Print Page - Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
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Community Forums => General Chat => Movies & TV => Topic started by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 12, 2017, 01:07:36 PM
Title: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 12, 2017, 01:07:36 PM
and once again, the Simpsons called it.... (https://i.imgur.com/eO5JyiH.png)
Announcement expected on Thursday https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/12/fox-disney-on-glide-path-for-thursday-deal-announcement-sources.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/12/fox-disney-on-glide-path-for-thursday-deal-announcement-sources.html)
But it appears Disney is practically done hammering out the details with FOX over an acquisition of a majority of it's Movie, TV assets and all their Regional Sports channels.
This deal DOES NOT include: FOX News, FOX Sports 1 or 2, nor their National Broadcast station FOX (ch2 around here)
From what I've read they will be acquiring the following: - 21st Century Fox (IP holders of The Simpsons, Aliens, Predator, X-Men (& F4?), and distribution for Avatar and A New Hope, among MANY, MANY other shows an movies) - FX/FXX cable channels - National Geographic Channel - All Regional Sports Channels (i.e. Fox Sports Boston, Fox Sports Detroit) - An additional 30% stake in HULU (increasing Disney's share up to 60%) - 40% Stake in SkyTV (big deal over in Europe) with the bid to also take full 100% control -there's another Euro/Aus company caught up in the deal... I'll have to edit it in later if it comes to me - And all of FOX's debts
The entire deal was speculated to be worth about $60 Billion and would be mostly completed through a stock trade which would give the Murdochs roughly about 5% of Disney while all the 21st Century Fox stock holders would trade out the remainder of their stock which I think including the Murdochs share was roughly 25% of Disney stock
I don't know how much of all that any of you care about, but this means that potentially Disney has just brought home the X-Men (& Deadpool) along with the Fantastic Four for Marvel Studios to play with.
Some may be worried that some of the upcoming X-Men movies might be cancelled or that we may never see some of them since they are rated R, but it's also reported that 21 Century Film/TV will remain autonomous like Marvel and Lucasfilm and Pixar, so they could still be releasing TV shows and movies under the 21st Century banner that Disney doesn't want directly under their own.
So we could still get the sequel to Logan, and a Deadpool 3 and a follow up to New Mutants, and maybe X-Force and all that depending on how Marvel Studios wants to handle the X-Men going forward past projects already in production (such as Dark Phoenix, which is supposedly taking place around the same time in history and also using Skrulls like the movie Captain Marvel)
this deal also gives Disney back the Star Wars: A New Hope (ep4) which could mean new OT untouched at some point, assuming it still exist. I know some SW fans will love that.
It also gives Disney distribution with Cameron directly for Avatar 2, 3, and 4 which pairs perfectly with their major investment in Avatar Land and Animal Kingdom.
Another interesting aspect of this whole deal is that Comcast was also seriously interesting in this deal for themselves, but the Murdochs never really entertained their offer. What's interesting about that is that Comcast owns NBC and Universal, who has the distribution right to The Hulk and I think Namor. But that's not all, Universal is also the owner of Universal Studios, who has exclusive rights to Marvel characters in theme parks East of the Mississippi, meaning NO MARVEL at Disney World. With all this newly acquired IP, maybe Comcast will finally make a deal with Disney so that Disney can get their rights back and make Marvel whole again. I have no idea what Comcast would likely trade for, or what Disney would be willing to give up in exchange, but there plenty to deal with here.... and not just for Comcast, but for Sony who has Spider-Man rights, and to Paramount who holds rights to Indiana Jones.
Some of you may wonder what exactly is Disney supposed to do with all these Fox Properties, and what is gonna happen to my favorite shows that happen to com on FOX?
Well I imagine since FOX is keeping the FOX channel, all those same shows will still air on there, and 21 Century will continue to operate as normal (outside of maybe losing control of a few properties that belong to Marvel). There could be a nice shake up in who is heading all of TV as ABC hasn't been doing the best, but the guy that runs FX/FXX might be a difference maker.
and as far as what happens with all these shows? Well don't forget that Disney is making their own competitor to Netflix, and they will also by 60% majority stake holders in HULU, so whatever doesn't fit on the former (fam-friendly) will likely end up on the other.
What do you guys think about this deal happening?
p.s. I didn't even mention the fact that all that sports stuff is gonna make Disney a MAJOR provider of sports going forwards since all of that will get rebranded as ESPN stuff So this deal is pretty huge for Marvel, Lucasfilm, ESPN, possibly ABC as well as Disney as a whole.
p.s.s - and I didn't mention the comics and gaming side for Marvel at all.... Now Marvel can drop it's ban on Fantastic Four comics and creating NEW mutants for X-Men this will also allow merchandising dept to start producing X-Men and F4 toys (X-Men Hot Toys could look dope) and now all those Marvel games will be able to use X-Men and F4 characters again. - so whenever Capcom decides to bring MvC:I over to the Switch, I expect a FULL roster of characters.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men Coming home for X-Mas
Post by: broodwars on December 12, 2017, 01:31:31 PM
It won't be, but this acquisition should be blocked. There's already way too much of the entertainment market concentrated at Disney without adding Fox to it. We're getting close to an entertainment monopoly.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men Coming home for X-Mas
Post by: lolmonade on December 12, 2017, 01:57:24 PM
It won't be, but this acquisition should be blocked. There's already way too much of the entertainment market concentrated at Disney without adding Fox to it. We're getting close to an entertainment monopoly.
Seconded. I understand how badly people want the unification of all these properties that used to share the same universe, but with how Disney is already prone to strong-arm theaters to get the terms they want, i'm not sure I see good things coming out of this buy-out.
I've already made my comments on how I suspect Disney would affect the tone and nature of things like Logan and Deadpool already in the Marvel thread.
I also kind of think in terms of X-men, they might have missed the big opportunity with Wolverine crossed-over into other movies? I mean, obviously they are going to re-cast that character at some point, but Hugh Jacked-Man I still associate with the character too much, personally.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 12, 2017, 02:01:53 PM
This sale was either happening for Disney or for Comcast, not because they forced Fox to consider a sale, but because Fox wanted to sell so they could focus on other things.
I'd much rather Disney get it for many reasons. and this is just one tool for Disney to stay relevant in the long term, considering the war chest of potential rivals in Google, Amazon, Apple and Netflix, not to mention the threat they already have from potential bullies like Comcast (net neutrality) and the Time Warner/AT&T merger.
I can see the arguments for the negatives, but looking at the big picture and knowing FOX was selling regardless, I think Disney was the better outcome here. At least we know they are making previous acquisitions closer to whole again, and as far as the movie side of things, we should get quality out of those products.
I think the last thing any of us wanted was Comcast extending it's reach and not only controlling the content, but the access to it as well. This deal would have also put their hand in the European and Australian pies. Unfortunately for them, The Murdochs weren't interested in Comcast's stocks/money.
I am curious what Disney is gonna do with the Simpsons though... is that something they could trade or continue to lease to Universal in exchange for release of some distribution rights? Universal Studios I believe has a Simpsons Land or something, but Disney would really like it's Marvel rights back.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: lolmonade on December 12, 2017, 02:10:07 PM
This sale was either happening for Disney or for Comcast, not because they forced Fox to consider a sale, but because Fox wanted to sell so they could focus on other things.
To be fair, I really don't want Fox getting bought by either.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 12, 2017, 02:12:12 PM
This sale was either happening for Disney or for Comcast, not because they forced Fox to consider a sale, but because Fox wanted to sell so they could focus on other things.
To be fair, I really don't want Fox getting bought by either.
that's fine, but it was happening regardless. if Disney didn't jump on it first, Comcast would have outbid anyone else to get it.
I've already made my comments on how I suspect Disney would affect the tone and nature of things like Logan and Deadpool already in the Marvel thread.
I also kind of think in terms of X-men, they might have missed the big opportunity with Wolverine crossed-over into other movies? I mean, obviously they are going to re-cast that character at some point, but Hugh Jacked-Man I still associate with the character too much, personally.
Feige has already commented on the Rated R nature of Deadpool and is not against doing that in the MCU. It's just not something that fit anything he is currently working on. That's not to say that he couldn't reboot the X-Men outside of the MCU and keep running it under the 21st Century banner in association with Marvel Studios. Let them run adjacent to each other for a while... loosely connected like the Movies to TV show or something. And don't forget the Netflix Marvel shows are brutal and graphic in what they show, so it's not like Marvel or Disney is against R rated material in their MCU content. It just hasn't happened in a movie yet, as there hasn't been a good reason to.
Deadpool made a lot of money, I'm pretty sure they'll let it continue to do what it does, and Reynolds and company will have the superior advice of Feige to draw from going forward.
And Hugh Jackman already stated that he doesn't want to play Wolvie any more, and even though he's excited to see the character come to the MCU, he thinks his time for that character has already passed. That's not to say he wouldn't change his mind if they actually asked him, but I think it's more likely they have him cameo as someone else if at appear at all.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: lolmonade on December 12, 2017, 03:24:56 PM
Sure, I get it was going to happen with one or the other, does that mean I can't have an opinion that I don't like what's happening? The post was created to discuss all of this, I assume, not just to have confirmation bias and high-fiveing each other. What fun is a conversation if there's consensus?
I'd much rather Disney get it for many reasons. and this is just one tool for Disney to stay relevant in the long term, considering the war chest of potential rivals in Google, Amazon, Apple and Netflix, not to mention the threat they already have from potential bullies like Comcast (net neutrality) and the Time Warner/AT&T merger.
I don't really see how they need Fox to stay relevant - they are Coca-Cola in terms of how prevalent and spread they are within the world, and while that doesn't happen without effort, this particular buy-out resembles much more a straight-laced power grab for an ever growing piece of the market share pie than JUST a strategic buy-out to shore-up gaps in their properties catalog. They are confident enough in their own catalog and upcoming content that they're launching their own streaming service. I also don't see how they are an ally to Net Neutrality - if anything, i'd perceive them as not likely to take a public stance, but aware they can weather whatever fallout from Net Neutrality, which is VERY similar to the public comments Netflix has made as of late.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 12, 2017, 04:58:48 PM
I'm sure as a future online content provider (like Netflix is now), Disney will be very much in favor of not paying Comcast or AT&T for "fast lane" data... Assuming comcast will be charging at both ends.
But like i said, your opinion is fine that you'd rather it not happen at all, and I understand that, especially outside just the IP collection they will obtain. But much like a vote, sometimes you gotta make your peace with the choice you think would do less harm.
Disney may have survived just fine on their giant vault of classics, home grown and recently bought, but if the long term strategy is to become a direct content provider for all sources in entertainment, then this purchase makes all the sense in the world. This is a big play by Disney, and I see why that worries some people, but even those that seem worried about it don't fully understand how big this play is (I don't fully understand it either, but it involves large networks in other countries as well).
I still rather it be Disney over Comcast. Because for all the dirty **** Disney may have tried to pull, Comcast is, has been, and still trying to do even worse.
edit: and I don't want it to come across that I really "support" Disney owning everything, I more or less support them making whole the things they already own (Star Wars, Marvel, Indy, and to some extent they are heavily invested in Avatar). Their far reaching grab for sporting is something i don't know much about, and I have no idea what they are going to do as far an new entries in so many classic Fox franchises if anything at all.
Having already seen the Disney release schedule for next yet.... I'd be kinda concerned if I was another studio as Disney will literally have a handful of movie, potentially even a BlockBuster movie EVERY SINGLE MONTH OF THE YEAR
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: ThePerm on December 12, 2017, 06:51:24 PM
I don't see a huge difference between 2 big corporations owning corporately owned IP and one big corporation owning corporately owned IP. This is because of the transitive property.
I'd be more concerned if they bought Netflix. This is where new stuff comes out nowadays. From experience I have seen several corporations buy IP only for it to not have much of an effect on the market. Like WWE buying WCW. At least Disney are competent managers of content. It would be worse if they bought Warner Bros. WB sits on great IP and manages their IP mediocrely.
You have to think that all the content they are buying is content that has some level of diminishing returns. Their IP is old.
The content that they have would have been 1800s public domain works in the 1840s. This is the closest thing to public domain, and the furthest thing to public domain at the same time. If you look back. Disney and other corporations created the problem where the must buy corporations to get content. If the time to lapse into public domain was shorter they could have just made a new Star Wars movie and nobody could sue.
Disney will spend billions to get this corporation, this money will go to people in the entertainment industry who were patrons of the arts, and will likely continue to do so. There is a Yin and Yang in this situation. The money they spend here goes somewhere.
When you look at some of the IP they acquire, at least they are pretty good managers of the content.
As far as ratings go. Disney let the Marvel Netflix stuff happen, which was all pretty R rated. Also, when you look at the Fox Marvel universe, there isn't much in Deadpool that can't fit into the existing Marvel Universe. In Deadpool, there are different X-men, the main ones are not seen, and the X-men universe was going to be rebooted anyhow. It had ran it's course. You could pretty much say at this point that they rebooted the X-men universe in Deadpool and all they have to do is connect Deadpool to the rest of Marvel somehow. I'm not sure how Deadpool 2 fits, but it isn't out yet. The R-rated Marvel stuff might just show up under the Fox Label. Disney used to run Mirimax after all.
I'm sure as a future online content provider (like Netflix is now), Disney will be very much in favor of not paying Comcast or AT&T for "fast lane" data... Assuming comcast will be charging at both ends.
In favor vs being large enough where they will pay for the privilege of "fast lane" are two different things. Which is why at best I assume they're on the same track as Netflix - against it if pressed for an answer, knowing full well they can bear that cost to ensure they're prioritized.
But like i said, your opinion is fine that you'd rather it not happen at all, and I understand that, especially outside just the IP collection they will obtain. But much like a vote, sometimes you gotta make your peace with the choice you think would do less harm.
True, and given I don't have a choice one way or another, I see the benefits of how they're able to unify several properties they've taken ownership of over the years. I'm hopeful for my friends who like Comics that this means Marvel can stop pretending the X-Men don't exist.
That said, I think there are likely negative repercussions for Disney taking ownership like this, and taking a bigger piece of the entertainment market pie. There have already been instances of Disney strong-arming theaters with Star Wars releases demanding a larger cut of the ticket sales AND requiring a certain number of screens for x amount of weeks. Or how they inserted that Frozen 20 minute "short" ahead of a Pixar film instead of having the kinds of quick hit shorts they usually do.
One upside - Maybe with them now owning 60% of Hulu, they'll offer Disney content on there?
I'm also curious how this really impacts gaming moving forward. I know they have an exclusive deal with EA on star wars that seems to be going swimmingly (and I understand that's likely as much EAs fault as Disney), but does this actually mean X-Men are allowed to exist in Marvel v Capcom? Does this mean more or less licensed games? I do in some ways miss an occasional licensed Superhero game, and while it's nice a Spiderman one is in the works, i'd like to see something akin to X-Men Legends make a reappearance.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: broodwars on December 13, 2017, 12:39:20 PM
"Well, some other big corporation was going to buy the Fox assets anyway" doesn't negate my concern that DISNEY having them consolidates too much market control under DISNEY & risks forming a monopoly.
Universal has nowhere near the control over the market that Disney has.
I also find the concern about Disney needing to compete with Apple amusing since IIRC the Jobs family has controlling interest in Disney's stocks (via the Pixar acquisition).
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: nickmitch on December 13, 2017, 02:31:27 PM
With Disney owning 60% of Hulu, I don't see why they'd still pursue their own streaming service. They've got a majority stake in Netflix's biggest competitor, second only to piracy. I would think revenue from one would strongly cannibalize the other.
I also wouldn't be concerned about Disney making the 21st Century tone down their movies. Like Perm said, they once owned Miramax, which was putting out Tarantino movies at the time. Now, they dropped Miramax, so there's that. But one of the execs from the studio during that time would note how controlling Disney was over their releases, which would have included Kill Bill.
As far as Disney consolidating power goes, that is kind of concerning. Comcast would've been worse since they own cable and internet providing businesses. I'm also not sure how big a deal there being one less big movie studio is. To be fair, they can REALLY strong arm theaters now. And if they push any of the big brands out, they could try to buy them up, which would create a regulatory nightmare. I would think such a thing would be blocked, but I thought this about NBC Comcast, so **** it.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: Order.RSS on December 13, 2017, 05:28:50 PM
Yeah agree with everyone's skepticism above. Sure, right now it might seem like a neat prospect to have Avengers vs. X-Men to occur or whatever... But ultimately they could still just do that if they struck a deal; see Spider-Man Homecoming.
Results from an acquisition like this would still be years off, by which time the whole superhero landscape might have changed a lot. There's too many projects in advanced states of production for there to be instantaneous results.
And yeah I agree it could be mildly fun to see the Fantastic Four prance around in Avengers 8, but I'd rather it doesn't come at the potential risk of shuttering studios like Fox Searchlight.
It just seems like further consolidation; Disney's effective competition would be reduced to Universal, WB, and I guess Sony Pictures and Paramount? Maybe Lionsgate? And sure I know Disney-Fox would still not breach the 50% market share, but they might expand close to that 40% number and it's just worrying when you consider that most of the other players will be hovering between 5 and 10% of the movie market. (WB being the obvious exception.)
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 13, 2017, 07:24:40 PM
That said, I think there are likely negative repercussions for Disney taking ownership like this, and taking a bigger piece of the entertainment market pie. There have already been instances of Disney strong-arming theaters with Star Wars releases demanding a larger cut of the ticket sales AND requiring a certain number of screens for x amount of weeks. Or how they inserted that Frozen 20 minute "short" ahead of a Pixar film instead of having the kinds of quick hit shorts they usually do.
I recognize those moments, but did Disney go thru with the increased hike on SW for the theaters? I know that they heard the comsumer complaints on the Frozen 30 minute special before Coco, and removed it almost immediately, but that was also hurting thier own runtime and therefore profits from the movie (which is why once it was removed, they asked the theaters to please add an extra showing of Coco every day) you also didn't mention it, but that journalist ban they almost immediately reversed as well.
as far as ticket share hike for theaters... SW is a BIG deal at the theater, so as a business, I can't really blame them for trying to capitalize, but at the same time, I also expect the theater to try and capitalize on it as well with movie tie-ins, sell posters, memorabilia in the lobby, hot cocoa to those waiting in line outside, etc etc. I'm not saying it's ok to gouge the "little-man" as I know some theaters may struggle from time to time. but business is business (I know Disney ain't hurting for that extra $100M in shared revenue, but they are a business.... and business is gonna business)
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One upside - Maybe with them now owning 60% of Hulu, they'll offer Disney content on there?
Disney is still moving ahead with their own service. All the Disney content will still be on Netflix till sometime in 2019. Disneyflix will probably be the home after that. Hulu will probably get all the non family friendly FOX stuff though that doesn't suit the audience for Disneyflix
"Well, some other big corporation was going to buy the Fox assets anyway" doesn't negate my concern that DISNEY having them consolidates too much market control under DISNEY & risks forming a monopoly.
Universal has nowhere near the control over the market that Disney has.
I also find the concern about Disney needing to compete with Apple amusing since IIRC the Jobs family has controlling interest in Disney's stocks (via the Pixar acquisition).
Universal is owned by Comcast and Comcast has a different kind of control over the market, since they are not owner IP owners/Content providers, but also gateway to access through cable and internet.
and I believe the Jobs fam has about 5% shares, about the same the Murdoch fam is getting out this deal. Apple itself is HUGE, and the like of it, Google, and Amazon deciding to that become content providers puts them in direct competition with companies like Disney.... it's actually one of the reasons Murdoch had to get out of that portion of the FOX business and focus on News and Sports from what I've been reading.
Which comes back to the point that of the 2 companies that were even attempting to be involved in this transaction (because it was happening regardless), Disney was the best choice for many reasons.
With Disney owning 60% of Hulu, I don't see why they'd still pursue their own streaming service. They've got a majority stake in Netflix's biggest competitor, second only to piracy. I would think revenue from one would strongly cannibalize the other.
Disney wants to compete with Netflix, HBO and whoever else directly. owning 60% of Hulu is great, but owning 100% of Disneyflix is even better.... especially when Hulu will be the companion site, so they will be getting more of your money (160%) instead of just 60% through Hulu
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As far as Disney consolidating power goes, that is kind of concerning. Comcast would've been worse since they own cable and internet providing businesses. I'm also not sure how big a deal there being one less big movie studio is. To be fair, they can REALLY strong arm theaters now. And if they push any of the big brands out, they could try to buy them up, which would create a regulatory nightmare. I would think such a thing would be blocked, but I thought this about NBC Comcast, so **** it.
This deal was designed to avoid any regulatory issues. The biggest portion of this deal has to do with sports and international presence through SkyTV and YES network (the other network I forgot in the OP). The IP is just the portion us here seem to care the most about, but it's just the icing on a pretty big cake. Fox from the reports will continue to run autonomously, much like Marvel, Lucasfilm and Pixar has (outside of a few select IP's). So that should should leave Fox Searchlight to continue doing what they do, same as the rest of the studio. I think the question is will Feige let a part of 21st Century continue to make the X-Men movies under his direction "in association with Marvel Studios" or does he being it in house? Disney was already fighting with itself for space on the release schedule.... so I assume this purchase doesn't make that any easier.
also, expect an official announcement tomorrow: https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney-finalizing-pact-to-acquire-assets-from-21st-century-fox-1513203075 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney-finalizing-pact-to-acquire-assets-from-21st-century-fox-1513203075)
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: ShyGuy on December 13, 2017, 10:17:47 PM
What we need, is a serious reformation of copyright law. Take it back to this:
If you create something, then you can own that for 28 years and then you can renew it for another 28 years making it 56 years. After that, public domain.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: UncleBob on December 13, 2017, 10:29:11 PM
Why 28/28?
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: ShyGuy on December 13, 2017, 10:43:14 PM
I don't know, but that is what the US Copyright Office set it at back in 1909. 56 years gives you a big chunk of your life.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: ThePerm on December 13, 2017, 11:30:21 PM
Also, Fox really didn't own much IP. The real notable ones are a couple sci-fi movies like Alien, Predator, Avatar, Planet of the Apes, The Fly, and also the Fox and FX TV shows.
They had Marvel rights, but only because they ripped off Marvel with shitty contracts. We're all Nintendo people, can you imagine if to this day the Zelda CDi crap continued and Nintendo had no control over it? Or if Nintendo had followed through with the Playstation? The only reason why Marvel made those deals before is they were in a shitty financial position trying to stay afloat. Comics have only had a few periods of booming money making. Their artistic intellectual endeavor has always been consistent.
If you look at it, if Fox had bought Marvel a few years ago wouldn't they be buying a run down Disney by now? Also, to note: The original Star Wars was made at Fox.
Another note: Dr. Dolittle. That could be a big franchise again. Also, not buying Fox News.
As far as buying Hulu goes. Good. I want less pay streaming services. Another thing, they probably won't make the Disney streaming service now. If they have 60% stake, they can just change the name. Were you married to the name Hulu?
Next move: CBS and Time Warner merge. The AT&T deal will probably fail.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 14, 2017, 01:42:41 AM
Here is a list of things Disney gets in the Purchase of 20th Century FOX http://beta.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-disney-21st-century-fox-20171213-htmlstory.html (http://beta.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-disney-21st-century-fox-20171213-htmlstory.html)
20th Century Fox Movie and Television Studio Valuation: $13.3 billion Movies: “Avatar,” original “Star Wars,” “Deadpool,” “X-Men,” “Ice Age,” “Ferdinand” Television shows: “The Simpsons,” “Family Guy,” “This Is Us,” “Modern Family,” “Homeland,” “Empire,” “X-Files”
Fox Regional Sports Networks: 22 regional cable channels Valuation: $22.4 billion TV channels: Prime Ticket, Fox Sports West, Fox Sports San Diego, YES Network, among others
Domestic cable channels Valuation: $8.7 billion TV channels: FX and FXX, with such shows as “American Horror Story,” “Fargo” and “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia." National Geographic Channels have such shows as “Genius,” “The Long Road Home” and “Running Wild With Bear Grylls.”
Fox Networks Group International cable channels Valuation: $13.7 billion TV channels: Star India, headquartered in Mumbai, includes dozens of television channels in several languages, including in English and Hindi. Fox Networks Group distributes basic television channels in Mexico, Brazil and other parts of Latin America. The company also has been launching Spanish-language sports programming services throughout Latin America.
Hulu Valuation: $1.75 billion Other: Fox’s 30% stake, which would give Disney a controlling interest of 60%.
Sky Valuation: $8.8 billion Other: Fox owns 39% of Sky, the European satellite TV giant. Fox would like to increase its ownership stake to 100% next year if British regulators approve the transaction.
edit: and here's a list of other shows Disney would obtain
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Disney will be acquiring the rights to Crusader Rabbit – the first cartoon series created for television (in 1949). They’ll also pick up much vintage Saturday morning stuff – like the Planet Of The Apes cartoons, Journey To The Center Of The Earth, Fantastic Voyage, The Hardy Boys, Dr. Doolittle… Fox Kids originals like The Tick and Peter Pan and The Pirates, Bobby’s World and Life With Louie. Disney would acquire a slew of theatrical features, including Ralph Bakshi’s Wizards(1977) and Fire and Ice (1983). Disney could add Ferngully: The Last Rain Forrest, Once Upon A Forest, The Pagemaster, Don Bluth’s Anasatasia and Titan AE, and of course the Blue Sky studio and their assets: The Ice Age Movies, Robots, Rio, Epic, Horton Hears A Who, The Peanuts Movie – and the forthcoming Ferdinand (which will go good with the 1939 Oscar winning original short).They would now own The Book Of Life (which would pair nicely with Coco), and of course their Animation Domination Sunday night line-up: American Dad, King Of The Hill, Cleveland Show, Futurama… and a whole bunch of primetime one-season wonders: Sit Down Shut Up, Bordertown, Allen Gregory, and on and on.
and more info about Disney taking over Star India http://www.business-standard.com/article/international/disney-fox-deal-how-it-is-set-to-change-india-s-broadcasting-pecking-order-117121400492_1.html
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Walt Disney Co’s global acquisition of a large part of the business owned by Rupert Murdoch’s 21st Century Fox Inc (2CF) – expected to be announced soon – will fundamentally change India’s TV broadcast landscape as well. According to those privy to the talks, the entire business of Star India, including entertainment and sports channels and the digital over-the-top channel Hotstar, will be transferred to Disney as part of the deal. And, that will catapult Disney, currently a small player known primarily for kids’ channels and distribution of Hollywood films, as the country’s largest media & entertainment broadcaster, with over $1.3 billion of additional India revenue.
more at the link
Title: Disney bought FOX - Fantastic Phase 4 is coming!!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 14, 2017, 07:20:36 AM
aaaand, it's Official http://www.enhancedonlinenews.com/news/eon/20171214005651/en/Walt-Disney-Company-Acquire-Twenty-First-Century-Fox/ (http://www.enhancedonlinenews.com/news/eon/20171214005651/en/Walt-Disney-Company-Acquire-Twenty-First-Century-Fox/)
details to follow later (or read the link)... I just happen to wake around this hour. I'm going back to sleep now.
Quote
Combining with Disney are 21st Century Fox’s critically acclaimed film production businesses, including Twentieth Century Fox, Fox Searchlight Pictures and Fox 2000, which together offer diverse and compelling storytelling businesses and are the homes of Avatar, X-Men, Fantastic Four and Deadpool, as well as The Grand Budapest Hotel, Hidden Figures, Gone Girl, The Shape of Water and The Martian—and its storied television creative units, Twentieth Century Fox Television, FX Productions and Fox21, which have brought The Americans, This Is Us, Modern Family, The Simpsons and so many more hit TV series to viewers across the globe. Disney will also acquire FX Networks, National Geographic Partners, Fox Sports Regional Networks, Fox Networks Group International, Star India and Fox’s interests in Hulu, Sky plc, Tata Sky and Endemol Shine Group. [...] The agreement also provides Disney with the opportunity to reunite the X-Men, Fantastic Four and Deadpool with the Marvel family under one roof and create richer, more complex worlds of inter-related characters and stories that audiences have shown they love.
Disney is having an 8:00AM call and Fox is having a 9:00AM call. You can listen to it here (http://'http://www.disney.com/investors') and here (http://'http://www.21cf.com/investor-relations')
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: lolmonade on December 14, 2017, 08:16:53 AM
They had Marvel rights, but only because they ripped off Marvel with shitty contracts. We're all Nintendo people, can you imagine if to this day the Zelda CDi crap continued and Nintendo had no control over it? Or if Nintendo had followed through with the Playstation? The only reason why Marvel made those deals before is they were in a shitty financial position trying to stay afloat. Comics have only had a few periods of booming money making. Their artistic intellectual endeavor has always been consistent.
I don't see how it was Fox's fault for making an offer that Marvel accepted. Marvel was in bad financial way, and Superhero movies were NOT the booming business they are today. Marvel still had all the rights to make comic books, merchandise, etc, just not movies or tv.
And your example needs to be amended, it'd be like if Nintendo sold-off the movie/tv rights to Mario and Zelda today, not the franchises themselves. If Video game movies become a breakaway success in the next 5-10 years, it wasn't the buyer screwing Nintendo, it was them making a deal at the time they felt was mutually beneficial, and the buyer ended up being the one who got the better deal in the long run.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 14, 2017, 08:23:33 AM
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on December 14, 2017, 09:29:50 AM
I'm such a fanboy sometimes. Outside of Marvel getting back the rights to 90% of it's ip's, I would think this is a completely horrid and shitty move however, Doom is in the MCU (which I called years ago) and this is the only thing that matters to me.
I have enough current entertainment to last me 2 lifetimes, I'm an old dusty man now and don't really care about most of those other affairs now.
Disney will try and buy Walmart next...mark my words
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: broodwars on December 14, 2017, 11:45:07 AM
The Marvel Cinematic Universe: so utterly incapable of creating a good villain that Disney went out & bought Fox's instead of hiring competent writers.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: Adrock on December 14, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
The Marvel Cinematic Universe: so utterly incapable of creating a good villain that Disney went out & bought Fox's instead of hiring competent writers.
There’s no guarantee that the villains Marvel get back in the deal will be any better written.
Title: Re: Disney to buy 21st Century Fox = X-Men & Fantastic 4 Coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2017, 01:30:15 PM
They had Marvel rights, but only because they ripped off Marvel with shitty contracts. We're all Nintendo people, can you imagine if to this day the Zelda CDi crap continued and Nintendo had no control over it? Or if Nintendo had followed through with the Playstation? The only reason why Marvel made those deals before is they were in a shitty financial position trying to stay afloat. Comics have only had a few periods of booming money making. Their artistic intellectual endeavor has always been consistent.
I don't see how it was Fox's fault for making an offer that Marvel accepted. Marvel was in bad financial way, and Superhero movies were NOT the booming business they are today. Marvel still had all the rights to make comic books, merchandise, etc, just not movies or tv.
And your example needs to be amended, it'd be like if Nintendo sold-off the movie/tv rights to Mario and Zelda today, not the franchises themselves. If Video game movies become a breakaway success in the next 5-10 years, it wasn't the buyer screwing Nintendo, it was them making a deal at the time they felt was mutually beneficial, and the buyer ended up being the one who got the better deal in the long run.
The point was Marvel as a company was somewhat incompetent with the IP. Nintendo licensed stuff, they never sold "film rights" Disney never screwed up that badly. Nintendo almost did at some point. Disney has licensed stuff to Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't have the infinite playing card producing rights to Mickey Mouse cards as long as Nintendo keeps producing Card decks. They're not incompetent. Marvel on the other hand could be buying Disney at this point if they had just looked over the wording of the contracts harder.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 14, 2017, 02:20:04 PM
Good News Everyone (officially to be read in Farnsworth voice - it's Disney cannon now)
Deadpool to remain R-rated in Disney's care - says Bob Iger https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/deadpool-will-stay-r-rated-fox-disney-merger-1067651 (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/deadpool-will-stay-r-rated-fox-disney-merger-1067651)
(https://i.imgur.com/AonuJAU.png)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 16, 2017, 04:45:11 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRGL7vMXkAElOFb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/b3JXfdH.jpg)
That's a helluva coincidence....
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 12, 2018, 04:35:04 PM
Looks like Fox is expecting the deal to be completed by next summer, at the latest.
No New Mutants. No Doom No Gambit No X-Force No Silver Surfer No X-23
....but hopefully Deadpool 3 will still happen.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 20, 2018, 08:05:00 AM
I don't think it necessarily those movies are all canned...but their current iteration would be. Which, besides X-Force, is a good thing. Pretty sure New Mutants is still happening, because it was essentially finished.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: nickmitch on April 20, 2018, 01:56:00 PM
I wonder how much Disney is gonna pick up from where Fox is leaving off. I'd think most of those movies would be pretty much canned. Isn't New Mutants the only one that's kind of done? It's a sunk cost for the studio that Fox is recouping from the sale and that Disney likely wouldn't be concerned with. I don't think there's much to gain by keeping a Gambit movie in production that just has Channing Tatum tied to it and little else. Anything X-Men might be better built from the Deadpool universe. The rest of the X-Men movies have been a series of poor characterizations. The only real issue is explaining away the last couple of X-Men movies.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Adrock on April 20, 2018, 02:23:57 PM
If New Mutants is done and Disney wants to get something out of it while also trying to distance themselves from it with the intention of rebooting X-Men, maybe let Netflix release it as a Netflix Original. It wouldn’t be the first time Netflix picked up a movie like this.
I agree with building off Deadpool to reboot X-Men. Without having seen Deadpool 2, there’s very little connecting it to Fox’s main X-Men films right now. Off the top of my head, it reused the mansion exterior for Xavier’s School for Gifted Youngsters. Does that really matter? If we nitpick, I suppose Deadpool mass murdering fools should have caught the attention of The Avengers, but I think it’s better to just handwave that away. I mean, the Netflix Marvel shows only casually hint at being connected so it isn’t much of a stretch.
Additionally, recasting Colossus, not showing any other existing mutant in Fox’s continuity, and having the final set piece on a totally-not-a-SHIELD-Helicarrier works in favor of stealth-inserting Deadpool into the MCU. “Wade Wilson were there all along,” Kevin Feige says as he turns into the shrug emoji.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: nickmitch on April 20, 2018, 10:03:05 PM
I would love to see Deadpool pop up in random movies just to explain the continuity errors integrating the universes would make.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Evan_B on April 21, 2018, 03:45:11 PM
New Mutants looked like a more interesting concept than any of the crap Marvel has been putting out for the past four years, so if it gets axed I would be disappointed, but not surprised.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 21, 2018, 06:41:35 PM
I did like that New Mutants was trying to be a horror movie. Technically the movie was done before they decided to delay for reshoots and adding a prominent character to the story.
Maybe they scrap the changes.... or maybe Netflix picks up the tab on the reshoots to stream it instead of a theater release?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 21, 2018, 09:58:47 PM
So apparently Comcast offered 16% more than Disney to buy Fox, but they went with Disney anyway, for various reasons. Man, that would have SUCKED.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: ThePerm on April 22, 2018, 04:58:08 AM
I would love to see Deadpool pop up in random movies just to explain the continuity errors integrating the universes would make.
That would be great. They can always James Bond "forget about it" too.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 08, 2018, 11:01:21 AM
So there is a multi-layered story going around right now about Comcast teasing that they will make a $60B CASH Offer for FOX if the AT&T/Time Warner merger is allowed to happen.
This is ontop of them also pitching to do a full buyout of the Sky Broadcasting in Europe.
the different angles pitched on this is that ONE, this is crazy talk, because not only would paying all this in cash severely cash strap Comcast, but according to a supposed FOX Stock holder, that $60B doesn't even include the $12B of FOX debt that the Disney deal of $52B in stock assets absorbs. And on top of that, there are severe taxes to be had with that much cash involved in a transaction, which also according to the same supposed FOX shareholder, makes the Disney offer still seem much better, as the stocks assets are tax deferred and still appreciating.
Now the other side of this is that Comcast is announcing this before a decision is made in the AT&T merger because they are trying to force a decision, and in the meantime push news that will hopefully make Disney stock take a dip that will depreciate the stock value and make the offer seem less desireable from a $ for $ stand point.
So from my understanding this is the financial breakdown Comcast is willing to put down to spoil this for Disney:
$30B for the portion of Sky that Fox don't own $60B for Fox in CASH $12B for the Fox debts that they will have to absorb to sweeten the deal and at least match Disney.
a total of $102B? That seems quite steep. And I think if they make this acquisition happen, it might make Comcast even bigger than AT&T if their merger is allowed to go thru.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Stratos on May 08, 2018, 03:50:10 PM
I read that the Fox attempt will only go out if the ATT deal passes, and from what little I have read, it sounds like the courts/feds will shoot that down. So all this Comcast talk is fluff to me unless they are green-lit to merge w/ ATT. It is also known that the majority owner of Fox hates cash deals because of the extra tax burden, so I'm pretty sure this will be dead in the water. Not like Disney couldn't flex a bit more cash muscles and up the ante again to elbow them out.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 08, 2018, 04:18:24 PM
We don't get exciting business drama like this very often, so I'm enjoying watching this play out.
The only other notable story is Elon Musk v/s investors.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 08, 2018, 09:04:06 PM
So there is a multi-layered story going around right now about Comcast teasing that they will make a $60B CASH Offer for FOX if the AT&T/Time Warner merger is allowed to happen
and from what little I have read, it sounds like the courts/feds will shoot that down. So all this Comcast talk is fluff to me unless they are green-lit to merge w/ ATT.
Well..... according to a tweet today by AT&T, they have some sort of connection to bribery consulting payments to Cohen LLC (yes, Trump's fixer "Lawyer") that the DOJ refuses to discuss, yet strangely seems connected to that period time where AT&T was looking to gain favor on a ruling of their merger.
So assuming that lumps AT&T into the dark rabbit hole that is on the topic of undiscussable, that may put a nail in the coffin of this deal if a certain other investigation is involved, because that other investigation has all of those communications.... the truth will be known soon enough
So all this Comcast talk is fluff to me unless they are green-lit to merge w/ ATT. It is also known that the majority owner of Fox hates cash deals because of the extra tax burden, so I'm pretty sure this will be dead in the water. Not like Disney couldn't flex a bit more cash muscles and up the ante again to elbow them out.
Let's hope Disney doesn't have to sweeten up anything in the deal. I'm didn't really care about the AT&T/Warner deal, but now that it's caught up in what it's caught up in, and the fact that Comcast is banking on it succeeding, I hope it crumbles before there is even a ruling about it.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 08, 2018, 09:08:48 PM
Senate will open hearings on AT&T, they're gonna be in deep **** soon.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 08, 2018, 09:11:08 PM
Disney can (probably still) buy Fox, but they can't buy James Murdoch. https://www.wsj.com/articles/james-murdoch-wouldnt-move-to-disney-if-fox-deal-closes-1525824120 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/james-murdoch-wouldnt-move-to-disney-if-fox-deal-closes-1525824120)
Also, the added political intrigue is making things extra spicy!
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: broodwars on May 08, 2018, 09:20:41 PM
Disney can (probably still) buy Fox, but they can't buy James Murdoch. https://www.wsj.com/articles/james-murdoch-wouldnt-move-to-disney-if-fox-deal-closes-1525824120 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/james-murdoch-wouldnt-move-to-disney-if-fox-deal-closes-1525824120)
Also, the added political intrigue is making things extra spicy!
Wasn't he always going to stay with the FOX New Channel and send his sons to some day be hopeful head figures in the Disney House of the Mouse?
and here is BOMBSHELL dropped that is undiscussable here on it's own. but Page 4 and 5 are related to AT&T https://www.dropbox.com/s/pskgpwr15r48tx5/Executive%20Summary.pdf?dl=0
Everything else is related to "Stupid Watergate Speedrun Record"
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Stratos on May 09, 2018, 01:01:09 AM
Huh, I'm sorry BnM, I totally missed that first point you made. I even reread your post to make sure you didn't mention it and I still glossed over that part.
Also, that dropbox file is gone now, but with how this thing is continuing down the political path then I have no desire to continue. I've tried to tune most of that circus side show out. Just hoping Comcast doesn't have their way in this matter.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 09, 2018, 02:15:44 AM
Huh, I'm sorry BnM, I totally missed that first point you made. I even reread your post to make sure you didn't mention it and I still glossed over that part.
Also, that dropbox file is gone now, but with how this thing is continuing down the political path then I have no desire to continue. I've tried to tune most of that circus side show out. Just hoping Comcast doesn't have their way in this matter.
It's all good. I also mentioned the cash being taxed, but at least I know you were on the same page, even if you didn't actually read what I posted. lol I also would have saved or quoted the relevant stuff out of that link (and there was A LOT... it will all come up again as it was all from the Stormy Lawyer, and Cohen's counsel's response was "How did he know about that!?") but we can't directly discuss any of that here.... so I didn't bother. Now it's gone.
If I find another link that backed it up. I'll repost it. Very juicy heads up on the news for the next few days. LOL
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 09, 2018, 02:50:54 AM
I still had the page up, so I was able to save it.
here is the link https://www.dropbox.com/sh/43bpqfhibyu57u6/AACz54hgjT-ONinfyNjEh45aa?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/43bpqfhibyu57u6/AACz54hgjT-ONinfyNjEh45aa?dl=0)
Let me know if it works or not. It should be a pdf page I can still see it in my browser, but the page itself is gone.
edit: That link doesn't appear to work... I still have it up. Lot of stuff straight from Avenetti.... :/
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 09, 2018, 11:39:28 AM
The Cohen thing does get us to the edge of a politics discussion, but I do think it's worth noting that AT&T tried to get some insider info, which could throw a wrench in things.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 10, 2018, 02:49:36 AM
Here is an article that kinda points out why this AT&T/Cohen connection is important. https://thinkprogress.org/why-atts-payment-to-michael-cohen-is-a-bombshell-edaa3a6acf4e/
If this deal dies, as it should given everything that has come to light, then Iger can stay as confident as ever about this Disney/Fox deal closing
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 10, 2018, 07:48:27 AM
I mean it pretty much means that the AT&T/Time Warner deal cannot go through now. If it does, it's the most blatant corrupt merger approval in a long time.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: broodwars on May 10, 2018, 08:19:23 AM
I mean it pretty much means that the AT&T/Time Warner deal cannot go through now. If it does, it's the most blatant corrupt merger approval in a long time.
As opposed to giving Disney a further monopoly over the entertainment industry. -_-
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 10, 2018, 10:08:06 AM
I mean it pretty much means that the AT&T/Time Warner deal cannot go through now. If it does, it's the most blatant corrupt merger approval in a long time.
As opposed to giving Disney a further monopoly over the entertainment industry. -_-
Even with Fox, Disney is still much smaller and in less control than Comcast is. Besides, who do you trust more to treat IP with care and respect?
And would you really prefer Comcast have more of an ability to not only control what we watch, but further restrict how we have access to it? Comcast gaining MORE channels, and becoming an even larger internet provider in Europe would probably be a terrible idea, considering how monopolizing they are in the areas in the US that they already operate.
Besides, I want F4 and X-Men back in Marvel's hands. But I'm all for Disney trading a few things of interest to Comcast/Universal for things of more interest to Disney/Marvel, such as Marvel Amusement Park rights east of the Mississippi and Hulk Movie Distro rights.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 10, 2018, 10:38:04 AM
The Comcast deal is far worse. The Disney deal gives them more power as a content provider, network, and film studio; but those are areas Disney already operates in. Comcast has been making vertical acquisitions which give it more control over both the content and how you get to it. With Net Neutrality biting the dust in the US, they could prove to be more of an issue in the market they serve.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: broodwars on May 10, 2018, 01:27:26 PM
Just to be clear, I don't want anyone buying Fox. We've hit our limit on giant mega corporations controlling our entertainment, media, etc.
If Fox has to ho anywhere, though, I'd rather they weren't with Disney, who already exercised their monopoly of the entertainment market over theaters with The Last Jedi, if reports from the theater holders is to be believed.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 10, 2018, 05:47:29 PM
I'd rather they strong arm theaters for their highly sought after quality content, than Comcast continue to price gouge me for content and price gouge me to have access to it.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 10, 2018, 08:16:22 PM
I respectfully think we just need to change the subject as it's getting way too close to out right politics here.
BnM, what difference does it make if Comcast makes it more expensive to get the entertainment or Disney makes it more expensive to go to the movies? Either way it's getting more expensive. I can't afford to go to the movies any more, haven't in a while but I can still get fairly reasonable internet and cheap Netflix.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Adrock on May 10, 2018, 08:34:48 PM
Do you know any theaters that do a discount day? I saw Infinity War (again) on Tuesday for like $7 after tax. It isn’t bad though you have to plan accordingly.
Also, I’d rather Disney get Fox if only for Dr. Doom in the MCU.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: broodwars on May 10, 2018, 09:22:13 PM
Do you know any theaters that do a discount day? I saw Infinity War (again) on Tuesday for like $7 after tax. It isn’t bad though you have to plan accordingly.
Also, I’d rather Disney get Fox if only for Dr. Doom in the MCU.
Why? So they can kill him off after one movie, like they have all their other villains outside of Loki?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 10, 2018, 10:31:53 PM
Comcast is already throttling and capping people using the internet. They lobbied HARD to kill net neutrality. I don't need to go to the theaters to watch a movie, even though that moment of Disney movie muscle flex lasted all of like a week, Comcast had been at this screwing the customers game for decades. I use my home internet to do all sorts of stuff, such as watch movies, YouTube, tv shows, and if eventually gets their way, they'll be charging a premium for the piping, a separate premium for the service, and then another premium on top of that for the product. All delivered at far less than their best effort (as the market competition *should it exist* dictates), and with terrible customer service to top it off.
Fox is getting sold off, and of the two available suitors trying to claim the prize, Disney is by far and hands down the better choice.
With Disney, Fox will have the option to run itself mostly independent as long as they produce quality products. They have some major in house competition between Marvel and Lucasfilm to live up to.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Adrock on May 10, 2018, 11:01:29 PM
Just to be clear, I don't want anyone buying Fox. We've hit our limit on giant mega corporations controlling our entertainment, media, etc.
If Fox has to ho anywhere, though, I'd rather they weren't with Disney, who already exercised their monopoly of the entertainment market over theaters with The Last Jedi, if reports from the theater holders is to be believed.
This is misguided. Disney isn't buying a news company. They aren't taking Fox News with them. They're buying superfluous entertainment.
They get a few extra franchises. Franchises that aren't being managed the best by the current regime at Fox. I would most definitely not want Comcast to have the franchises.
The key thing that they are doing is buying back Marvel's movie rights because Marvel was incompetent with licensing in the 70s80s90s.
Imagine if Nintendo wanted to make Nintendo movies with Nintendo characters and they needed to basically buy the companies that had the rights to them.
A good reason why Disney is in the position now is because of merit. They would not be where they are now if they hadn't made the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie. Not all of their own properties have worked. They've become Marvel dominant and are basically Marvel. Mickey's house was leaking until Kevin Feige movie in.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 10, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
Even if they bought Fox News, they still would not be buying a news company (ayyyyyyy). Klaue lived for more than one movie. Vulture and Zemo are still alive. The Abomination and Leader are still alive. Red Skull is still alive? Hela is (probably) still alive.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Adrock on May 11, 2018, 09:00:25 AM
Klaue lived for more than one movie. Vulture and Zemo are still alive. The Abomination and Brainiac are still alive. Red Skull is still alive? Hela is (probably) still alive.
Most of them have been rendered figuratively powerless. Blonsky, Toomes, and Zemo are imprisoned. Agents of SHIELD even addresssed Blonsky still in prison. The Grandmaster was either killed by the rebels or also imprisoned. Hela may return, and I suppose it’s possible Cap ends up confronting Red Skull in Avengers 4 to bring that story full circle before Chris Evans fucks off out of the MCU.
Regardless, movies have to be treated differently than comics. There is limited time to tell stories so these villains shouldn’t keep showing up because the complaint would be that Marvel has no new ideas if it’s continually trotting out past villains. The choices are pretty much: death, imprisonment, and/or redemption.
I don’t have a problem with Marvel villains getting disposed of after one movie. My criticism of Marvel villains is how they’re handled in the movie they appear it. They’re typically well cast and well acted; we just don’t see enough of them. I wouldn’t have minded Ultron returning on a smaller scale, without his sentries while trying to regain access to the Internet (that sounds sillier than it actually is).
Assuming the Fox deal goes through, I think Dr. Doom (and Magneto) has the potential to be new Loki in the next few MCU Phases.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2018, 11:22:00 AM
There's no way this deal gets approved. Which means Comcast will likely save it's breath and money. Or so we can only hope. Iger smiles confidently.
(https://i.imgur.com/IjWiaIy.png)
And the Trump Tower records clearly point out that a meeting was setup.
Khushrenada Edit: I've edited the post because there was a complaint about politics. Hopefully this removes all offending political talk. I don't really see a need to lock this thread yet but just a reminder to keep it on the business and less about any potential political scandals being involved.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 11, 2018, 01:48:52 PM
I respectfully think we just need to change the subject as it's getting way too close to out right politics here.
BnM, what difference does it make if Comcast makes it more expensive to get the entertainment or Disney makes it more expensive to go to the movies? Either way it's getting more expensive. I can't afford to go to the movies any more, haven't in a while but I can still get fairly reasonable internet and cheap Netflix.
That has more to do with your local theater. In Arizona we pay like $7 to go to a movie at Harkins or AMC. Well below the national average. The food is expensive though. A loyalty cup is $6 which makes drinks $1. Popcorn is carbs and fat.
Actually, the Alamo theater is also pretty cheap. The movie is $7.50 and they serve hamburgers, beer, and fish and chips.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Shaymin on May 11, 2018, 10:45:53 PM
Just a note: I know the, um, recent events are tangentially related to whether Megacorp A will buy Megacorp B, but I don't want to see this get shut down for violating the political talk rule.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2018, 11:35:49 PM
Just a note: I know the, um, recent events are tangentially related to whether Megacorp A will buy Megacorp B, but I don't want to see this get shut down for violating the political talk rule.
Did I step too close to the line? I don't believe I brought up anything explicitly political... not that I remember what I posted earlier. But damn... snitches gonna bitch I guess... :/ can't just not discuss a particular sentence and move on.
Well, hopefully with the newly appointed lawyer on board flappin his gums about how the guy at the top and in charge of the people who get to decide was part of the decision to block the AT&T merger, hopefully that guy at the top decides to double down on that and let the people that are in charge of making the decision make it official.
You think Disney will suddenly add some new friends to the House of Mouse once the deal closes? Like Freddy & Franny Fox
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: oohhboy on May 12, 2018, 04:48:53 PM
Just a note: I know the, um, recent events are tangentially related to whether Megacorp A will buy Megacorp B, but I don't want to see this get shut down for violating the political talk rule.
Not even close to political and it hasn't been every time someone has gotten fussy about it. Whenever you talk about Megacorps there will be some people who are affiliated politically in some way especially given the ever increasing charged environment. If you talk about the FCC, politics is unavoidable given the agendas and how it is (ab)used. As long as it stays relevant to the merger I don't see much of a problem.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Khushrenada on May 12, 2018, 05:40:04 PM
You're right. Everyone here does a pretty good job of not wading very far into a political discussion when certain topics may invariably include some element that touches on politics because of the nature of that topic. There's always going to be some give and take on the matter and the good thing about it is that the mod team here rarely has to act on this point and, again, that's because the community here is able to post within that requirement and keep from going to deep into that subject.
Now, I'm not going to get too detailed about it as I do think the Report to Moderator feature is about anonymity (unless it's a funny spambot report and then I'll highlight those) but it wasn't an accusation that this discussion has become completely political and that this thread should be shut down. It was more a concern of whether it was getting close to or starting to cross the line. For the sake of reference, BnM made an aside wondering how Fox News would spin the story and then at the end made a reference to collusion and money trails about the affair (which isn't exactly a fact as there has been no legal judgement stating that to be so meaning presumed innocent and all that jazz). I decided to edit those parts out as they don't have much bearing on the matter of Disney and Fox and the most likely failed AT&T merger didn't need those details to make its point. I don't think there's anything wrong with erring a bit on the cautious side with regards to potentially political points like that and thus removed them in this case just to be safe that no one replied to them and took things further. That's all.
No warnings and suspensions were really needed and this topic is free to continue being discussed. Shaymin added a friendly reminder as well but, again, I do thank all the users here for their discretion in keeping the political elements light and low key so that serious moderation isn't required in the discussions on this board. You're all good (unless you dislike the things I like and then you're the worst :cool; ). Carry on.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 12, 2018, 05:57:19 PM
Just a note: I know the, um, recent events are tangentially related to whether Megacorp A will buy Megacorp B, but I don't want to see this get shut down for violating the political talk rule.
Not even close to political and it hasn't been every time someone has gotten fussy about it. Whenever you talk about Megacorps there will be some people who are affiliated politically in some way especially given the ever increasing charged environment. If you talk about the FCC, politics is unavoidable given the agendas and how it is (ab)used. As long as it stays relevant to the merger I don't see much of a problem.
I personally feel that everything I was posting was directly related to why A may not be able to purchase W, and I do recognize that the players involved have P scandals and affiliations (lol pun intended), but you can't really delve into the why A won't be allowed to buy W and therefore why C won't bother to bid on F just to interfere with D, if we can't even point out what the players involved did to screw up the whole deal in the first place. No one even mentioning any unrelated P scandals and Affiliations. Those are just assumed because of who the players are.
So I agree with oohhboy on this one. But it's whatever. edits have been made. and I'll continue to update if the situation gets worse or the deal finally confirmed and finalized.
Edit: Just read the post above me. And I guess I did dance on the line. But the "references" I made were about the counsel and the company. It's just easy to assume that it wasn't, but that was kinda the point of the reference. So maybe it was best to remove it.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Stratos on May 12, 2018, 09:33:11 PM
On the bright side this is all new to me, and I brought it up with a co-worker who is heavily invested in the political story and he laughed at me being out of date with my news. So my attempts to shield myself from the current political circus is at least somewhat working. One of the reasons I like being here is that we tend to be rather insulated from politics. Because you know what politics stands for: poli is the Greek word for many, ticks are blood sucking creatures, so politics is merely a collection of many bloodsucking creatures. and we deal with enough of those with exploitative companies like EA draining us with micro transactions and day-one-DLC.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 12, 2018, 11:15:41 PM
For the record, I didn't report anyone. I agree with BnM the discussion about one merger has bearing on another, but if you are going to get into it then it's going to divide people.
Perm, I suppose you are right. However, to be air, $8 or thereabouts for ONE movie is still relatively expensive compared to roughly $8 bucks a month or so for Netflix. Especially considering the endless hours versus, you know, 2-3 for the same money. It's all relative I guess.
My only point was it doesn't matter who owns what, the prices of tickets and the prices of internet are both going to go up.
Sticking to just what it means for Marvel: There is absolutely no way to integrate the Fantastic Four and Xm-Men back into the proper MCU without completely ignoring everything Fox has already done, including Deadpool. Now, considering Marvel (before Disney) did some retconning of their own and Fox has basically made a mess of all of their properties it's going to basically require a clean slate anyways.
The ironic thing about all of this is Marvel, and thus Disney, wouldn't be in the position they are if the Fox X-Me films hadn't paved the way for them in the first place. In some ways I kind of think Warner and DC are in a better position to come out ahead if they play their cards right.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 12, 2018, 11:27:01 PM
Deadpool being self-aware is the reason they could easily put him in the MCU "as-is"...but it's also the reason they can't.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: ThePerm on May 13, 2018, 12:32:26 AM
Perm, I suppose you are right. However, to be air, $8 or thereabouts for ONE movie is still relatively expensive compared to roughly $8 bucks a month or so for Netflix. Especially considering the endless hours versus, you know, 2-3 for the same money. It's all relative I guess.
My only point was it doesn't matter who owns what, the prices of tickets and the prices of internet are both going to go up.
Increasing inflation on all products is not a guarantee. There is a possibility some 12 years down the line that they'll have a tough time getting people into theater seats when the average person has a giant 4k - 8k TV in their living room or VR goggles. There could be some future steaming movies that completely undermine Theatergoership. Prices could plummet.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: Stratos on May 13, 2018, 01:11:29 PM
Theaters are already getting creative to counter this. MCU/Star Wars/etc marathons before a new film in a series launches is a prime example. Going to the theater is still a popular thing to go out and experience. The important thing is them adapting as media evolves. Even with a nice TV, I like to take my wife to a different locale to enjoy some time together (and maybe convince her we can get away with something else while we are there).
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 13, 2018, 01:32:53 PM
Well, those are all the very reasons I don't go to the movies anymore, all aside from the rising costs. Why would I pay $8 plus for snack to sit in an uncomfortable, crowded theater when I got an HDTV at home and a heated leather recliner?
Yeah, theaters in Texas have started putting in recliners to counter that. Fewer seats, but make them luxury items and they raised ticket prices too. Fewer seats means less money to be made so ticket prices go up. That's the future of theaters. They have no choice but to increase costs in order to make the experience better than the experience you get at home. It's been that way since TV came on the scene and forced movies to go widescreen then surround sound was added, etc. 3D worked for a while but even that's wearing off. People need an incentive to go to the theaters and raising ticket prices to cover those costs is not ideal.
They cut the number of available seats in half when they installed recliners. That trend might not have spread nationwide yet but it could.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 13, 2018, 02:16:23 PM
Well, those are all the very reasons I don't go to the movies anymore, all aside from the rising costs. Why would I pay $8 plus for snack to sit in an uncomfortable, crowded theater when I got an HDTV at home and a heated leather recliner?
It's called atmosphere. At least when it comes to BIG blockbuster movies and good horror and comedies.
Sharing in the excitement/horror/laughs of a large audience of fans in real time as it unfolds on the screen is an experience you don't really get at home. Everyone says they HATE when people talk during the movie, but have you ever been to a horror movie where they talk at the movie, and in a way that actually boost your enjoyment level? Or to a comedy that you thought was kinda funny, but it was really that couple down the row somewhere that was cracking up that finally got you to just let the laughs out and just enjoy the stupidity for what it was.
All things that you usually only find in the theater. And now that they finally upgraded those terrible seats in most theaters I go to, and allow you to pick your seat ahead of time, I actually enjoy the experience more. I don't mind paying an extra $2 a ticket to not only be comfortable, but not have to worry about where I'm gonna sit because I showed up 2 minutes before the movie started instead of 30 minutes before the previews. Time is money, and I'd rather spend a little more money to save myself the time. Not everyone feels the same way, but that's also why they still have plenty of theaters with old seats, cheap ticket prices, and probably smaller screens.
Deadpool being self-aware is the reason they could easily put him in the MCU "as-is"...but it's also the reason they can't.
It's gonna be hilarious to see him pop up eventually in random movies, be completely aware of everyone and whats going on, crack a joke, and all the MCU vets just trying to push past him like he's some mental ward escapee that getting in the way.
He could be a bridge between the rebooted X-Men and the MCU proper for all I care, but his integration as-is, needs to happen in some way or another.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 13, 2018, 02:20:40 PM
Maybe I am getting older. I don't enjoy standing in line, being crowded or any of those talking things you said. No, not me, I want to enjoy the movie in peace, to be totally immersed in the experience. To each his own I guess.
I hated the pick your own seat thing too. I want to walk into a theater and find a seat, sit down be done with it. I hate having to figure out the seating chart and planning ahead with a group of 3 or more is a pain in the ass. Maybe I am just anti social too.
I think BnM's version of Deadpool would work though. I can see that happening. I am excited either way as the X-Men are the only super heroes I really care about.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 13, 2018, 02:57:36 PM
I only go to Imax movies now...which means you buy your ticket online, choose your seat, and never stand in a line.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 13, 2018, 03:20:33 PM
Maybe I am getting older. I don't enjoy standing in line, being crowded or any of those talking things you said. No, not me, I want to enjoy the movie in peace, to be totally immersed in the experience. To each his own I guess.
I hated the pick your own seat thing too. I want to walk into a theater and find a seat, sit down be done with it. I hate having to figure out the seating chart and planning ahead with a group of 3 or more is a pain in the ass. Maybe I am just anti social too.
I think BnM's version of Deadpool would work though. I can see that happening. I am excited either way as the X-Men are the only super heroes I really care about.
To each their own. new selected seating prevents being "crowded". Knowing I'm going to an opening night. I get to choose my seat WEEKS aghead of time, pay for my ticket, and as you said.... be done with it. Now I can freely show up minutes before the movie. even stand in line for popcorn and soda and not worry about getting stuck in the very front row all the way to the edge. Actually I can show up a little early, get to my seat w/ my daughter, and then get up and take her to the bathroom during the previews, w/o even worrying that someone stole our seats before we got back. seats are assigned. I might've paid a a lil extra for that convenience, but it's worth it.
and Scream and Get Out with an enthusiastic talker at the screen was absolutely a blast in the theater. He was hilarious.
Certain comedies w/ contagious laughter can allow you to relax an know you aren't the only one laughing, even if it's mostly the other persons laugh you are laughing at more so than the scene they are laughing at.
and someone screaming at an intense/scary scene, and startling you and/or the person you are with helps you share the experience in the moment.
But if you don't enjoy none of that... well... avoid spoiler waiting for that home release. or get to that early sunday morning theater opening showing several weeks after release.
to each their own.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: oohhboy on May 13, 2018, 03:34:07 PM
I would buy my tickets online but that would be the expensive and dumb thing to do here. They charge you for the privilege to book a movie online. Plus most movies isn't exactly packed with people with zero lines and the tickets at the door is cheaper for the place I go to, up to half price depending on where else in the city to compare it to. It's is part of the same corporate chain so it isn't some independent cinema.
It's cheap enough to casually watch a movie with friends on a whim. But that is the exception, not the rule. Now if you are going to some premier for a big movie, well that is not much different than anywhere else.
I always hate it when someone says this as the vast majority of the time it's to dodge how wrong they are by trying to convert something objective to a subjective therefore no one is wrong. Your use is one of the few times I have seen it used validly.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: broodwars on May 13, 2018, 04:17:02 PM
I generally despise going to the theaters, even the new ones that have recliner seating. With as much the ticket costs, I could just buy the BluRay for not too much more 2-3 months later & enjoy the film at my own pace on my 55 in 1080p TV while lying in bed w/ my phone & computer nearby. Add on top of that Hollywood's declining interest in making anything I want to see, and the movie industry can't die soon enough to me.
I fell out of enjoying the release day crowds a long time ago.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: ThePerm on May 13, 2018, 04:26:27 PM
There is also the debate about theaters and talking in theaters. The Alamo Theaters will throw out patrons for talking during the movie. I understand talking during a movie might bother some people, but how far does that rule go? I really don't want some dead silent theater. I hear people complaining about crowds being too noisy at theaters. I kind of feel like that is the point. I like audience reaction. An often cited contrast between American and Japanese audiences was Americans would react with the movie, whearas a Japanese audience would be dead silent during a movie and only clap for approval once the movie commenced. Which, is robotic and weird. Is audience participation dying or worse shunned in the US? I've heard complainers online basically turning perfectly normal activity into taboo.
Some of my best experiences have been going to horror movies at theaters. Hearing an audience scream, cringe, and laugh is something I've always felt enhanced the experience.
I should note sometimes it is interesting being in a theater by yourself. I watched Green Inferno. I was the only person in the theater. The janitor came in when the movie was over and he looked around and I told him "you don't have to do nothing. I was the only one here. There's no trash" It was a Wednesday matinee.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 13, 2018, 05:10:21 PM
They do charge a convenience fee, and that does suck. Fortunately my friend buys almost all of my tickets. It's worth the fee to get a great seat and not wait in line though.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 13, 2018, 06:42:57 PM
I like to go to movies alone, makes things much faster, easier to co-ordinate.
Also, I think Disney ignoring the Fox stuff to pull the X-men into the MCU is probably a good thing.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 13, 2018, 07:53:33 PM
Also, I think Disney ignoring the Fox stuff to pull the X-men into the MCU is probably a good thing.
Disney is NOT going to acknowledge anything to do with the FoX-Men or Foxtastic4. Deadpool might reference it, and everyone in the MCU will look at him like he's crazy babbling non-sense, but we'll love him for it, and Marvel should absolutely continue to embrace that.
AT&T **** up Update....
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: ThePerm on May 13, 2018, 09:37:06 PM
It'd be funny if Deadpool 2 ended with Cable snapping his fingers.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for X-Mas!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 13, 2018, 09:51:59 PM
It'd be funny if Deadpool 2 ended with Cable snapping his fingers.
And then Deadpool looking around all confused... and everyone else looking around all confused, all as if they are waiting for something to happen. and then nothing does. ::fade to black:: roll credits?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: ThePerm on May 15, 2018, 12:25:14 AM
It'd be funny if Deadpool 2 ended with Cable snapping his fingers.
And then Deadpool looking around all confused... and everyone else looking around all confused, all as if they are waiting for something to happen. and then nothing does. ::fade to black:: roll credits?
yeah
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 20, 2018, 05:28:28 PM
Update from earlier post - Justin Hammer and the "real" Mandarin (well and the fake one) are still alive too.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: ShyGuy on May 20, 2018, 09:06:51 PM
I enjoy the shared audience experience of going to a movie theater.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 23, 2018, 05:00:04 PM
Comcast says it will bid on Fox, in attempt to block Disney acquisition (https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/23/17383776/comcast-21st-century-fox-deal-acquire-disney-cash-offer)
Exciting developments!
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 23, 2018, 08:56:57 PM
Comcast says it will bid on Fox, in attempt to block Disney acquisition (https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/23/17383776/comcast-21st-century-fox-deal-acquire-disney-cash-offer)
Exciting developments!
Hmmm... they seem to suggest that the AT&T merger might go thru.
I don't see anything in the article to suggest that other than
Furthermore, the proposed merger is a vertical one — that is, AT&T and Time Warner are not rivals. That could weaken the Justice Department’s call for antitrust action. A similar merger between Comcast and NBCUniversal was approved without a lawsuit in 2011, although Comcast agreed to a consent decree forbidding it from treating NBCU content more favorably than competitors on its network.
I had to look it up, but I thought Time Warner still included the cable company... but apparently that is no longer true. https://www.adweek.com/tvspy/time-warner-and-time-warner-cable-are-two-different-things/180524 (https://www.adweek.com/tvspy/time-warner-and-time-warner-cable-are-two-different-things/180524)
So hopefully the anti-trust stuff sticks, or at least drags the case out long enough that the Disney vote happens before the verdict, and therefore before the Comcast bid. Hopefully Murdoch will get the vote moved up to early June, and the AT&T/TW cast delays well into August.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 23, 2018, 09:57:29 PM
I'm wondering is Comcast is acting on speculation. Or if maybe they have some insider info either industry rumblings or if they bought some access.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 23, 2018, 10:40:32 PM
Pretty sure this still wouldn't be approved, and also Comcast's cash offer is not as good as Disney's offer because it would have to be taxed, making it actually a smaller offer - and Disney's stock is surely worth more than what Comcasdt is offering. I think Comcast it just trying to look like they have a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 23, 2018, 11:25:39 PM
AT&T still got that Cohen scandal that could muck things up, so here's to hopes that Comcast is just posturing.
Iger ain't budging though, and Murdoch already tried to explain past this to Fox shareholders about what's more valuable and what would get passed through regulation.
Although there were rumors that shareholders may ask Murdoch to "recuse" himself from negotiations due to his heavy tax implications of an all cash deal. But I think it was based off speculation more than anything.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 24, 2018, 11:12:18 AM
The AT&T scandal could totally blow over though. The longer things drag out, the more that short-term memory kicks in. Without making it sound too political, there's a really high turnover with that sort of thing these days; so if no one's going to jail, no one is going to care.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 24, 2018, 12:13:29 PM
Well.... there have been further developments on the Cohen thing, which could lead to Cohen himself cooperating, which in turn could lead to more info about the AT&T involvement.... although they already have all his data, so they probably already know all they need to know anyway.
Point being, is that it keeps staying in the news, but not specifically the AT&T involvement, so you're right, in that it might be overlooked in the public eye. But we are talking about a DOJ ruling for a court case infront of a judge where all evidence may not be presented publicly, or for public knowledge. I expect them to have all pertinent evidence, including things that were seized a month or 2 ago and testimonies that may be relevant to the case but not public knowledge.
It's all wait and see at this point, because it seems at this point, at least from a public perspective, that there are no consequences for many things at a high level ($$ = influence, Influence = Power), regardless of how much publicly know evidence exist (including on camera confessions, and suspiciously pre-emptive tweets).
AT&T Trial is in June, Disney Bid vote is in July, Comcast will supposedly make an official offer somewhere inbetween those 2 things depending on how the 1st goes. I don't expect the trail to be over in the 1st hearing, so I'm hoping the hearing gets dragged out for several months as I'm sure these types of things usually do. There is still lots of time between now and that trial date for lots of yet unknown and so far seemingly unconnected drama to somehow become very relevant and damaging to the case at hand.
::fingerscrossed::
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 24, 2018, 04:35:15 PM
I personally want the Disney deal to go through just because I want to see Marvel get as many of their characters back as they can. I also want Fox to add to the strength of the pending Disney service that I want to knock Netflix down a peg or two.
The (@p1t@li$t in me wants the Comcast deal to go through to knock Disney down a peg. Either way whatever comes out of this deal is going to shape the future of mass media for at least the next decade.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 26, 2018, 10:18:13 PM
I just read if Comcast buys Fox they will have a 60 percent share of Hulu. If Disney buys Fox they get a 60 percent share of Hulu. It seems like Hulu is going to be the biggest loser in this deal no matter what happens.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 27, 2018, 11:48:09 AM
Hulu already sucks.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 27, 2018, 11:59:54 AM
What's wrong with Hulu? I use it more than I use Netflix these days. I'm watching Seinfeld on it right now.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 27, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
Because you pay for it and you still get ads. I understand that with the live stuff, but for the on demand only it's dumb.
Edit: ok so you can pay extra for no ads. It used to be free with limited ads, and paid with no ads. Now it's paid with ads or paid more with no ads. Admittedly, I haven't used it in a long time, but is sucked when I used it last.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 27, 2018, 02:46:02 PM
Yeah, I get the no ads package, which is still the same price as Netflix. My only complaint is I'm not really a fan of the way their app is laid out, but they've got tons of great content.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: Stratos on May 27, 2018, 07:12:39 PM
Is Hulu's layout better than Amazon's? I really despise how Amazon displays their videos.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 27, 2018, 07:26:48 PM
It's definitely better than Amazon's. Really, if it just let me set it to default to open straight to the My Stuff page when I open it instead of having to go through the trouble of navigating to it every time I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 27, 2018, 09:36:24 PM
I don't care for Hulu's UI, personally.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 28, 2018, 08:09:54 PM
Hulu's UI is better than Amazon but their catalog is not as good.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 29, 2018, 11:57:19 AM
I don't really understand all this, but the summary of it all is that if Comcast continues to pursue the ALL CASH bid for SKY and for 21CF, They will likely get their credit downgraded, meaning they become a lender risk and that is bad for their bottom line and their shareholders.... http://www.philly.com/philly/business/comcast/comcast-fox-disney-sky-netflix-20180523.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/business/comcast/comcast-fox-disney-sky-netflix-20180523.html)
Basically Comcast is putting itself at risk pursuing this deal, even if the deal gets rejected. Shareholders may not want to continue watching their stocks drop and then the company credit rating get downgraded on top of that....
Maybe someone with a deeper understanding can explain it in laymans terms for the rest of us.
edit: Some additional articles -AT&T Merger in trouble? https://nypost.com/2018/05/28/antitrust-professor-att-time-warner-merger-is-in-trouble/
-Disney lining up financing in case Fox Shareholders demand some Cash? https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/29/disney-lines-up-financing-in-case-fox-board-demands-cash-sources.html
Looks like Disney is ready to make this happen and quickly and smoothly as possible.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 29, 2018, 01:36:45 PM
Them getting desperate sounds like someone losing at Monopoly when they mortgage all their property to buy hotels on the purple properties only to lose the game 3 rounds later.
Cash is the better deal though. The problem with a stock deal is the stock could burst and then both companies sink. With a cash deal they could use that money to invest in other companies and get a better return on their investment, the Fox shareholders not Comcast.
It sounds like, as much as you hate Comcast BnM, it might be better for them to buy Fox and then sink into oblivion that much faster. Then Disney can snatch up the Marvel IP for dirt cheap and walk away the real winners. Okay not going to happen, this whole deal sucks no matter which of these two companies win.
I would be happier if Fox just went bankrupt and auctioned off all their properties but they aren't selling because of financial need they are selling so Murdock and focus on the news side without the distraction of giving a **** what the X-Men are doing.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 29, 2018, 02:01:46 PM
I don't really understand all this, but the summary of it all is that if Comcast continues to pursue the ALL CASH bid for SKY and for 21CF, They will likely get their credit downgraded, meaning they become a lender risk and that is bad for their bottom line and their shareholders.... http://www.philly.com/philly/business/comcast/comcast-fox-disney-sky-netflix-20180523.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/business/comcast/comcast-fox-disney-sky-netflix-20180523.html)
Basically Comcast is putting itself at risk pursuing this deal, even if the deal gets rejected. Shareholders may not want to continue watching their stocks drop and then the company credit rating get downgraded on top of that....
Maybe someone with a deeper understanding can explain it in laymans terms for the rest of us.
So, if Comcast buys Fox is an all-cash deal, they'll basically have to do so "on credit". They're gonna borrow most of the cash. So, they're balance sheet is gonna gain huge assets from Fox, but also a HUGE liability. Whereas if they already had the cash, it'd be one asset for another. Creditors tend to look at certain ratios to decide how credit worthy a potential borrower is, and flipping their balance sheet like that would throw those ratios off. Additionally, while the new assets will drive up their cash flows (form operations, presumably), the interest on the debt will drive it down. Which means they make have trouble paying off any new debt they'd take on after the purchase.
To compare, Disney is doing a primarily stock deal hits their balance sheet differently. That's gonna bump their equity and assets.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 29, 2018, 10:30:41 PM
Cash is the better deal though. The problem with a stock deal is the stock could burst and then both companies sink. With a cash deal they could use that money to invest in other companies and get a better return on their investment, the Fox shareholders not Comcast.
Actually all the analyst say that All Cash IS NOT the better deal, as the cash comes with HEAVY tax implications, especially for Murdoch. You see the cash, then you get taxed, and then there goes X% of your cash.... I don't believe the same issues arise with stock trades, which are actually poised to become even more valuable with time.
And thanks for the further explanation Nickmitch. I had a general idea of what was going on, but that cleared it up quite a bit.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 30, 2018, 11:26:39 AM
Cash is the better deal though. The problem with a stock deal is the stock could burst and then both companies sink. With a cash deal they could use that money to invest in other companies and get a better return on their investment, the Fox shareholders not Comcast.
Actually all the analyst say that All Cash IS NOT the better deal, as the cash comes with HEAVY tax implications, especially for Murdoch. You see the cash, then you get taxed, and then there goes X% of your cash.... I don't believe the same issues arise with stock trades, which are actually poised to become even more valuable with time.
And thanks for the further explanation Nickmitch. I had a general idea of what was going on, but that cleared it up quite a bit.
Except you get taxed twice on stocks, for the sale and for any growth so it's all the same. I just meant the share holders could reinvest that cash into Disney shares and come out well better off.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 30, 2018, 11:51:17 AM
Fox shareholders are voting on the Disney sale in July.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on May 31, 2018, 11:45:12 AM
So, at least another month of fun times!
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on May 31, 2018, 05:35:43 PM
WHy can't Disney just buy the Marvel characters and let Comcast have the rest. Besides the Simpsons what does Fox really have of value anyways? They cancel every single show they produce it seems too soon to even build a following.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 31, 2018, 08:36:12 PM
I don't even want to get into a discussion about all the things that is wrong with Comcast gaining even more of a foothold in any industry it is interested in.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on June 01, 2018, 12:03:50 PM
WHy can't Disney just buy the Marvel characters and let Comcast have the rest. Besides the Simpsons what does Fox really have of value anyways? They cancel every single show they produce it seems too soon to even build a following.
The marvel characters are big money, but owning another network is also huge. They're getting everything in that Sunday lineup, day time NFL games, and local sports networks. Fox mismanaging their shows is something that's easily fixable, once you own them. Also, you're not just getting TV, you're getting a film studio and their indy film distribution imprint. This will also include the original Star Wars movies, which can be digitally remastered without all the special effects added later and resold to possibly millions of grateful nerds.
I don't even want to get into a discussion about all the things that is wrong with Comcast gaining even more of a foothold in any industry it is interested in.
Yeah, **** Comcast. I feel this way about most cable companies, but 90% of my friends say they are crooks.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 01, 2018, 06:40:54 PM
I get the benefits to Disney, I meant why can't Fox just sell the Marvel stuff to Disney and offer everything else to Comcast.
Why the $*&% is it such a terrible sin for Comcast to grow into an unstoppable corporate blog but it's okay for Disney to own a monopoly of our entertainment? I think from a free market perspective I would rather Disney be stopped from getting total control over the film industry.
Also, you seem to operate under the assumption Disney is going to keep things going business as usual and save the Simpons, I don't, it does not fit their culture I see it getting axed. Along with Family Guy and anything in that sort of comedy. Disney doesn't need Fox, they are buying it for the control over the media industry. I would prefer Fox go out of business and auction off their assets to the highest bidder in small blocks. However, they aren't selling because of financial difficulties they are selling because Murdock wants to flex his media muscle and needs the cash and wants to cut the dead weight. I fully understand what they are getting I just am far more worried Disney getting the stuff than Comcast.It sounds to me like those opposing the Comcast deal are doing so exclusively on hating their internet service, you do realize their service isn't going to get any worse just because they buy crap, a shitty company is a shitty company but I don't see what their internet interests has to do with anything, at all. Now I personally would rather Universal get control of the Fantastic Four, Aliens, and Avatar franchises than Disney. In a perfect world I would want Disney to just get the Marvel assets because then they still have competition in the sci-fi and fantasy market, DC notwithstanding.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 01, 2018, 06:51:09 PM
Neither one of them is a good outcome, this is a "lesser of two evils" situation.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 01, 2018, 06:57:53 PM
Neither one of them is a good outcome, this is a "lesser of two evils" situation.
But is it? Wouldn't Universal be a better steward of the Fox properties than Disney? Disney is going to ax everything that doesn't fit their culture, that's literally everything that isn't Marvel anyway. They get to collect fat royalty checks off back catalog but I am not convinced they keep the R rated stuff alive. Disney might not even keep Deadpool going.
If Disney buys Fox, then the shows ABC cancelled that move to Fox stay cancelled. If NBC buys Fox then the shows ABC canceled move to Fox and have a chance to flourish.
No, you are right there is no ideal situation I just think for REAL science fiction, Universal has the better resources than the House of Mouse. Remember Disney has NEVER successfully launched an original boys line, they just keep buying them up. They have Marvel and Star Wars, that's it for science fiction. I haven't seen any evidence they an do real, or good, sci-fi like Universal can.
I don't see Disney keeping Aliens alive, nor Avatar. You think they want a tentpole Sci-Fi blockbuster competing with Star Wars? Yeah they want the money it will generate but I don't want their watered down sci-fi at all.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 01, 2018, 07:40:35 PM
Disney doesn't just "buy the Marvel characters" because they aren't for sale.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 01, 2018, 08:42:22 PM
Disney doesn't just "buy the Marvel characters" because they aren't for sale.
I know that. I am saying that would be a better deal. If they can't just get the Marvel characters there is NO WAY they are better stewards of the Fox catalog. Everything of value that isn't sports or Marvel is getting axed anyways. That is going to happen. Disney will not fund shows that do not reflect their corporate image.
The only benefit for Disney getting Fox is them taking ownership of the characters. ALso, how do you do know the Marvel characters aren't for sale? We don't know what the shareholders will decide to do with two bidders on the table. There is every bit a realistic chance they sit all three parties down to negotiate. Nobody knows what will happen. Even I am speculating the negative of Disney getting the Aliens and Simpsons just like bNM is speculating how bad Comcast will be if they get more assets.
All we do know is fans want Disney to get the Marvel characters, Disney is not likely to keep anything around that they don't like and Universal makes better sci-fi movies.
All I was saying is the perfect outcome would be Disney buys the Marvel characters, let Comcast get the rest. Disney already has ESPN and ABC Sports, the government could block the sale altogether on the conflict of them taking over all those FOx sports markets.
In my opinion, Comcast is the better suitor. Even if it means the Fantastic Four and X-Men don't join the MCU, fine by me the MCU is too damn bloated as it is.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 01, 2018, 08:55:27 PM
Just briefly....
Comcast controls the access to the internet for a large portion on the US. Comcast faked consumer accounts and put through big money to kill Net Neutrality. Net Neutrality keeps our internet a free and fair playground. Comcast already strong armed Netflix to cough up more cash so its users could experience HD streaming consistently. Their next plan was to sell tiered internet packages to access your favorite sites. They also lobby to be the only game in town (like every other old school service provider) so they don't have to compete on speed or prices
And I'm only scratching the surface on their shady deals...
So what do you think Comcast will do once they get a ton of new content, channels, IP, studios?
Hint: it involves hostage taking of access.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 01, 2018, 09:28:20 PM
I outlined content related reasons why I prefer Comcast, your rebuttal is controversial political rants based on your obvious personal stake. I was just coming in here to point out ABC is discussing rebooting the Roseanne reboot without Roseanne.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 02, 2018, 01:49:57 AM
controversial political rants based on my obvious personal stake.... ummm ok.
But you came into the Disney buying Fox thread to discuss Roseanne getting a reboot. Not sure what that has to do with anything in this thread... but whatever.
Quote
The only benefit for Disney getting Fox is them taking ownership of the characters.
This is laughable. I'm not even sure where to begin. I didn't even want to get into this argument, as I still have yet to see a reasonable thought based in fact that supports Comcast being a better suitor for 21CF over Disney (since those are the only 2 options in play)... actually haven't even seen a good reason why Comcast would be a good suitor at all, let alone a better one than Disney. Let's see where do I begin.....
If Disney buys 21CF they will likely do the exact same thing they did with Pixar, Marvel, and Lucasfilm (the 3 previous studio acquisitions Disney made), let them run mostly autonomously but under the shadow of the Disney Marketing umbrella.
There might be a little reshuffling as certain people will now be reporting to someone direct at the top of Disney, but with the addition of the FX, FXX, National Geographic, a bag full of sports channels (to probably be rebranded under ESPN) and the Fox network channel (?) there will be plenty of room for all the shows that Fox already has in place.
what happens if Comcast takes control of all that.... well just look at the many examples of them already strong-arming the competition, like whey they upped the channel package price for NBC/Universal and related channels to other cable providers? What do you think happens to your "AT&T/Charter/Verizon/Other random Cable provider" bill when Comcast now has all the NBC/Universal channels, all the Fox Channels and ALL those Fox Sports channels? What about the price of a Hulu subscription if you aren't an Xfinity member?
Trust me, you're looking at a very small piece of the puzzle when there is a much larger picture to be viewed if you just zoom out a little.
Disney is by far the better option over Comcast. Nothing good comes out of Comcast gaining control over so much content when they've shown numerous ways they choose to abuse that power of the people and other companies that wish to access it. And I didn't even mention all the SkyTv and other overseas stuff they were aiming for that are part of this Fox deal.
p.s.
Quote
I don't see Disney keeping Aliens alive, nor Avatar. You think they want a tentpole Sci-Fi blockbuster competing with Star Wars?
If you think Disney is gonna tell Fox not to make another Alien movie, or even crazier, that they are going to shelve Avatar, that just lets us all know that you have NO IDEA what you are even debating here. (p.s. Fox doesn't own Avatar... James Cameron does. JC decides when a new movie gets made, Fox has production and marketing rights to the movie, JC's studio still makes it) Disney just spent something like a BILLION $$ on Pandora aka Avatarland at a Disney Adventure park. Part of the reason for buying Fox is to get those production rights to Avatar and double down on their investment. https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/destinations/animal-kingdom/pandora-world-of-avatar/ (https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/destinations/animal-kingdom/pandora-world-of-avatar/)
and if Fox can get it together and produce good Predator and Alien movies, they will be more motivated to make them actually good and profitable as they have to live up to the Lucasfilm and Marvel examples set before them if they wish to stay autonomous.
p.s.s.
Quote
Why the $*&% is it such a terrible sin for Comcast to grow into an unstoppable corporate blog but it's okay for Disney to own a monopoly of our entertainment?
Please explain what you believe a monopoly to be, and how Disney owning all of Fox's IP to be a monopoly on anything? There is nothing stopping you from not watching anything Disney is producing and instead go enjoy your Comcast/Universal made Sci-Fi movies and Sony/[insert countless other current and future studios] made films, cartoons, TV shows and content.
p.s.s.
Quote
Also, you seem to operate under the assumption Disney is going to keep things going business as usual and save the Simpons, I don't, it does not fit their culture I see it getting axed. Along with Family Guy and anything in that sort of comedy. Disney doesn't need Fox, they are buying it for the control over the media industry.
A lot of things will change at Fox, such as: - All their sports will move to ESPN and be under the new streaming service ESPN+ - All Marvel Properties will return to Marvel Studios (Deadpool will remain an R rated property as well... probably under the Fox banner... or whatever it becomes) - Star Wars: ANH rights will return to Lucasfilm - Avatar production rights will go directly to Disney - Everything else that 21CF handles will still be handled by them, and Iger was even keen enough to specifically call out Fox Searchlight for their lower budget indie style movies to be kept fully intact as is.
oh and the Simpsons has been on forever. If it can't stay profitable/entertaining/interesting/funny, just let it die already, the creators will move onto something new that hopefully will be just as good if not better.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on June 02, 2018, 02:08:58 AM
Disney has no control over access. They have influence in their ability to negotiate with providers, but that's really it. Comcast controlling media and your ability to access it is bad because they've demonstrated a willingness to abuse that power.
And Disney has no real reason to cancel the Simpsons. Unless the ratings absolutely tank, keeping the Simpsons going gives them room to leverage the property in other ways. Look at Star Wars. They may have to fight Universal for the theme park rights, but it's probably worth it since Simpsons are under-leveraged at best.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 02, 2018, 02:43:48 AM
I think I forgot to mention how big the acquisition of all the Fox Sports networks and regional channels are....
Quote
The only benefit for Disney getting Fox is them taking ownership of the characters.
with all the FS1 channels available on ESPN+, it will literally become the #1 place to go for sports world wide (in the US atleast.. nationwide!?) OVERNIGHT. I don't have the numbers, but I'm sure that alone is more potential money than Marvel or Lucasfim has brought in to date (combined?).
All the content and subscribers for SkyTV in Europe.... I don't know too much about this portion of the deal, but Fox I believe already owns a portion, and has a bid for the rest of it. Disney is prepared to cover that bid should Comcast not spoil it.... Although Comcast is really hungry for SkyTV as well, and that's a big part of why they want to spoil Disney's party here.
I believe there was also some assets in Australia that were kinda a big deal (to those in AUS atleast), so believe me this is much more than just buying characters.
Marvel getting the majority of their IP back is just what excites me the most, being the resident MCU Fanboy around here. But this is SOOOOO much larger than Marvel characters, Avatar production rights, The Simpsons and Family guy.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 12:20:50 PM
Disney doesn't just "buy the Marvel characters" because they aren't for sale.
I know that. I am saying that would be a better deal. If they can't just get the Marvel characters there is NO WAY they are better stewards of the Fox catalog. Everything of value that isn't sports or Marvel is getting axed anyways. That is going to happen. Disney will not fund shows that do not reflect their corporate image.
The only benefit for Disney getting Fox is them taking ownership of the characters. ALso, how do you do know the Marvel characters aren't for sale? We don't know what the shareholders will decide to do with two bidders on the table. There is every bit a realistic chance they sit all three parties down to negotiate. Nobody knows what will happen. Even I am speculating the negative of Disney getting the Aliens and Simpsons just like bNM is speculating how bad Comcast will be if they get more assets.
All we do know is fans want Disney to get the Marvel characters, Disney is not likely to keep anything around that they don't like and Universal makes better sci-fi movies.
All I was saying is the perfect outcome would be Disney buys the Marvel characters, let Comcast get the rest. Disney already has ESPN and ABC Sports, the government could block the sale altogether on the conflict of them taking over all those FOx sports markets.
In my opinion, Comcast is the better suitor. Even if it means the Fantastic Four and X-Men don't join the MCU, fine by me the MCU is too damn bloated as it is.
I said opinion as in this is how I see it. No need to call my intelligence into question. I see it different than you.
Moving the Fox stuff to ESPN and eliminating COMPETITION IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF A MONOPOLY THEY ALREADY OWN ABC, WHO ELSE ISD OING SPORTS NOW AFTER THIS DEAL? NOBODY!
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 02, 2018, 01:04:58 PM
CBS, NBC (Comcast), TBS (Time Warner)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 02, 2018, 01:07:04 PM
Also, I'm pretty sure this deal only includes Fox's regional sports networks. Disney wouldn't get Fox Sports 1 and other national networks.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: oohhboy on June 02, 2018, 02:50:17 PM
The buyouts affect things of real overwhelming importance than some superheroes and the continuation of the Simpsons isn't a consideration. I am sorry if people seem to be dog piling you but your opinion about entertainment is moot and irrelevant given the real stakes.
The mergers and how they happen will shake the very foundations of American internet infrastructure and how you interact with it at all levels. The impact can be large enough to concern foreign interests and governments in deciding whether they are willing to shape their bit of the internet according to this experiment.
Net neutrality is fundamental to the internet, it is part of what makes the internet the internet. It is inescapably political in America as policy isn't driven by technical requirements by experts in the relevant field, but by parties not interested in the public good instead look to profit and plunder to everyone's detriment under the cover of farcical ideology.
For everybody this must be the overriding factor. People aren't engaging in political rants, they are statements of the real consequences of immense importance.
As far as entertainment goes if you put out **** people will walk away no matter how strong your brand or how many connected IP you hold. Look at Star Wars and how people are happily walking away from it, even rejoicing it is burning down to spite the creators releasing such farcical products. MCU face the same dangers no matter how many x-men they have.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 03:26:38 PM
Pile on all you want, you know I am used to it. But you are wrong, there are NO STAKES as you claim, the internet existed for over 30 years before there was net neutrality. End of discussion. You can say that it isn't political all you want but it clearly is.
What is at stake? Fox doesn't own ANY infrastructure whatsoever, how does Comcast buying them give them more infrastructure? You're not familiar with how the government works obviously. If there is real issues with one company controlling the content and the content delivery they will just break it up, I have faith that will take place long before the internet apocalypse from removing a policy that ONLY EXISTED FOR 3 YEARS anyways. What are the "real stakes" all I read from you is an entitled claim you should have access to other people's content without having to pay market fair prices for it. If you want to use toll road do you deserve or are you entitled to a free pass because you think it is unfair someone with more money than you can afford to pay the toll prices? No of course not, if you do leave this thread because that is a political divide not worth breaking. Yes I fully expected to be piled on, there is a long history of people of a certain political persuasion using scare tactics and threats to silence others with opposing views.
I brought up Roseanne because it sure as hell is relevant. I mentioned they would cancel the Simpsons (and Family Guy plus who knows whatelse) doesn't fit their culture. They don't care if it makes money, Roseanne was the highest rated show out there, it was a FREE ATM that directly deposited cash into ABC. They canceled it over a tweet.
Even if they don't cancel the Simpson's, which I ONLY brought up because it was defended earlier as Disney being better at managing them than Fox, which I think is wrong and false.
Again, what are the real stakes? You have to pay more money for your internet? How is that bad? You should have to pay more for those things. You're going to pay more for movie tickets once Disney controls 90 percent of the blockbuster movie slate. They already own 75 percent of it as is. Deadpool had a REAL impact on the sales of Solo, as of right now Deadpool is a competing property that allowed the free market to hurt a Disney property and make money for their competition. If Deadpool had belong to Disney, then there would be no impact on Star Wars, Disney would shrug it off as they owned the whole damn market they get all the money anyways. Back when the Studios did control the theaters the government did force them to break apart. Why do you think that won't happen here? See I know why it is, fundamental differences in political ideologies. You say my opinion doesn't matter.
It's not just my opinion, it's based on facts. The fact is they buy Fox they get more content. So what? AS of right now Universal might as well not even exist, outside of Jurassic Park what tentpole blockbusters do they have? As of right now it's Disney competing against Fox with Universal and Sony fighting for the scraps. Even Sony had to play with Disney over Spider-Man. Sony would have been better off flipping Disney and the MCU the bird.
Other than YOU personally having to pay more for access to content, as the free market should dictate, what is the real impact? Disney controlling everything means they will ruin the Simpons if they don't cancel it. They will not do Sci-Fi as good as Fox or Universal. They will strong arm the theaters and they will have leverage over Comcast. If it goes the other way Comcast gains no leverage over Disney. Disney gets all the power and leverage and consumers suffer, if Disney gets Fox.
If Comcast gets fox, let me be clear it's not ideal either, it's just less worrisome than if Disney does.
You just dismiss my opinion because of who I am. You don't care I am educated on this, you dismiss my opinion based on my political view. You don't care I work in the media business and I know at least as much as you about this, not claiming I know more.
You dismiss my views because you assume your unfounded fears of an internet apocalypse that never happened for the 35+ years BEFORE your beloved controversial policy existed carries more weight than my rational realization that the sky isn't falling. You also don't see ABC/FOX joining forces would give Disney too much leverage when it comes to bidding on games, or even the Super Bowl? (Yes *I* recognize NBC getting the same leverage is also bad like I said it's not ideal) but. you, me, nobody on here knows if the government is even going to approve this deal. FOx might just have to spin off into a separate company and nobody buys it.
What *I* know is the government stepped in when Comcast was going to gain control of Hulu and they put a stop to that. I know they will break them up if they get to powerful. I am not worried they will get too powerful because history has shown higher forces will stop them. So yes your fears are unfounded but I didn't dismiss them, or you out right as stupid, or belittle you.
I also am well aware Disney can, and does, work with other companies to, their advantage, to better their parks. Using that a proof they won't cancel the Simspons or ruin Avatar is silly. Who cares if they allow Cameron to make Avatar if they force him to tie it into the MCU? I care. But that's it. The truth is NONE of this really matters, you are wrong the stakes are in your head. All that really matters is one "evil corporation" is bidding against another for the assets of a third.
You are also wrong in how it will affect me. I have Dish network., Which, I am sure you know, can be accessed in EVERY SINGLE market Comcast serves and they offer broadband internet, so Comcast has competition anyways, you fail lets end this now before ugly things get said.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 04:05:32 PM
Just briefly.... Comcast controls the access to the internet for a large portion on the US. No they don't that is a flat out lie. Every single market Comcast exists in they have competition. There is always a local wireless provider, ATT/Verizon/T Mobile; there is a land line phone company; Frontier, Verizon, etc; there is terrestrial satellite operators, Dish Network and DirectTV, and most of the time a small, local cable company desperate for customers. They control nothing.
Comcast faked consumer accounts and put through big money to kill Net Neutrality.Net Neutrality keeps our internet a free and fair playground. Those are political arguments. Net Neutrality only existed for 3 years. The internet worked fine before it and hey looks like it's working fine now without it.
Comcast already strong armed Netflix to cough up more cash so its users could experience HD streaming consistently. SO what? I have a web server, if I want faster, higher bandwidth I have to pay for it, why can't Netflix pay for it too? I mean they are the ones clogging the lines why shouldn't they have to pay for it?
Their next plan was to sell tiered internet packages to access your favorite sites.Was it? Source? I am not going to argue good or bad, just I want a source saying they admitted to doing or wanting to do this. Second, so? They charge more money for HBO and CNN right now, so what? You want content you should pay for it.
They also lobby to be the only game in town (like every other old school service provider) so they don't have to compete on speed or prices But they are never the only game in town. They have direct competition in every single operation.
And I'm only scratching the surface on their shady deals... No, all you are doing is showing your bias. Especially using the word shady. It demonstrates your political slant. I don't see anything shady, I see businesses competing in the corporate world using their assets to their personal advantage, something they are well within their rights to do.
So what do you think Comcast will do once they get a ton of new content, channels, IP, studios?
Hint: it involves hostage taking of access. There was a time when the studios, which there were fewer than we have now, owned directly the theaters and the government broke them up. What you call hostage taking I call free market.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 04:11:03 PM
what happens if Comcast takes control of all that.... well just look at the many examples of them already strong-arming the competition, like whey they upped the channel package price for NBC/Universal and related channels to other cable providers? What do you think happens to your "AT&T/Charter/Verizon/Other random Cable provider" bill when Comcast now has all the NBC/Universal channels, all the Fox Channels and ALL those Fox Sports channels? What about the price of a Hulu subscription if you aren't an Xfinity member?
Trust me, you're looking at a very small piece of the puzzle when there is a much larger picture to be viewed if you just zoom out a little.
Wrong, you are just biased and I am trying to be reasonable. So what if they charge more? Your entire argument is based on entitlement. You act like you are owed content to you, I disagree. Content costs money to produce they have a right to charge for it. They have a right to charge a premium for it. HBO costs extra. I am sure you have no problem paying extra for HBO because you want access to the titties. You want titties you have for it. If you want Simpsons you have to pay extra for it, I see nothing wrong with that. I see the market doing what it is supposed to.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 02, 2018, 04:12:24 PM
You keep saying net neutrality has only been around for three years, but that's a pretty disingenuous argument. Net neutrality was the de facto standard of the internet for most of its existence. It only became written into the law once providers started violating the principle that had been in place the whole time.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 04:15:19 PM
You keep saying net neutrality has only been around for three years, but that's a pretty disingenuous argument. Net neutrality was the de facto standard of the internet for most of its existence. It only became written into the law once providers started violating the principle that had been in place the whole time.
Times change. The market changes. The world changes. I think you are over stating it. Maybe you forgot what it was like when you had to go through AOL or Compuserve to get to the internet. No, we have more choices now than we did then. I have Firefox onmy computer and I refuse to install Chrome.
Comcast, HughesNet, Time Warner, they have NO SAY in which web browser I use. AOL mandated I use their browser.
There is a reason Compuserve and AOL are long gone. Because the free market refused to be bullied by them. The free market will prevail again if Comcast gets too powerful. Period.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 04:21:26 PM
Now we're one step closer into arguing content rights over entitlements. This topic cannot be discussed without it getting political.
Not if we go beyond talking who owns the Marvel characters, which I tried to keep it limited to. It is ideology. I believe I proved that. Now can we get back to talking about a Fantastic Four movie directed by Stephan Spielburg and forget about who is unwilling to do their research in finding an alternative provider?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: oohhboy on June 02, 2018, 04:22:09 PM
Net neutrality has always been implied and worked as the standard, a principle, the foundation, the goal, the status quo until of late as companies seek to exploit this lack of rules hence why it had to be implemented formally. Previously the political environment was resistant enough to exploitation despite the lack of rules however this is no longer true.
American internet already suffers from very exploitive market manipulation, just because it is your "normal" it doesn't mean it is right or dictated by so called open market forces.
Virtually everywhere else fibre to the door or steps to greater access and speeds is the standard. Not being forced to sign up for unwanted services is the standard. Not having your internet being restricted in anyway is the standard. Not paying unreasonable prices is the standard. Having access to more than one viable provider with the same performance is standard. It is provided for no different than power or water or the trash pickup.
In some places access is considered a right and efforts taken to provide it for free much like sustenance, shelter, power, knowledge, healthcare, liberty and life for those without as it is that fundamental to how humanity has changed. When I mean free, I mean free from interference also. Facebook had offered "free" access to India but on the condition that it restricted what sites could be accessed and it was rejected.
That is the standard.
I honestly 110% don't know or care about your political leanings. This applies to every single person in this forum no matter how heated it gets, we have always walked away a little wiser. People take great pains not to reveal this nor do they seek it and for that I thank them. If nothing else it saves me the trouble of forgetting.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 02, 2018, 04:27:51 PM
Now we're one step closer into arguing content rights over entitlements. This topic cannot be discussed without it getting political.
Not if we go beyond talking who owns the Marvel characters, which I tried to keep it limited to. It is ideology. I believe I proved that. Now can we get back to talking about a Fantastic Four movie directed by Stephan Spielburg and forget about who is unwilling to do their research in finding an alternative provider?
You're the one calling people entitled and claiming it's about politics. You're the one saying passive aggressive bullshit and making untrue claims about internet history and how widespread true competition in internet providers. If you don't like the way this conversation is going, you are free to not come into this thread.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 02, 2018, 04:41:09 PM
AOL didn't mandate you use their browser, you just had to use it to connect to the internet. Back when I had AOL I would just connect, minimize, and use IE.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: oohhboy on June 02, 2018, 04:49:42 PM
iirc AOL wasn't the internet in the beginning. While it ran over the same basic infrastructure AOL was restricted to it's Intranet. It wasn't until later that you could access the open internet via an AOL connection like you meantoned which wasn't standard practice either.
Dialup internet is normally handled at the system level where the OS called the provider not a separate application. If such functionality was missing the ISP would provide without charge completely neutral third party software to do this.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 07:12:02 PM
Now we're one step closer into arguing content rights over entitlements. This topic cannot be discussed without it getting political.
Not if we go beyond talking who owns the Marvel characters, which I tried to keep it limited to. It is ideology. I believe I proved that. Now can we get back to talking about a Fantastic Four movie directed by Stephan Spielburg and forget about who is unwilling to do their research in finding an alternative provider?
You're the one calling people entitled and claiming it's about politics. You're the one saying passive aggressive bullshit and making untrue claims about internet history and how widespread true competition in internet providers. If you don't like the way this conversation is going, you are free to not come into this thread.
No, I was pointing out how it is a political issue and using the extremist view to illustrate that. I was proving that if one person held one political view they would assume people opposing them were entitled. I wasn't directly accusing anyone. Passive aggressive fine, better than dogpiling on the unpopular opinion. Which it is just opinion.
Again it is political and I was proving that by pointing out the arguments used in opposition. I just wanted to talk about the Marvel characters and look back I didn't dismiss anyone as ignorant or flippantly call someone stupid like the person I reported. No sir, I remained civil. I am still civil. I am not calling people names or losing my temper. I am defending my position and my points are being dismissed as inferior to the opinions of others.
Again, all of the anti-Comcast claims are based on speculation. Things that cannot be proven
True or false, if you have Comcast in your neighborhood you have access to Dish Network or Direct TV as an alternative for TV?
Maybe you are not willing to switch from Comcast to Dish or DirecTV but you certain do have the choice.
I used the word entitled because it fits. The argument is based on a feeling people are automatically owed faster internet, and all those things Oohboy mentioned, using words like standard practice, status quo, etc., In their view having to pay extra for those services is deemed unacceptable and that is a political ideology. There is even a word for it. I chose the least offensive term I could think of. There are two political views on this subject. One that opposes government interference and one that expects it. I won't make assumptions about your political views but if you deny those are political arguments then you are in denial. If someone doesn't like Comcast they certainly do, in 100 percent of the cases, have access to an alternative. Just because that person doesn't like the alternative doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Thus the negative term was used. Why? Okay I guess I will spell it out.
If you live in City A where Comcast offers 100 meg speeds of internet and their competition is Hughs Net offering 50 meg speeds and your argument is I shouldn't have to choose between paying more money for the faster speed, that is an entitlement attitude meaning they believe they are entitled to faster internet but not required to pay extra for it. I am not talking about welfare or healthcare here, we are talking about a belief that internet is a "basic right" or something (correct me if I am wrong that is the way it comes off to me) if that is not the argument, then what is the issue? Again, just because you do not think Dish or DirecTV count as true alternatives doesn't change the fact they exist and offer a comparable service. Do you sometimes have to pay extra for certain channels? Okay, but so?
If you want HBO you have to pay extra for it. There was a time when you had to pay extra for the Disney channel and Discovery too. So technology evolved. Now we have access to more channels, more internet, more services and some people make it sound like the provider of their choice is their only option.
You do know you could get internet from other providers and cut the cord too right? There is YouTube, there is IPTV, Playstation has an option, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, those are alternatives to Comcast. (Except for their stake in Hulu) Why should I have to leave? I was the one who was told my opinion isn't valid and attacked for daring to express an opposing opinion. You are flat wrong. I did not insult anyone, I was insulted and as typical the same gang of bullies jumped on me and I knew it would happen that is why I edited my first post, that is why *I* stayed out of the politics until it was forced on me with not one, not two, but four different posters, the moderator whose job is to enforce the rules being one of them. The very fact someone views it differently proves it is a divisive and controversial political argument. The rule wasn't broken by me, I DEFENDED my political views which I shouldn't have had to do the offending post should have been deleted and my post dodging the politics shouldn't have been attacked with accusations my opinion doesn't matter.
I, am sorry, for getting defensive. But knowing the history and everything else, I would expect that you would have agreed it is a political matter because it gets discussed as a political topic and there is this
The impact can be large enough to concern foreign interests and governments in deciding whether they are willing to shape their bit of the internet according to this experiment.That is a political statement. Just because you agree with it and dismiss anyone whose opinion is different doesn't make it less of a political statement.
Let me demonstrate how.
One ideology, thinks the United States, a sovereign world super power, has some underlying interest in placating foreign powers,The other ideology believes the Unite States, as a sovereign world super power, has no obligation to take world affairs into consideration.
I didn't state which ideology I subscribe to. I merely pointed out it is, in fact, political based. This isn't the same as arguing should Nintendo release a new F Zero or is the N64 Mini a good idea or not, those are politically neutral discussion, discussing corporate mergers then getting into debates over the merits, or lack thereof, of a government policy that was, by some, politicized.
It's not the same as saying, anyone who subscribes to ideology A is a, insert insult here, I didn't do that, *I* didn't, initially, dismiss anyone's opinion. Again, is in't it bad form to tell the person with the unpopular opinion they should leave instead of saying, listen folks this person was right to express their concerns and maybe we should respect that instead of further antagonizing.
Instead you point out my fault and dismiss the two people who dismissed me. Business as usual. Again, I get it, they are your friends you tend to side with them and only enforce the rules when someone blows up. I am not going to be bullied into exploding. I am not going to be baited into throwing insults or using harsh language.
What I am going to do is say in this case, all I did was have an unpopular opinion, defended it and was told my opinions don't matter.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: ThePerm on June 02, 2018, 07:14:14 PM
I'm going to predict the future. Disney buying Fox doesn't matter much to consumer in the long run. Fox has limited now second tier comic properties and a handful of interesting sci-fi properties that experience diminishing returns. The only thing these diminishing returns properties can do is experience better management.
If consumers become unhappy with this they can still play with sticks and rocks outside or read a book inside.
The market creates room. More people are speaking English. VHS was amazing.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 07:29:38 PM
Fine, I guess Dish Network doesn't exist. I must have been hallucinating.
Just that, explain to me how Dish doesn't compete with Comcast? Explain to me how a person who is unhappy with Comcast, if this is true why aren't more people leaving them? They must be doing something right.
If even 10 percent of their customers switched to Dish they would take notice. I seem to remember the internet being all up in arms over Time Warner cable being garbage, (usually based on customer service or not liking the pricing) which, okay even if you don't think is a political argument fine I'll side step that and remind those same people Time Warner cable is no longer the "enemy" it's now Comcast.
I ask why? Oohboy made complaints. I dismissed them based on his dismissal of mine.
We cannot debate those topics without getting into political discussion.
Because it is ideology.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 07:33:36 PM
The fact nobody who opposes this is coming forward proves how political it is. The united front who always get away with their bullying speak up, act smug and then everyone else hides in the shadows shaking their heads, holding their tongues because they know *I* will be the one banned and they won't risk a banning for speaking out. Then when I do get banned for having enough being the ONLY ONE who has to defend their vies, a certain person will start a celebratory thread claiming victory like they always do. I've been down this road before. I am just trying to keep it civil. Again, I am the only one having to defend my points of view and I was the only one told my opinions don't matter and are uninformed.
Again, making a reply stating unfair this or untrue that, isn't relevant. It doesn't matter if my opinion is based in the same logic as yours or if it is based on an ideology I would have to not only disclose but double down on to defend? I shouldn't have to have this discussion. The government is politics period. Discussing or debating a government policy is politics. That isn't delusional that is a fact.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 07:39:42 PM
Take politics out of it. Comcast gets more CONTENT. They are not getting more infrastructure. I pointed that out and it was dismissed. It is still a fact. Also, take politics out of it, (which means we can't debate the merits of having to pay more for products)
then the objections or discussion should focus on, as I tried to keep it, the IP, as that is the only aspect not politically charged.
I, regret saying entitled and being passive aggressive. But, whether you see it or not, *I* see it as being attacked for having an opposing political view.
Why do I see it that way? Because. As I pointed out. Every single Comcast subscriber does, in fact, have alternatives. So how is pointing that out false? In fact, until I came to this forum and long before this whole ordeal, I didn't even hear the name Comcast ever. I never had them and from the sounds of it I never will. But it doesn't matter, as I stated the stakes are literally just people having to pay more money. How, is that bad?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on June 02, 2018, 07:56:59 PM
SO what? I have a web server, if I want faster, higher bandwidth I have to pay for it, why can't Netflix pay for it too? I mean they are the ones clogging the lines why shouldn't they have to pay for it?
Here's the problem with that argument: You would pay your ISP for more bandwidth, so more people can access your site. You would also buy better servers in order to handle the traffic. Now, what if on top of that, an ISP whom you wouldn't otherwise deal with decides to A) charge consumers just to access your page or B) charge YOU for consumers accessing your page. That's the problem.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 02, 2018, 07:58:20 PM
I think one big issue is service providers owning any networks. It's bad enough that Comcast owns NBC, do you really want Comcast owning Fox too? All Comcast has to do at that point is charge extra for other providers to carry NBC and Fox - meaning they raise their prices or they stop carrying Comcast-owned networks, meaning more people switch to Comcast. It's already happened with Viacom channels - PlayStation Vue dropped them and YouTube TV still doesn't carry them - but guess who does - DirecTV Now.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on June 02, 2018, 08:04:39 PM
Take politics out of it. Comcast gets more CONTENT. They are not getting more infrastructure. I pointed that out and it was dismissed. It is still a fact.
The problem is owning content and infrastructure. Comcast already has both. This is bad. Them getting more content is bad. And no, they aren't getting more infrastructure.
Just that, explain to me how Dish doesn't compete with Comcast? Explain to me how a person who is unhappy with Comcast, if this is true why aren't more people leaving them? They must be doing something right.
Paid cable subscriptions are on the decline. Source (http://fortune.com/2018/03/01/cord-cutting-record-internet-tv/)
Quote
But it doesn't matter, as I stated the stakes are literally just people having to pay more money. How, is that bad?
That's the primary reason why monopolies are generally bad. Being able to dictate prices (i.e., making people pay more) is an inherently bad thing.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: oohhboy on June 02, 2018, 08:09:59 PM
Do you or do you not want faster, better, fair internet at cheaper prices in packages of your choosing? If not why not? Are you just going to sacrifice yourself on the alter of dogma just for the sake of it?
The other governments work towards and have a higher standards because they want to make their country better even if it is just to keep them in power via bread and circuses. Some recognize the fact that the internet has become a need, part of the fabric of civilisation. People support this because it makes their lives measurably better. It's civilisation.
I pointed it out because the American system is broken and need points of comparison as to why. You argue to make it even more broken for vapid reasons like superheroes and dogma.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 02, 2018, 08:18:21 PM
I'm so glad others picked up the argument and stepped through so many wide open holes in the rebuttal. I wouldn't even know where to begin, and don't have to time to do a point by point, but luckily it is no longer needed.
So I'll just ramble about something here, and come back later to ramble something else. But this is exactly why I didn't even want to start this debate.... :/
Quote
Wrong, you are just biased and I am trying to be reasonable. So what if they charge more? Your entire argument is based on entitlement. You act like you are owed content to you, I disagree. Content costs money to produce they have a right to charge for it. They have a right to charge a premium for it. HBO costs extra. I am sure you have no problem paying extra for HBO because you want access to the titties. You want titties you have for it. If you want Simpsons you have to pay extra for it, I see nothing wrong with that. I see the market doing what it is supposed to.
Uh huh.... I don't think you quite understand how it works, or how it even effects your precious Dishnetwork, or whoever you use for TV/Cable Internet.
Comcast(and other Major Internet providers) wanted to break up the internet into tiered packages to work like the tiered packages for cable. If Comcast, being a MAJOR internet provider to the U.S. is in control of the very content many are already used to seeing, now has control over not just the content, but your ability to access it.... things start to go bad as they have already shown examples of.
They have the content channels, your cable provider would like to provide said channels for cable parity on their service, but now that Comcast also owns all these other premium content channels, they up the price on them all for your favorite cable provider, who now passes that cost on to you. Meanwhile, Comcast is able to offer these same content channels (plus all of your other standard channels that your favorite provider supplies.... for parity sake) at a cheaper price (since they don't have to pay themselves a premium for their own content), which somewhere down the line drives the consumers to switch to Comcast.... now your favorite provider can either lower the price and eat the additional cost to their bottom line, or they can charge more to cover it.... pushing even more customers away, who eventually go to the cable provider that gives them all the channels at the cheaper cost, therefore driving away the competition. (anti-competitive practices)
Your rebuttal may be that the other providers will just raise the cost they sell to Comcast for their cable... ok, but then Comcast has the upperhand with major channels that everyone else also wants access to, so they just raise the price again.... vicious cycle begins. Consumers lose in the end
It's a slippery slope to start down. The argument for Net Neutrality is that the internet is supposed to work like the freeway. There's an inherent cost to use it, but once you're on it, you can go where you want when you want. Companies starting to abuse it want to install "fast lanes" so that if you want to continue to drive at the speed you're used to, pay extra, other wise we will make you drive in this lane with speed bumps every 200ft. Oh and if you want to use this convenient exit to get where you are going, instead of being forces to get off at the next one and navigate city streets just to get back here... you need to upgrade to the Premium Exit package. And if that place you were trying to go wants them to keep that premium Exit package available, then they need to pay up as well, otherwise everyone can get off at the next exit, and regardless of where you are going... it's always the next exit from the one you wanted.
For Comcast to gain more desired content and assets would just give them more leverage to continue to try to hold everything and anyone interested in cable, TV, Movies, Internet hostage through their BS tactics to nickel and dime us while offering nothing to justify the increases in return.
p.s. DishNetwork w/ *up to* 20Mbps down is NOT a competition to Comcast 1GB down http://about.dish.com/news-releases?item=122741 (http://about.dish.com/news-releases?item=122741)
Dish Network is probably the largest struggling provider trying to stay relevant. It's why DirectTV merged with AT&T, and why the local providers are usually propped up by the local government... to provide an alternative to the big provider so that there isn't technically a "monopoly" on service. (They actually got paid by the Gov decades ago to expand broadband service and in return, made it so that other major service providers couldn't encroach on their areas. This is why we don't have 1GB service everywhere, as there isn't enough competition to force them to spend the money *that they were already paid* to upgrade and maintain such service) There also a reason why Big Old School providers have been fighting internet being classified at a Title II service. The Internet much like running water, electricity and a telephone in your house, the internet is now a necessary service for standard of life in our 1st world privileged society.
Comcast going after all of this, while in their right to do so, just screams a future of them continuing to practice or push some anti-competitive behavior when it comes to control of the access to cable and internet that allows you to access the content you chose to entertain yourself with...
and I've been typing this long enough for 9 more replies since I've started. LOL
edit:
Quote
You do know you could get internet from other providers and cut the cord too right? There is YouTube, there is IPTV, Playstation has an option, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, those are alternatives to Comcast. (Except for their stake in Hulu)
You still need to pay an internet provider (like Comcast), before you have the privilege to pay for and have access to all those "cord cutting" options.
and based on your repeated political slant for argument... I guess we know who originally hit that button even when the conversation was not political in nature. Please drop the political slant and stick to the topic at hand. If you can't discuss why you think Comcast is a better suitor for 21CF and associated IP/assets without repeatedly bringing up "politics" then just stop discussing it.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 02, 2018, 08:26:36 PM
I AGREED Comcast getting it was bad, I explained why I think its bot worse than Disney.
UES, i want, WANT, fastet internet, but I pay for what I can afford and live without it, THAT is the line, that is ehat makes it pokitical, I can accept having a slower speed because that is what the narket offers or pay more for the luxory Dish is not the only exanple. ATT, Netflix, Amazon, Playstation, YouTube, those are all legit, viable alternatives that exist right now.
Again one last time for those who forgot history, the GOVERNMENT did break content from delicery in the past, so repeatedly usibg scare tactic they wont so ot again is not working What is the issue? You dobt like Comcast you find a different ISP, you falsely claim if you are in their marlet they are IT, there id absolutelty not a single other isp in the same market, I can prove to you that is falsebut you reject that bot based on facts, based in your entitlement, you believe anything less than fiber optic doesnt even count and fisniss it, you have alternativea, you justbreject them.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 02, 2018, 08:47:48 PM
This is how you all want to be spending your Saturday?
Time for a time out for this thread. Everybody can walk away for awhile and focus on something else.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 20, 2018, 04:56:05 PM
I hear there may be new developments so let's try this thread again.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: broodwars on June 20, 2018, 05:52:56 PM
And the monopoly got larger. *sigh*
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: Adrock on June 20, 2018, 06:28:00 PM
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: Stratos on June 20, 2018, 07:27:50 PM
I suspected this might happen. I also think Comcast's hand is played because of the big deal made in their attempts to raise the capital necessary for their initial bid. With Disney so quickly and firmly upping the ante and Fox's obvious lack on interest in Comcast it appears to be pretty much in the bag for Disney.
Hopefully they can start integrating some of Marvel's lost children into the MCU after 2019. I'm sure they have the plans to do it in place.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 20, 2018, 08:13:25 PM
I just read Fox has accepted the Disney deal so it sounds like the X-Men join the MCU and everyone gets what they wanted.
For me personally the biggest positive of this is it will strengthen the chances of the Disney streaming platform knocking Netflix down a peg and could end up killing Hulu off together.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 20, 2018, 09:50:51 PM
Disney hasn't closed anything yet. Comcast can still respond if they dare to risk lowering their credit rating further. From what I've been reading, they may just up their bid on SKY instead, and cut their losses in Fox. They forced Disney to stretch a bit thin to reach this far, so not a total loss for Comcast.
I have a link or two to post from this morning in a bit too. Was just waiting for the thread unlock to happen.
Oh, and Hulu ain't going anywhere. Disney (or Comcast) would just own 60%. Disney already stated intentions to use Hulu for all the non-family friendly content from Fox and probably Marvel, all the rest on the Disney Streaming Vault.
edit: Here's some links to bring everyone up to speed.
Proposed Acquisition Items from FOX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_acquisition_of_21st_Century_Fox#Assets_to_be_acquired_by_Disney_or_Comcast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_acquisition_of_21st_Century_Fox#Assets_to_be_acquired_by_Disney_or_Comcast)
FOX Accepts Disney's $71M Bid https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-20/fox-agrees-to-sweetened-bid-from-disney-dealing-blow-to-comcast (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-20/fox-agrees-to-sweetened-bid-from-disney-dealing-blow-to-comcast)
also gives some insight into how they view Comcast's response should they even offer up more.
(https://i.imgur.com/E6KMPWc.png)
another article: https://www.thewaltdisneycompany.com/the-walt-disney-company-signs-amended-acquisition-agreement-to-acquire-twenty-first-century-fox-inc-for-71-3-billion-in-cash-and-stock/ (https://www.thewaltdisneycompany.com/the-walt-disney-company-signs-amended-acquisition-agreement-to-acquire-twenty-first-century-fox-inc-for-71-3-billion-in-cash-and-stock/)
and the Disney Investor Call https://edge.media-server.com/m6/p/oh8qi22i (https://edge.media-server.com/m6/p/oh8qi22i)
edit2: foreign opinion on the matter - gives reason why Comcast may not be able to counter effectively https://www.afp.com/en/news/206/disney-boosts-fox-bid-713-bn-counter-comcast-doc-16a1fa7 (https://www.afp.com/en/news/206/disney-boosts-fox-bid-713-bn-counter-comcast-doc-16a1fa7)
and Disney is further along in the approval process than we all thought.... https://seekingalpha.com/news/3365287-bloomberg-disney-nears-antitrust-ok-fox-bid-blow-comcast
They could be clear to close before the summer is over.... Not sure if Comcast can top that... Guaranteed Disney Stock & Cash NOW or start the regulatory process all over again with Comcast (and pay Disney for backing out the deal.)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: Plugabugz on June 21, 2018, 06:18:14 AM
For the same reason why you guys dont want Comcast to have Fox is the same reason I don't want Comcast to have Sky. They are already the third (second?) largest ISP in the UK and biggest in TV services across Europe. It's instantly buying a monopoly here.
There was already concerns by the UK/EU Competition Commission about Fox buying Sky the first time around so i believe that Comcast wouldnt be any different to that.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 21, 2018, 11:29:23 AM
All the more reason why I don't why anyone that is not a Comcast shareholder is even rooting for Comcast on any level of this deal
and before anyone jumps in with "i'd rather it not be anyone, or that they split the assets or..." anything other than what is happening - Fox is selling. Disney or Comcast are buying, and those are our 2 choices. Disney is not interested in sharing. period.
Disney is by far the superior suitor for this acquisition. They took the time to "surgically" carve out the assets they would take, vs what they were willing to leave on the table just to ensure this deal got through regulatory committees as smoothly and quickly as possible.
Comcast has shown their true colors (same at AT&T) about how quickly they are ready to flex their monopolistic fist on the market they already nearly control in so many areas around the country (cable tv/ISP). For them to get more territory and content to tighten that fist around would not be in the interest of any general consumer in any market. Between price hikes, pay-walls, exclusive content, and package shifts.... its scary to think how much we would all regret Comcast getting more powerful after the fact, even as a Comcast customer.
Something I read yesterday stated that Disney may be actually leaving the RSN's on the table to speed the closure of this deal up by at least 6 months (not sure if true though). Quicker than expected approval to push this deal over the top for the investors by putting the choice of 50/50-cash/stock option with approval this year, vs Comcast "All Cash" offer that still needs to start the regulatory process with no guarantees, but minimum of 14-18 month regulatory process.
Comcast still has still I think next wed morning to respond. But even if they choose to up their bid to include some stock, Dis stock (with guaranteed value clause) is still worth more, and has no tax implications, vs Cash which is heavily taxed.... so my understanding (which is extremely limited on these matters) is that Comcast would have to put up a pretty significant amount of more cash to make up for the tax implications and still be a better deal than what Disney is offering now.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: ThePerm on June 21, 2018, 07:04:55 PM
I think one of the factors is when a company buys another company their stock takes a bit of a dip(is that right?). Disney's is valued at $70 dollars more than Comcast so if it takes a dip it wont become worthless. I'd rather have Disney stock than comcast stock. The Universal Dark Universe didn't go anywhere. They do have Jurassic Park though. Ant-Man and the Wasp is coming out. About to make a bunch of money. Jeez I got too many movies to watch.
That being said if I could personally run Universal I would. I'd do so much with The Thing. I'd make a weird movie without people.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 21, 2018, 07:09:32 PM
Just some food for thought - of you earned $1 per *second*, it would take you 2,260 years to make as much money as Disney is offering. Jeff Bezos is worth roughly twice that. If you made $100 per second ($8,640,000 per day), it would take you 22 years to make enough to match that deal, or 44 years to be worth what Jeff Bezos is worth. That is pure insanity to me.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: ThePerm on June 22, 2018, 12:49:08 AM
I think I remember reading in the 90s Bill Gates was making $50 a second. But that can't be right because that is only 1.5 billion a year. It was probably about $200 a second. He was worth about $60 billion then and he had been making money like that for about 15 years.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 22, 2018, 07:23:11 AM
If Jeff Bezos drops $100 on the ground, it's literally not worth his time to pick it up.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 24, 2018, 11:52:52 PM
If Fox shareholders are getting Disney stock for "selling" doesn't that just mean they are getting more control of Disney?
Disney can show boat all they want on Hulu there is no way they can support two streaming platforms. I know they only have 60 percent of the share but they are removing a lot of the incentive for keeping it around. There is no guarantee Comcast is going to want to continue doing business with Disney after this deal either.
I would be willing to place a very high wager on Hulu becoming defunct in less than 5 years after this deal. They're basically worthless now. If they lose the family friendly stuff it doesn't matter how much crap they have left, Netflix, Amazon and whatever Warner ends up doing plus HBO are all going to be better options.
I don't see Disney keeping Hulu going. They are saying that now to appease share holders and the government but you know they will back out or jack up the price of their content, either way it's going down hill anyways. (Again let's not either of us pretend our crystal ball is anymore clear than the others okay we're all speculating) The numbers, the assets, the IP, it's all a lot for anyone to absorb.
If Disney doesn't put their newly acquired Fox assets on their streaming service and they try to keep it Pixar and Disney channel stuff they're setting it up to fail, and they are not that stupid. I don't see Hulu surviving even if Disney doesn't get to make the decision they will affect it with the shuffling of their content. I don't know, my foot hurts, its hot I been out of work two damn months I guess I don't care anymore who gets what. Comcast or Disney customers lose in the end.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 25, 2018, 12:22:55 AM
except Disney already layed out their (high level) plans for Hulu.... and the Disney Vault. They co-exist and one is a companion to the other.
Of course that doesn't change what Comcast and the other 2-3 content providers decide to do, but honestly, this deal doesn't change their compensation from Hulu subscription, it just doubles Disney's. Unless they all want to sell their shares to Disney, I don't see much changing.
We also don't know the exact details of how the Disney Vault will work, but Hulu would probably still be relevant as the portal to watch next day TV shows from ABC/FX and whatever other channels they currently have on there. The Vault will just be needed to probably watch beyond the last 4-5 episodes and all the previous seasons (plus all the exclusive content), but the Vault was mentioned to be a companion to a Hulu subscription if I remember correctly (not that you couldn't get it separately).
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on June 25, 2018, 07:08:28 PM
I could see Disney trying to incentivize Comcast into sticking with the Hulu deal by potentially offering up some of the ownership at a bargain. Disney might not want to give up control of Hulu, so it may be only 9%, protecting Disney's majority, but it will give Comcast a potentially larger share of the profit from the service just for sticking around.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 26, 2018, 02:40:37 PM
It's over, it's over now, move over, it's Disney's turn, it's over... The bids shut down?
Fox deems Comcast potential new bid as much riskier for anti trust approval that Disney's current bid... https://seekingalpha.com/news/3366303-fox-filing-antitrust-issues-scuttle-comcast-bid?dr=1#/email_link
And why Comcast might not be able to offer up more cash anyway.... Well, at least not reasonably, and still be business sound. https://seekingalpha.com/article/4184025-4-ds-disneys-deal-fox
The SEC Filing, for someone that may want to summarize all this for us, we'd be appreciative :) https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1744489/000119312518201596/d770960ds4.htm
Reference for opening statement. https://youtu.be/b7--cBpWnJs
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 27, 2018, 12:35:25 PM
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on June 27, 2018, 01:30:23 PM
So, Comcast is scrambling for ways to find more cash (https://www.wsj.com/articles/comcast-hunts-for-additional-cash-in-pursuit-of-21st-century-fox-assets-1530103147). This includes teaming up with private equity firms.
However, the Disney deal is already anti-trust approved (https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-expected-to-ok-disneys-proposed-purchase-of-fox-assets-1530114027?mod=hp_lead_pos2)! As BnM posted, they were set to win it today, but now it's officially official.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 27, 2018, 11:39:34 PM
Comcast need to just give it up.
Long Story Short, Disney is approved as long as it sells off 22 RSN's. Comcast is gonna have to come up with A LOT of CASH as a HUGE overpyament over the already overpaid overpayment beign done by Disney, just for Fox shareholders to consider starting from scratch only to MAYBE get an approval sometime next year, vs already having a nice amount of overvalued Cash and Stock from Disney now.
Comcast just needs to let it go. It's over.
I like how I saw someone put it earlier "Before it was like Comcast was trying to take items out of Disney's shopping cart while it was running down the aisle. After the approval, now it's like they are trying to swipe the items off the scanner before Disney can finish paying for it." [/paraphrased]
edit: found the actual quote
Quote
Prior to it passing regulatory approval, what Comcast was doing was essentially trying to take Fox out of Disney’s cart in the checkout line.
Post approval it is much closer to essentially trying to take Fox out of Disney’s bags as they are at the register handing their money over.
I had the basic idea down though.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 28, 2018, 12:48:39 AM
This one time I will concede to BnM. I mean my whole issue with Disney getting it was the sports and our government stepped up and did exactly what I said they would, took care of business. So a compromise?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 28, 2018, 12:00:05 PM
Fox might be shutting the door on this one.... https://www.secinfo.com/d14D5a.j64rj.htm#1stPage (https://www.secinfo.com/d14D5a.j64rj.htm#1stPage) They filed a merger form with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
In related news: Comcast is bringing in help for the Sky bid, so that might signal they are about to refocus their efforts elsewhere. https://www.publicaffairsnews.com/articles/news/comcast-calls-hanbury-help-%C2%A322bn-sky-takeover-bid Unfortunately, raising the bid on Fox i guess somehow raises the value of a bid for Sky, so while Comcast plans a new bid for that instead, Sky is re-evaluating it's price. and Disney can still up their bid for the remaining 61% of Sky as well. http://www.thetakeoverpanel.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2018-7.pdf
This basically means that if Comcast true goal was to get Sky (and the Fox international assets), raising the price of Fox for Disney to $71B, has caused Sky to re-evaluate it's own value in this deal the reason for bidding was to take over Sky as part of Fox's original bid for the company. So if Comcast raises it's bid for Fox yet again, and Disney counters yet again, it's only going to continue to raise the price of Sky even further. So if Comcast truly wants Sky in the end, it's best to stop bidding for Fox and use it's "cash" to but Sky direct before Sky ends up costing the same as Fox did originally.
Analyst are also predicting that New Fox may be the purchaser of the 22 Fox RSN's that Disney will be required to sell. That was one of my thoughts as soon as the compromise was made, as New Fox is keeping Fox Sports and FS1. They may as well hold on to the RSN's for a while (Disney/ESPN will be back for them later ;) )
and in a separate nonsensical thought..... $22b Bid for Sky.... 22 RSN's Disney needs to sell. RSN's are valued at 1/3 of Fox bid value ($71B/3=$23.6B)... maybe Sky takes the 22RSN's a $1B each in a straight trade allowing the Disney Fox merger to close, Sky then accepts the Fox bid for Sky, and BAM everyone is happy, except Comcast, who somehow just got shafted in a deal that makes no sense? Disney gets to buy Fox and Sky and somehow keep the RSN's. LOL
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 13, 2018, 01:49:24 AM
Small updates:
Fox, not Disney, raised it's bid for Sky in the UK. Comcast was quick to counter.
and today the DOJ filed it's appeal on the AT&T/Time Warner Merger. Another HUGE blow to Comcast hopes to successfully interfere w/ the Fox/Disney buyout
Comcast is likely to focus all it's attention on Sky now, or find a partner to bid on Domestic/Foreign Fox assets to split.
Although Comcast could still try to ruin Disney's day by dropping one last pointless bid on Fox just to hopefully get Disney to respond with yet another offer, but that could backfire if the UK Takeover Committee decides that raises the value of Sky and therefore forces Disney/Fox and Comcast to raise their bids accordingly.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: oohhboy on July 15, 2018, 05:11:16 AM
I'm so glad others picked up the argument and stepped through so many wide open holes in the rebuttal. I wouldn't even know where to begin, and don't have to time to do a point by point, but luckily it is no longer needed.
This is cool. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-44796436
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 15, 2018, 05:32:27 PM
I'm glad someone is making the right moves.
With the newly nominated SCJ, his views on the matter are that the ISP's should have the right to filter the content coming over their cables.
Oh, and to touch on another point from my previous post. The DOJ filed it's appeal in part by the fact that now that AT&T got approval for the merger, their first move was to immediately RAISE THEIR PRICES. AT&T will still get the Time Warner deal, but chances are they may have to offload more than the had originally expected. Compromises and concessions are expected to be made.
I wouldn't be surprised if some timed stipulations are put in place like were for the Comcast/NBCU buyout some years back.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 15, 2018, 09:13:32 PM
AT&T has basically already rolled out their vision for ruining HBO.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 19, 2018, 09:03:50 AM
Comcast formally BOWS OUT of bidding for 21 Century Fox!!! https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/comcast-fox-sky-disney-bidding-war-drops-out-1202878103/
and thank gawd, because I didn't want my original title to this thread to be wrong. LOL
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: X-Men & Fantastic 4 coming home for Summer 2019!!
Post by: nickmitch on July 19, 2018, 10:57:08 AM
'Bout time!
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 19, 2018, 12:39:08 PM
Final Shareholder vote is next Friday.
then the focus is to see what Disney does towards Sky. Disney will own 39% with the acquisition to 21Fox assets, and Comcast is supposedly going hard for Sky's other 61%.
on the other hand, if Comcast get's that 61% of Sky, Disney will own 60% of Hulu. could we see some cooperation between the two? have they already worked something out, and that's why Comcast let go of Fox?
Comcast still holds the rights to the following thing that Disney needs to make some of their parts whole: - Hulk distribution rights - Namor "The Submariner" rights in some form or fashion - Marvel Character Amusement Park rights East of the Mississippi - Themepark rights to The Simpsons
Disney has some things Comcast may needs as well: - Distribution to some Dreamworks titles that came out during their distribution deal.
What I'm getting at, is if Disney and Comcast decide not to co-exist on the Hulu and Sky boards, and instead asset swap to get off each other's plate, could Disney give up 39% of Sky to Comcast in trade for Comcast 30% of Hulu, plus all their rights tied to Disney studios?
Remember that Disney would be giving all of Sky to Comcast, while Comcast would only be leaving Disney with 90% of Hulu, therefore other considerations would be needed to even the deal out.
edit: Oh, and (https://i.imgur.com/15StPfM.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lCssOWI.png)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: Adrock on July 19, 2018, 01:39:33 PM
According to CNN, Bob Iger described Sky as the “crown jewel” of Fox’s assets. Disney wants a direct-to-consumer platform in Europe. I’d link the article, but I read it on my work computer, and I’m posting on my phone. I can’t handle all of these electronics.
I’m not as invested in the acquisition as I’ve only been checking in for the status of X-Men/Fantastic Four. This seemed relevant though. It doesn’t appear as if Disney has any interest in helping Comcast get a hold of Sky. You’ve been following this more than I have so I look forward to you sleuthing for information while I reap the benefits later.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 19, 2018, 06:16:21 PM
What I forgot to mention in my last post, was that it was speculated that Disney and Comcast had met secretly at the conference a week or so ago, and likely came to a deal about Fox and Sky. It was part of the reason why everyone was speculating Comcast to not bid again, because Disney was bowing out on the Sky takeover. Disney supposedly told Fox not to bid on Sky again. We'll see how true that is after next week though.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 20, 2018, 09:16:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yQ41WNV.jpg)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: nickmitch on July 24, 2018, 08:42:16 PM
The glorious pinnacle of capitalism.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: broodwars on July 24, 2018, 11:42:19 PM
And to think people mocked my calling Disney an entertainment monopoly. ::)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 25, 2018, 12:04:00 AM
Monopoly...?
no, But the Walmart Super Store of Entertainment? that I can agree with.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: nickmitch on July 25, 2018, 08:04:38 PM
Yeah, monopoly is still a pretty strong word, even for Disney.
But they are a mega conglomerate.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 25, 2018, 09:46:54 PM
Not just a strong word, but by definition, it doesn't even fit.
Disney is the Amazon of entertainment. Everything covered from A to Z If they don't have something that appeals to you or your family, then you are either dead inside, or extremely particular. But by no means are they the only place you can go to be entertained or to find a particular type of entertainment.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 25, 2018, 10:59:54 PM
Unless that particular type of entertainment is "good comic book movies."
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 26, 2018, 01:52:21 AM
Touche my friend, touche
(https://i.imgur.com/iiDBySL.jpg)
LOL
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Comcast Formally Concedes Fox Assets to Disney
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 27, 2018, 12:02:34 PM
It's official. Fox shareholders agreed to the $71B Disney buyout.
X-Men and Fanastic 4 are coming home. And they bringing Aliens, Predators, and all sorts of other sour with them too!!!
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on July 27, 2018, 12:34:07 PM
Well, so much for any hopes of seeing this live action cross-over:
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on July 27, 2018, 01:12:21 PM
The existence of Who Framed Roger Rabbit doesn't eliminate the possibility of cross overs that aren't just name dropping.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 27, 2018, 03:10:06 PM
Goodbye (thank god) Dark Phoenix and New Mutants.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 27, 2018, 04:41:22 PM
I really hope Hugh Jackman dons the claws one last time for a soiree into the MCU. He could somehow pass the baton over to the replacement. Is it too late to put him in Avengers 4? Probably but damn that would be an epic appearance if he rolls up for the Avengers Assemble moment.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 27, 2018, 06:35:20 PM
I saw a good suggestion earlier, and I'm going to expand on it a bit.
Deadpool "One Shot" where he kills the Fox Marvel universe, much like the X:O scene from Deadpool 2. Since he is self-aware of the merger happening, and recognized a need to reboot, he goes through all the terrible Fox Marvel movies (Old F4, New F4, Old X-Men, New X-Men) and kills off each and every one of them, so that he (and those from the Deadpool franchise) are the last ones standing, therefore increasing his chance of surviving, since there is no longer a need to do a clean sweep. Can even throw in a quip about killing off the cast of Phoenix and New Mutants before they could finish the films "check Netflix, they may reincarnate there". and then even kill off those in the writing room who were working on scripts for that Dr. Doom movie, and any other potential FoX-Men films (Kinberg, Singer, etc etc), and then he can burst onto the set of Channing Tatum's next movie and kill him too, just for good measure, and to ensure that Gambit movie can now never be made.
I think it would make for a great and hilarious short to be aired right after Avengers 4. it could then end with the title card of Deadpool will return..... in the MCU!?
this is assuming of course that they get everything cleared before end of the year, so they have time to actually make this.
edit: (https://i.imgur.com/pCL6nfC.png)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on July 28, 2018, 05:25:54 AM
Lol Killmonger fading away...
I had wish he had some sort of exchange between himself and Captain America "that guy's a hothead"
There is still room for flashbacks.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Adrock on July 28, 2018, 12:59:44 PM
Regarding Deadpool, I read a suggestion the other day. So once Stan Lee passes, Deadpool becomes the new cameo in MCU movies, possibly wearing Lee’s aviator sunglasses over his regular mask. Most of the time, Deadpool doesn’t help out and isn’t part of the main plot, but he just shows up in the background either having his own adventure or just being Deadpool.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 28, 2018, 01:21:18 PM
I can't imagine them ever doing that, especially since Deadpool isn't one of Stan Lee's creations.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Adrock on July 28, 2018, 01:59:52 PM
Stan Lee showed up in Guardians of the Galaxy, and I don’t believe he created that team so I don’t know if that’s the dealbreaker. Regardless, it was just an idea someone tossed out there, not one to be taken seriously. I doubt Marvel would consider it, not because of Stan Lee, but because Deadpool appearing in a cameo or background of movies he has no relevant plot involvement in may be too distracting.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 28, 2018, 03:46:59 PM
Well that too. I mean Stan Lee has been in every Marvel movie series, and he didn't create a lot of them - but if you had someone carry his torch, I would think it would be one of his creations...but I don't see that happening anyway. It's cool though because he will live forever.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 28, 2018, 04:45:52 PM
Digital Likeness, much like Marvel's "De-Aging" tech, and Star Wars Princess Leia, they will just digitally recreate him and insert him in the movies.
Or maybe they move to do it more like the TV show cameo's where it's usually a picture, painting, or something like that to make a cameo.
Although I could see a Deadpool cameo where he comes across that digital likeness, and says something like "Hiuh, some people really do live forever..."
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on July 29, 2018, 02:53:44 AM
I heard they filmed Stan Lee doing a bunch of random **** already. All Stan lee has to do is film scenes on a green screen pointing at the sky, driving, and sitting etc and then they can CG whatever costume onto him.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 09, 2018, 04:50:08 AM
Iger details his plans for Disney, Fox, Hulu, The Vault, and ESPN+ https://www.wsj.com/articles/disneys-profit-rises-23-but-its-costs-climb-too-1533677299 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/disneys-profit-rises-23-but-its-costs-climb-too-1533677299)
Quote from: stolen summary, as WSJ is behind a paywall
Disney went more into detail on their plans. They will have three streaming services: ESPN+, Disneyflix (unofficial title) and Hulu. Each streaming service will be aimed at a different demographic. ESPN+ for sports fans, Disneyflix for families and Hulu for adults. The three streaming services “may be bundled for people who want all three.”
Disneyflix will be priced substantially lower than Netflix and they are going into Disneyflix “walking rather than running”, suggesting that it will start at a low price and gradually become greater as it gets more volume. Will launch at the tail end of 2019.
Fox Searchlight will “work on exclusive original TV series and movies for streaming services.”
Fox’s film studio will “work on blockbuster film franchises such as sequels to the popular Avatar and X-Men series. These will be theatrical films for theaters and not made for streaming services.”
Fox’s TV studio will work on adult-oriented TV shows for FX and Hulu.
No specific mention of Marvel, but X-Men mentioned as staying under the Fox Production umbrella. interesting.
Cheap Disney Streaming service as previously stated is also good.
FOX Searchlight becoming a Streaming only studio? Trying to out premium Netflix for streaming exclusive movies? I would be surprised if some of them didn't still get theater releases though.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on August 09, 2018, 01:17:44 PM
Disney needs to keep their vault streaming services cheaper. While their content is certainly high-value, it's low volume compared to Netflix, especially if the Fox stuff is gonna stick to Hulu.
This thing about Fox Searchlight is a little upsetting because I really like how they give real theatrical runs to indie films.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 27, 2018, 12:03:23 AM
Apparently Disney and Verizon are fighting right now.... but the good news out of this article, is that The Fox Buyout could be completed end of January. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/disney-verizon-headed-blackout-battle-n952026
Quote
Disney is also planning an entertainment service to launch in 2019 called Disney+, with movies and shows that were once licensed to Netflix. Disney is also poised to own 60 percent of Hulu once its acquisition of Fox is approve. Executives are expecting to close that deal in the final week of January, according to one person familiar with the deal who was not authorized to speak publicly.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on December 27, 2018, 02:23:29 AM
Verizon was a hell to work at. Every week they would come up with a new scheme to rip off customers like some bad honeymooners type characters. My call center was like something out of THX-1138. Giant posters of smiling models everywhere and the brightest of bright florescent lights. The inside was like a casino. You couldn't see outside so it would throw off my circadian clock. We would watch training videos that were more like propaganda. Once I was reprimanded for using the bathroom. I had 10 hour shifts so it wasn't always feasible to **** outside of work, or on a break. I was supposed to get paid commission, but in a two and a half year period they never paid me a commission. Even when I sold something like $3600 worth of Pacquiao vs Mayweather pay-per-views. One time I tried to quit and they begged for me to stay. I stayed for like 6-8 months after that. It felt like the place was making me sick. I would get respiratory ailments often. It was occupying all my time and eating my soul. I just stopped going in to work one day. I lost some money, but I felt a lot better. **** them.
Cable TV is dead and stupid. They should just focus on internet. They're good at that. They're a bigger anti-trust threat than Disney. Disney wants to circumvent their wire monopoly: GOOD.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 27, 2018, 05:10:42 PM
It appears that Brazil is the lone hold-out on clearing the Disney-Fox buyout https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fox-m-a-walt-disney-brazil/brazil-antitrust-body-raises-concerns-over-disney-fox-deal-idUSKBN1O22LS
hopefully they still clear it before end of next month.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on December 27, 2018, 05:59:39 PM
It appears that Brazil is the lone hold-out on clearing the Disney-Fox buyout https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fox-m-a-walt-disney-brazil/brazil-antitrust-body-raises-concerns-over-disney-fox-deal-idUSKBN1O22LS
hopefully they still clear it before end of next month.
Well at least someone is paying the least bit of concern to antitrust issues with this buyout, even if it is only Brazil. -_-
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on December 27, 2018, 06:03:09 PM
They have to do a lot of paperwork.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on December 28, 2018, 05:12:05 PM
That's nothing a few bribes can't fix.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 27, 2019, 08:26:47 PM
Disney looks to divest Fox Sports in Mexico & Brazil https://deadline.com/2019/02/disney-fox-deal-nears-finish-line-progress-in-brazil-mexico-1202565767/
Looking to complete this Merger Mid-March Just in time to still not have any post credit Endgame scenes for Xmen or F4 ;) :P
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 12, 2019, 12:36:49 PM
Mark it on your Calendars. MARCH 20th is the day X-Men and Fantastic 4 are official home at Marvel again https://deadline.com/2019/03/disney-sets-march-20-closing-date-for-21st-century-fox-acquisition-1202574146/
What does that mean for Phoenix? not quite sure, since it just got a recent marketing push. New Mutants is certainly dead though, as far as a theater release is concerned.
Question now is, how long does it take to get a script ready and insert characters in cameos in upcoming projects.
also who appears first? Doom any member of the Fantastic 4 Super Skrull any X-Men related character Shi'ar Empire Deadpool
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 12, 2019, 12:42:08 PM
In theory... would it have been possible to film something (even a scene with alternate lines? a post-credit scene? anything?) and have waited this long to decide if they have the green light to cut it into the theatrical release? It wouldn't have been a waste, as it would have made for a neat bonus feature on home release anyway.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on March 12, 2019, 01:41:52 PM
It's definitely possible to have filmed something by now. The deal has been more or less set for months. The only thing that's really changing from an operational standpoint on March 20th is what they can announce and put out. I wouldn't be surprised if there's plans for the Fox properties in Phase 4 that could be teased in Endgame or Far From Home.
I think the Fantastic 4 are most likely next up. Galactus is an excellent big bad for the Avengers and gives a cosmic vibe. Also, Doom with the right casting could elevate himself in the same way Loki did.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Stratos on March 12, 2019, 04:19:45 PM
Remember Feige stated years ago they have overarching plot lines for the MCU for close to 20 years (obviously more fluid the farther out you got) and also that he had alternate plots for other characters if Disney was able to broker deals to get them back. Its why Spidey was so quickly integrated into the MCU after the deal with Sony. I wouldn't even be surprised if that was one of the reasons they are fairly mum on post Endgame films aside from the risk of spoilers. I'd be willing to bet money on seeing some sort of tease for either F4 or X-Men at the end of Endgame.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 19, 2019, 09:06:39 AM
Can't see the clip, but welcome home X-Men and Fantastic 4. Marvel is almost whole again.
It is just the clip of Senator Amidala in Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith in response to Emperor Palpatane saying his speech accepting leadership over everything.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 20, 2019, 04:06:09 AM
Can't see the clip, but welcome home X-Men and Fantastic 4. Marvel is almost whole again.
It's Padme's "So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause" line from Star Wars: Episode 3.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: lolmonade on March 20, 2019, 08:56:08 AM
At this point, i'm more concerned about what share of the moviegoing experience Disney will have a wrangle on than what properties they have ownership of. I have friends that live in L.A. and work in the industry, there's real concern over what kind of choke hold they're going to have on theaters regarding how long they'll be forced to keep screens to their movies, and what cut they have to fork over to them. Disney is cutthroat.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Order.RSS on March 20, 2019, 10:02:05 AM
Absolutely bizarre. They could give every person ON EARTH 10 Dollars (there are still areas where this can cover several workdays' wages) and still have nearly a Billion left over for their trouble. Yeah sure X-Men can now play in the Marvel pool, and finally Anastasia is a Disney heroine like everyone already thought.
There's no way this will be worth it. A plunge in competition, thousands of jobs will certainly dissapear over time, Disney functionally ascends to oligopoly status in Western cinema, and I bet Murdoch made bank from this too. 80+ Years of film history will slowly be rewritten, its profitable still relevant organs transplanted into the Disney machine, while the rest will either be buried or serve as endless fodder for streaming and syndication. But hey fanboys may get to ride a rollercoaster themed after Alien while slurping a Juno smoothie, if they ask Disney nicely in several fan campaigns. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 20, 2019, 10:41:29 AM
Absolutely bizarre. They could give every person ON EARTH 10 Dollars (there are still areas where this can cover several workdays' wages) and still have nearly a Billion left over for their trouble. Yeah sure X-Men can now play in the Marvel pool, and finally Anastasia is a Disney heroine like everyone already thought.
There's no way this will be worth it. A plunge in competition, thousands of jobs will certainly dissapear over time, Disney functionally ascends to oligopoly status in Western cinema, and I bet Murdoch made bank from this too. 80+ Years of film history will slowly be rewritten, its profitable still relevant organs transplanted into the Disney machine, while the rest will either be buried or serve as endless fodder for streaming and syndication. But hey fanboys may get to ride a rollercoaster themed after Alien while slurping a Juno smoothie, if they ask Disney nicely in several fan campaigns. :rolleyes:
You know, it's funny...you know that terrible ExtraTERRORestrial Alien Encounter attraction at Disney World's Magic Kingdom (which later became the even worse Stitch's Great Escape)? That ride evolved from an idea Michael Eisner wanted yo do back in the 80s with the ACTUAL Alien franchise. You'd ride around in cars like Buzz Lightyear and shoot at Xenomorphs with Shotguns.
It never happened because the Imagineers revolted, but they could totally do that ride now.
On a side note, if Disney is SO dedicated to gutting the Twilight Zone branding from the remaining Tower of Terror, I could totally see Alien being an appropriate replacement franchise for that theming.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 20, 2019, 10:45:41 AM
Don't forget that Fox was selling and Disney was buying.
It's not like Disney forced a sale. or did a takeover. If it wasn't Disney, it would've been Comcast.
I'm pretty sure we all would've preferred Disney over Comcast.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 20, 2019, 12:13:26 PM
The funny thing is...At no point in history has the human race *ever* had the ability to consume as wide range of entertainment as we do now. Between the dozens of streaming services, self-publishing sites like Youtube, and old standbys like cable, satellite, etc... and it's all literally at our fingertips.
I remember having a black and white, OTA 6 in portable TV when I was younger. It weighed about 900 pounds, used 8 D cell batteries (with next to no extended battery life), couldn't stay tuned to a station for more than a minute when traveling, and had no way to hook up an alternate video source.
Now, I drive around at night playing Pokémon Go while a spare tablet streams Netflix or video game history videos off Youtube and plays it through my car speakers (No, I'm not watching while driving).
In addition to having a plethora of sources for content at our fingertips, we have an insane amount of content creators. You have big budget stuff like Disney, WB, Netflix, etc., all the way down to YouTube **** like PewDiePie (I seriously do not understand the attraction, but obviously, a few million do.).
And one giant company gobbling up another giant company is the end of the world. And we're talking about entertainment at that. Oh no, theaters which have been dying for years are now suddenly going to die! Woe is me, the money I wouldn't have spent pirating FOX movies is now not going to go to Disney when I pirate the movies!
Bah.
And I'm just gonna say it - Star Wars was **** before Disney bought it and Rogue One was an amazing film.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ShyGuy on March 20, 2019, 02:13:42 PM
https://www.thewaltdisneycompany.com/
Look at that diverse array of intellectual property!
...When is Square Enix making Springfield Hearts?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 20, 2019, 03:16:30 PM
The funny thing is...At no point in history has the human race *ever* had the ability to consume as wide range of entertainment as we do now. Between the dozens of streaming services, self-publishing sites like Youtube, and old standbys like cable, satellite, etc... and it's all literally at our fingertips.
I remember having a black and white, OTA 6 in portable TV when I was younger. It weighed about 900 pounds, used 8 D cell batteries (with next to no extended battery life), couldn't stay tuned to a station for more than a minute when traveling, and had no way to hook up an alternate video source.
Now, I drive around at night playing Pokémon Go while a spare tablet streams Netflix or video game history videos off Youtube and plays it through my car speakers (No, I'm not watching while driving).
In addition to having a plethora of sources for content at our fingertips, we have an insane amount of content creators. You have big budget stuff like Disney, WB, Netflix, etc., all the way down to YouTube **** like PewDiePie (I seriously do not understand the attraction, but obviously, a few million do.).
And one giant company gobbling up another giant company is the end of the world. And we're talking about entertainment at that. Oh no, theaters which have been dying for years are now suddenly going to die! Woe is me, the money I wouldn't have spent pirating FOX movies is now not going to go to Disney when I pirate the movies!
Bah.
And I'm just gonna say it - Star Wars was **** before Disney bought it and Rogue One was an amazing film.
Yes, let's not be concerned over the company that's singlehandedly gotten copyright law rewritten getting even more money and power. I mean, how could more money & influence going to one of the biggest lobbying entities in the world possibly come back to haunt us?
As for the "well, someone was going to buy them anyway" argument, I believe Kirk has this one:
Let them die. Let them crumble into dirt and let the vultures pick at their bones. Let the component pieces go at auction, which would be the best way to diversify ownership. Better that than one company, Disney OR Comcast, getting everything. Remember when companies were still allowed to fail?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: lolmonade on March 20, 2019, 03:57:00 PM
I'm not going to get into solutions to this problem (if you perceive it as a problem like me), because in my view it's wholly around what political institutions could do if they had the will to. But what it comes down to is there's no will from these institutions to make changes that'd be perceived as "anti-business", and any online campaigns and pseudo activism around it boils down to impotent rage in the face of this reality.
And I know too many people that couldn't care less about societal implications of these mergers/acquisitions as long as their favorite fictional characters can be together. And if some here feel that way, that's fine, i'm not naive to think i'll change minds here. But the structural challenges of undoing what's happening is too great IMO.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on March 20, 2019, 05:09:30 PM
"Allowed to fail" makes it sound like Fox was forced to sell. Also, the amount of work you have to do sell off bits and pieces of a company (if it's not already in bankruptcy) is gonna be a lot more than just selling the whole thing (aside from the bits Disney didn't actually get).
Also, Disney will probably become bigger jerks to the theatres, but they still need the theatres to live, at least until they try to buy AMC and/or Regal.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 20, 2019, 07:04:01 PM
Quote
Yes, let's not be concerned over the company that's singlehandedly gotten copyright law rewritten getting even more money and power. I mean, how could more money & influence going to one of the biggest lobbying entities in the world possibly come back to haunt us?
That, my friend, is an issue with politics, not with business.
I don't blame the wolves that eat the sheep. I blame the farmer for not keeping his fence in repair.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 20, 2019, 10:27:46 PM
Disney is now expected to lay off/fire thousands of Fox employees now that the acquisition's complete.
"but...BUT...THE X-MEN CAN TEAM UP WITH THE AVENGERS & THE FANTASTIC 4 NOW!"
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 20, 2019, 10:39:38 PM
Fox was selling... if Comcast had bought them, then the EXACT same thing would happen due to redundancies in the workforce.
Disney did not do a hostile take over. if Disney didn't swing for the fences on this, we would have gotten the much worst option of Comcast buying Fox. Then not only wouldn't my X-Men team up with my Avengers and Fantastic 4, but my internet/cable prices would probably skyrocket.
The silver lining to this situation that none of us have control over, is that atleast now my Avengers get to play with Deadpool and the X-Men, and the Fantastic 4 can finally come home again.
Yes is sucks that Disney was the biggest fish that got to swallow an already really big fish, and everyone would've preferred if all the littler fish were allowed to nibble the good parts off this big fish before it decided to sacrifice itself to the largest fish willing to swallow it whole. Yes it sucks that thousands of people are going to lose their jobs because they don't need 4-5 people all doing the exact same things at the same time (they will all be given very generous severance packages). But these are 2 things that were going to happen regardless of if it was Disney or Comcast that bought it.
Some of us are just not gonna get all hung up on the decisions made way above our pay grade and levels of influence. So we choose to be excited about the good that comes out of it, and be thankful that out of the 2 options we were stuck with, at least this time, we got the least bad option. Honestly, if you gonna throw shade, don't throw it at Disney breaking bank. Throw it at Fox for selling the farm.
Disney+ gonna be a must subscribe tho.... (https://i.imgur.com/GfBay7Y.jpg)
Now bring me Doom!!! and who wants to bet that there is a new end credit scene being worked on for Endgame and Spider-Man right now.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 20, 2019, 11:26:47 PM
Quote
Disney is now expected to lay off/fire thousands of Fox employees now that the acquisition's complete
Hey, I know a better plan!
Quote
Let them die. Let them crumble into dirt and let the vultures pick at their bones.
Oh... wait...
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 20, 2019, 11:35:58 PM
Disney is now expected to lay off/fire thousands of Fox employees now that the acquisition's complete
Hey, I know a better plan!
Quote
Let them die. Let them crumble into dirt and let the vultures pick at their bones.
Oh... wait...
One is an unfortunate and unavoidable consequence of failure, such as the closure of Telltale Games last year.
The other is a corporation buying a company so they can strip it of its assets and throw the employees away. This is like Bobby Kotick reporting record profits for Activision followed by laying off 8,000 employees. They're a giant company. They probably could have found SOMETHING for those redundant employees to do. They could have been part of a spin-off studio like Touchtone, making films/etc. that Disney themselves might not have made.
More employees probably would have lasted at Fox if the company had been forcibly left alone due to government intervention in preventing buy-outs from Disney & Comcast, and they probably would have lasted longer.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 20, 2019, 11:49:59 PM
Quote
forcibly left alone due to government intervention
Uhhh... those words don't make sense in that sentance.
Finding unnecessary people something "redundant to do" isn't how a business makes money. How many people do you have mow your yard each day?
There's a reason FOX wanted to sell, and it wasn't because they saw big bucks in their future of keeping business as usual.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ShyGuy on March 21, 2019, 12:21:06 AM
I think Rupert Murdoch being 88 years old played a factor.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 21, 2019, 12:59:46 AM
I edited my post above for cleaning up punctuation mostly, but I just wanted to also point out that everyone getting laid off will more than likely be getting very generous severance packages.
They will be just fine for months on end, also double dipping in unemployment while they hunt down the perfect next career move.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 21, 2019, 01:04:48 AM
Also, probably a great time to move on to Warner Bros, Sony, Lions Gate etc.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: lolmonade on March 21, 2019, 10:18:50 AM
I think Rupert Murdoch being 88 years old played a factor.
Agreed. I think the Murdoch family wanting to divest a portion of their business they no longer have interest in maintaining is a more likely culprit than anything.
I'm not sure where Broodwars got the impression that this was a rewarding of failure. 20th Century Fox seemingly was doing just fine financially, even if you question the quality of work that was coming out of them. Divesting their business to a bidder isn't rewarding failure, it's a sale of properties and assets.
If the heartburn is about the monopolization of entertainment industry by Disney, then the only institutions that could enforce regulations meant to stifle anti-competitive practices is the government, which our current iteration has no interest in doing other than in service of personal grudges.
Disney+ gonna be a must subscribe tho.... (https://i.imgur.com/GfBay7Y.jpg)
As a family with two children, as much as I don't want to subscribe to another service, if it's $10 or less for the disney subscription and contains most of the catalogue, it'll be hard not to. They've got a TON of kids television content my kids would love, too.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 11:51:06 AM
A big problem with all these firings/mergers is that there will be a lot of collateral damage as Disney has no idea where the talent lies, what made it tick. Best case would have been leaving them be as a wholly own subsidiary while transferring the Marvel related material.
Buying Fox is overkill if it was just a IP thing but obviously it was a package deal and a loy of jostling just to prevent others from buying it. Beyond the drop in competition fundamentally I don't like this as Disney is increasingly happy to settle for mediocrity, doing just enough to get something across the line to the masses without any stimulation, fully homogenised. Endless throw away movies.
They aren't going to fund new experimental stuff that would gander cult followings, stand the test of time to become classics. They are going to raid the vault until heat death.
While UncleBob has a point in regards to 'Unlimited' entertainment, it's not really as people including myself are going to get attached to certain IP, people hoping the new corporate environment isn't going to ruin it like so many shows with reboots, remakes, pointless sequels etc destroying our collective cultural heritage.
We will still get some good stuff from Fox for now but a lot of it will be from inertia.
Rogue One was a good 1/3 of a movie, it's a really good 1/3 but damn what a mess leading up to it. I wouldn't be surprised if 2/3 was re-shot as it doesn't feel SW or matches the last 1/3. The difference in quality is startling.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 12:07:23 PM
as people including myself are going to get attached to certain IP
That's a 'you' issue though.
You know, I absolutely loved the Skylanders franchise.
And they ran it into the ground. And now it's a reskinned shitty mobile game that throws the thing I enjoyed most out the window.
So I walked away.
Don't get too attached to entertainment that you cannot walk away from it when it stops entertaining you.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 12:35:51 PM
You are taking it completely the wrong way. It's not walking away or being able to is the issue. I have walked away from two of the biggest IP that exist. I have dropped shows when they became trash. The vast majority have bleed out over time and don't have that level of attachment making it easier to leave. You feel disappointed at worse.
Certain IP were cultural touchstones that formed apart of you. It is not something you abandon lightly. That hurts.
The emotional pain inflicted by the failure is real. The failures has to be immense for that to happen. That is the part you missed.
It isn't a "You" problem.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: lolmonade on March 21, 2019, 12:47:50 PM
Rogue One was a good 1/3 of a movie, it's a really good 1/3 but damn what a mess leading up to it. I wouldn't be surprised if 2/3 was re-shot as it doesn't feel SW or matches the last 1/3. The difference in quality is startling.
Rogue One is the 2nd best star wars movie since the original trilogy, fite me!
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 12:54:05 PM
>Certain IP were cultural touchstones that formed apart of you.
See, here's the thing. The IP isn't what "formed apart of you."
A Wrinkle in Time is my absolute favorite book of all time. It's an amazing book that means so much to me that I have a second edition printing on a shelf in my office.
This book has been made into two movies. The first was a terrible, horrible mistake. And I'm sorry to Ms. Larson, but the second wasn't much better (and I was soooo excited to see it that I bought my tickets in advance and saw it opening night, in spite of all the warning signs in the early reviews).
Even with these two terrible movies, ya know what? The book is still there. These movies didn't suddenly become my only way to enjoy this 'cultural touchstone' that means so much to me. In fact, the whole series of books are still there and I still recommend them to anyone who like reading.
If Disney ruined New Star Wars for you (how anyone could think what Disney did was worse than the Prequels, I will never understand), the OT is still there for you. The Holiday Special is still out there in bootlegs. You can still buy Angry Birds Star Wars merchandise.
If Disney has ruined the Marvel movies, you can still watch the original Spider-Man trilogy. You can still the old Captain America and Punisher movies. There's still an amazing backlog of thousands of comics you can go out and read.
And if Disney ruins Alien, the Simpsons (ehhhh...) or whatever your favorite FOX franchise is - you can still enjoy the original stuff. No one is taking that away from you. Disney buying FOX doesn't mean they get to go into your homes, go through your DVDs, and take away your FOX copy of Batman '66.
"This ain't mah Star Wars." You're right, You've had 40 years to enjoy your Star Wars. Move on.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 01:58:24 PM
I don't disagree except I rank it #1. That last third captured SW as fleeting it was. I am pretty sure you ranked RotS as #1. Most do.
You really, really, really don't get it. It's no that the OT is gone or it's not for you anymore (BS standard excuse for failure). It's that you no longer have anything to look forward to from it, it ended on such a negative way, a monumental failure. It was something that was important to you. Maybe your father showed it to you in a bonding moment and sparking your love for Sci-fi. How is that not a part of you?
The failure isn't just a subjective one. The shows had failed on an objective level. Stories so bad it can't keep it straight scene to scene. Have a character do something you know that is against their fundamental nature. So bad it couldn't put 1+1 together to save it's life. Pointless avoidable errors so bad it insults your intelligence.
There is a massive difference with you example. Making a movie from a book is a transformative work. The transformation changes the context. It's why a TV franchise can push out as many bad novels as it wants and not impact the mainline.
If there is an reasonable understanding made before hand you can have things diverge that generally work out ok. eg, Game of Thrones.
There are many different version of Batman and that is ok because there is an understanding between the creators and the audience. If Nolan had made a 4th movie in the style of Adam West and insisted it was part of the Nolanverse you would tell him to get fucked.
When you are making a direct sequel or something within a universe it comes with responsibility and expectations. When you throw all that history into the wind and give everyone who invested in it the middle finger thinking slapping the name on some slop will sell it the failure is on the creator.
You never ever blame the viewer for the creator's failure. You're telling me and millions of others it's our fault for getting invested in something that was truly great. That is why what you are saying is so ass backwards. That is in part why everyone is pissed off.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 02:14:05 PM
>If Nolan had made a 4th movie in the style of Adam West and insisted it was part of the Nolanverse you would tell him to get fucked.
I would have loved that. Would have been better than the third movie, at least. :D
>You're telling me and millions of others it's our fault for getting invested in something that was truly great.
That is absolutely not what I'm saying. If you were invested in the OT and thought it was great - there is no reason you can't still think it is great!
Basically, you spend your first year shitting your diaper and your parents change them for you - great!
And now, you're 40 and **** your pants and get pissed because your parents will no longer change them for you.
Absolutely NO ONE is obligated to make entertainment for *you*. Likewise, you are not obligated to buy it or partake in it (watch, read, play, whatever). But to get 'pissed' because Lucas made the shitty prequels or Disney has made some... questionable sequels... Like, move on man.
Lemme ask this - would it have been better if Lucas had not sold the right to Disney, instead just shelved the entire license forever?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: lolmonade on March 21, 2019, 03:39:33 PM
Absolutely NO ONE is obligated to make entertainment for *you*. Likewise, you are not obligated to buy it or partake in it (watch, read, play, whatever).
This is really what it boils down to for me, too. I'm not going to be dismissive of other people's feelings of grievance for future entries into beloved series not being what you want. But the thing you love is always going to be there. Like....Sonic 1 & 2 are always going to be there for me to have a fondness for, the bad 3D versions and Sonic the Hedgehog 4 were disappointing (especially after it had been so long since there was a 2D Sonic), but it doesn't erase the quality and memories associated with the thing that drew me to it in the first place.
I just want to pre-beg people here - Please, PLEASE don't start talking about how the fans have as much ownership of a property as the creators. You don't. The creators might value input and feedback, but you have no stake in it outside of your enjoyment of it, and creators are only responsible to cater to your desires insofar as they might still want your interest/business.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 03:40:24 PM
You have the absolutely worse non sequitur nonsense analogues, I don't even know why you make them. Just stop. It's also stupid gross.
Creators definitely have a responsibility it to the audience and what came before. It includes emotional investment because their business is based on it, it's their currency. They definitely have a responsibility to make a good show. That is their job.
Those viewers were YOUR CUSTOMERS, your most ardent supporters who continued to carry SW even after the PT. That investment is part of how you sell a movie, how they found any success. Do you really think SW would still be a thing now it it wasn't for the fans to showing it to their children and friends so they become fans? Keeping in in the cultural lexicon. They most effective marketing machine they could possible ever have and not only do they pay nothing, they got paid for all this free marketing.
The creators most certainly have no right to insult viewers in or outside of the movie. For all his faults GL never made this mistake. He made bad movies and stupid edits but he never alienated the fan base. He took the hits which after which everybody had a laugh and started making memes, brought more stuff.
Culture is more than the exchange of money. Culture means more than that. There are more significant. SW was one of them.
If the only thing you measure a movie is money they made every bad business decision possible.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 03:57:52 PM
You're one of those "The customer is *always* right!!!!!11one" Karens, aren't you?
Would it have been better if Lucas had not sold the right to Disney, instead just shelved the entire license forever?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: lolmonade on March 21, 2019, 04:38:48 PM
Well, this conversation was fun while we hadn't yet gotten to trading barbs....
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 04:59:54 PM
If you do a good job, make good product you get paid. You **** up you have to take responsibility for it and the customer has every right to take them to task over it. The creators have done this to themselves. They offered steak, everyone knows what a stake is, the customer ordered steak only to be served absolute garbage. The customer correctly calls them out on this. The customer every has the right to tell everyone you serve garbage as it is factually true.
Congratulations, you have just killed your business.
Legally no given customer owns the IP nor collectively. However there is an implicit social contract that grants the customers collective partial ownership and a level of control once you reach critical mass. The creator must acknowledge this collective, work with it as it is what give that creator the ability to do what they do. Violate that contract at your peril.
In your opinion, would you have preferred Lucas to have shelved the license over selling to Disney?
Question is moot.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 05:18:12 PM
ITT: Disney and Lucas should have to listen to oohhboy's opinions. Also, oohhboy says his opinions are moot.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 05:20:18 PM
Be disingenuous if you want.
Not matter how you reword the same question there is no reason to answer it.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 05:22:25 PM
There's also no reason to go on for multiple paragraphs about how evil Disney is for ruining our entire civilization's culture... but it makes for interesting conversation
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 05:23:11 PM
Hyperbole won't get you anywhere.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 05:26:42 PM
Neither will this conversation.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 05:27:44 PM
Why are you continuing to be so disingenuous?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 05:31:38 PM
You've spent more time making pointless replies of nothing rather than giving your opinion on a very simple question and wonder why I am being disingenuous.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 05:34:23 PM
Why should I answer that question? Was that the only thing you could come up with to a well reasoned response?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 05:41:04 PM
Because sharing information, thoughts, and opinions is the purpose of any conversation.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
It's not relevant to the topic despite your insistence.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 05:46:34 PM
Wait... me asking you your opinion regarding Disney buying an entertainment company in a topic about Disney buying an entertainment company is not relevant, but multiple posts about how Disney ruined an IP as a result of that purchase is?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 21, 2019, 05:51:26 PM
There's a hidden message in there somewhere that's relevant to the direction this thread has gone...
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 05:51:52 PM
The question is irrelevant.
After your gross replies why should I entertain one of your questions especially one of no relevance.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 05:56:54 PM
You are so offended by my "gross" reply that you see no reason to continue to entertain me...
...but how many replies have you made to me?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 21, 2019, 06:01:06 PM
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 06:53:22 PM
The topic is the mediocrity that is Disney and collateral damage that will be part of the merger. I offered a best case solution to save what made Fox, Fox. Fox is not just the IP, it's the people and the environment/culture they operate under.
I gave examples of cultural restrictions that IP face, how it's strength is turned into a weakness due to the mistaken idea that Brand is all that matters. Yet for some IP within circumstances I offered how a transformation can take place, why it can and why for some can't.
I explained why "Unlimited" entertainment options you offered as a salve wasn't quite so unlimited that makes the continued accretion of IP a problem via the process of emotional investment that can make walking away hard which you flippantly dismissed to the point even another poster had to call you out despite sharing your sentiment.
I followed with how your flippant disregard for emotionally investing is insulting and a bad way to do business that generates a lot of negativity by blaming the customer which you have mirrored by following the company line.
I presented to you the social contract that really underpins ownership an IP which is more a set of obligations the participants have with each other and where the ultimate responsibility lies. It is legally correct that the customer doesn't own the IP but that is not the ownership issue stems from.
That is why your question is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 21, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
At the end of the day, I want Disney to prove me wrong. As much as I gripe about their growing monopoly and the dangerous repercussions thereof, I've loved that company since I was a little kid growing up in the 80s. I've seen it rise, and I've seen it fall. I've seen it take risks, and I've seen it follow Reggie's lead and only green-light safe bets.
My fear with modern Disney is that everything is becoming homogenized and formulaic. They don't take risks anymore. We just got a trailer for the new Toy Story that recycles the exact same goddamn plot they used for the last 3 Toy Story films. Every Marvel film looks like more or less the same movie now. Star Wars has looked like crap since Episode 7, and no...I haven't seen Rogue One. I actually keep waiting for that BluRay to hit the Disney Rewards site like Force Awakens did, and it never has.
Disney Animation seemed to be in a new Renaissance when Frozen hit, but now EVERY film follows Frozen's template with the twist villain and market-tested "subversion". Pixar's the least-relevant it's possibly ever been.
Meanwhile, Disney hasn't green-lit a SINGLE original new attraction at ANY of their parks (one not based on an existing IP) since Expedition Everest in 2006. Everything they build now is "safe"; lazy; and market-tested with certain ideologies in mind, just like the films they put out.
I just wish Disney was taking all these experiences, resources, and money they acquire and putting them into something fresh and new. I miss the 80s & 90s-era Eisner years, when he would figuratively blow things up just to see what would happen, and we got the biggest explosion of creativity in the company in a generation.
However, I see Disney do things like buy-up Fox and all I can think is "well, I guess we can look forward to all the Fox properties being shoe-horned into templates." It's depressing.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 07:13:17 PM
Quote
The topic is the mediocrity that is Disney and collateral damage that will be part of the merger. I offered a best case solution to save what made Fox, Fox.
You are correct. All this time, I have been so wrong! Disney is absolute rubbish and is going to run FOX properties until they become soulless, mediocre husks of what they once were.
(https://i.redd.it/p0or3k2rv6dz.jpg)
Oddly, that loops us back to the very first post in this thread. The Simpsons really does predict the future.
Quote
emotional investment
Look, man. We're never going to see eye to eye on this. Entertainment isn't something I ever recommend getting "emotional investment" in. Good or bad.
You have two options: Either entertainment is a business, in which case, you are mixing emotions and money, never a good thing - or - Entertainment is art, in which case you are *not* a customer and you do *not* get to tell artists how to express themselves.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Adrock on March 21, 2019, 07:35:08 PM
I don't want to get involved in this exchange as I've enjoyed being on the outside looking in.
I did look up Episode 3 in Season 6 of The Simpsons because that was right in the middle of the show's golden years, and I was curious why the episode was marked red in the chart above. It was a clips show if anyone is wondering.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 07:38:32 PM
RE: broodwars
Pretty much my sentiment. Hope is not a strategy and the track record isn't good.
The topic is the mediocrity that is Disney and collateral damage that will be part of the merger. I offered a best case solution to save what made Fox, Fox.
You are correct. All this time, I have been so wrong! Disney is absolute rubbish and is going to run FOX properties until they become soulless, mediocre husks of what they once were.
Oddly, that loops us back to the very first post in this thread. The Simpsons really does predict the future.
Quote
emotional investment
Look, man. We're never going to see eye to eye on this. Entertainment isn't something I ever recommend getting "emotional investment" in. Good or bad.
You have two options: Either entertainment is a business, in which case, you are mixing emotions and money, never a good thing - or - Entertainment is art, in which case you are *not* a customer and you do *not* get to tell artists how to express themselves.
It's as the business requires emotional investment to stay viable. Not acknowledging this means you have abandon your customers. They are not mutually exclusive as you keep repeating. As I pointed out, they are co-dependant and it is more than money changing hands. Even the greatest artist of old needed patrons to ply their art with varying requests and demands from none to paint this exact thing.
Using the Simpsons is the lamest irrelevant example you could have given. It ignores the very different circumstances as to how and why it has reached where it is which is not what faces Disney and Fox at this time unless you are thinking of an accelerated timeline with a very high gamma which broodwars believes has already happened while I think it can be mitigated for incoming shows.
I don't want to get involved in this exchange as I've enjoyed being on the outside looking in.
I did look up Episode 3 in Season 6 of The Simpsons because that was right in the middle of the show's golden years, and I was curious why the episode was marked red in the chart above. It was a clips show if anyone is wondering.
Oh I think I remember that episode. Yeah it deserves all the hate.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 07:39:55 PM
>Star Wars has looked like crap since Episode 7
Really?
Sometimes, I feel like I've entered an alternate universe where the prequels don't exist. Or were fundamentally different movies than the ones I saw. Not that I'm saying 7&8 are amazing masterpieces, but they're, at the very least, entertaining. Episode 1 is... ugh. Between Jar Jar, kid actor with no talent, and politics and economics.... I just cannot find Episode 1 entertaining. Even the Pod Race scene is so by-the-numbers boring.
And for what it's worth - I didn't even see Star Wars until my teens in the mid 90s. And they're... okay. I don't have the "emotional investment" or nostalgia tied to them that colors my view of Episode 1 (and 2. 3 is okayish).
As for what Disney is going to do with FOX properties - it goes back to my earlier comment. One mega corp buying up a second megacorp. I can't think of anything that's had the FOX logo attached to it in recent years that screamed new and original. The closest would be Orville - but is a Star Trek parody really original
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 21, 2019, 07:56:25 PM
Sometimes, I feel like I've entered an alternate universe where the prequels don't exist. Or were fundamentally different movies than the ones I saw. Not that I'm saying 7&8 are amazing masterpieces, but they're, at the very least, entertaining. Episode 1 is... ugh. Between Jar Jar, kid actor with no talent, and politics and economics.... I just cannot find Episode 1 entertaining. Even the Pod Race scene is so by-the-numbers boring.
I grew up on the original movies & saw the prequels as they released. Really, the only one of the 3 I can't stand is Episode 1. Attack on the Clones has everything involving Obi Wan to balance-out everything terrible involving Anakin, and Revenge of the Sith is kind of a legitimately good movie IMO. However, the thing I like about the prequels is that they are distinctly "different" from the original trilogy, focusing more on political movements and how decisions made with good intentions but in haste can lead to terrible outcomes.
Yeah, the writing's spotty at best whenever Padme and Anakin are in a scene together, but there's some genuinely cool stuff in the prequel trilogy IMO without absolutely obliterating my love for the original 3 movies.
Meanwhile, Episode 7 is the most bored I've been watching any Star Wars film, and that includes Episode 1. It's so by-the-numbers and boring, relying on nostalgia to paper over terrible writing; contrivance; and a colossal Mary Sue who apparently only became more so in The Last Jedi. And Darth Nasal was a joke. I think Dark Helmet was more intimidating.
I was so turned off by Episode 7 that I didn't bother watching the other Star Wars films. And yes, I know The Last Jedi blows everything up while utterly disrespecting the original films.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 21, 2019, 08:00:11 PM
>It's as the business requires emotional investment to stay viable.
Again, we are *not* going to agree on this. Rephrasing your opinion isn't going to change my mind.
>Using the Simpsons is the lamest irrelevant example you could have given.
Using one of FOX's most defining, most stable, most basic properties is a 'lame example' of how little care FOX has given their properties over the last 20 years?
Yeah... no. FOX has not only allowed Zombie Simpsons to continue running for so long, but they've pretty much forced it into the formulatic shell of what it once was, with their Scooby-Doo celebrity of the week, merchandising, and lead-ins to new shows. The Simpsons Movie *is* what FOX is.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 21, 2019, 08:10:03 PM
As a kid I was a collector of Goosebumps. Not one TV episode compares to the Books. Not the movies. Nothing is as good. I have a better imagination than any of the directors.
Same with the Martian. I read the book and the movie was **** to me.
Fight Club did a good job. There are only about 3 things left out of the movie, but they weren't that necessary.
I'm still waiting for a Willy Wonka and the Glass Elevator movie. The Witches is coming out again. I really liked the 90s adaptation.
I haven't been bothered to read any Harry Potter books. I've enjoyed the movies.
Remember that Dragon Ball movie?
I think the emergence of deep fakes will eventually kill copyright. There will be new movies starring your favorite actor, but they'll have been long dead. Also, soon you wont be able to tell the difference between CG and reality. In 20 years things are going to get weird.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 21, 2019, 09:33:47 PM
The PT exist and are bad, just not insultingly bad, kept things in line enough nor take a dump on OT. I was mostly bored with a couple WTF, boos. 'Sand' and 'NNNOOOOOO' jokes still has me laughing. Then there are damn good videos mocking the hell out of it. Even a history channel decided to make a sand joke. For all the bad we got something good out of it which I can't say for NuSW.
TFA opening crawl insanity foreshadowed how bad things were going to be. It instantly set off the WTF alarm as it couldn't wait to poochie SW fast enough among many, many legitimate issues. So many in fact it takes a multi-hour video to discuss the objective issues within.
Other than the excellent last 1/3 of Rogue One(Really annoyed this isn't rogue squadron) the only thing good I have gotten out of NuSW is this: (https://i.redd.it/1vyt15hpr1s11.jpg)
I can't stop laughing as it encapsulates a lot of what is wrong with NuSW.
>It's as the business requires emotional investment to stay viable.
Again, we are *not* going to agree on this. Rephrasing your opinion isn't going to change my mind.
>Using the Simpsons is the lamest irrelevant example you could have given.
Using one of FOX's most defining, most stable, most basic properties is a 'lame example' of how little care FOX has given their properties over the last 20 years?
Yeah... no. FOX has not only allowed Zombie Simpsons to continue running for so long, but they've pretty much forced it into the formulatic shell of what it once was, with their Scooby-Doo celebrity of the week, merchandising, and lead-ins to new shows. The Simpsons Movie *is* what FOX is.
It is a factual observation with plenty of evidence to back it up. It isn't an opinion. You seeing eye to eye isn't a requirement.
Nobody is disagreeing with "Simpsons" Bad. It's failure before it's zombie state and fall from relevance wasn't self induced. The Simpsons literally fell out of relevance the moment the 90's ended. It got finished off by Family Guy which made dropping it painless. The problem is that the Simpsons still has too much inertia to kill, it's been there so long it's a de facto institution or a US weapons program. While I don't know who is watching it there are enough things with eyes.
While it's saddled with The Simpsons it does try to do something new, crass, risky, let it out loose long enough for it to play out on it's own terms after many good season.(Firefly exception)
If nothing else it gave us Seth McFarland amazing talent. Orville has moved well beyond parody and ST shadow quite a while a go. It was an immensely risky at the time considering it was up again "STD" which turned out to be clown shoes terrible. I am legit interested in where every character on the ship is going, their serious stories. I want to know more about that crazy cool looking alien who gave Bortus porn.
Seth loves ST, he loved it so much he made videos of himself playing ST. His emotional investment has made an infinity greater show. He has rewarded our investment, our trust. In return among many positive things he gets money.
Imagine if Feige didn't care, you get DC movies.
Disney? Yeah right. When you are burning people out on the second movie and people are pointing out how the Beauty and the Beast remake strangely regressive while the original is empowering in tone something is wrong. The company is the zombie. Simpsons at least isolated itself. Even Incredible 2 was a strangely hollow messy retread of the first with a bizarre ending that deflates it. PIXAR, BRAD BIRD, how did this happen? It shouldn't have but it did.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 21, 2019, 10:23:15 PM
Quote
It is a factual observation with plenty of evidence to back it up. It isn't an opinion. You seeing eye to eye isn't a requirement.
An opinion being based on facts doesn't make the opinion itself a fact. This seems to be a recurring issue for you, where you are convinced that your point of view is unassailable and everyone who disagrees with you is flat-out wrong.
Quote
While it's saddled with The Simpsons it does try to do something new, crass, risky, let it out loose long enough for it to play out on it's own terms after many good season.(Firefly exception)
This is just an insane thing to say. Fox is notorious for having a quick hook for canceling shows. NBC lets things play out, Fox will pull the plug almost immediately if they think it's going wrong. Firefly isn't the exception, The Simpsons and Zombie Family Guy are.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Adrock on March 21, 2019, 11:24:31 PM
Fox also cancelled my favorite show, Wonderfalls, and just kind of let Futurama die. Some of my favorite episodes were after it returned including and especially the series finale.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 22, 2019, 12:13:58 AM
Phantom Menace (Which gave us Midiclorians but somehow didn't **** all over what came before) has been out for nearly twenty years now. Of course there's videos and memes all over the internet. Come back when 7 is 20 years old.
Okay, let's say I agree with you - it's perfectly normal - and okay - to be emotionally invested in a space opera where the lead female character open-mouth kisses her brother.
Do you honestly believe Lucas (Or Disney) has the same emotional investment in *you* watching the movies?
Since you don't like to answer questions, I'll go ahead and field this one.
He doesn't. He doesn't even know or care that you exist. You mean literally nothing to him.
How far do you expect to get in a relationship where one partner is so emotionally invested and the other partner literally doesn't give two dog turds?
Answer: The same place this conversation is going.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ShyGuy on March 22, 2019, 12:41:53 AM
Hey Guys! What's going in this thre-
(https://i.imgur.com/9Ybprve.gif)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 22, 2019, 02:06:42 AM
The Prequel/Disney movie discussion had me wondering, so I flipped over to RT...
Two of the four released Disney movies (7 and Rogue One) beat all three Prequel movies on both critic and audience score. Surprisingly, Rogue One comes in behind 7 in both categories (although it's only one point behind in audience score) This surprises me, as I thing Rogue One is leaps and bounds beyond what 7 offers.
The other two movies (8 and Solo) beat the Prequel movies on critic score.
Solo beats 2/3 Prequel movies on Audience score and barely loses to #3 - a mere 2% points.
8... wow. The audience score on it took a beating, putting it in last (10th) place amongst all live action Star Wars movies. Oddly, the critic score places it in 4th, behind 5, 4, and 7.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 22, 2019, 04:12:29 AM
Xbox Live is on Switch.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: lolmonade on March 22, 2019, 08:47:27 AM
There's some part of me that wants to rebut the Luke meme with arguing that most people don't follow a linear path from bad/conflicted to pure goodness, and often fight against their weaknesses their entire lives with both victories and failures. But the internet at large wants Luke to be a purely good and infallible hero, I get it. Also I feel like I've already lost by arguing with a meme.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Adrock on March 22, 2019, 08:52:52 AM
There's some part of me that wants to rebut the Luke meme with arguing that most people don't follow a linear path from bad/conflicted to pure goodness, and often fight against their weaknesses their entire lives with both victories and failures. But the internet at large wants Luke to be a purely good and infallible hero, I get it. Also I feel like I've already lost by arguing with a meme.
I love the range of emotions in this post.
Determination > Reflection > Acceptance > Despair
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: lolmonade on March 22, 2019, 09:57:42 AM
There's some part of me that wants to rebut the Luke meme with arguing that most people don't follow a linear path from bad/conflicted to pure goodness, and often fight against their weaknesses their entire lives with both victories and failures. But the internet at large wants Luke to be a purely good and infallible hero, I get it. Also I feel like I've already lost by arguing with a meme.
I love the range of emotions in this post.
Determination > Reflection > Acceptance > Despair
That's basically the order of operation from waking up to bedtime for me, lol.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 22, 2019, 10:01:19 AM
Luke is a person who will never quit. He got back up every single time even if it was he knew he was in for another beat down. Then for absolutely no reason he quits on everyone and everything. It's not a light/dark side issue.
What NuSW did to him was character assassination, as did Han, Leia. The sudden turn of events are unearned, Luke would not attempt to murder someone in their sleep over a bad dream. Him running away like Obi Wan did has no reason other than to repeat ANH with none of the justification that Obi Wan has like avoid getting murked, looking over Luke.
If you want Luke to fall you have to have something more substantial than a bad dream in a 10 second flash back. By screwing over Luke they also screwed over Kylo because he is just Evil, no reason, has been along.
Han, hero is now a dead beat dad who went back to smuggling and forgot where he parked his car. Leia decades later is fighting the same war they already won. Suddenly Mary Poppins.
Just because the problem is stated in a meme it doesn't make the problem go away.
Two of the four released Disney movies (7 and Rogue One) beat all three Prequel movies on both critic and audience score. Surprisingly, Rogue One comes in behind 7 in both categories (although it's only one point behind in audience score) This surprises me, as I thing Rogue One is leaps and bounds beyond what 7 offers.
The other two movies (8 and Solo) beat the Prequel movies on critic score.
Solo beats 2/3 Prequel movies on Audience score and barely loses to #3 - a mere 2% points.
8... wow. The audience score on it took a beating, putting it in last (10th) place amongst all live action Star Wars movies. Oddly, the critic score places it in 4th, behind 5, 4, and 7.
You always double back to the individual when discussing a collective based issue. They can't care for any one specific person but they must care for the collective.
lol citing RT these days. It's been discussed how broken RT is. You can't have a 50+- difference between viewer and critic scores without there something fundamentally broken with the system.
Midiclorians fucked with the idea of what the Force is while stupid it doesn't break the universe like the Light speed Ram does. If Admiral Ackbar could trade one cruiser for the Death Star instead of the Battle of Endor he would have. Why use bombers(wtf you have torpedoes... gravity bombs) when you can ram. Every space battle in SW is now broken. Have fun retconning. The Force is still the Force... but now with a pointless, vague and mundane explanation that no one asked for.
With the speed the Internet moves these days you don't need to wait 20 years for nearly all the memes to get extracted.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 22, 2019, 11:58:46 AM
There's some part of me that wants to rebut the Luke meme with arguing that most people don't follow a linear path from bad/conflicted to pure goodness, and often fight against their weaknesses their entire lives with both victories and failures. But the internet at large wants Luke to be a purely good and infallible hero, I get it. Also I feel like I've already lost by arguing with a meme.
Agreed on all this.
Luke was the original Mary Sue, being a little whiney farm boy who was just amazingly talented with The Force due to his secret lineage of Midiclorians that allowed him to become the hero of the movies - when he spent half of them just being a whiney little twit. Yoda didn't want to train him and knew it was a bad idea from the start.
And now, fans are surprised that Luke is a terrible person and a whiney little twit.
I wonder if they even watched the original trilogy.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 22, 2019, 01:50:33 PM
Well hopefully Rey will join the dark side in this next movie. They should have done it in the last move, but there is still time. Also, Luke doesn't die like we thought. He merely figured out how to teleport, which will lead to some bad-ass fight scenes. Also, Luke should wear all white like Gandalf did when Gandalf came back from the dead.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 22, 2019, 03:05:41 PM
Luke was the original Mary Sue, being a little whiney farm boy who was just amazingly talented with The Force due to his secret lineage of Midiclorians that allowed him to become the hero of the movies - when he spent half of them just being a whiney little twit. Yoda didn't want to train him and knew it was a bad idea from the start.
And now, fans are surprised that Luke is a terrible person and a whiney little twit.
I wonder if they even watched the original trilogy.
This line of thought is exists is to be a hot take and a fabrication to coverup the sequels horrendous writing.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 22, 2019, 03:19:01 PM
There's some part of me that wants to rebut the Luke meme with arguing that most people don't follow a linear path from bad/conflicted to pure goodness, and often fight against their weaknesses their entire lives with both victories and failures. But the internet at large wants Luke to be a purely good and infallible hero, I get it. Also I feel like I've already lost by arguing with a meme.
Agreed on all this.
Luke was the original Mary Sue, being a little whiney farm boy who was just amazingly talented with The Force due to his secret lineage of Midiclorians that allowed him to become the hero of the movies - when he spent half of them just being a whiney little twit. Yoda didn't want to train him and knew it was a bad idea from the start.
And now, fans are surprised that Luke is a terrible person and a whiney little twit.
I wonder if they even watched the original trilogy.
Luke is so not a Mary Sue. He gets a crash course on the Force from Obi Wan, and the most he ever does in the original movie is passively amplify his existing piloting skills for a single shot & some evasion. At the beginning of Empire, all he can do is crudely pull his lightsaber to him. Then he gets a REAL training period with Yoda that's still incomplete, so Vader kicks his ass & chops his hand off.
In Jedi, he has much more experience, and the EMPEROR still kicks his ass. Vader has to kill the Emperor for him. Luke actually gets hurt & loses a fair amount in the OT.
By contrast, Rey is the Wunderkin.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 22, 2019, 03:28:01 PM
>This line of thought is exists is to be a hot take and a fabrication to coverup the sequels horrendous writing.
I very strongly remember Wizard and ToyFare magazines making fun of Luke for being a whiny farm boy often.
But that could have just been them setting up a rebuttal for the bad story telling in the sequels twenty years later.
>Then he gets a REAL training period with Yoda that's still incomplete,
Luke's six months of training with Yoda, running through the swamp while Yoda wacks him with his beater is hardly comparable to the near lifetime of experience Rey has scavenging, grifting, and fending for herself in a wild-west space world.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VhvFMO1aoNk
Seriously, folks - Mark Hamill himself, the man who has publically gone on record with not being happy with Luke's treatment in 8, has stated in interviews that he played Luke as a whiny turd in the OT on purpose. To deny this is just silly.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on March 22, 2019, 04:08:05 PM
Now bring me Doom!!! and who wants to bet that there is a new end credit scene being worked on for Endgame and Spider-Man right now.
There's gotta be something going on. I think the easiest thing would be a Deadpool 4th wall breaking scene with some of the Avengers crew.
I've been wondering how they introduce everyone. The Fantastic Four could've been trapped in the Quantum Realm this whole time (bit of stretch though, if you'll pardon the pun). But the NYC Avengers Tower is perfect for the Baxter Building.
I've even been thinking that maybe Endgame ends with Cap and the crew making a universe where the snap didn't happen, forcing themselves to abandon the old universe for a super sad/dark ending. But that wouldn't really explain why there are suddenly mutants.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 22, 2019, 04:29:24 PM
Mutants are caused by the snap - people who were snapped then reversed are at risk of genetic mutation or some such.
Whatever they come up with, I look forward to seeing how they introduce Magneto. His ties to WWII are so much a part of his character...
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 22, 2019, 04:57:47 PM
>This line of thought is exists is to be a hot take and a fabrication to coverup the sequels horrendous writing.
I very strongly remember Wizard and ToyFare magazines making fun of Luke for being a whiny farm boy often.
But that could have just been them setting up a rebuttal for the bad story telling in the sequels twenty years later.
>Then he gets a REAL training period with Yoda that's still incomplete,
Luke's six months of training with Yoda, running through the swamp while Yoda wacks him with his beater is hardly comparable to the near lifetime of experience Rey has scavenging, grifting, and fending for herself in a wild-west space world.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VhvFMO1aoNk
Seriously, folks - Mark Hammill himself, the man who has publically gone on record with not being happy with Luke's treatment in 8, has stated in interviews that he played Luke as a whiny turd in the OT on purpose. To deny this is just silly.
A Mary Sue is a wish fulfillment character inserted into a story who's just naturally better at everything than everyone else & everyone loves them. It's named after a Star Trek fan fiction character who was exactly like that.
Luke being a whiny kid in A New Hope doesn't make him a Mary Sue. However, Ray's impeccable list of talents in just TFA ALONE do, talents that can't be hand-waived away with "she had a hard life."
Han tells her the Jedi exist, and she does the mind trick on her second attempt. She knows and pilots the Falcon, a ship she's never BEEN IN before, better than Han. She beats Kylo Ten, someone who HAS had lightsaber training, in her 1st lightsaber duel.
And that's not even getting into her talents beyond TFA.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 22, 2019, 05:38:16 PM
Who doesn't like Luke in the Star Wars universe? He gets a big open mouth kiss from his sister. The dirty scoundrel Han Solo becomes his BFF. His power of love even turns one of the biggest bads in the universe good.
Luke, with no on-screen experience in flying space craft, jumps into a military vehicle and outflies entire squadrons of pilots, making a near impossible shot (which, alone, is shitty story teling until it was retconned in Rogue One) without targeting systems.
Yes, Rey barely manages to beat Ren, who is bleeding out from Chewbacca's shot and with the help of FINN. That's perfectly believable. Let's see you lose half your blood and hold your own against an opponent who's been fighting for survival their entire life.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Adrock on March 22, 2019, 05:49:48 PM
Han tells her the Jedi exist, and she does the mind trick on her second attempt. She knows and pilots the Falcon, a ship she's never BEEN IN before, better than Han. She beats Kylo Ten, someone who HAS had lightsaber training, in her 1st lightsaber duel.
I’m not debating that other stuff again. For the bolded part: Get right the **** out of here with that. Han made the Kessler Run in less than twelve parsecs, motherfucker. No one pilots the Millennium Falcon better than him.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 22, 2019, 05:54:32 PM
Who doesn't like Luke in the Star Wars universe? He gets a big open mouth kiss from his sister. The dirty Luke, with no on-screen experience in flying space craft, jumps into a military vehicle and outflies entire squadrons of pilots, making a near impossible shot (which, alone, is shitty story teling until it was retconned in Rogue One) without targeting systems.
Yeah, I'm not letting this one go. He mentions in the movie several times that he's a fairly decent pilot from piloting his Skyhopper. If you go by the deleted scenes and the Radio Drama (and I do, because I love that Radio Drama) when his friend Biggs gets more screen time, Luke was widely considered good enough to enroll in the Imperial Flight Academy.
In the Radio Drama (which is largely based on an earlier Lucas script for ANH before it was edited down), Luke doesn't just get automatically thrown into an X-Wing. Dodanna & Biggs throw him in a flight simulator, where Luke "only dies twice." He's told to "cheer up" at that, as he did better "than most of the people going up in this mission" and Biggs was "throwing half the Imperial Starfleet" at him. The 1st episode of the Radio Drama also shows-up Luke's piloting expertise flying races against some local hotshots, where he wins a race by flying through "The Stone Needle", which you can find in the training level of the 1st Rogue Squadron game. He impresses Biggs, who's just about to defect to the Rebels.
You can argue the canonical nature of the Radio Drama, but it doesn't contradict anything that happens in the film and is supported by lines in the film. If we're supposed to accept that Rey is some badass fighter because she had to fight to survive off-screen, we can also accept that Luke was a hotshot fighter pilot who was never allowed to leave the farm and join the Imperial Academy. That is, by the way, a plot point in ANH.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 22, 2019, 05:57:34 PM
>This line of thought is exists is to be a hot take and a fabrication to coverup the sequels horrendous writing.
I very strongly remember Wizard and ToyFare magazines making fun of Luke for being a whiny farm boy often.
But that could have just been them setting up a rebuttal for the bad story telling in the sequels twenty years later.
>Then he gets a REAL training period with Yoda that's still incomplete,
Luke's six months of training with Yoda, running through the swamp while Yoda wacks him with his beater is hardly comparable to the near lifetime of experience Rey has scavenging, grifting, and fending for herself in a wild-west space world.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VhvFMO1aoNk
Seriously, folks - Mark Hammill himself, the man who has publically gone on record with not being happy with Luke's treatment in 8, has stated in interviews that he played Luke as a whiny turd in the OT on purpose. To deny this is just silly.
A Mary Sue is a wish fulfillment character inserted into a story who's just naturally better at everything than everyone else & everyone loves them. It's named after a Star Trek fan fiction character who was exactly like that.
Luke being a whiny kid in A New Hope doesn't make him a Mary Sue. However, Ray's impeccable list of talents in just TFA ALONE do, talents that can't be hand-waived away with "she had a hard life."
Han tells her the Jedi exist, and she does the mind trick on her second attempt. She knows and pilots the Falcon, a ship she's never BEEN IN before, better than Han. She beats Kylo Ten, someone who HAS had lightsaber training, in her 1st lightsaber duel.
And that's not even getting into her talents beyond TFA.
She isn't a Mary Sue. Rey is someone who is generally surprised with her abilities all throughout TFA. She knows the Falcon because of her boss owned the Falcon after Han lost it and his boss made some alterations on it. So she knows how it is currently built than Han did in the past. She even makes a comment about flying in ships before but has never left the planet to Finn after they escape at the beginning.
Kylo Ren was trying to get her to his side so he wanted her alive. He also was blasted by that powerful gun that Han and Chewie were using on stromtroopers that just blasted those away. So he is very injured and kept hitting his wound to keep himself going during the fights with Finn and Rey. Rey was also being very defensive and evasive while Kylo was being very aggressive with his movement until she realized she had the strength within her to beat Kylo in the state he was in.
Also a lot of what Rey can do isn't explicitly spelled out for the viewer. She is shown getting different ship parts and sells them so she has some working knowledge of how ships work. Her fighting ability is because of having to live on a planet all alone and having to learn how to defend herself as most women need to ,sadly have to learn, growing up.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 22, 2019, 06:12:50 PM
Dead Pool is a Mary Sue. He gains all those abilities just by being tortured.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Adrock on March 22, 2019, 06:16:07 PM
Snoke very specifically instructs Kylo Ren to bring Rey to him. He wasn’t trying at all to kill her until she started getting the upperhand. Ren just killed his father, got shot to **** by Chewbac...
Nope. I’m not getting into this. I’m still jokingly mad about the “better than Han” comment.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 22, 2019, 06:24:23 PM
I'm not letting this one go. He mentions in the movie several times that he's a fairly decent pilot from piloting his Skyhopper.
I was hoping you'd bring this up.
Luke's T-16 Skyhopper has a maximum altitude of 300km. The Earth's atmosphere extends roughly 480kms above the surface of the planet. It's reasonable to assume Tatooine's atmosphere is similar.
Thus my earlier statement, "no on-screen experience in flying space craft"
You can come up with as much off-screen stuff as you want. I have no doubt in 40+ years, we'll have a plethora of pre-Seven Rey material that one could use to justify whatever nit picks you might have. Which would be handwaved away as ret conning and poor story telling on the part of the movie. Which I'd agree with. Just like using the radio drama from four years after the release of ANH is ret conning and explaining away poor story telling.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 22, 2019, 06:26:06 PM
So which of these new Fox properties does everyone think will get a movie first in the MCU?
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 22, 2019, 06:30:24 PM
So which of these new Fox properties does everyone think will get a movie first in the MCU?
Well, if they still put out Dark Phoenix, which I don't think should count, I'd imagine they'd do another X-Men or Deadpool film, especially if they keep those characters goings. However, if not, I think Fantastic 4 would be the way to go. I think the Ragnarok director would be a good fit and is already familiar with the MCU and they would tie nicely into the cosmic pieces of phase 4.
Edit: Posting the below made me realize that the current incarnation of Alpha Flight could be a good fit, especially since it's a team led by Captain Marvel.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on March 22, 2019, 10:03:53 PM
So which of these new Fox properties does everyone think will get a movie first in the MCU?
Picture for conversational reference:
(https://i.imgur.com/pB83ExV.jpg)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Adrock on March 22, 2019, 10:16:10 PM
Not a new theory: Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver didn’t get their powers from the Mind Stone. They’ve been mutants the entire time and the MCU has been all House of M for years.
Marvel probably couldn’t and wouldn’t do a straight adaptation. Maybe Scarlet Witch de-powered mutants and made everyone forget about them including herself. Baron von Strucker used Loki’s scepter to unlock their mutant powers thinking the scepter gave them their power.
Reversing the snap in Endgame makes her remember what she did and/or resets “No more mutants” and mutants slowly begin regaining their powers and memories. Avengers 5 is Avengers vs X-Men.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 22, 2019, 10:27:30 PM
So which of these new Fox properties does everyone think will get a movie first in the MCU?
Well, if they still put out Dark Phoenix, which I don't think should count, I'd imagine they'd do another X-Men or Deadpool film, especially if they keep those characters goings. However, if not, I think Fantastic 4 would be the way to go. I think the Ragnarok director would be a good fit and is already familiar with the MCU and they would tie nicely into the cosmic pieces of phase 4.
Edit: Posting the below made me realize that the current incarnation of Alpha Flight could be a good fit, especially since it's a team led by Captain Marvel.
I think the Fantastic 4 could work for the first MCU one for a few reasons. It expands on the cosmic part of the MCU and you could bring in Galactus and the Silver Surfer. Reed Richards is one of the smartest people in Marvel comics and he could show his expertise with different mutations in the future but if Quick Silver and the Scarlet Witch come back then he can show the remaining Avengers ect that they are mutants and not powered my the mind stone. Then for the post credit scene they could do a little leaser for the X-Men and maybe tie in with Dark Phoenix and introduce the Shi'ar empire and the fall out over what Jean did in the Dark Phoenix movie.
This may not work if they want to introduce the X-Men in their own movie or if they want a new cast but that may be interesting.
I also like what Adrock said and it kinda ties in with mine in some respects.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on March 22, 2019, 10:31:30 PM
Not a new theory: Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver didn’t get their powers from the Mind Stone. They’ve been mutants the entire time and the MCU has been all House of M for years.
Marvel probably couldn’t and wouldn’t do a straight adaptation. Maybe Scarlet Witch de-powered mutants and made everyone forget about them including herself. Baron von Strucker used Loki’s scepter to unlock their mutant powers thinking the scepter gave them their power.
Reversing the snap in Endgame makes her remember what she did and/or resets “No more mutants” and mutants slowly begin regaining their powers and memories. Avengers 5 is Avengers vs X-Men.
Ah! I started to think "House of M", but that story took place in a world where Magneto was king of the world or something. So, I thought, well maybe it could be the inverse, but then I got caught up on why Scarlet Witch was still there with her full powers.
But the Mind Stone thing would make sense, since it could be causing the to "remember" their powers.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 22, 2019, 11:58:32 PM
RE: Uncle bob
Of course Luke a whiny turd at the start. He is stuck on the ass end of the galaxy desperate enough to go to into government military service to gtfo. He then gets lied to, pushed to physical, mental limits and emotional reveals. He has legitimate complaints. Of course the video has a lot of BS for comedy reasons, had some laughs.
He is experienced with flying, combat manoeuvres and shooting but his 'shoots back at you' combat inexperience almost kills him when he disregards advice. They wouldn't have sent him up unless he had shown some aptitude or skill. Biggs could have vouched for his flying skills "Just like back home".
He barely survives the Death Star, gets saved twice and needed Wedge to cover him, as part of a massive team effort to make a shot that he might have never had to make. He gets shot down in ESB losing his gunner. He barely survives to the end of the trilogy and has to rely on an emotional appeal to an estranged father's core spark of good. His combat ability and use of the Force the majority of the time is defensive, unimpressive, weak compared to every other user.
None of this requires material outside of the movies and I haven't listed every example.
A little look into definitions. Here is a softball version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhrfhQbY0K8
Luke is as about as far away from a Mary Sue as you could possibly get. Luke is an inspirational character not a self insert.
R1 answered a question nobody asked for from one line of dialogue. It was also answered better outside of the movie in the first Dark Forces game, Kyle Katarn stole it because he got paid to do so, killed a bunch of people to do it.
300 km is LEO and is space. Depending on the organization 80-100 km will get you astronaut wings. The lowest orbiting satellite I remember off hand was GOCE at 255km to measure Earth's gravity. 480km is an arbitrary number you threw out of nowhere. This is why I find you so disingenuous as you throw out obvious lies as chaff.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 23, 2019, 12:21:11 AM
I think when they re-introduce the X-men it should be through Deadpool. Deadpool has strange continuity with the rest of the X-men. I don't think Negasonic Teenage Warhead has crossed over and Colossus was different in Deadpool.
There is still time to Retcon Dark Phoenix and new mutants though. Actually new mutants would be a decent launching point for MCU with reshoots and editing. You could easily retcon Captain America Civil war as the starting point of the Mutant Holocaust.
If I were to do an X-men I start it off just like the cartoon. With Jubilee getting swept up into the X-men. It would be kinda like a zombie apocalypse movie in that while there are no Zombies there is a ton of Television News coverage talking about new acts to "take care" of mutants. Or it could be modeled after a holocaust movie like Shindlers list.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 23, 2019, 01:46:00 AM
Quote
300 km is LEO and is space. Depending on the organization 80-100 km will get you astronaut wings. The lowest orbiting satellite I remember off hand was GOCE at 255km to measure Earth's gravity. 480km is an arbitrary number you threw out of nowhere. This is why I find you so disingenuous as you throw out obvious lies as chaff.
Heterosphere.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 23, 2019, 06:19:03 AM
300 km is LEO and is space. Depending on the organization 80-100 km will get you astronaut wings. The lowest orbiting satellite I remember off hand was GOCE at 255km to measure Earth's gravity. 480km is an arbitrary number you threw out of nowhere. This is why I find you so disingenuous as you throw out obvious lies as chaff.
Heterosphere.
Wrong. It's a sub layer that is exists within the primary spheres where it's defining characteristic is the stratification of molecules by weight from the extremely low number of collisions. It is not a determination of what is space or atmosphere. Nor does it have a fixed altitude due to solar activity. You managed to get everything wrong.
You completely misunderstood who Luke is, why people like him, why what they did to him in NuSW is character assassination and why it pissed everyone off. What you said wasn't just a bad interpretation it's straight up wrong. Hence hot take.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 23, 2019, 10:36:15 AM
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 23, 2019, 12:35:07 PM
Mark Hamil said he felt like he was playing an alternate reality version of Luke.
I really enjoyed Force Awakens Despised The Last Jedi I have hope for IX
Rogue One has grown on me. I'm just not a fan of the characters and dialog in the movie. The Plot and the finale were pretty good though. Solo was fun though I'll never except Wrong Solo. It would have been better as an original Star Wars story instead of making it about an existing character. I grew up with multiple James Bonds and Batman but never had that "that's not Sean Connery" feeling until this movie. Solo had some great scenes. This should have been a Dash Rendar movie.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 23, 2019, 07:01:35 PM
Mutants are caused by the snap - people who were snapped then reversed are at risk of genetic mutation or some such.
that's been my pitch on how to bring mutants to the MCU. the unsnapenning brought them back... but not all of them came back the same....
this can also be the reason why Namor finally makes his way to the surface world. Figuring that surface dwellers have royally fucked something up if half of the Atlanteans have suddenly faded to dust, which would look really different under water... This will also bring him to Wakanda as that is where the "Snapenning" took place (he used some crazy Atlantis tech to pin point the location #comicbooklogic)
I think when they re-introduce the X-men it should be through Deadpool. Deadpool has strange continuity with the rest of the X-men. I don't think Negasonic Teenage Warhead has crossed over and Colossus was different in Deadpool.
How they integrate Deadpool and his supporting cast into the MCU will be interesting. They could have DP being the launch point of NuX-Men, and for the most part keep them separate, while somehow DP is able to cameo in both X-Men and Avengers movieverses, and I'd be ok with that too, but that's unlikely to happen.
I do much prefer DP's version of Colossus though.
Quote
There is still time to Retcon Dark Phoenix and new mutants though. Actually new mutants would be a decent launching point for MCU with reshoots and editing. You could easily retcon Captain America Civil war as the starting point of the Mutant Holocaust.
I'm still hoping Dark Phoenix never sees release in a movie theater. (Netflix, bail Marvel out one last time please). I was interested in New Mutants, but that isn't likely to ever see release, considering they still haven't even started shooting any of the reshoots they ordered.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 23, 2019, 07:49:48 PM
Mark Hamil said he felt like he was playing an alternate reality version of Luke.
I really enjoyed Force Awakens Despised The Last Jedi I have hope for IX
Rogue One has grown on me. I'm just not a fan of the characters and dialog in the movie. The Plot and the finale were pretty good though. Solo was fun though I'll never except Wrong Solo. It would have been better as an original Star Wars story instead of making it about an existing character. I grew up with multiple James Bonds and Batman but never had that "that's not Sean Connery" feeling until this movie. Solo had some great scenes. This should have been a Dash Rendar movie.
Yeah, Hamil tried to stop all this. Being an actor as part of a larger machine no matter how knowledgeable and immersed in the character he was they just didn't care. Their agenda was never about SW. Hijacking it was the goal in part by throwing everything before under the bus.
Knowing there is an actor who is time travelling Harrison Ford just makes it so much worse with so much lost potential. It no doubt killed what little momentum it had remaining.
LOL A Dash Rendar movie would have been pretty funny if they went full hack fraud route. Dude is a 90's photocopy Han with more of everything. For some reason the mention of his name can spark flame wars. Played it on the N64 and enjoyed it for what it was. I never read any of the media project material. Didn't know how funny the whole mess is until I found this:
That is a explanation of the 5 principle layers and what happens within them.
It does not define what is Space as that is not it's function. LEO starts at 300km. The ISS operates in LEO, as did the Space Shuttle and many satellites. The early Apollo missions to test tech was in LEO. Are you saying they all haven't been in space? You are considered an Astronaut past 80-100 km.
You're posting a link you're too lazy to support. If you are ignorant about the subject just admit it and take the hit. A good number of them would punch you like Buzz Aldrin would.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 23, 2019, 09:32:20 PM
They could always say Han Solo is like the Dread Pirate Roberts and Solo Han is different than OT Han. Then the movie becomes something different entirely. It might be stupid, but less stupid than having a guy who looks nothing like Han play Han. Also, the fact that he can't really be young Han because he's too old to be young Han. Young Han should have been like 17.
Aladdin should really be played by a 14 year old.
As far as Dash Rendar goes. I really enjoyed the shooter levels. Gall Space Port was fun to play. I spent hours messing around and replaying it.
Also some scenes on Solo corresponded to some scenes in SOTE. The train scene was really enjoyable as a SOTE fan. SOTE was actually my main entry point into Star Wars. Growing up they only ever played Return of the Jedi and I only ever watched it to the point when they are at the Sarlacc pit. I didn't watch original Star Wars until it was rereleased in 1997
Technically space is everywhere. We're in and moving through space as we speak.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 23, 2019, 09:46:27 PM
Quote
The ionosphere is an abundant layer of electrons and ionized atoms and molecules that stretches from about 48 kilometers (30 miles) above the surface to the edge of space at about 965 km (600 mi), overlapping into the mesosphere and thermosphere.
Dear NASA:
some guy on the internet says you're wrong and don't where space is. And that Luke Skywalker is awesome. Please hire him before you blow up another spacecraft. Thanks.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 23, 2019, 10:14:07 PM
Since this discussion has devolved into a technical argument of the where space starts I think it's about time for all involved to move on.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 24, 2019, 01:08:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 24, 2019, 02:54:35 AM
Since this discussion has devolved into a technical argument of the where space starts I think it's about time for all involved to move on.
I wanna circle back just a second (and I hope y'all will give me this one indulgence...) - you are correct, the technical boundary between the Earth's Atmosphere and Space isn't even really the issue here.
The issue is, does Luke have on-screen experience flying spacecraft before he Mary Sues his way into becoming a hero with a next to impossible lucky shot?
The answer is, resoundingly, no. Now, Luke brags about his amazing piloting skills, but we never see this in action prior to his amazing X Wing show.
Likewise, I can brag about my amazing singing voice, but I can't hum a tune in a box.
Luke's Skyhopper is, apparently, non-functional during ANH due to Luke's wreckless piloting skills as well. But that's not said in the script, so take that with a grain of salt..
But let's say Luke piloting the Skyhopper is like Anakin piloting a Pod Racer, but more whining and less terrible kid acting. Let's say he's literally the best creature to ever exist that has ever piloted a Skyhopper.
Is the Skyhopper a spacecraft?
Technical definitions aside, there are two primary factors that are going to define an actual space craft apart from a fancy plane. The first is the planet's atmosphere (friction, lift, etc.). At the max altitude of 300km ("Low Earth Orbit"), while still in Earth atmosphere, the air is so thin it is virtually not a factor. Although piloting a craft into that altitude would require a totally different skill set than boosting a ship out the shuttlebay doors, one could argue *that* actually takes more skill. However, it is a totally different set of skills. Most importantly, we don't really know *how* the Skyhopper works (since it's not shown on-screen - but there could be some out of the many expanded universe canon that details it). To achieve LEO (On Earth, of course.), it requires a speed of roughly 28,000 km/hour. A quick search shows Luke's Skyhopper with a max speed of 1,200km/hr. Not only is this speed well under the required speed for getting into orbit, it seems quite low for routinely reaching the max altitude claimed - regardless, the maximum speed of the craft is far to low to maintain an orbit, implying the name of a "Skyhopper" is just that, a craft that doesn't maintain these crazy altitudes for any significant amount of time, likely "hopping" from a landing pad to another.
Why does a ship need to maintain such speeds in order to maintain an orbital flight path at 300km? The second of the two factors that defines a space craft from a fancy aircraft - gravity.
In low earth orbit, gravity is about 9/10ths that of normal Earth gravity - fairly indistinguishable from planetary gravity. Now, I'm no expert, but I think it's safe to say there is a significant difference in piloting a craft in the gravitational field of a planet versus being in space, especially when gravity can so wildly fluctuate based on surrouding celestial bodies. Remember, gravity doesn't just 'end' in space.
So, the effect of the atmosphere on the Skyhopper is negotiable with the details we have, but the effects of gravity are significant.
Is the Skyhopper a spacecraft?
Ima gonna go with my first answer. Luke has no on-screen experience flying spacecraft until we see him jump in an X Wing and save the day.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: oohhboy on March 24, 2019, 03:22:46 AM
Wait did I or some one delete my post? If they did, not cool man, very not cool while letting UB willfully misrepresent information. If I made the mistake, I apologise in advance.
In any case orbital flight is not a requirement of getting in space or becoming an astronaut. Sub-orbital trajectories are also considered space flight. The method does doesn't matter.
Some people might argue that getting into orbit is what defines an astronaut. However, “I think Alan Shepard and Gus Grissom would disagree,” says Terry Virts, a former commander of the International Space Station who has spent more than 213 days in orbit. “They’re the first two U.S. astronauts who didn’t get into orbit.”
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Federal Aviation Administration, the U.S. Air Force, NOAA, and NASA generally use 50 miles (80 kilometers) as the boundary, with the Air Force granting astronaut wings to flyers who go higher than this mark. At the same time, NASA Mission Control places the line at 76 miles (122 kilometers), because that is “the point at which atmospheric drag becomes noticeable,”
Where does space begin? Scientists at the U of C have created a new instrument that is able to track the transition between the relatively gentle winds of Earth’s atmosphere and the more violent flows of charged particles in space—flows that can reach speeds well over 1,000 km/hr. And they have accomplished this in unprecedented detail.
Data received from the U of C-designed instrument sent to space on a NASA launch from Alaska about two years ago was able to help pinpoint the so-called edge of space: the boundary between the Earth’s atmosphere and outer space. With that data, U of C scientists confirmed that space begins 118 kilometre above Earth and the results were published this week in the Journal of Geophysical Research.
The instrument—called the Supra-Thermal Ion Imager—was carried by the JOULE-II rocket on Jan. 19, 2007.
You brought up the numbers UB, numbers you never understood. Just take the hit.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 24, 2019, 03:46:19 AM
The last thing I'll say on the issue of Luke's piloting skills is that Obi Wan actually acknowledges his skills when Luke first meets him in A New Hope.
Luke: "You fought in the Clone Wars?"
Obi Wan: "Yes. I was once a Jedi Knight, and so was your father."
Luke: "I wish I'd known him."
Obi Wan: "He was the best starfighter pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand you've become quite a good pilot, yourself."
Mind you. Obi Wan knew Anakin for years, and he's been watching Luke for decades. If Obi Wan's praising him, he's a pretty good pilot, even if within atmosphere. Obi Wan praises his piloting, and Biggs praises his piloting within the film itself. I think it's pretty safe to say the movie establishes this and often even without supplementary material like the Star Wars Radio Drama (which has Mark Hammil as Luke, so I'm inclined to consider it cannon).
Incidentally, according to Wikipedia, Lucasfilm also considered the Radio Drama Cannon until Disney blew up the extended universe as they did almost everything else.
"The Star Wars radio dramas were authorised adaptations of Lucas's scripts, and were originally considered part of the official Star Wars canon. Commentators have argued that, while the radio dramas vary somewhat from the film scripts, they should be considered canon insofar as they do not directly contradict the films.[5] In 1994, Lucasfilm's continuity editor, Allan Kausch, stated that "'Gospel', or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations."[6][7]"
But considering Star Wars has sound in space and combat based around inner-atmosphere WW2 dogfighting, I'm going to say it doesn't really matter in Star Wars whether Luke has experience in space or not, just whether it's in combat or not.
And yes, Luke beat the crap out of his Skyhopper pulling off that Stone Needle stunt.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 24, 2019, 11:58:50 AM
>You brought up the numbers UB, numbers you never understood. Just take the hit.
Sure. There's some carryover between the end of the atmosphere and the beginning of space, depending on the particular definition you use choose to utilize. But since we're talking about sustained flight and piloting, surely we can agree that the 300km altitude does not equate to spacde insofar as the skills require to pilot a craft.
>But considering Star Wars has sound in space and combat based around inner-atmosphere WW2 dogfighting,
This is an accurate assessment as well. The space battles in Star Wars aren't just unrealistic, but impossibly so (which makes the entire hyperspace battering ram complaint even more hilarious).
>I understand you've become quite a good pilot, yourself.
Obi Wan quickly changing the subject from one he didn't want to discuss to something complementing Luke (based off what? Obi Wan's own observations? Rumors? We don't know because *we*, the audience, never see this). Sounds reasonable.
>Lucasfilm also considered the Radio Drama Cannon
I'm not arguing for/against what is considered canon. I am saying that we see no evidence of Luke piloting a spacecraft on-screen.
If Disney puts out a line of novels that they say is canon and which addess every issue you have with 7/8, are you suddenly going to become a fan of 7/8? I'd assume not. Because putting supplementary material required to follow the story outside of the films does NOT excuse poor storytelling in the films.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on March 24, 2019, 02:42:18 PM
Maybe we should just lock the thread.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 24, 2019, 02:43:47 PM
I'm not sure that's altogether necessary when there's really only 1 person arguing in a more personal nature.
It takes two to tango, and neither seem willing to walk away.
I guess I don't see a reason to. We're discussing the merits of movies before/after a Disney buyout in a thread about Disney buyouts.
No one is forced to read any particular posts and can scroll on by.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on March 24, 2019, 04:10:01 PM
The first line is irrelevant because it's the way that conversation has been ebbing and flowing. The definition of where space starts and gravity is pedantic and tangential at best.
The second line is an incredibly low bar for anything.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 24, 2019, 04:35:36 PM
I agree and conceded that the location of where space starts has virtualy nothing to do with determining if Luke has on-screen experience flying spacecraft.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 24, 2019, 05:44:15 PM
So Predators can show up in the Star Wars universe now. Thats cool.
If predators exist in the SW Universe, then so would Aliens. and so would Earth....
I'm pretty sure the only place we will see Predators, Aliens and Midochlorians interact will be at a Disney Theme Park near you
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 24, 2019, 06:41:03 PM
Earth exists in Star Wars. Noa was trying to fix his ship to get back there in the second Ewok movie (co-written by Lucas) - at least, according to some secondary sources. :D
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: broodwars on March 24, 2019, 06:48:14 PM
Earth exists in Star Wars. Noa was trying to fix his ship to get back there in the second Ewok movie (co-written by Lucas) - at least, according to some secondary sources. :D
Just bear in mind that the Alien & Predator movies take place in the far future and Star Wars takes place "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away." ;)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 24, 2019, 06:58:27 PM
I've seen Predator 1 & 2, also Alien vs Predator none of those movies resembled anything that looked like the "far future"
But now I'm hoping to see a Predator hidden in the crowd at the next Universal Congress Meeting (or whatever they call it)
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 24, 2019, 06:59:54 PM
Earth exists in Star Wars. Noa was trying to fix his ship to get back there in the second Ewok movie (co-written by Lucas) - at least, according to some secondary sources. :D
Just bear in mind that the Alien & Predator movies take place in the far future and Star Wars takes place "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away." ;)
Nothing you cannot fix with a little sci-fi time travel!
Heck, even if they do exist in different universes/dimensions/whatever, it's sci-fi. One giant glowy sky portal and you have an invasion fleet coming through before Vader can take a breath. :D
"Oh, it looks like the destruction of Alderaan weakened the fabric of space time between our world and another..."
Ten cents says some kind of fan fiction already exists. 🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: UncleBob on March 24, 2019, 07:02:45 PM
Earth exists in Star Wars. Noa was trying to fix his ship to get back there in the second Ewok movie (co-written by Lucas) - at least, according to some secondary sources. :D
Not to mention the fact that the Millennium Falcon was part of the fleet fighting the Borg in Star Trek First Contact.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 24, 2019, 10:01:15 PM
Amblin or Universal owns ET, but ET has shown up in Star Wars
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on March 24, 2019, 10:59:35 PM
Alien exists in the future, for sure. Considering Prometheus is SPOILER ALERT when the Xenomorphs were first born, we could rule out an Alien/SW crossover. But I don't think the Predator got a proper origin, so maybe they could be in Star Wars.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 25, 2019, 04:15:04 PM
I would just have small cameos. Like they go into a Cantina and there is a Xenomorph there having a drink.
Though, I would for sure watch a Boba Fett vs Predator movie.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 28, 2019, 05:14:41 PM
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 28, 2019, 05:50:37 PM
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“Disney Princess” is not an arbitrary character title; it is a franchise, and the lineup is prestigious. The franchise was created in the early 2000s by Andy Mooney, then the chairman of Disney Consumer Products, mainly to sell merchandise.
They'll be canonized eventually. There will be apotheosis.
I think if weird disturbing alternate reality Pocahontas can become a Disney princess anyone can.
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Ripley is the Princess, because she is the heroine that opposes the Evil (Xenomorph) Queen and she has an animal sidekick (Jonesy).
Was an excellent comment. I would totally watch a remake of Alien done Disney style. With singing numbers about how bad it is to be on a freighter.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: nickmitch on March 28, 2019, 08:32:07 PM
Ripley is the Princess, because she is the heroine that opposes the Evil (Xenomorph) Queen and she has an animal sidekick (Jonesy).
Was an excellent comment. I would totally watch a remake of Alien done Disney style. With singing numbers about how bad it is to be on a freighter.
100% want this.
Also, I think Anastasia has a fair shot of being inducted, but still not fully likely. I kinda wonder if they'll ever do it for Leia, since she's already a part of one of their big brands.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: RABicle on March 28, 2019, 10:11:20 PM
Ripley is the Princess, because she is the heroine that opposes the Evil (Xenomorph) Queen and she has an animal sidekick (Jonesy).
Was an excellent comment. I would totally watch a remake of Alien done Disney style. With singing numbers about how bad it is to be on a freighter.
100% want this.
Also, I think Anastasia has a fair shot of being inducted, but still not fully likely. I kinda wonder if they'll ever do it for Leia, since she's already a part of one of their big brands.
Leia is a de facto princess/senator. So, it isn't a leap. Anastasia is backstory to Black Widow.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: Stratos on March 29, 2019, 11:55:21 AM
It won't happen guys. There is a distinct formula to the Disney Princess line. Moana, Elsa, and Anna are not part of this line for reasons. The purpose of the line as quoted previously by Perm, is to sell merchandise. It was conceived when Disney Leadership saw young fans dressing in their own makeshift dresses to see their favorite princesses, so selling the outfit is essential. Other than that, you need to be a female leader (or daughter of a leader) with a cute animal side kick. Ironically, this criteria is laid out in Moana by Maui, but Moana will never be a "Disney Princess" because her outfit is based off of traditional Pacific Islander garb, and they already got in hot water for trying to sell outfits from the movie a a move of 'cultural appropriation' and insensitivity. So they can't add her to the line intended specifically to sell merchandise and dresses.
Elsa and Anna are not part of it because the lineup is already 'white washed' so to speak and they want to diversify the princesses as much as possible to broaden the appeal to all people. And since Anya/Anastasia is also 'white' along with originally being a non-Disney property, it just won't happen.
Leia doesn't have a cute side-kick, and they have also not added any live-action princesses to the group. Also, the risk of kids stumbling upon Bikini Leia may give Disney pause to giving her parity with the Disney Princess lineup.
Title: Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
Post by: ThePerm on March 29, 2019, 04:23:04 PM
