Topic: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think

[Pixelated Pixies]

I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.

 
Nintendo should definitely put it's own weight behind the Wii U, but to disregard the appeal that third party software holds would be risky. Quite frankly, there are genres and games with content and themes that Nintendo wouldn't touch with a 10 foot grapple beam. There are also games that Nintendo are simply not capable of making. Nintendo cannot be all things to all people, and it is in the spaces that Nintendo don't operate that third party's have traditionally found success on Nintendo platforms, providing the types of games that Nintendo can't or won't publish.
 
My worry is this. If Nintendo is not receiving third party support at a point when their system's technical aspects are comprobable to their competitors (ports being made that much easier), then what hope do they have come next year when Orbis and Durango have lept over the Wii U? Based on history I would have to suggest that the Wii U is likely to be another Wii (at least in terms of third party support). It is this worry that has urged me not to buy a Wii U yet. I had fun with my wii, but was continually frustrated by the huge gaps in the release schedule.
 
When I was younger I could play a game for months and therefore the gaps did not bother me so much. I'm at a stage now, however, where I can afford more games, I'm open to playing a broader spectrum of games, and I want a system that can support that diet. If the Wii U continues on it's current trajectory it's likely to be another Wii, and honestly? As much as I love 10 or so games on that system, I'm not buying another Wii.
 
What I'm saying is, Nintendo could throw as much weight behind their system as possible, releasing more games per year than ever before, and the Wii U would still not have a software library that could objectively be considered inclusive. So Nintendo can either court third partys in the hope that they can turn the situation around, or they can give up and just let the Wii U become another Gamecube (a secondary system owned almost exclusively to play Nintendo games).
 
Personally I'd prefer they try the former.
 
 

[StrawHousePig]

It's not about universal appeal, it's about 3rd parties complaining that people won't spend their money on their titles when Nintendo has their own out at the same time. They don't want Nintendo to compete on their own platform because Nintendo are the ones to beat. WTF crap is that? How far does Nintendo comply? No idea, but I agree that they shouldn't.

Also, I was gonna grab Rayman for the kids because they went crazy for the demo, but if that's the way Ubisoft wants it, they can cram it.

[Plugabugz]

Two problems:

Nearly all of Nintendo's major games come out in years 2-4 of the lifecycle. The bookends (the start and end) are usually always dry. They've had two generations to reshuffle this, but have done nothing.

The second is the lack of western developers. Retro can't do everything.

[Ceric]

I've always wondered if Nintendo locks in these third party developers with iron-clad contracts, then they come begging to Mr. Iwata.

"Iwata-San! We are the poor and miserable Capcom! If we do not port the Capcom Five (four) to the PS2, surely we will perish! ooooooooh"

"I am the great and merciful Iwata! Once too, I was a developer. I have great sympathy for you. Therefore, I will allow you out of your iron clad contract!"

"Iwata-San! We are the poor and miserable Tecmo! If we do not port Ninja Gaiden: Razor's Edge...."

Personally if I was Iwata-San I would have a clause in the contract that if something I paid developement, publishing, marketing, etc. for goes multi-platform in a region I did this in then either:
A) Nintendo gets a share of every sales.
B) Nintendo gets recouped the money it invested.

That is the only fair and business way to handle that situation.
3 Generations Nintendo has unsuccessfully tried to lure 3rd Parties to their platform.  Enough is enough.  If they come they come.  Don't make it hard and still be willing to work with them but, no longer count on them.  I take the same approach with rebates.  I've been burned enough to not count on receiving them but if I do that's nice.

[UncleBob]

I would love for Nintendo to be able to just keep a steady supply of high quality software and not have to worry about 3rd parties to fill in the gaps.

This.  Although it would make third parties cry (See title of article), Nintendo should release a title every month for each platform - with at least one "AAA" title every quarter for each platform.

What's the tie in ratio for the average console?  It's likely less than ten.  If Nintendo releases 12 games a year over the course of 5 years, with four being "AAA" titles, that would give gamers 60 first-party titles (20 or which would be "AAA").  I can't imagine that wouldn't be enough to keep any casual gamer happy.  And nothing keeps hard-core gamers happy, so no one should worry about keeping them happy.

This would, of course, mean Nintendo would need to get some more first-party and second party studios under their belt.

Frankly, Nintendo has shown with the N64 and the GameCube that they have the ability to support a system on their own.  And that's all they need to worry about.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Frankly, Nintendo has shown with the N64 and the GameCube that they have the ability to support a system on their own.  And that's all they need to worry about.

That's debatable. There were huges periods of time with both consoles that I was bored senseless because of the lack of releases.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.

 
Nintendo should definitely put it's own weight behind the Wii U, but to disregard the appeal that third party software holds would be risky. Quite frankly, there are genres and games with content and themes that Nintendo wouldn't touch with a 10 foot grapple beam. There are also games that Nintendo are simply not capable of making. Nintendo cannot be all things to all people, and it is in the spaces that Nintendo don't operate that third party's have traditionally found success on Nintendo platforms, providing the types of games that Nintendo can't or won't publish.
 
My worry is this. If Nintendo is not receiving third party support at a point when their system's technical aspects are comprobable to their competitors (ports being made that much easier), then what hope do they have come next year when Orbis and Durango have lept over the Wii U? Based on history I would have to suggest that the Wii U is likely to be another Wii (at least in terms of third party support). It is this worry that has urged me not to buy a Wii U yet. I had fun with my wii, but was continually frustrated by the huge gaps in the release schedule.
 
When I was younger I could play a game for months and therefore the gaps did not bother me so much. I'm at a stage now, however, where I can afford more games, I'm open to playing a broader spectrum of games, and I want a system that can support that diet. If the Wii U continues on it's current trajectory it's likely to be another Wii, and honestly? As much as I love 10 or so games on that system, I'm not buying another Wii.
 
What I'm saying is, Nintendo could throw as much weight behind their system as possible, releasing more games per year than ever before, and the Wii U would still not have a software library that could objectively be considered inclusive. So Nintendo can either court third partys in the hope that they can turn the situation around, or they can give up and just let the Wii U become another Gamecube (a secondary system owned almost exclusively to play Nintendo games).
 
Personally I'd prefer they try the former.
 
 

I'm not suggesting Nintendo try to do this entirely with their own internal studios. More projects along the lines of Bayonetta 2 or Wonderful 101, or Excitebots or Punch-Out or whatever, where they partner with an outside studio to make a game, would be a part of something like this.

I'm just saying that since there doesn't seem to be anything Nintendo can do to win over third parties and have them voluntarily support the platform, they should concentrate their efforts elsewhere.

[Caterkiller]

I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.

 
Nintendo should definitely put it's own weight behind the Wii U, but to disregard the appeal that third party software holds would be risky. Quite frankly, there are genres and games with content and themes that Nintendo wouldn't touch with a 10 foot grapple beam. There are also games that Nintendo are simply not capable of making. Nintendo cannot be all things to all people, and it is in the spaces that Nintendo don't operate that third party's have traditionally found success on Nintendo platforms, providing the types of games that Nintendo can't or won't publish.
 
My worry is this. If Nintendo is not receiving third party support at a point when their system's technical aspects are comprobable to their competitors (ports being made that much easier), then what hope do they have come next year when Orbis and Durango have lept over the Wii U? Based on history I would have to suggest that the Wii U is likely to be another Wii (at least in terms of third party support). It is this worry that has urged me not to buy a Wii U yet. I had fun with my wii, but was continually frustrated by the huge gaps in the release schedule.
 
When I was younger I could play a game for months and therefore the gaps did not bother me so much. I'm at a stage now, however, where I can afford more games, I'm open to playing a broader spectrum of games, and I want a system that can support that diet. If the Wii U continues on it's current trajectory it's likely to be another Wii, and honestly? As much as I love 10 or so games on that system, I'm not buying another Wii.
 
What I'm saying is, Nintendo could throw as much weight behind their system as possible, releasing more games per year than ever before, and the Wii U would still not have a software library that could objectively be considered inclusive. So Nintendo can either court third partys in the hope that they can turn the situation around, or they can give up and just let the Wii U become another Gamecube (a secondary system owned almost exclusively to play Nintendo games).
 
Personally I'd prefer they try the former.
 
 

I'm not suggesting Nintendo try to do this entirely with their own internal studios. More projects along the lines of Bayonetta 2 or Wonderful 101, or Excitebots or Punch-Out or whatever, where they partner with an outside studio to make a game, would be a part of something like this.

I'm just saying that since there doesn't seem to be anything Nintendo can do to win over third parties and have them voluntarily support the platform, they should concentrate their efforts elsewhere.

Oh I see now. Yeah that could be doable. I thought Nintendo alone which is literally impossible with how their games work. S far we have Beyonetta, W101, Fire Emblem Cross Over, and Smash Bros. I expect a lot more of these collaborations that free up their internal developers time throughout the generation. I just hope the majority of them are 3rd party IPs or brand new ones in general.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.

 
Nintendo should definitely put it's own weight behind the Wii U, but to disregard the appeal that third party software holds would be risky. Quite frankly, there are genres and games with content and themes that Nintendo wouldn't touch with a 10 foot grapple beam. There are also games that Nintendo are simply not capable of making. Nintendo cannot be all things to all people, and it is in the spaces that Nintendo don't operate that third party's have traditionally found success on Nintendo platforms, providing the types of games that Nintendo can't or won't publish.
 
My worry is this. If Nintendo is not receiving third party support at a point when their system's technical aspects are comprobable to their competitors (ports being made that much easier), then what hope do they have come next year when Orbis and Durango have lept over the Wii U? Based on history I would have to suggest that the Wii U is likely to be another Wii (at least in terms of third party support). It is this worry that has urged me not to buy a Wii U yet. I had fun with my wii, but was continually frustrated by the huge gaps in the release schedule.
 
When I was younger I could play a game for months and therefore the gaps did not bother me so much. I'm at a stage now, however, where I can afford more games, I'm open to playing a broader spectrum of games, and I want a system that can support that diet. If the Wii U continues on it's current trajectory it's likely to be another Wii, and honestly? As much as I love 10 or so games on that system, I'm not buying another Wii.
 
What I'm saying is, Nintendo could throw as much weight behind their system as possible, releasing more games per year than ever before, and the Wii U would still not have a software library that could objectively be considered inclusive. So Nintendo can either court third partys in the hope that they can turn the situation around, or they can give up and just let the Wii U become another Gamecube (a secondary system owned almost exclusively to play Nintendo games).
 
Personally I'd prefer they try the former.
 
 

I'm not suggesting Nintendo try to do this entirely with their own internal studios. More projects along the lines of Bayonetta 2 or Wonderful 101, or Excitebots or Punch-Out or whatever, where they partner with an outside studio to make a game, would be a part of something like this.

I'm just saying that since there doesn't seem to be anything Nintendo can do to win over third parties and have them voluntarily support the platform, they should concentrate their efforts elsewhere.

I had a very well thought out , eloquent, and resonably robust (i.e. long) response in which I discussed several interesting things and tried to find a middle ground. Unfortuantely I tried to delete a coma and backed out of the page.
 
 
 
**** that's annoying!
 
You'll just have to take my word for it, because I'm not re-typing it all again. So pissed off right now, lol.

[UncleBob]

Unfortuantely I tried to delete a coma and backed out of the page.

http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/751749

[Caterkiller]

Now that's good to know! Pixies jump on it if there is still time. I'm ready for some reading.

[azeke]

I had a very well thought out , eloquent, and resonably robust (i.e. long) response in which I discussed several interesting things and tried to find a middle ground. Unfortuantely I tried to delete a coma and backed out of the page.

Good browsers (read: not Firefox or IE) save post content within the history. Out of the box. When i do that, i just go forward and it's still there. Too bad Opera is going bankrupt or something

To make it not completely offtopic, i had a similar experience with Assasin Creed 2 saves today -- Uplay erased them entirely. I spent an hour looking for save on the internet that i can use to continue my game.

What did i do Ubisoft for you to punish me so lately...

[smallsharkbigbite]

Nintendo needs to make more games.  What I disagree with is that Nintendo is trying to cater to third parties.  They have loosened some of their restrictions, but I don't see how they are incentivizing 3rd parties to make Wii U games. 


This has always been the issue as Sony and Microsoft work with developers and incentivize them to produce games for their systems.  Nintendo never has.  The poor economy has led to fewer risks in the industry, these developers aren't going to go out of their way to support Nintendo until it is proven profitable.  Wii U Sales have tapered off quite a bit from the holidays and it is hard to make money on anything but a budget game with an install base of 4 million.


Not that I expect Nintendo to care or to do anything different.  The gamecube made a profit and I'm sure Nintendo will make the Wii U profitable.  It just may be the "gamecube" of this generation but it will be profitable.   

[VariantX7]

You would have think Nintendo would have learned by now how well western 3rd party promises turn out with the bail out they did on the 3DS launch. And it took Nintendo making some aggressive moves to save it.  They have other options available to them, including fostering an environment where smaller-medium budget games can survive, bringing in more stuff to the west from JPN, locking down the indie market on consoles, bringing their antiquated user account system into the 21st century, expanding and creating new studios in the west to create content more geared toward western tastes, allowing NoA and NoE to have more authority  when it comes to publishing and marketing over their perspective markets (im assuming they had little to no authority because no one in the west, in their right mind, would have ever called it Wii U over Wii 2 or even Super Wii lol). They should be as ruthless with their console markets as they are in the handheld space.

[TJ Spyke]

Really? Still bitching about the name of the system? There is nothing wrong the name "Wii U".

[Kytim89]

Nintendo will have no issue capturing Japanese third party support for both the Wii U and 3DS, it is the western third parties that they need to mend fences with at the moment. This is where we stand in the grand scheme of things, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow: Mirror of Fate is being developed by a western studio, Mercury Steam, only because its Japanese publisher, Konami, dictates to them where they make their games. Why can't this happen on the Wii U?


Keep in mind that there are many strategic developers that Nintendo will need to buddy up with in order for the Wii U to have their games. The best example of this is Take Two and Rockstar. Nintendo HAS to Grand Theft Auto V on the Wii U. It would send a precedent through the industry that Nintendo is serious about getting support for the Wii U. They need to do similar things with Epic, EA, and Bethesda. 

[red14]

The delay of Rayman Legends made me decide to get a $99 Xbox 360 for my birthday instead of a $300 Wii U with which I would have no games for.


My birthday's actually the day of Sony's big announcement coming up.

[lolmonade]

The delay of Rayman Legends made me decide to get a $99 Xbox 360 for my birthday instead of a $300 Wii U with which I would have no games for.


My birthday's actually the day of Sony's big announcement coming up.

Out of curiosity, any reason you opted for the subsidized Xbox 360 with the Xbox Live plan instead of buying it outright at $300 if you were willing to drop that amount of money on the Wii U anyway?

[pokepal148]

id say lock down indies and let the third parties rot for all we care
eas not bringing madden to the wii u
gee you honestly thought we'd buy a vita port for 2013

and dont build a monthly release schedule on one game that will just get delayed to September and NOT have a plan B

[pokepal148]

The best example of this is Take Two and Rockstar. Nintendo HAS to Grand Theft Auto V on the Wii U.

How do you Grand Theft Auto V?

[UncleBob]

Park five really nice cars outside my house and I'll show you.

[lolmonade]

Out of curiosity, can anyone provide details on how much effort Nintendo courting 3rd party developers has actually detracted from them producing their first party titles?

I sincerely don't know, but if it hasn't really impacted their ability to output their own games, what does it hurt for them to seek out 3rd party support for the console?  I know they were mostly ports, but the Wii U's launch would have been a drought if not for the 3rd party support it did receive.  If Rayman Legends for Wii U hadn't been delayed, but still had an announced Xbox 360/PS3 port scheduled for Fall, would it still be considered backstabbing?

And what about Bayonetta 2?  While they certainly may not have great luck courting EA, Activision, or other huge publishers, certainly the smaller devs would be worth seeking.

[pokepal148]

Out of curiosity, can anyone provide details on how much effort Nintendo courting 3rd party developers has actually detracted from them producing their first party titles?

I sincerely don't know, but if it hasn't really impacted their ability to output their own games, what does it hurt for them to seek out 3rd party support for the console?  I know they were mostly ports, but the Wii U's launch would have been a drought if not for the 3rd party support it did receive.  If Rayman Legends for Wii U hadn't been delayed, but still had an announced Xbox 360/PS3 port scheduled for Fall, would it still be considered backstabbing?

And what about Bayonetta 2?  While they certainly may not have great luck courting EA, Activision, or other huge publishers, certainly the smaller devs would be worth seeking.

its more visibly hurt their release schedule
whats coming-out this month....
NOTHING

[pokepal148]

Park five really nice cars outside my house and I'll show you.

can they have proximity mines inside?

[lolmonade]

Out of curiosity, can anyone provide details on how much effort Nintendo courting 3rd party developers has actually detracted from them producing their first party titles?

I sincerely don't know, but if it hasn't really impacted their ability to output their own games, what does it hurt for them to seek out 3rd party support for the console?  I know they were mostly ports, but the Wii U's launch would have been a drought if not for the 3rd party support it did receive.  If Rayman Legends for Wii U hadn't been delayed, but still had an announced Xbox 360/PS3 port scheduled for Fall, would it still be considered backstabbing?

And what about Bayonetta 2?  While they certainly may not have great luck courting EA, Activision, or other huge publishers, certainly the smaller devs would be worth seeking.

its more visibly hurt their release schedule
whats coming-out this month....
NOTHING

I understand, and I agree that it's ridiculous they aren't releasing the basically completed Wii U version just so they release all versions of Rayman at the same time, but my theoretical specifically suggested that if they didn't delay the Wii U game.