Author Topic: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.  (Read 35388 times)

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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #200 on: May 19, 2020, 02:00:15 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I just want to see them keep mixing up the formula, personally.


To pimp the Nintendo Power interview once again, the producer of this game (Kensuke Tanabe?) said he hopes to do exactly that and that he doesn't believe they'll ever go back to the old style of Paper Mario's. 

So, it is Couchmonkey's fault for the series not returning to do a copy of the TTYD that certain fans want.

Highly debated bumping this topic or starting a new one as I'm all for new threads. But I'd hate to start one just to seemingly abandon it as I sometimes get accused of doing.  ;)  Plus, it is fun to read back on people's thoughts in the moments of when this game came out and was fresh. I may create a thread of my own later on to try my hand at doing a review later but we'll see.


I've finally gotten into this game about 13 years since it first was released in North America. Since the Paper Mario is so hot right now, it seemed like a good time. I seem to be in a pattern right now where the announcement of a new Paper Mario game gets me excited to go and play one in my backlog that I haven't gotten around to. I played Sticker Star a couple months before Color Splash and now I'm playing SPM before Origami King. Can't wait to play Origami King when The Pop-Up Princess is released in 2028. Anyways......

I'm about halfway through the game. Chapter 5-2. And I've got to say it is shaping up to be the weakest entry in the series I've played. I feel like this game should be the one that has the reception Sticker Star seems to have gotten. That said, I wouldn't call it a huge failure but a mostly by-the-numbers affair of trying to include and keep some of the tropes/routines the series had at that point while mixing in its new gameplay hook of 2D/3D that hasn't really impressed as much as I hoped it would. I'd also say the writing has had more misfires than hits as well. Surprisingly, while evoking memories of the original and TTYD with some of its gameplay patterns, I mainly find myself wanting to go back and replay Sticker Star instead of going on with this game. I feel like I need to a Sticker Star is actually great post like Neal just did with Color Splash.

Looking over the past comments, I see a lot of people bringing up some of the factors I also feel hold the game back from being a success. But there is a mixed reaction of some people completely loving the title. I wonder if they'd still feel the same way now... But perhaps we'll find out with this thread being bumped.  :)

Just wanted to post something about it right now since it is on my mind but, please, no spoilers yet if you do want to post something and have long beaten the game. While I have an idea of where this is leading to and how it will end, I don't want to find out right now and further lose motivation to keep playing.

Offline pokepal148

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #201 on: May 22, 2020, 02:49:14 AM »
I'm starting this up as well using the shockingly solid off TV Wii play thing the Wii U can do.

Wii U in bed! Who needs a Switch?
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #202 on: May 27, 2020, 04:35:34 PM »
Sort of getting near the end of it. Like I could play the 8th chapter and get through the end but have been mucking about first with some other stuff like the Pit of 100 Trials and Treasure Maps. This game has a lot of filler collectibles. Like, what is the point of filling out all the Recipes in your main menu / pause screen when it seems like they are given in the cooking helper DS at the cooking shop? Not only is there a Pit of Trials but there are 2 of them and the second one you have to do twice. The distraction with character cards. The Arcade with its low point rewards meaning the couple prizes worth winning could take a looooong time and are hardly that beneficial. (Raising attack 1 level and increasing HP by 5.) The game just seemed to include a lot of padding to try and give players something else to do besides progress just progressing through the so-so story. And because the platforming 2D/3D levels aren't that big, there is just a lot of backtracking through all the chapter subsections. Glad I looked at a FAQ though since it showed me a way to help boost up my wealth and coins for when I need it as that is a bigger treasure than character cards. And what's with the obsession on bathrooms in this game? Is the final battle going to be Mario jumping on Count Bleck as he sits on the crapper?

I'm surprised this game still gets so highly praised while Sticker Star gets all the hate.

Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #203 on: May 28, 2020, 02:51:49 PM »
I'm surprised this game still gets so highly praised while Sticker Star gets all the hate.

Oh I agree.  Super Paper Mario is not only the worst Paper Mario by far, it's easily the worst Nintendo games I've ever played, not counting the primitive early NES games like Urban Champion.  The gameplay in Super Paper Mario is just really shallow.  As a huge fan of platformers, the level design in this game is lacking and with hardly any engagement.  IS really should have realized early on since they have no experience with making a 2D platformer, and did something else.  This is why the game becomes ridiculously padded after the halfway point because IS had no idea how to create a more challenging platforming experience that would still work with the RPG elements and so went the Sonic Team route of just putting in as much pointless crap as possible to drag out the run time.

I'm sorry to anyone that likes the game but too me trying to combine a traditional 2D Mario platformer, with the RPG elements of Paper Mario just doesn't work.  Both styles of gameplay are the polar opposite of each other, and as a result water both down to the point where neither element works in this game.  That's what makes it my most hated Nintendo game because it's just so boring to me.  It feels more like an interactive novel at times then an actual game which is inexcusable for a Mario game.

This game is basically Miyamoto's worst fear come to life.  IS focused all there attention on the story while neglecting the gameplay.  So when less then 1% of Club Nintendo said they cared about the story, the part of the game IS put the most focus on, it's no surprise Miyamoto laid the smackdown when it came to story in a Mario game after that.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #204 on: May 28, 2020, 05:37:13 PM »
That's what makes it my most hated Nintendo game because it's just so boring to me.  It feels more like an interactive novel at times then an actual game which is inexcusable for a Mario game.

This game is basically Miyamoto's worst fear come to life.  IS focused all there attention on the story while neglecting the gameplay.  So when less then 1% of Club Nintendo said they cared about the story, the part of the game IS put the most focus on, it's no surprise Miyamoto laid the smackdown when it came to story in a Mario game after that.

Bombs away!!

Hahaha! I guess Wii years were tough for Miyamoto. Super Mario Galaxy sneaking in some story for Rosalina, Super Paper Mario trying their idea of merging platforming and storytelling, Wii Music :smug:

But now that you bring this idea up, it does make me wonder if Sticker Star was an attempt to correct what failed in Super Paper Mario by thinning down the story quite a bit to focus more on the gameplay of exploring levels and battling. In fact, in this light, I can kind of see Sticker Star as a re-do of Super Paper Mario. Scrapping out the 2D to 3D level mechanic and just having you explore a sort of 2D level in 3D (think Super Mario 3D Land/World) to find some secrets and solve a bit of a puzzle to get to the end while actually entering into a battle screen when attacking rather than just the platform jumping/attacking in SPM. Thinking along that line, I'd have to say Miyamoto was/is right. Making the gameplay more interesting while cutting back on story worked for me in Sticker Star.

Plus, Sticker Star benefits from looking and sounding darn good. Instead of just picturing flat characters in 3D spaces, Sticker Star got the series onto its current aesthetic of imagining these worlds made out of arts and crafts supplies and really leaning into the paper idea of Paper Mario and I'm a big fan of this change. (I wonder if IS were influenced by Good Feel and Kirby's Epic Yarn with its arts and craft look. Of course there is the earlier game of Yoshi's Story 64 but consider the first Paper Mario games didn't use that idea for the art direction following its release but did after Epic Yarn's release, I like to think that the Greatest Wii Game has had major influence on all manner of Nintendo development since. 8) ) In any case, the artstyle of Super Paper Mario is not doing the game any favors either. It changes up a bit between worlds so some are better than others but the majority of it is just... too abstract, too busy, too clashing... too something.

As a further aside, Super Mario Galaxy 2 also cuts back on story a bit as well. While story is not really an issue with the first game, there is a vast difference in how much I prefer SMG2 over SMG1. So, if that was also a smaller case of Miyamoto's Revenge then thank goodness he flipped some tea tables and took a page from Reggie with some kicking ass.   ;D  ;)  Both games surpassed their predecessors.

On a final note, I can't really get to the level of hate you profess for the game. It still has a few redeeming features/moments that have kept me engaged to keep playing it. I just see it as a misfire. It takes a lot to really make dislike something with a passion (so, once again, congrats Star Trek: Discovery) but it definitely fails in that I'm not sure I'd ever want to play it again once done or want more of this experience.

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #205 on: June 15, 2020, 10:20:42 PM »
So, I've been sitting at Chapter 8-1 for a couple weeks now. I suppose I should just wrap this thing up and move on but this game ruined the interest I had in it and is now being trounced by Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition as I play XC1 for the first time. I wanted to get through the 2nd Pit of 100 Trials but this game has a terrible management system for money and grinding for some just pretty much killed my enthusiasm for playing.

The best trick I saw for earning money was to do a card capture on Amazing Dayzee who can be found in Chapter 5-2. Trading in an Amazing Dayzee card is worth 300 coins. The problem is that to catch it you need to spend 100 coins for a Special Capture Card or Capture Card SP. (Something like that.) So, you sort of make 200 per Amazing Dayzee. Moreover, you can only capture it once and then you have to exit the level and re-enter it to capture another one. I'd done this process a couple times but didn't want to keep doing it every time needed coins. So, I had one card and captured Dayzee to get 300 coins. Used those to buy three more cards and went through the process again. Used the 900 I then earned to buy 9 more cards and then went through the capture process again. So, now I've got 2700 in coins that I can use for all other manner of quests and purchases that I want. Since you're only allowed up to 999 coins, I'll still have to trade some in from time to time to actually add the coins to my total. From there, I then started buying some ingredients to stock up for the Trials Pit. Since you can only hold up to ten items and the meal I wanted required 2 items that meant I could get 5 meals made then store those and get another 10 ingredients to then get another 5 meals made and then take out from the store the 5 earlier cooked meals. That might have taken about an 60 - 75 minutes. With that done, I was ready to finally go back into the pit. However, you can't stop and save during it and I knew it would take about an hour to get through. Since it was late already, I saved my progress and shut it down and haven't gone back to it since. That grinding was just so dull that after finally going through it to set myself up to continue on the adventure, I just don't care anymore.

The story doesn't help either. I don't really care about any of the villains. The game has been spilling its cards for awhile that Bleck and Tippi were/are lovers. The divided Ancient tribes and different Prognosticus books are just vague nonsense to try and add some depth to an under-developed or cliched story. In my last post, I said couldn't get to the level of hate that Luigi Dude professed for the game but I'm getting a strong feeling of dislike when I think about it. At this point, when it comes to the title of Worst Mario Game, I definitely think this should be highly considered in the discussion.

Now, one could say, well, then don't bother with the side stuff but even if I didn't then this game is pretty weak to stand on its own just based on the main story. If it weren't then I don't think the developers would have bothered to add all that extra fluff and "challenge" to it. Part of it seemed to be because some of these things were done in the first two Paper Mario games but that kind of stuff worked in an RPG where there was a lot more to do it. But trying to carry those traditions into a platformer game just does not work.

I'm really thankful right now for the direction this series took after this game with Sticker Star and on in which they finally cut out a bunch of this dead weight. This game is lucky it released early in the Wii's lifespan. It's ridiculous that this is the best selling title so far of the Paper Mario series. If nothing else, I hope Origami King can at least take that away from this game by releasing on the Switch and having little around its release so far. For this game to be the major Paper Mario experience for many players is a real shame and maybe why this series has never taken off like other franchises. (It probably didn't help either that so many people treated Sticker Star like it killed their childhood and over-reacted to the changes it brought.)

As mentioned at the outset, I've started playing XC1. Even with the graphical upgrades, it still feels/looks like a Wii game to me. Monolith basically said that its not like they completely rebuilt the graphics and environments for the game from the ground up. They just polished things up a bit. I suppose I'd compare it to a 360/PS3 HD game despite having little familiarity with them. It's in HD but it looks sort of like early HD development compared to how XCX looked or the various clips of XC2. I've spent a lot time in Colony 9 and it's got that look / feel of rust brown that was often joked about early HD games. For me, looking back at the titles on the Wii compared to what has since come, there isn't much of the "top titles" that have aged that well or might still be considered "must play". Off the top of my head, I'd probably select Metroid Prime 3, Kirby's Epic Yarn and Super Mario Galaxy 2 as great games still worth checking out. Yet, playing XC1, I can totally see why this game created such a reaction at the time for those that did play it and worked to get it ported over to North America. It's still early for me and I've only just left Gaur Plains to the next area after exploring it as best I could but I can see myself declaring it the best Wii game despite not having played it on my Wii.

I also bring up XC1 because compared to SPM, doing the extra fluff of sidequests and battling is much more rewarding. Even the gem crafting is better done than the cooking aspect although that has been one of the weaker things of interest so far. With XC1, it has got me pumped to go back and finish XCX because I'm starting to understand a lot of the systems in place for that game despite knowing I've got a lot more time I'm probably going to be spending on just this one game. It's got me excited to go through all the games in this series. Super Paper Mario, on the other hand, has kind of killed my interest in playing another Paper Mario game anytime soon. (That said, the stuff I've seen of Origami King still has me pretty jazzed for it so it should hopefully rid myself of those feelings.) XC1 still holds up 10 years later but I'm not sure SPM even held up at the time of its release considering I got it early on and it just never excited me that much to play it for some 12 - 13 years until now.

Enough typing. Back to playing.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #206 on: June 17, 2020, 07:28:41 PM »
I'm afraid I'll have to agree with Khushrenada here. Super Paper Mario is easily the worst in the Paper Mario subseries, and one of the least amounts of enjoyments I've gotten from a Nintendo-published title. I don't particular like Sticker Star or Color Splash for different reasons, but both are still better than Super.

Super Paper Mario is not only the worst Paper Mario by far, it's easily the worst Nintendo games I've ever played, not counting the primitive early NES games like Urban Champion.  The gameplay in Super Paper Mario is just really shallow.
Hmmm.....

Well the game has been getting 9's from pretty much every major publication so it's not really surprising.  But after reading about all the different reviews the game easily sounds like a perfect 10 to me. It sounds like the game ended up the way I expected it to all along, so I'll have no problems with it.
HMMM

Yeah I'm aware the second post was before he played the game, but the turnaround here still tickles me.

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #207 on: June 18, 2020, 10:56:02 AM »
I'm afraid I'll have to agree with Khushrenada here. Super Paper Mario is easily the worst in the Paper Mario subseries, and one of the least amounts of enjoyments I've gotten from a Nintendo-published title. I don't particular like Sticker Star or Color Splash for different reasons, but both are still better than Super.

Woooo!!! Our affinity just went up a level. We are now internet best buds! We've unlocked a new level on our skill trees.

Not gonna lie. Saw you had posted to this thread and clicked to see your comment expecting you were going to disagree or defend the game a bit. Was surprised to see you actually in agreement!  :o ;D


Quote
Super Paper Mario is not only the worst Paper Mario by far, it's easily the worst Nintendo games I've ever played, not counting the primitive early NES games like Urban Champion.  The gameplay in Super Paper Mario is just really shallow.
Hmmm.....

Well the game has been getting 9's from pretty much every major publication so it's not really surprising.  But after reading about all the different reviews the game easily sounds like a perfect 10 to me. It sounds like the game ended up the way I expected it to all along, so I'll have no problems with it.
HMMM

Yeah I'm aware the second post was before he played the game, but the turnaround here still tickles me.

The truth bomber gets defused by the post demolition expert!

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #208 on: June 18, 2020, 11:08:51 AM »
As an aside, I had happened to be discussing games with RABicle and brought up my thoughts on SPM. Bill Aurion saw it and chimed in that it is still his favorite Mario RPG. So, thank goodness he doesn't come around anymore to keep posting terrible opinions like that.  ;D ... :'(



Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #209 on: June 18, 2020, 01:44:29 PM »
Super Paper Mario is not only the worst Paper Mario by far, it's easily the worst Nintendo games I've ever played, not counting the primitive early NES games like Urban Champion.  The gameplay in Super Paper Mario is just really shallow.
Hmmm.....

Well the game has been getting 9's from pretty much every major publication so it's not really surprising.  But after reading about all the different reviews the game easily sounds like a perfect 10 to me. It sounds like the game ended up the way I expected it to all along, so I'll have no problems with it.
HMMM

Yeah I'm aware the second post was before he played the game, but the turnaround here still tickles me.

The truth bomber gets defused by the post demolition expert!

Hey I was insanely hyped for this game before release.  We finally got the first 2D Mario in over a decade with NSMB DS, and here we had another one on the way.  But unlike, NSMB which was intentionally meant to be a retro throwback, Super Paper looked like an original unique take.  It's even in my original post.

When I first read about the game at last years E3, I was expecting it to be just a spin off of Paper Mario with more Platforming and so it wouldn't be like the other Mario Platformers.  And now when I read these reviews, it sounds like the game ended up the way I expected it to all along, so I'll have no problems with it.

I mean here's what the first trailer back when it was still a Gamecube game looked like.


Even the Wii launch trailer still looked more like a pure platformer then it was.


This is what made the final game so disappointing to me.  The actual platforming ended up being so bare bones.  The second half of the game in particular just devolves into endless fetchquest to the point where it doesn't even feel like it can be labeled a platformer anymore. 

I'd say the final game is more of a 2D Adventure then Platfomer.  The levels are more about finding someone to talk to, then delivering something to someone else to finally open a new path.  It ends up sharing more in common with something like Zelda 2 or the Wonderboy in Monster World games then a traditional platformer like Mario.  Except that brings up another problem since Super Paper Mario fails at being a 2D Adventure game as well.  Something like Zelda 2 or Wonderboy at least have challenging action sections to keep players engaged, while Super Paper Mario's combat and action is just as dull as the platforming.


Seriously, I really wanted to love this game but by the end I just couldn't. 
I’m gonna have you play every inch of this game! - Masahiro Sakurai

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Super. Paper. Mario. April. 2007.
« Reply #210 on: October 28, 2020, 06:27:05 PM »
Well, after going back to this game to beat the story during Backl-August, I moved on to finish other games and play through DKCR:TF. But I still felt the pull of going back to complete my goal of getting all the map treasures. Popped this game in Sunday and did that. I noticed that a good chunk of the treasures were the character cards. Looked at my character cards and I still needed 80 of them. Wrote down a list of what I needed and decided to see if I could finish that up as well. Why? Why does my brain get obsessive-compulsive with acquiring all the doo-dads in a game?

Looking at a FAQ, 7 came from going through the Chapter 6 Sammer Kingdom which I really wasn’t interested in doing after all the Pit of 100 Trails playing. Yet doing that would also check off another task for really completing this game. Plus, I did have some good healing items for the treasure map rewards. After going through 100 rooms and immediately breathing Bowser Fire on the opponent, I got that repetitious task done in about 50 – 60 minutes. That Sammer Kingdom experience is probably the best encapsulation of this whole game. There was one moment that made me sit up and take notice though. That’s when I ran into an opponent saying this:



I recognized that immediately as the text in Vudu’s signature. The Sammer opponent proceeded to run through all the text of Vudu’s signature. I never knew where Vudu’s signature came from before. Guess I could have done a Google search on but I was never that curious about it to do that. I kind of thought it came from the forums or Funhouse since the 06 – 07 early HD years were mocked a bit for all the games with a brown hue as though it made them serious, dark or next-gen. So, it was a neat little find for me to learn that came from NoA localization and this game.
After that, I kept buying a bunch of blind cards and checked in with another card shop for specific character cards. Got down to 12. One of them came from getting 100 shop points and I only had 45. Made 55 more purchases to get that. Captured 8 others. Then I kept going back and forth between the card shop and another area so that the named cards available for selling would change. 40 – 50 minutes later, I finally collected those last cards. With that, I ejected the game in the trash and that was that.

Can’t believe I ended up doing that after all but I’d gotten that far, it just seemed like I might as well finish off that task. When JusDBerube finally gets over complaining about Korok seeds, let’s see him accomplish this and see which is worse.