Author Topic: Is Xbox Live a Ripoff (Read 10476 times)

pokepal148 · « **on:** February 17, 2013, 04:18:15 PM »

[I have decided to bump this thread to provide some previous discussion we can use to address the larger topic of if Xbox Live is worth paying 60$ a month for, the original 'XBL vs on disc dlc' debate remains intact]

all i want for online services is online play, a store, and maybe voice chat.. i dont really care about the extras and i already have internet. what makes the xbox so special that i should have to pay a seperate fee just so somebody at microsoft can flip a switch and let me do things i can already do(and paid for) on the PS3 or Wii U(including online services like netflix that i'm also already paying for)

[here i pose the original topic discussion comparing Xbox Live to on disc DLC...]

Now to address the clickbait title... people complain about on disc dlc and that's exactly what xbox live charges for... locked features in your 200$ game system... at least on disc DLC has the DECENCY to be a one time fee

So i ask... WHAT MAKES THE XBOX SO SPECIAL THAT I SHOULD PAY 60 BUCKS A YEAR TO DO WHAT CAN BE ALREADY DONE ON PSN AND NINTENDO NETWORK....

Lets try to keep this civilized

ShyGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2013, 04:28:59 PM »

Nothing for me.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2013, 04:32:19 PM »

Xbox Live costing money is a relic of the way the market was 10 years ago. Back then Nintendo had no online presence, and Sony had barely any. Xbox Live was far and away the best console online service, and people were willing to pay for that. Over time Sony and Nintendo have largely caught up with Microsoft's service, but Microsoft has retained the fee because they can, because people are still willing to pay for it. It'll only become free if people start to jump ship to other platforms and stop paying for it.

TrueNerd · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2013, 04:49:30 PM »

Live is a joke. Especially in comparison to Playstation Plus.

Morari · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2013, 10:15:30 AM »

Quote from: NWR_insanolord on February 17, 2013, 04:32:19 PM

Xbox Live costing money is a relic of the way the market was 10 years ago.

Pretty much this. Console gamers never really seemed to understand the internet. Probably just another reason that something as great as the Dreamcast was largely ignored by the public. It was too far ahead of its time in many things, and coming with a built-in modem and decent online support was just one.

If your average Joe had his way, we'd all be using AOL again. Most people never leave their glorified portals, whether it be YouTube, Facebook, Xbox Live, etc. The world wide web may be more popular than ever, but the breadth of unique content has shrunk dramatically.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2013, 02:07:51 PM »

Quote from: Morari on February 18, 2013, 10:15:30 AM

Quote from: NWR_insanolord on February 17, 2013, 04:32:19 PM
Xbox Live costing money is a relic of the way the market was 10 years ago.

Pretty much this. Console gamers never really seemed to understand the internet. Probably just another reason that something as great as the Dreamcast was largely ignored by the public. It was too far ahead of its time in many things, and coming with a built-in modem and decent online support was just one.

If your average Joe had his way, we'd all be using AOL again. Most people never leave their glorified portals, whether it be YouTube, Facebook, Xbox Live, etc. The world wide web may be more popular than ever, but the breadth of unique content has shrunk dramatically.

I remember when you could find all these unique pages out there like on geocities and what-not. I like cryptozoology, and you could find some unique stuff. The pages usually had ugly wallpaper, animated gifs, and no menu system. Used just clicked on the next page link on the bottom of the text. And USENet! There was all kinds of stuff on USENet...

broodwars · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2013, 02:51:34 PM »

Quote from: Morari on February 18, 2013, 10:15:30 AM

Pretty much this. Console gamers never really seemed to understand the internet....If your average Joe had his way, we'd all be using AOL again. Most people never leave their glorified portals, whether it be YouTube, Facebook, Xbox Live, etc. The world wide web may be more popular than ever, but the breadth of unique content has shrunk dramatically.

Ah...good ol' PC gamer condescension: making me glad to not be a PC gamer since the 1990s.

As for the topic at hand, I really don't see much difference between the two, either, and it's part of the reason I rarely use my 360 (that and not having a WiFi adapter). I'd actually argue that on-disc DLC is better than Xbox Live simply because gamers can choose to pay a small fee to unlock the content they want. It's still not a great practice, but at least the gamer can only pay for what they want on a case by case basis.

With Xbox Live, though, you're paying that $60 regardless of whether you want Netflix, Hulu, etc. or the vast majority of Xbox Live online play experiences. I can't just pay say...$5 to experience Halo 4 online for a year. No, I have to pay for content I don't want just to access the content I do want. It'll be interesting to see if Microsoft will still be able to charge a subscription fee for online play when they transition to the their next console, as services like PlayStation Plus give you so much more return on your investment without making you feel like you're locked out of content.

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2013, 02:57:01 PM »

At best, it's foolish to think on-disc DLC is the same or better than Xbox Live. At worst, it's moronic. On-disc DLC is content that is part of the game and locked away on purpose. Xbox Live is just optional multiplayer. And the service on Xbox Live is superior to PlayStation Network in terms of service and value (no, I don't consider being able to rent games a great value). You also don't need to worry about non-EA servers on Xbox 360 being taken down. No one is making you play online, nor is it part of the actual game (minus the few MMO's on the system like Final Fantasy XI, although you can play that without a Xbox Live Gold subscription). It's no different than MMOs that charge you a monthly fee to play the game even though you already bought it.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2013, 03:57:35 PM »

I don't think it's that crazy to compare Xbox Live to on-disc DLC. Making you pay a monthly fee to use services like Netflix that you're already paying a separate monthly fee for and that cost Microsoft nothing for you to use is a pretty lousy business practice.

pokepal148 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2013, 04:18:30 PM »

Quote from: TJ Spyke on February 18, 2013, 02:57:01 PM

At best, it's foolish to think on-disc DLC is the same or better than Xbox Live. At worst, it's moronic. On-disc DLC is content that is part of the game and locked away on purpose. Xbox Live is just optional multiplayer. And the service on Xbox Live is superior to PlayStation Network in terms of service and value (no, I don't consider being able to rent games a great value). You also don't need to worry about non-EA servers on Xbox 360 being taken down. No one is making you play online, nor is it part of the actual game (minus the few MMO's on the system like Final Fantasy XI, although you can play that without a Xbox Live Gold subscription). It's no different than MMOs that charge you a monthly fee to play the game even though you already bought it.

HOW IS IT BETTER... the server thing is the only decent argument i've heard (and correct me if im wrong dont pc gamers have a way to set up their own private servers anyway)

also if multiplayer is so optional friend codes wouldn't be a problem

and like i said. im paying for internet, i bought my xbox, i am subscribed to netflix

why do i have to pay to let a guy at microsoft basically flip a switch

but im happy we have a debate now

Morari · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2013, 10:02:21 PM »

And to think, these big companies keep paying off their political-critters to trick you into thinking that net neutrality is bad. You already pay your ISP, you already pay a subscription to Netflix, but now you're expected to also pay Microsoft for the privilege of using your ISP to access Netflix? No thanks.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2013, 12:34:04 AM »

I don't think net neutrality would apply in this particular instance.

TrueNerd · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2013, 06:13:35 PM »

Quote from: TJ Spyke on February 18, 2013, 02:57:01 PM

At best, it's foolish to think on-disc DLC is the same or better than Xbox Live. At worst, it's moronic. On-disc DLC is content that is part of the game and locked away on purpose. Xbox Live is just optional multiplayer. And the service on Xbox Live is superior to PlayStation Network in terms of service and value (no, I don't consider being able to rent games a great value). You also don't need to worry about non-EA servers on Xbox 360 being taken down. No one is making you play online, nor is it part of the actual game (minus the few MMO's on the system like Final Fantasy XI, although you can play that without a Xbox Live Gold subscription). It's no different than MMOs that charge you a monthly fee to play the game even though you already bought it.

Xbox Live - Pay to use services that are free literally everywhere else.

Playstation Plus - Pay to rent A LOT of games and the opportunity to buy A LOT of highly discounted games.

One of those things only looks like it's a service and value if it existed in a vacuum. The other one is an actual value.

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2013, 05:25:08 AM »

I happily pay for XBL because the quality of online play is noticably better than PSN. I also buy a lot of XBLA games when they go on sale, so I get those discounts.

Also realistically, it's always been $30-35 a year when you snag your cards off Amazon or whoever happens to be having a sale.

pokepal148 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2013, 07:39:57 AM »

Quote from: S-U-P-E-R on February 20, 2013, 05:25:08 AM

I happily pay for XBL because the quality of online play is noticably better than PSN. I also buy a lot of XBLA games when they go on sale, so I get those discounts.

Also realistically, it's always been $30-35 a year when you snag your cards off Amazon or whoever happens to be having a sale.

it makes since that xbl is faster because it uses a more unified server system then psn(or whats on the wii u to my knowledge)
but it should still be 0$ a year.
and why does a 'paid' or 'premium' service need ads

Louieturkey · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2013, 01:02:21 PM »

Quote from: pokepal148 on February 20, 2013, 07:39:57 AM

and why does a 'paid' or 'premium' service need ads

Because they can. You look at shingi and he is praising their ads and I'm guessing he's not the only one.

I will say that I wouldn't be surprised if Sony followed suit with the ads on the PS4's UI. They do it because people keep buying it and playing it with or without the ads. So why not make a little more money?

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2013, 03:20:41 PM »

Quote from: pokepal148 on February 20, 2013, 07:39:57 AM

Quote from: S-U-P-E-R on February 20, 2013, 05:25:08 AM
I happily pay for XBL because the quality of online play is noticably better than PSN. I also buy a lot of XBLA games when they go on sale, so I get those discounts.

Also realistically, it's always been $30-35 a year when you snag your cards off Amazon or whoever happens to be having a sale.
it makes since that xbl is faster because it uses a more unified server system then psn(or whats on the wii u to my knowledge)
but it should still be 0$ a year.
and why does a 'paid' or 'premium' service need ads

Why "should" it be free? They are providing you a very good service, it's not wrong of them to have you pay to support it. I don't think it should be $60, but it's fine that they charge for it (and no, it is wrong to say charging for Xbox Live is worse than on-disc DLC or just as bad). And unlike on PS3, Xbo 360 lets you play even 5 year old games online (unless its a EA game).

Also, Xbox Live has very ads (like 1 or 2). And you still get ads on cable TV (despite paying for it), Hulu Plus (despite paying for it), magazines (despite paying for it). So you can't bitch about that because it's standard for things you pay for to still have ads.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2013, 05:33:51 PM »

What service does Xbox Live provide that isn't provided for free on other platforms?

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2013, 05:38:01 PM »

Forming voice chat parties is one thing I think?

pokepal148 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2013, 07:38:56 PM »

lets take a basic look at the definition of on disc DLC... apparently nobody sees my logic in that comparison
locked content on a video game that requires a seperate purchased to unlock

the xbox 360 features locked features on the system itself that require the use of a $60/year subscription to use

and thats on top of what you pay for the internet each month of that year(dunno about the net alone but a cable bundle type thing would cost around 720$ a year)

and netflix also(but i can use that on more then one device)

now considering that i have that to deal with that 60 dollars just because this one device sitting by your tv thinks its special lost it's welcome a while ago. and the dlc like i said has the decency to be a one time deal (dont get any ideas capcom)

Quote from: S-U-P-E-R on February 20, 2013, 05:38:01 PM

Forming voice chat parties is one thing I think?

you mean cross game chat? mentioned that but i will add this on that subject
microsoft always loved those dang patent lawyers...

pokepal148 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2013, 07:42:11 PM »

Quote from: S-U-P-E-R on February 20, 2013, 05:38:01 PM

Forming voice chat parties is one thing I think?

like Skype :-D

pokepal148 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 20, 2013, 07:47:46 PM »

Quote from: TJ Spyke on February 18, 2013, 02:57:01 PM

At best, it's foolish to think on-disc DLC is the same or better than Xbox Live. At worst, it's moronic. On-disc DLC is content that is part of the game and locked away on purpose. Xbox Live is just optional multiplayer. And the service on Xbox Live is superior to PlayStation Network in terms of service and value (no, I don't consider being able to rent games a great value). You also don't need to worry about non-EA servers on Xbox 360 being taken down. No one is making you play online, nor is it part of the actual game (minus the few MMO's on the system like Final Fantasy XI, although you can play that without a Xbox Live Gold subscription). It's no different than MMOs that charge you a monthly fee to play the game even though you already bought it.

that part of the game is hopefully optional also
nobody is making you buy the dlc
the dlc is not part of the actual game

and online play is locked away on purpose to make you go gold..

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #22 on:** February 20, 2013, 07:53:59 PM »

Except online is not part of the game itself. On-disc DLC is done and complete, so you are not paying to download anything, you are paying to unlock something already on there. And if you play games online, Xbox Live is worth it

nickmitch · « **Reply #23 on:** February 20, 2013, 09:00:08 PM »

If they never told you about the on disc DLC, you never bought it.

pokepal148 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 20, 2013, 10:18:28 PM »

Quote from: TJ Spyke on February 20, 2013, 07:53:59 PM

Except online is not part of the game itself. On-disc DLC is done and complete, so you are not paying to download anything, you are paying to unlock something already on there. And if you play games online, Xbox Live is worth it

im saying the ability to use xbox live is a part of the 360(and the ability to play online is a part of current and next gen systems in general) is locked unless you pay the monthly fee. you are paying in essence, to unlock the capability to play online that the system already has

xbox live takes the idea of 'on disc dlc' to a system level
even capcom at least has the decency to make it a one time fee

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Author Topic: Is Xbox Live a Ripoff (Read 10476 times)