Topic: Hockey Discussion: The Leafs Would Like To Borrow Taylor Hall's Horseshoe

[NWR_insanolord]

This is a thread about hockey, primarily the NHL, but any league or level is welcome.


We're about 16 games into the NHL season; how are everyone's teams doing?


My Flyers started off rocky, but they've been on a roll lately, winning 7 of their last 8 (and the 8th was an OT loss to the league-leading Capitals) and are currently winning 5-1 tonight against Florida. This rookie goalie they've got, Sergei Bobrovsky, is playing out of his mind, and in addition to that they're putting up tons of goals (13 in the last 5 periods). It took a shootout win on the last day of the season to make the playoffs last year; it doesn't look like it'll be that dramatic this year.

[TJ Spyke]

I really tend to only follow my local hockey team, the Rochester Americans (who everyone calls the Amerks, they play in the AHL and are the farm team of the Florida Panthers). They are not doing that well as they are in second to last place in their division.

[Ian Sane]

This year the Canucks were getting serious pre-season Stanley Cup contender hype.  Now every team has the delusional fans that think that EVERY year is OUR year, but this was different as it was "experts" who don't really follow Western teams as much talking about it.  That's very strange as we never really face those sorts of expectations.  I honestly can't let myself get into that kind of thinking.  Something always screws things up, that's just how it is.  The Canucks winning the Stanley Cup would be very surreal.  In my mind it seems purely hypothetical, I don't assume it will ever happen.

So far we've played quite well.  I really enjoyed the game against the Leafs on Saturday night.  The two teams don't face each other very much and the games always feel like an event.  There are a lot of Toronto fans here in Vancouver from the original six days where the Maple Leafs were the de facto team of English Canada.  So there's a good rivalry there.  I always figured it was one-sided where Canucks fans hate the Leafs but Leafs fans don't pay any attention to the Canucks.  But Saturday's game was in Toronto and there were a lot of Vancouver fans there and the announcers were hyping up the rivalry.  So this is a full-on rivalry now?

One bad thing about the Canucks' success is that I'm getting creamed in my office hockey pool by guys with the Sedins and Luongo.  I don't have any Canucks so as they do well my pool does poorly.  If I had to pick one I would rather the team do well over my hockey pool, but it would be nice to have both.

[apdude]

The Sharks are finally starting to play like we expected.  That Thornton suspension was a load of BS since he just stood there and the smaller guy ran into him and couldn't take it.  Our defence is a little suspect but they are starting to become more consistant.  Look for Torri Mitchel this year.  You haven't heard much about him in the past since he was out with leg injuries, but he is skating well this year and the puck is finding him.  He may end up in the 15-20 goal range which is good for a 3rd liner.

In other hockey news, my roller hockey team is 1-2 so far, and last game we got smoked.  Hopefully we can pull a W tonight.

[apdude]

Tough time in Sharks land.  Lost 3 in a row blowing 2, 2 goal leads in the third to lose in OT.  I hate the 3 point games but I guess it was a bit of a saving grace this time.  What do you guys think they should do with the OT system, go back to ties instead of the shootout system? 

Looks like philly is doing well over in the east.  They are my favorite east coast team, but that game against the lightning, what was up with that.  Can Stamkos be stopped? 

Well I'm going to the game on Wed against Chi.  Hope it will be a good one.  We need the win so hopefully they come out and play a strong game like they did against the kings.

[NWR_insanolord]

What I'd personally like to see done with overtime (aside from playing continuous OT until there's a winner like in the playoffs, which I'd love but they'd never do) is to switch up the point system so that a win in regulation is 3 points instead of the 2 it currently is, an OT/shootout win is 2, and an OT/shootout loss is still 1. That way every game is worth the same amount of points, and teams are rewarded for winning without it going to overtime. In addition, they should increase the amount of overtime played from 5 minutes to at least 10.

[Ian Sane]

The winter Olympics had 3 points for every game and it was such an obvious idea you really question the intelligence of the NHL management.  I have never met anyone who doesn't think the current "sometimes there's 3 points" system is stupid.  It is so obviously stupid you have to think that maybe it is on purpose.  It adds a certain randomness to the standings which will allow the occasional undeserving team to make the playoffs, thus creating the illusion of parity which gets fans' hopes up so that they'll in theory give their team more business.  A little bit of random chaos ensures that there are less lame duck teams with no chance.

I personally still get upset about a couple of years ago when the Edmonton Oilers went to the finals.  They got in on the last seed in the west, beating out my Canucks, because they had more "loser points".  They lost more games but tended to lose in shootouts a lot so they came out ahead.  I think this was the FIRST YEAR the shootout was used and the exact worst case scenario that skeptics were worried about happened.

The 3 point system is the way to do it if you're going to give out loser points.  I personally was never bothered by ties so if they just had a short overtime and it remained as a tie, so be it.  I also wouldn't care if they just did wins and losses outright with no loser points and just used win/loss percentage like the other leagues do as it is easy to understand.  Yeah it sucks to lose on a shootout but the playoff seeds have been decided by shootout results already.  Shootouts count, even with the loser point, so if your team loses in a shootout, tough, it's their own fault for not getting the job done and the other team had the same risk of losing.

One thing that does offend me about shootouts and not allowing ties is that that seems to be designed entirely to attract attention from people that don't like hockey.  It's altering the game for the benefit of the non-fans.  A real hockey fan would not stop watching because of ties.

[Khushrenada]

They lost more games but tended to lose in shootouts a lot so they came out ahead.

Losing in a shootout is the same as having the game end in a tie or losing in overtime. Now, if they got into the playoffs because they were winning a lot of shootouts, then you have a legitimate point.

[apdude]

Post-Lockout OT is definatly better than pre-lockout OT since in the pre-lockout days a winner was rarely decided in the 5min OT because everone was playing not to lose, and now they are playing for the extra point so they play with nothing to lose so to speak so you see more games get decided before the Shootout.

With that in mind do you think that if they did go to the 3 point regulation win, if a game was tied with say 5-7min left, both teams would be playing defensive and take no chances, in order to force the overtime as to not give 3pts to a rival?  I'd hate to go back to the Devils style of hockey everynight.

Although it would make the last 20 games of the season very exciting since teams can make up points quickly.

[Ian Sane]

Losing in a shootout is the same as having the game end in a tie or losing in overtime. Now, if they got into the playoffs because they were winning a lot of shootouts, then you have a legitimate point.

No, the point is that when the shootout was introduced the loser point came with it.  Now you could lose a game but still get a point out of it.  Vancouver had 42 wins that year while Edmonton had only 41.  But 13 of Edmonton's losses were in overtime or the shootout while only 8 of Vancouver losses received the extra point.  Because of the loser point a team with LESS WINS and MORE LOSSES made it into the playoffs and in this case they even made it to the finals.  This was the exact hypothetical scenario that critics of the loser point came up with to point out the serious flaw in the rule and it happened on the very first season with the loser point in place.
 
It's also worth nothing that two seasons after the NHL abolished ties Martin Brodeur set the record for most wins in a season.  Now Brodeur is an amazing goalie and a future hall of famer and still pulled off quite a feat.  But the record is somewhat tarnished because the previous record holder, Bernie Parent, did not have the luxury of shootout wins to pad his stats.  The record was only broken after the rules were changed in such a way that gave present day goaltenders an advantage.  That's a good knock against the shoot-out (but even then I would be fine if shoot-out wins was a seperate stat for goalies).

[NWR_insanolord]

You got a point for losing in OT before the introduction of shootouts.

EDIT: The Flyers were losing 2-0 when I turned the game on tonight, but proceeded to score 3 unanswered and win. They aren't as dominant as they were during the 9-0-1 stretch, but they're getting the job done.

[apdude]

Sharks game on wed was awsome.  Sharks won 5-2 and it was in convincing fashion.  Douglas Murry was back and in a big way.  He was hitting everything that moved took lots of good shots from the point and even saved a goal in the last minutes.  Good to have him back, after loosing 3 straight without him.  Just shows that the sharks need another quality defencemen to have a little more depth.  Also sat about 10 rows back from the glass and saw ryan clowe beat the crap out of the chicago player (can't remember who).  Chicago is not the same team as a year ago, no scoring depth and they lost there goal crashing presensce when Byfuglin left the team. 

Tonight they play Vancouver.  Ian your team is going down!  uhhh... nevermind....

[NWR_insanolord]

I've never seen a ref call goaltender interference because a guy put his hand up, blocking the goalie's vision, but that's how they disallowed what would have been the game winning goal for the Flyers in OT this afternoon, leading to a shootout loss.

[fireponrome]

hello people, i follow the oilers and by oilers i mean the edmonton oilers.  i also follow the okc barons of the ahl as much as i can...   the barons games i've listened to this season have been very enjoyable.  the oilers, well, not as much.   


i am a philadelphian and do enjoy the flyers but since i am a direct tv subscriber i do not get to enjoy them visually because we do not get comcast sportsnet philly.   D* and comcast do not get along because of D* having nfl sunday ticket and comcast not having access to that service(see comcast terrestrial loophole for more info)..... shame really but it is in fact my reality so i choose to follow another team and have done so for about four years now.  i'm more or less new to following hockey i must add...  i write more or less because being a philadelphian it's truely hard to escape sports because they are everywhere....oddly enough i remember crying back in 1987 after the flyers lost game seven against the oilers.  hah, i believe i was in third grade if i remember correctly.   how was i supposed to understand that the flyers just lost to one of the greatest hockey squads of all time? 

[apdude]

Well it's on tomorrow My Sharks visiting Insanolord's Flyers.  Seeing as how the Sharks had an impressive victory in Detroit, they will probably lose since they have been stuck in win one, lose one mode for the last 10 games or so.  I hope they've turned a corner on this season, but this will be a tough test against the what I feel is the best team in the east.

------------------------

Wow that was a crazy game, 3 on 3 in OT, the puck on the line with 0.0 left... absolutely ridiculous.  The sharks had no right winning that game, they had a good 5 min in the 3rd and some fortunate calls, but that was it.  If the Flyers can improve there PP I think they can win the East.

[NWR_insanolord]

Yeah, that was nuts. Still, it shouldn't have gotten to that point; the Flyers had a 4-1 lead in the 3rd and they let it get away.

[Armak88]

I'm from Toronto so I'm a leafs fan... so yeah, I'll just show myself out. Seriously though, I don't think that the leafs have been playing terribly in the last 3 games which is nice to see. Tough loss against Philly, there were some pretty soft goals given up, but other than that I thought it was reasonably close. I still think the flyers were the better team and deserved to win, but at this point I just like to see them give it an honest effort.

[apdude]

Toronto is proably my favorite Canadian team, but I don't get to see them that often.  I mainly remember the sharks playing them in second round the 93 playoffs (when Toronto was in the western confrence or whatever they were calling it back then).  That was the first year the sharks made the playoffs and nearly beat Toronto after beating Detroit in the first round.  If Sandis Ozilinch didn't hit the damn crossbar of a wide open net in game 6 OT they would have made the confrence finals.  But Doug Gilmore and Wendel Clark were studs.

[NWR_insanolord]

The Flyers play the Penguins tonight, and I'm wearing my Flyers jersey on a campus where the majority of people are Penguins fans. The Pens' win streak ends tonight.

[NWR_insanolord]

No Versus on the cable we've got on campus, so I've had to rely on the ingenuity of the fine people on the Internet to let me watch the Flyers and Penguins. Tied 1-1 right now, but it shouldn't be; Nodl and Hartnell have each had shots at open nets that went wide.

EDIT: Not 5 seconds after I posted that Zherdev gave the Flyers the lead on a great 2 on 1 play.

EDIT 2: Goddammit, I love Chris Pronger so much.

EDIT 3: SCOTTIE HARTNELL!!!

Now dammit, whatever you do, don't give them another power play; that's the only way they've been able to score.

EDIT 4: GODDAMMIT WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!


FINAL EDIT: They made it way too exciting at the end, but the Flyers took the game, the division lead, and the best record in the league. As for the Penguins, 12 in a row doesn't mean **** if you can't win the big ones.

[Guitar Smasher]

Do you think the Flyers would have been as motivated if the Penguins weren't on a 12 game winning streak?  I'm guessing this one was bigger to the Flyers than to the Penguins.

[NWR_insanolord]

Flyers-Penguins is always a big game, no matter how good or bad the teams are they're strongly motivated. Also, the game decided who has the best record in the league, a major motivator for both sides. The Flyers' desire to end the streak is canceled out by Pittsburgh trying to keep it alive.

[apdude]

Well the NHL is getting into the long haul part of the season.  What does everyone else think of the season so far?  I'm quite supprised by Dallas.  I thought they got off to a good start but would fizzle, but that team never gives up.  They went from a guaranteed two points last year to a tough game and will make the pacific division very interesting down the stretch.  Also what happend to Washington.  Being over on the left coast we don't get to see Eastern teams much, but I did get to see some of washington the other week (since all VS plays is either washington or pittsburg games) and they seem a lot slower and disorganized than I remember from last year.  Do you think they rely on Ovetchkin too much? 

[NWR_insanolord]

As a Flyers fan, I don't think I have any right to complain about anything so far.

EDIT: How the hell can you beat Pittsburgh, Montreal, and the Rangers back to back to back and then be down 3-0 to the goddamn Florida Panthers?

[apdude]

The Sharks put out a christmas video.  Here is the link http://www.svse.net/holidays2010/.  There are some inside jokes that people who don't follow the sharks or sharks broadcast might not get, but it's pretty funny anyway since hockey players can't act.  Enjoy.