Topic: PSP vs DS

[foolish03]

All im saying is if im going to spend well over 200 bucks for something like that its going to be a full fledged gaming console.  Not a watered down ps2.  Some could say the ds is a watered down n64, when in all actuality it is a major upgrade from the n64(not including the smaller screen).

[MysticGohan24]

hehe, still this ole gag? eh, I'll bite

To me Sony won't be the dominate force this time around, everything they have going could back fire on them.
Despite the price being surprisingly $180, still Sony will be losing quite abit, much like in the way M$ did on Xbox.

Even though it's to gain market share, Sony has to overcome it's flaws, ie. Battery life. Not to mention the extras that will be
needed to toll around. Mem cards, UMD only movies etc. That may end up killing it then helping it.

I see no point in what use a remote would be.

In the end it's the games that'll make the system, I see the psp as port city ready to happen, and who's gonna wanna fork $40 or more
for that? The mindles drones.

But me? I'm on my way to Dual Screen   Heaven  

[KDR_11k]

The PSP isn't a watered down PS2, it's an improved PS2 with smaller media (so it's a bit like the Gamecube just portable)

[MysticGohan24]

heh, more like a slightly weaker PS2 with more Ram

[couchmonkey]

Personally, I think this spells T-R-O-U-B-L-E for Nintendo.  For weeks we've been harping on battery life and pricing.  Now?  The price is only going to be maybe $50 or so higher than the DS, and battery life is supposedly about 4-6 hours.

On the price, it looks like Sony is serious.   I've been saying that Sony wouldn't be stupid enough to charge over $300 for the system, and guess what?  They weren't.  This is PS2 and GameCube all over again: the price difference is so little nobody will care, especially since the PSP is clearly much more powerful than the DS.

On battery life, 4-6 hours is not great, and Sony seems to be skewing the numbers a little bit.  However, buy one extra battery and suddenly you the same or better battery life than the DS.  That's all it takes, and unlike the Game Gear, you're not burning through $10 worth of AAs, since the batteries are rechargable.  Sony could possibly release more powerful batteries in the future, too.  I don't think this is going to be a big deal to most consumers unless Sony is flat-out lying.

Too me, Sony has practically destroyed all of DS's tangible advantages, and Sony still has the huge tangible advantage of more powerful technology.  Now DS has to stand on innovation and games.  You can't put innovation in a bullet point, consumers don't seem to care that much about innovation, and most of all, Nintendo hasn't even shown us that much innovation in the titles it's selling at launch.

I have to say well done to Sony.  This is exactly what the PSP needed, and in my opinion, Nintendo will now have to fight tooth-and-nail to maintain first place in the portable market.  I will not be surprised if Sony takes over most of the portable market in the next 3-5 years.

I'm still planning to buy a DS, and I still think it will have better games than the PSP.  Now Nintendo needs to convince everyone else that's true.

[Ian Sane]

"Nintendo hasn't even shown us that much innovation in the titles it's selling at launch."

I think that's the most important flaw with the DS right now.  All these promises of innovation and all Nintendo gives us is a remake.  Regardless of how good Super Mario 64 DS may turn out and how cool the new features may be it's still a re-release, which is the least innovative thing a developer can do.  The innovative features of the DS are functionally useless without games that make full use of it.  That was the problem with connectivity.  It took Nintendo over two years to deliver something that truly made good use of that feature.  Meanwhile the online features of the Xbox were in full use a year after launch and DVD playback on the PS2 was useful since day one.  In the longrun I think innovative game design is better than MP3 playback but MP3 playback will be fully functional from day one and instant gratification is what the general public looks for.  Nintendo can't expect people to wait for their unique features to be implemented.  The PSP is offering its features from day one.

[Spak-Spang]

Hmmm,

This is an interesting interesting situation.

Most people believe that in the US the PSP will hit answer between Febuary to late March.  This gives Nintendo DS a 3-4 month headstart and a launch during the busiest shopping season.  With the number of presales for the DS, and the future of Pokemon on that system in Japan the DS is going to be ok.  Nintendo is going to be fine.

In America during shopping season nobody cares about when something else is going to be out, all they care about is what is out now.  Therefore I see strong sales for the DS this holiday season and beyond.  

My question is really about next year.  Sony is obviously taking a profit hit, and its going to be a pretty big risk.  Here is why.  Say conservatively Sony is only losing 25 dollars per unit.  If they sell a million units that is 25 million dollars lost.  They are going to have to make that up in sales of games, movies, and music for the PSP.  Its pretty fair to say that unless Sony plans on releasing PS3 next year (which I think the date is actually for 2006) then their main focus will be on the new system.  Very smart.  

There is just one problem.  Microsoft.  If the Xbox2 is released next year, Sony is going to be losing market share to the new system, unless they launch at the same time.  Sony's PS3 is going to be a huge risk with the expense and technology they are using, and in America Sony's name isn't nearly as dominate with the Xbox out there.  

Basically, Sony could be shooting itself in the foot with these big products and losses.  The competition could eat them alive, and even if they maintain marketshare, their loses will not reflect well on the company.

Nintendo however is releasing the system at a profit most likely.  Every unit they sell adds to their warchest.  Every game sold adds to the warchest.  Every delvelopment fee to 3rd parties adds to Nintendo's funds.  So if the project fails or isn't as successful as Nintendo hopes, it still would not have lost much, if anything at all.  

Nintendo will basically have 3 systems out for developers to use:
GBA:  developers wanting to create a game on the cheap will use this system.
NDS: Developers wanting to create unique titles or a different handheld market will go here.
Cube:  The homesystem market.  

The development for the GBA is going to die.  Perhaps it will be a slow death, but it is still going to die, and really Nintendo doesn't care.  It has already made its profit off the system, and the system is already pushed to its limit.

Nintendo DS is the new Gameboy Advance, just as the SP was.  This new system will be around for probably 2-3 years and then Nintendo will release the real Gameboy successor.

The key is no matter what Nintendo is making money...and the same isn't true with Sony.

In fact, next generation I see Microsoft gaining the most marketshare, followed by Sony, and Nintendo with a last place, but in stronger positions then it was with the Cube, and perhaps tied with Sony.  The difference is Nintendo will be making a profit, Sony won't be, and Microsoft may not be either.

[couchmonkey]

The problem is, Nintendo can't keep making money if it keeps getting marginalized by the competition.  I think Nintendo will probably be fine and the DS will do pretty well. Sony taking the handheld market is a worst-case scenario, I think the most likely scenario is that Sony and Nintendo will split it almost evenly.  But Nintendo stands to lose a lot of the market if it screws up.

[Truthliesn1seyes]

Everyone has to realize that the supposed battery life is having almost every feature turned off or minimized.  Light as dim as possible, wifi off, headphones being used, all this has to be met to reach the "4-6" hours they are claiming.  

Yes the system has a cheap base price but thats not all that people will be buying.  To get anything out of your PSP, you will need to buy the PSP, a memory stick, and a game, that should break well into the 250 dollar range.  Throw in the optional headset, carrying case and extra battery pack and your breaking into 300 plus range.  The 185 price tag will look pretty up in the stores but once someone goes to actually buy it, they'll start to add up the costs of everything else they need, and that my freind will put a huge damper on their party.  

Remember people, portable gaming is about ease of play, pick up and go gameplay.  How enjoyable is a PSP going to be when you have to remember to charge the battery before you go to ensure it doesn't die out half way, remember to bring your memory card so you can actually play the game and be sure to be extra gentle with it so as to not create any scratches on its big lovely screen.  Looks to me like the PSP is in more need of a planner and touch screen to keep everyone on check on everything they will need to do and bring in order to enjoy their system.  They should release the PSP with a duffle bag or something to help carry all this stuff cuase no one is about to have games, the PSP, an extra battery and a memory stick poking out their jeans along with their keys , wallet and whatever else.

As for the graphics, 3d should stay in the home business, I like my portable gaming to stay 2d.  The portable industry is an escape to more old school gaming.  Its our only source for those type of games and if portable gaming were to make the transition to full 3d then goodbye to 2d sidescrollers and shooters, old school rpgs too.  I don't want to see that happen.  As for the jaggies that everyone is complaining about, don't stress it, it wont be so obvious on such a small screen.  

[Nile Boogie]

Its all about marketing. Sony can sell "Snowblowers in Cuba"  due to the way it markets its name. The mob is fickle and the blind is moved by the drum. If Nintendo uses its newfound partnership with Ecko, MTV(The devil's child) and Maxim to the fullest extent then yeah they should be pretty alright.  The problem I do see is the lack inovation by Nintendo themselves. They may be playing the wait till Sony shows their big gun. I hope that's what it is cuz truth be told it looks a lil bit darker now for the Ds than it did yesterday.

All the goes out the window if Nintendo and Warp Pipe brings Poke'mon Online to the Ds with a real life league. Nothing in the entire evil empire of Sony can combat the force of Poke'mon online. NOTHING I SAY. And I have never played the game a day in my life and I know that. That is unless the make a GTA: Earth...  

[MysticGohan24]

Sony couldn't sell squat in Antartica Sometimes I think sony's over confindence may be their downfall.
I hear alot of developers are not pleased with the PS3 in terms of ease in development and programming for.
Which in turn makes it worse than the PS2 to work on.

[Draygaia]

You know I wish Nintendo can always do more to the DS.  I kind of feel that, "theres always GBE".

[MaleficentOgre]

That's nintendo's biggest problem right there. People are thinking the new gameboy is coming real quick.  While I'm convinced the new gb is already close to final I think its only an insurance policy for the DS.  Nintendo needs to say, the new gameboy is years i reapeat YEARS down the road.  The DS is here to stay.  I am pleasently surprised at the popularity of DS though.  seeing as how every last journalist on the face of the planet said that PSP is the second coming and the DS is crap after E3 even without the PSP being playable.  I would think that the idiots in the gaming world would see graphics and go, better graphics must be better games.  All nintendo really needs now is a PSP crusher to come out around a month to a few weeks before the PSP launches in the states.  

[VideoGamerJ]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
For me the decision isn't DS or PSP, it's PSP or PS2. But then I'm not an average casual gamer.

I have doubts about Sony's data. It doesn't add up. At first they claim a price close to 500$, now they're down to 190$, prices don't come down like that, they must take heavy losses there. Since unlike Microsoft Sony isn't profitable and actually NEEDS the profits of their game division this would mean they're screwed. They wouldn't do that.
I'm thinking it's a lie. Sony sees they cannot take down the DS in a fair match and decides to use the same strategy they used on the Dreamcast: Pretend their "super powerful" system is just around the corner and hope this prevents people from buying the DS. I'm expecting the PSP to come out a year later after dozens of delays and at a price of 300$.

If that happens, Nintendo is in serious luck. That would be very awesome.

As for the DS, if it shows it's abilities before PSP does, the developers will flock to it, afterall, it's a lot easier to develop for that type of system because it can be 2D, where as Sony said something about not making 2D games anymore (if anyone remembers). Honestly, I say that going online is extremely critical for Nintendo and whether or not they realize it, they MUST do it. Online gaming out of the box will truely amaze the mainstream market. If PSP is proprietary media, their interesting features have a downfall. Also mentioned, the more stuff that you have to carry, the worse it becomes. DS has a stylus holder and the thumbstrap attaches. That's it (unless you have games). The PSP has got a bunch of stuff which doesn't sound too thrilling.

Nintendo DS' advantages at this point

-Easy, efficient and affordable development (not as good as GBA, but still)
-Jump start the American Market and Japanese Market (USA being far ahead of SONY).
-Many 1st party games in development.
-Possible introduction to a lot of advertising (they are spending the most in adver. in their history if I'm correct)
-Wireless gaming and the concept of going places, downloading games and sharing games
-Obvious built-in features

PSP's advantages

-Shocking price
-Playstation name
-Graphics

Of course there is other various things, but this is what comes to my mind.

PSP advantages

[Quigoni]

I think people are also forgetting that when it comes to the 2 companies, Sony has been known for HORRIBLE Customer Service.  Whereas Nintendo handles things real well.

If something breaks I also look at if I have to deal with people on the phone and what the deal will be.  


-Quigoni

[KDR_11k]

Gamespy claims some japanese connection of theirs claims Sony is losing 350$ per unit. If so they're never, ever going to make a profit off that thing unless theydemand like 30-40$ license fees per game sold. Considering that the games division is what's keeping Sony alive, this might be their swansong.

[Spak-Spang]

KDR:  I don't believe those numbers.  That just seems absurd.  I couldn't even see Sony losing up to $100 per unit.  They would be killing themselves.

Unless, they know prices are going to be dropping soon and then they are just launching early to make sure Nintendo DS has competition.  Then in a few months when prices come down they will be in better shape.  

If this is what Sony is doing, don't expect the US launch until those prices drop, because it will kill them otherwise.  

I still say this information isn't correct.  My idea would only work with about a 100 dollar loss, because prices don't drop enough to make up a 300 dollar lose.

Those numbers don't add up.

Of course alot of this anouncement with the PSP doesn't add up.  It could simply be we all over estimated how much the PSP product would cost and Sony made some great deals to get lower prices.

 

[vudu]

KDR:  link?

Edit:  Nevermind.  I spend two minutes and hopped on over to GameSpy and found it myself.  Here it is for anyone who feels like reading it.  Sony PSP Editor Reax!

The part about losing $350/unit is at the bottom of page two.

Quote
A friend in Japan suggests that Sony will be losing over $350 per unit manufactured, and looking at how advanced the tech is I wouldn't be surprised.

[Bill Aurion]

"I couldn't even see Sony losing up to $100 per unit. They would be killing themselves."

I believe Sony's president was quoted at saying that the PSP would cost "around" 350 dollars to produce...

[KDR_11k]

That's still 150$, enough for billions in losses. If they sell even close to the numbers of the PS2 that's already a lot of losses, add the low tie-in ratio for portables and you got a nightmare to explain to the shareholders.

[Spak-Spang]

That quote is also pretty old.

Prices change, and companies can make deals with manufactures to get prices even lower.

I can't believe the price the PSP is being marketed at, but I do know that Sony must have pulled something off to be able to get such a low price.

As mentioned before, if the price is really that low and it costing them 100-150 dollars to sell each system, they would be 150 million dollars in debt if they sold 1 million in Japan.  that is a huge loss for the company.  A loss that can't be made up easily in software.  

[Zach]

One thing that no one has seemed to mention about the PSP is the durability (I think the screen has been mentioned once or twice).  Not only will the screen be exposed to the elements, the PSP has moving parts, I would think that means more things that could potentially break (I am not sure about this though).  Of course no casual buyer will think about this when they pick up the DS and the PSP.  anyway I am routing for Ninty, but Sony seems to wanna put up a good fight.

As they say;  Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[Truthliesn1seyes]

People, remember the 185 is not including a memory stick and a game.  Without either of those two additions you can't use the psp.  Since whoever buys a psp will no doubt have to get themselves a memory stick and a game, assume that the spending price for the psp inittially will be 250 not including tax.  Once everyone starts to have their psp die out within that day, they are going to want to buy the extra battery pack.  Then when they mess up and drop their psp, they'll want the carrying case.  250 to 300 dollars is what any serious consumer should be expecting to pay when they get their psp.  

The ds is 150 with a demo included and no memory stick or extra battery packs needed.  A carrying case would be nice to get but it aint as serious an issue as it is with the psp.  

I doubt the psp will sell well in the long run given how much money has to be spent to get some enjoyment out of it.  Prospective buyers will see that 250 in their hands and start to wonder why they dont just go and get a gamecube with a handfull of games or an xbox with halo 2.

Has everyone read the article in gamespot with Ken whatever his name is from Sony.  He states that the battery life is dependent on the software.  So puzzle games will drain less battery power than ridge racer.  He also states that wifi being on affects battery life.  Its already been stated that the alledged battery life of 4-6 is having wifi off, light dimmed as much as possible and using headphones.  Imagine when a Final Fantasy game comes out sucking up energy with all its cinematics and graphics.  Your in the middle of some long Cinema or a summon spell and your battery starts to die, so you hurry to get out that fight so you can run over to a save spot just to end up getting caught into another random fight and halfway through that your battery died.  In the end your'll left frustrated given you lost your save and waiting on your charger to charge your psp so you can pick up where you left off.

 

[Nile Boogie]

Listen here folks. I love Nintendo but anyone who thinks the PsP isn't going to sell is living a warp pipe dream.  It doesn't matter how much it cost or the extras needed, its going to sell. If it takes a large chunk of the market from nintendo is a different story. They're both cool and for 350 I can get both, the price of an iPod the I'm all over it.  

[ruby_onix]

Quote
I believe Sony's president was quoted at saying that the PSP would cost "around" 350 dollars to produce...

Link

Back in January..

Quote
Deering characterized the system's likely price as "closer to 200 pounds than 300 pounds." In American currency, that's towards the low end of a $300-450 range.

At just about the time of this report, Sony of Japan announced that they were going to quadruple the amount of RAM they were putting into the PSP. It's not known if Chis Deering was even aware of that yet. And who knows what other changes they may have made to the system since Janauary (since apparently they didn't even have a final working prototype at E3).

Either way, losing $100 on hardware used to be considered "massive".

Here's a thought. How many people are going to hold off on the PSP or the DS until their system of choice has a price cut or two? Now what if the PSP never has a price cut?