefing scene offers several critical details though it's hard to say how truthful Hayward was about certain things. I've rewatched it a few times. There's no real reason for him to lie about that footage unless he had something to gain from it. If his superiors gave him the direction to revive Vision/stop Wanda, he could have just said that, or simply not said anything because he doesn't answer to his subordinates.
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As for Monica vs Wanda - I'm not saying she could take her, or that she even thought she might have a chance (I do think Agatha was concerned about it though).  I'm saying that Monica was willing to try and really had no reason to completely cast aside her willingness to go toe-to-toe with Wanda.  Wanda never really beat her, after all.
I don't necessarily disagree with this. I imagine being suspended in mid-air with magic would give most people second thoughts. Still, like I said earlier, this might be more Marvel hand-waving.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #413 on: March 08, 2021, 05:25:05 PM »
I feel Hayward and SHIELD was supposed to be shown as an evil SHIELD just like in The Winter Soldier turned SHIELD evil.  The organization isn't evil, but it was filled with a "renegade" leader that is making choices that isn't up to him to make. 

The story tried to show that perhaps Hayward isn't supposed to have Vision, and the experiments to bring him back online, isn't in his jurisdiction.  If that is the case then the whole project and operation to get Vision online is illegal.  Plus, you have him tampering with security tapes and lying about the kidnapping of the Vision's body as an reasoning to go out against Wanda. 

The problem is, not enough time was spent developing his motivation and how he was a villain...it turned into just I am the head of an evil organization so I must be evil. 

Offline nickmitch

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #414 on: March 09, 2021, 12:04:51 AM »
If SWORD in this universe is an agency of the US government, Hayward could at the very least be brought in for misappropriation of funds and/or appropriations law violations.  He told Wanda he was decommissioning Vision, assuming that's true, anything he secretly did to make the white Vision could've been a crime depending on how his funding was written.  He also lied to the FBI, who was involved in the case, and lying to the FBI (specifically) is a crime, as we all know.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #415 on: March 09, 2021, 10:52:39 PM »
I mean, he also wrongfully imprisoned an FBI agent, so that's another mark against him.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #416 on: March 09, 2021, 11:23:03 PM »
He detained an FBI agent that could be tampering with an ongoing mission.  It depends on which department has higher authority, honestly.  Since SWORD like SHIELD is kinda a secret organization they probably get to skirt that area with a gray area of authority.

In the end, he is an interesting villain which should come back again.  Marvel has done a pretty good job on having more relative villains of late and Hayward, Agentha, Thanos, Zemo, Loki, Killmonger, and now I will put Wanda are villains that have a more complex nature than just I want to destroy the world.  That said, Marvel hasn't done a great fully writing their motivations and exploring their complex characters. 

Wanda is now up their with Captain America and Iron Man as being the more complex and intricately portrayed heroes.  So WandaVision has accomplished that, but overall I do think the series did not really land the landing so to speak.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #417 on: March 09, 2021, 11:33:19 PM »
I agree the finale was kinda weak.
I'm not really sure how you stick the landing so to speak, but I'm kinda glad they didn't do the deep dive with Mephisto and all that just yet (assuming that's where they head). Give us that slow drip,

Although I do wonder if maybe aspects of the show were trimmed when WandaVision came out first, and Doctor Strange was delayed till.... next year?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 12:48:43 AM by BlackNMild2k1 »

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #418 on: March 10, 2021, 06:14:46 PM »
Weird, I've read two different quotes from WandaVision creators that contradict each other. One claimed that they didn't want to jerk around fans too much with fake outs (but Fak-ietro) and another was quoted as stating they couldn't have done the fake Pietro plot without having FoX-Men actor on board, which feels like it was an intentional fake-out. Honestly I'm a little irritated with the landing of the series. There are red herrings, but we got more red herrings than actual plot reveals it feels and the things they teased just feel off to be left as false leads.

I still enjoyed the episode and show as a whole, but even in the high of the end credits and teaser scene the series felt a little hollow to me. Only thing making me not as down on it is the MCU grace of knowing we'll pick up some of these plot points and some things that felt missing can be addressed later.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #419 on: March 11, 2021, 12:06:57 AM »
To be honest, I think the Mephisto predictions were kinda over-reacting to a mild joke. Agness was just quipping that the bitchy lady was kind of a bitch, but the timing with the stained glass in the Loki trailer got people heavily speculating. 

Everyone seemed to be waiting for the big reveal, but the big reveal is Wanda herself.  She's one of the most power characters in comics, capable of bending all of reality.  She started out in the MCU giving people nightmares.  As a "Scarlet Witch" origin story, I think this worked pretty well.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #420 on: March 11, 2021, 05:20:42 AM »
To be honest, I think the Mephisto predictions were kinda over-reacting to a mild joke. Agness was just quipping that the bitchy lady was kind of a bitch, but the timing with the stained glass in the Loki trailer got people heavily speculating. 

Everyone seemed to be waiting for the big reveal, but the big reveal is Wanda herself.  She's one of the most power characters in comics, capable of bending all of reality.  She started out in the MCU giving people nightmares.  As a "Scarlet Witch" origin story, I think this worked pretty well.

But see this isn't really a big reveal because the whole story is about Wanda doing this stuff.  Even by Episode 5 we know that it is all Wanda...nothing is surprising or shocking.  Even the Agnes reveal turns out to be a triple fake out because it "Wasn't her all along" it was still just Wanda all along. 

There was nothing...and if you are going to do an show only about Wanda you should have a bigger shocking Wanda like moment to emphasize what this chaos magic means.  They really should of had a no more mutants like surprise.  It didn't have to be crazy big, but it should have been SOMETHING. 

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #421 on: March 11, 2021, 12:09:38 PM »
They did tease all sorts of stuff in show though.
Like Grim Reaper, The Whizzer, Mephisto, and many other little things I missed I'm sure I wasn't aware of, and that's why there was so many speculations and expectations of things being bigger through an unseen outside influence.

Also the Agatha All Along was a slight misdirection, as she wasn't responsible for everything, she was just fully aware and influencing others and events from within the bubble. So "Agnes"  was really Agatha All Along.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #422 on: March 11, 2021, 03:24:40 PM »
Agatha was the one messing up things and throwing Wanda for a loop, especially with Fietro.  But I think Agatha All Along was done for the catchy song.

And maybe Wanda wasn't really a big "reveal" so much as it was an arc depicting her massive power up. Her character has fundamentally changed from "IDK, telekinesis and nightmares??" to full blown magic user. She was clearly more powerful than Thanos before, but got out matched by Agatha, only to level up to a class beyond that. Wanda just looks super powerful going forward, and I'm excited to see where they go from here with her.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #423 on: March 12, 2021, 02:03:51 AM »
It was Agatha All Along - Animal Crossing Version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ie5hgawBKM




Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
« Reply #424 on: March 12, 2021, 06:06:28 PM »
It was Agatha All Along - Animal Crossing Version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ie5hgawBKM


That is crazy impressive.