Topic: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.

[Phil]

[Shorty McNostril]

Please understand?

[Khushrenada]

How do you get the no E3 part? He just says delayed in the video but doesn't say there will be no footage shown at E3.

[Phil]

Added that forgotten bit in.

[Evan_B]

After making a somewhat rational post about this in the news thread, I feel it's time to express myself more clearly.

Nintendo. What. Are. You. Doing.

You clearly have your sights set on becoming a larger company, there's no doubt about that. However, that means NOTHING to me as a fan of video games and if anything, it shows no dedication from you. Hell, the Wii U in itself shows no dedication or understanding of the current industry, in my opinion. I wasn't too keen on this game releasing in 2015 simply because of- well, I don't know, how about the last two Zelda titles- but DAMN IT, why the hell would you show a game this early and then leave people in the dark for a whole damn year? Because I'm not fucking stupid, I know that you're going to wait until E3 2016 to show this game off. But that means the entire year has essentially been ruined. Mario Maker is a novel idea but if I wanted competent Mario levels I wouldn't trust the Wii U player-base to create them. Splatoon is a weird anomaly that will die because it's an online game on Wii U. XCX is all great and good, but this will be the third time we've heard about it at E3?

I have told many people that, despite owning a Wii U since Christmas 2012, I cannot recommend the system in good faith until the end of 2015, when many titles like those mentioned above were already on the system. And yes, Zelda was a huge part of that statement. The library sucks, you have done NOTHING to make the situation better, instead churning out half-baked titles at a lower price point as some sort of apology for the lack of third party support when they feel lazier than those games in particular.

Until you convince me that you're actually putting effort into providing games of quality out of the gate, I refuse to buy another console from you.

[Soren]

Are people really going to lose their **** over the most obvious news of the year?  This game was never going to be released this year. C'mon.

Star Fox and Animal Crossing Wii U for Holiday 2015. Steady yer mammaries everyone.

I have told many people that, despite owning a Wii U since Christmas 2012, I cannot recommend the system in good faith until the end of 2015, when many titles like those mentioned above were already on the system.

The Wii U is already worth buying now.

[NWR_insanolord]

Anyone who thought this game was actually going to come out this year was crazy, but the lack of an E3 showing is surprising. Gotta wonder about the exact reasoning behind that decision.

[Soren]

Anyone who thought this game was actually going to come out this year was crazy, but the lack of an E3 showing is surprising. Gotta wonder about the exact reasoning behind that decision.

Aside from Animal Crossing, Nintendo has no more top selling bullets left in the holster. If ZeldaU wasn't coming out this holiday season, it's getting delayed till the following Holiday season. The game doesn't need 2 E3 cycles.

[NWR_insanolord]

When's the last time a console Zelda didn't take (at least) 2 E3 cycles? They can't get these out on time if their life depended on it.

[Soren]

When's the last time a console Zelda didn't take (at least) 2 E3 cycles? They can't get these out on time if their life depended on it.

I'd rather Nintendo's 2015 E3 presentation focus on games that are coming out this year.

[BranDonk Kong]

Whatever.

[pokepal148]

When's the last time a console Zelda didn't take (at least) 2 E3 cycles? They can't get these out on time if their life depended on it.

And what's stopping them from throwing together a quick fizzle trailer?

[Evan_B]

Are people really going to lose their **** over the most obvious news of the year?  This game was never going to be released this year. C'mon.

Star Fox and Animal Crossing Wii U for Holiday 2015. Steady yer mammaries everyone.

I have told many people that, despite owning a Wii U since Christmas 2012, I cannot recommend the system in good faith until the end of 2015, when many titles like those mentioned above were already on the system.

The Wii U is already worth buying now.

This is so untrue it's not even a joke.

And dammit if Animal Crossing is Nintendo's replacement for a decent core title this year I am disappointed. I would like AT LEAST two non-casually-oriented titles from them this year but that's asking too much of a company that said "we want to satisfy current Wii U owners" rather than giving us bullshit life-sims.

[Soren]

This is so untrue it's not even a joke.

And dammit if Animal Crossing is Nintendo's replacement for a decent core title this year I am disappointed. I would like AT LEAST two non-casually-oriented titles from them this year but that's asking too much of a company that said "we want to satisfy current Wii U owners" rather than giving us bullshit life-sims.

Xenoblade Chronicles X?
Devil's Third?
Star Fox?

[broodwars]

Hey, remember the last time Nintendo's big console Christmas release was mostly an Animal Crossing game?



That certainly turned out well, didn't it?

[ThePerm]

If Nintendo can't release games on a regular basis they should start outsourcing thier games out. The greater of the two evils of worrying about if other people are competent enough to make Nintendo's games or there not being games is the latter.

[Ymeegod]

Called it from day 1 .  I think it would have been more shocking "news" if it was released on time.

Still that's going leave a HUGE gap to fill at e3 and I doubt third parties are lining up to play that role.  Retro Studios is about the only thing that can save E3 for Nintendo this year.

[Soren]

[ShyGuy]

When Sony delayed Uncharted 4, Nintendo couldn't just stand by and let it go unanswered!

INB4 Microsoft delays Halo 5.

[Evan_B]

XCX is the only Nintendo IP that constitutes as a core game. Devil's Third is exciting but it's "second party" and not-recognizable, not to mention multiplayer focused so it's dead on arrival.

I'm going to come out and say it right now for all the people who know it's true. Starfox was never good and will likely be either episodic or another 40 dollar game.

The fact is, Nintendo makes high-quality titles, and many other developers make decent ones. Is it wrong to want a core-focused, mature idea from them? They seem more focused on attracting a casual audience nowadays and that's disappointing. But instead of trying to muster some variety in their IP, they fall back on the same easy and tired concepts. I'm glad we're getting a game like Devil's Third but that doesn't mean it won't flop. Nintendo needs to take steps to diversify their offerings.

[ThePerm]

its not that people are surprised its people are dismayed it is still happening and they haven't learned their lesson or improved thier pipeline.

[NWR_insanolord]

They have, and that's why even without Zelda there are several games already lined up and likely one or two more announced at E3. Most likely because they knew from the beginning that Zelda wasn't going to hit that mark.

[Soren]

Besides Pikmin 3 and Tropical Freeze, what other Nintendo published Wii U game has been significantly delayed?

[Phil]

Are people really going to lose their **** over the most obvious news of the year?  This game was never going to be released this year. C'mon.

Star Fox and Animal Crossing Wii U for Holiday 2015. Steady yer mammaries everyone.

I have told many people that, despite owning a Wii U since Christmas 2012, I cannot recommend the system in good faith until the end of 2015, when many titles like those mentioned above were already on the system.

The Wii U is already worth buying now.

This is so untrue it's not even a joke.

And dammit if Animal Crossing is Nintendo's replacement for a decent core title this year I am disappointed. I would like AT LEAST two non-casually-oriented titles from them this year but that's asking too much of a company that said "we want to satisfy current Wii U owners" rather than giving us bullshit life-sims.

Can't beat that argument. lol

Yes, the Wii U has more than enough games to make it worth a purchase, and the majority of them are of the utmost quality. You seem very angry, which seems to be blinding you, imo.

[Shaymin]

Besides Pikmin 3 and Tropical Freeze, what other Nintendo published Wii U game has been significantly delayed?

Tropical Freeze wasn't a "We need more time" delay, it was a "Oh crap, we've got nothing until May" delay.

[broodwars]

Besides Pikmin 3 and Tropical Freeze, what other Nintendo published Wii U game has been significantly delayed?

I'd add Bayonetta 2 to that list.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

All Wii U games were significantly delayed by about five years when the stupid thing should have launched in the first place.

[MagicCow64]

I said in the news thread that I had been 50:50 on it coming out this year or not. They were certainly confident enough about it to show that game award demo. I thought that if it was getting delayed, that news would come as a **** cherry on top of an impressive E3 showing. The WiiU being what it is, it's hard to fathom the logic of this announcement coming now without the NX's hardware/input system playing a role; in a cynical business sense, why not let people keep buying the console for a few more months instead of stoking doubt now about its platform status given the Twilight Princess history?

[Nile Boogie Returns]

Trying to find the proper words. I hate this bullshit! Why? Well not 90 days ago the reconfirmed the release date for 2015 at The Game Awards. Maybe I should be smarter than this, but I'm not. This disappoints me greatly. I'm sure they have something in store to supplement and it better not be XCX, MARIO MAKER OR STARFOX. I know what game better be at E3 this year but who am I kidding, it won't. Iamsad. I don't want some HD remaster of another game either (Unless its Shenmue) I WANT ZELDA!!!


Honestly, I'm one of the more Pro-Nintendo people you'd ever wanna meet but this just may do it. Not abandoning them but like in Smash it might be time for a new main.




This has NX launch title written all over it. Also whatever be gaming news that was scheduled for next week better really be the cats meow!





WHAT KIND OF FUCKERY!

[Luigi Dude]

I'm glad the game was delayed because it means Nintendo can actually deliver on creating a truly open world Zelda.  Seriously, the last 3D traditional Zelda game took Nintendo 5 years to make on an SD system like the Wii, and now suddenly people where expecting them to make a gigantic open world game in HD, something this team has never even done in only 4 year?

Yeah Skyward Sword took 5 years because they basically rebooted the whole thing in 2008 to take full advantage of Motion + controls but even if the new game hasn't had any similar reboots, the huge world was still going to take more time then any Zelda before it.  Anyone that wants this world to actually be filled with meaningful content should also be quite happy as well.

People that are actually angry by this can **** off since I don't want another Wind Waker that was clearly rushed just to make a holiday release and ended up being blatantly and offensively incomplete.  I don't give a **** how much nostalgia has blinded some, Wind Waker never lived up to it's full potential because of how rushed it was.  A Wind Waker with another year in development could have been a real masterpiece instead of what we got which was still a great game, but still so sad to play because it could have been so much more.

[ShyGuy]

Weren't Wario and Wii Fit U both delayed? I think Wonderful 101 was as well, but that could have just been expectations.

[Adrock]

NX launch title.

I was surprised when Nintendo insisted Zelda Wii U would be released this year. It seemed too good to release on a struggling Wii U rather than launch alongside its successor. This could be fresh start for both Nintendo and the Zelda series. Nintendo needs to knock NX out of the park and the first open world Zelda isn't a bad game to go with.

As for what replaces it in holiday 2015, I expect games based on existing engines. A substantial Super Smash Bros. DLC pack could soften the blow in addition to some other full game. Super Mario 3D World 2 would be my guess. I've mentioned this before: a brand new Zelda using Wind Waker HD's engine. Back to back years of brand new console Zelda titles may be overkill, but the difference in style could be enough to justify it.

[Evan_B]

What pisses me off about this announcement is that, if the team isn't ready to show it this year, that means They aren't confident enough in the game to even promote it in it's current stage, and that means- yup, they're actually going to wait until E3 2016 before they give us a proper look at this game. It also means they have to have some other "THAT" game for E3 THIS year, and Animal Crossing Wii U ain't gonna cut it. If they try to make it XCX they're morons, and I can't imagine it being Mario Maker.

Throughout the entire lifespan of the Wii U I've been playing the waiting game. I waited for Pikmin, I waited for Mario Kart, for Smash Bros. (And that game didn't even deliver), for XCX, and now Zelda. What annoy me is the false promise that 2015 was even in the cards. Now I have a literal handful of games for a system that doesn't even feel like Nintendo itself is supporting with any amount of effort. I've been a loyal customer for a long time and I don't feel like my purchase was worthwhile, especially if his eds up being a fucking NX dual-release. So excuse me if I sound a little angry.

[Luigi Dude]

Throughout the entire lifespan of the Wii U I've been playing the waiting game. I waited for Pikmin, I waited for Mario Kart, for Smash Bros. (And that game didn't even deliver), for XCX, and now Zelda. What annoy me is the false promise that 2015 was even in the cards. Now I have a literal handful of games for a system that doesn't even feel like Nintendo itself is supporting with any amount of effort. I've been a loyal customer for a long time and I don't feel like my purchase was worthwhile, especially if his eds up being a fucking NX dual-release. So excuse me if I sound a little angry.

Oh please, delays have been the course of Nintendo home consoles since the N64.  If you bought a Wii U you already knew what you were getting into.  Did you honestly think a company that was notorious for delaying their major home console games for almost 20 on much weaker hardware would suddenly be pumping out games at a rate never seen before on a system way more powerful?

Yeah after 20 years Nintendo should be doing a better job at being able to release a steady stream of games but when someone has been doing the same thing for so long, it's kind of expected.  Basically, if someones been a crackhead for almost 20 years, if you're going to invite them into your house, you should already know they're probably still a crackhead.  So don't be surprised if after they get into your house, they still do exactly what they've been doing for the last 20 years.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

Oh please, delays have been the course of Nintendo home consoles since the N64.  If you bought a Wii U you already knew what you were getting into.  Did you honestly think a company that was notorious for delaying their major home console games for almost 20 on much weaker hardware would suddenly be pumping out games at a rate never seen before on a system way more powerful?

Yeah after 20 years Nintendo should be doing a better job at being able to release a steady stream of games but when someone has been doing the same thing for so long, it's kind of expected.  Basically, if someones been a crackhead for almost 20 years, if you're going to invite them into your house, you should already know they're probably still a crackhead.  So don't be surprised if after they get into your house, they still do exactly what they've been doing for the last 20 years.

This is all true, but it doesn't make it right. And it doesn't make me happy. Zelda makes me happy. I thought it could have been delayed but Nintendo insisted upon itself that the title was a 2015 game. 


What this means also is that Nintendo might feel that whatever other games they have for this year will make-up for this. Whatever game is being ported from ps4/xboxone better be huge.


Also, this [size=78%]http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/23/famitsu-dswii-teasing-major-nintendo-game-announcement[/size]




I am rational and expectation is the longest word in the english language. Much like Chip Kelly, Nintendo better be right. And "that" game better be the truth!

[Nile Boogie Returns]

I also expect that mysterious Star Fox U... Coming this year my ass!

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

wow Luigi Dude what an attitude, they been making the same **** up for 20 years so get over it? IS that how you approach 3rd party support, lack of basic features that EVERY console since Dreamcast has done well, the really odd and limiting media features that feel like an after thought despite them PRAISING them as a selling point for the console. Yeah great attitude just forgive Nintendo for making another mistake because they been doing it all along.


Personally it doesn't matter to me I actually am not angry I am relieved. Because it means they *are* moving on from Wii U and dropping the dead console to focus on bringing out NX with the strongest line up they can muster. If that means dropping all Wii U support and pulling a Saturn FINE, because nobody is going to complain. Seriously the early adopters that might complain are the ones who are addicted to Nintendo, everyone else who either held off, or is holding off, will be HAPPY with a replacement. Looking at sales numbers I think it is clear there are MORE people not interested in Wii U than those who would be happy to see it get a full five years, which it will not get.

[alegoicoe]

The funny things is that i was a having a discussion with a friend about Nintendo delaying Zelda and just two hours later i check the news and boom. I was really looking forward to playing Zelda this year but lets be realistic there is no way in hell that Nintendo was going to have that title ready this year. I hope they have something other than Starfox and Mario maker for this year if not well damn another bleak year for Wii U, at least its to be expected

[Evan_B]

Throughout the entire lifespan of the Wii U I've been playing the waiting game. I waited for Pikmin, I waited for Mario Kart, for Smash Bros. (And that game didn't even deliver), for XCX, and now Zelda. What annoy me is the false promise that 2015 was even in the cards. Now I have a literal handful of games for a system that doesn't even feel like Nintendo itself is supporting with any amount of effort. I've been a loyal customer for a long time and I don't feel like my purchase was worthwhile, especially if his eds up being a fucking NX dual-release. So excuse me if I sound a little angry.

Oh please, delays have been the course of Nintendo home consoles since the N64.  If you bought a Wii U you already knew what you were getting into.  Did you honestly think a company that was notorious for delaying their major home console games for almost 20 on much weaker hardware would suddenly be pumping out games at a rate never seen before on a system way more powerful?

Yeah after 20 years Nintendo should be doing a better job at being able to release a steady stream of games but when someone has been doing the same thing for so long, it's kind of expected.  Basically, if someones been a crackhead for almost 20 years, if you're going to invite them into your house, you should already know they're probably still a crackhead.  So don't be surprised if after they get into your house, they still do exactly what they've been doing for the last 20 years.

Gosh, I... I guess you're right. I guess I should just... accept their garbage development cycles, shouldn't I? Then I'll be a much happier person.

[broodwars]

Can we at least agree that it's unacceptable if Nintendo still doesn't have their **** together by the time the NX comes out? The online infrastructure alliance with DeNA should help a lot with that, but Nintendo seriously needs to expand their development studios so they can produce more and better games (especially if the NX turns out to not be a combination handheld/console). This delay is just further evidence that Nintendo can't support their own platforms on their own with the current state of their studios. They need to start up new studios, including more in the West, to shoulder the load.

[Adrock]

Can we at least agree that it's unacceptable if Nintendo still doesn't have their **** together by the time the NX comes out?

No. It's unacceptable that Nintendo doesn't have its **** together now. Look, I support this delay because at the end of the day, I want a better game. Every company drops the ball in some regard. However, the extent of Nintendo not having its **** together is flat-out fucking baffling. Simple stuff like not announcing games as early as Zelda should be second nature to the company. Console Zelda games always get delayed. I get Nintendo wanting the hype associated with a new Zelda, but announcing the game so far in advance opens Nintendo up to easily avoidable scrutiny. For a company that should be doing everything it can to rebuild its brand to consumers, this is such a colossal step backward. This may not even be just a delay; it could be a delay to a completely different platform. An already weak Wii U looks even weaker when no one would have been the wiser if Nintendo just didn't show Zelda at E3 2014 at all.

[NWR_insanolord]

E3 2014 was a desperate, last-gasp attempt to gain any kind of traction for the Wii U, where they put everything they had on the table. If they weren't in the state they were in they probably would have held Zelda back.

This is Zelda, though. They all get delayed. This was inevitable, so I'm not sure why it upsets people this much.

[Phil]

Yeah, it's weird this is creating so much anger. We saw next to nothing of the game and a very early look at The Game Awards late last year. It didn't look like the game was truly far along, so it's surprising that people are alarmed by the game being delayed.

I see it as a good thing, because as Aonuma said, they're adding a bunch of new ideas, ones that I personally think will change up the game in a big way. As long as Star Fox and Xenoblade don't get delayed to 2016, I'm still happy with what the Wii U will offer this year. Plus I bet there's some surprises for E3, whether big or small.

[broodwars]

Can we at least agree that it's unacceptable if Nintendo still doesn't have their **** together by the time the NX comes out?

No. It's unacceptable that Nintendo doesn't have its **** together now. Look, I support this delay because at the end of the day, I want a better game. Every company drops the ball in some regard. However, the extent of Nintendo not having its **** together is flat-out fucking baffling. Simple stuff like not announcing games as early as Zelda should be second nature to the company. Console Zelda games always get delayed. I get Nintendo wanting the hype associated with a new Zelda, but announcing the game so far in advance opens Nintendo up to easily avoidable scrutiny. For a company that should be doing everything it can to rebuild its brand to consumers, this is such a colossal step backward. This may not even be just a delay; it could be a delay to a completely different platform. An already weak Wii U looks even weaker when no one would have been the wiser if Nintendo just didn't show Zelda at E3 2014 at all.

Hey, I agree with you on this. I was just throwing out a middle ground there in the midst of an increasingly-salty conversation, since some people don't seem to want to consider it unacceptable how behind Nintendo has been from their competition for several generations.

[broodwars]

On a side note, this is increasingly looking to be the most important E3 we've had in years. All the companies have been holding their cards close to their chests, and while we have some suspicions we have no official word on what the **** Sony & Nintendo have planned for the Fall.  Oddly enough, the company that seems best set for the Fall is Microsoft, since Halo 5 doesn't seem to be going anywhere and you know Microsoft's probably dumped enough money into Activision to practically develop the latest Call of Duty all on their own.

It really seems like this E3 is going to make or break this current generation, as seemingly every developer is delaying projects; jumping to mobile; or just re-releasing last gen titles. I'm reminded of Bill & Ted's conservation with their History Teacher at the beginning of Excellent Adventure, where he informs them that their only hope to pass the class is to ace their history report:

Teacher: "And guys...whatever it is had better be...REALLY...special."

E3's pretty much sucked for the last 2 years. We're due for a good one for once.

[NWR_insanolord]

There isn't anyone out there who would do a better job single-handedly supporting a console than Nintendo does. It's just a lousy situation to begin with, and Nintendo's best move would be to find a way that they don't have to do that anymore. If they can't pull that off, they yeah, expansion is necessary, or at least building more relationships with external studios like Next Level or Platnium. But again, this was always going to happen. This is what Zelda is, and has been for decades.

[broodwars]

There isn't anyone out there who would do a better job single-handedly supporting a console than Nintendo does. It's just a lousy situation to begin with, and Nintendo's best move would be to find a way that they don't have to do that anymore. If they can't pull that off, they yeah, expansion is necessary, or at least building more relationships with external studios like Next Level or Platnium. But again, this was always going to happen. This is what Zelda is, and has been for decades.

What I'm saying is that Nintendo shouldn't BE in the position where a single game delay can torpedo the entire rest of their year. If Nintendo's never going to make the changes necessary to make their platforms attractive to 3rd parties again, they need to expand so that when something like this happens, they have 2-3 other big titles that can pick up the slack.

[Adrock]

E3 2014 was a desperate, last-gasp attempt to gain any kind of traction for the Wii U, where they put everything they had on the table. If they weren't in the state they were in they probably would have held Zelda back.

This is Zelda, though. They all get delayed. This was inevitable, so I'm not sure why it upsets people this much.

That kind of thinking essentially sums up why Nintendo is in the bind its in. Part of Nintendo's idea of a desperate, last-gasp attempt at gaining traction was to show an extremely early build of a game it knows it can't deliver when it says its going to deliver it. Only a company that has lost touch with reality would think that's even an option. Take Zelda out E3 2014 and Nintendo still has the best overall showing. Delaying the game, potentially off Wii U entirely, just makes the company look so much worse than if it just kept its mouth closed.

I understand people getting upset over the delay since they want the game sooner rather than later. I don't agree, but I understand where they're coming from. I will always support delaying a game for quality control. My gaming habits are such that I don't care when a game is released, but my time is such that I want to make the most of it, and I'd rather do so with a better game. However, that isn't what my issue is. As recently as five months ago, Nintendo was insisting that Zelda was on schedule for a 2015 release, and I remained skeptical then:

Realistically if development has actually gone smoothly this time with no huge shakeups in design or controls, a 2015 can still be possible.

That goes without saying. When was the last time that actually happened? Not saying it can't, but at this point, I'd certainly bet against Nintendo releasing a console Zelda game on time.

November 2016 is when the Wii U's successor launches, and they're going to prefer to get Zelda out prior to that

Zelda would make a really lovely launch title.

Sure, much can happen in five months' time, but just don't say anything then. This is the same promise Nintendo has had such a hard time keeping in the past. Nintendo should have accepted that it wasn't winning the war. That doesn't mean "Give up and abandon Wii U." It means admitting, "Wii U is going to lose, but that's okay." Keep releasing solid titles, and don't screw anything up. Regroup, rebuild the brand, and ride the momentum into the next console. How hard is that?

[Mop it up]

I just hope that we hear a date for Xenoblade X soon.

[Luigi Dude]

I just hope that we hear a date for Xenoblade X soon.

They're probably waiting til E3 for that.  I wouldn't be surprised if they release it in either October or November to try and take advantage of the upcoming holiday rush now that Zelda's delayed.

[NWR_insanolord]

That kind of thinking essentially sums up why Nintendo is in the bind its in. Part of Nintendo's idea of a desperate, last-gasp attempt at gaining traction was to show an extremely early build of a game it knows it can't deliver when it says its going to deliver it. Only a company that has lost touch with reality would think that's even an option. Take Zelda out E3 2014 and Nintendo still has the best overall showing.

Nintendo wanted to sell Wii Us. They wanted to paint a picture of how great the Wii U's library was going to be so people would be willing to go out and buy one right then. It wasn't about when Zelda would be coming out, it was about getting people excited for the game and showing how ambitious it was. This wasn't an unusual strategy as far as the gaming industry goes.

[Adrock]

Zelda isn't a difference maker to people who aren't impressed by the rest of what Nintendo offers. That said, the people you speak of who care about Zelda and follow E3 are fence-sitting Nintendo fans. At that point, Nintendo was still trying to sell that specific group on Wii U, and its best pitch was, "Buy a Wii U now so you can play Zelda in a year and a half at the earliest... but since you know how we do things, the wait will most likely be much longer." Regardless of whether that strategy is common, it still isn't a good one. That kind of thinking is terribly shortsighted. Focus on what Wii U does well and the games that have a very strong possibility of releasing on time. Outside of Zelda, that was pretty much what Nintendo did at E3 2014.

Showing Zelda last year did Nintendo no real favors. That isn't even in hindsight. Yeah, it looked oh-my-god, but it was a ticking delay-bomb. Now, let's assume NX is a new home console. Imagine a full reveal of a nearly finished open-world Zelda at E3 2016. You want to talk about getting people excited? That would have carried NX hype right up to launch. A September/October Nintendo Direct would only sweeten the deal. Had Nintendo focused on Wii U's strengths, not its potential, it would be in a much stronger position moving forward.

[NWR_insanolord]

Their best pitch was to show a whole bunch of things. Zelda was the topper. The system already had a very good lineup at that point, but people were holding off because of worries about its future. Nintendo's goal was to portray that future in the best light possible, which means showing one of their most marketable franchises on it.

And even if they do end up pushing it to NX, I really don't think this does anything to hurt that. A new Zelda at a console launch would be exciting whether or not it had been seen before. The only downside is a short term one, right now, which they minimized to a pretty good degree by how they revealed it.

[Adrock]

No, the issue isn't whether or not Zelda had been seen before. The issue is delaying it. That perpetuates the notion that Nintendo can't deliver games in a timely manner and can't adequately support two platforms. Even if that's true, don't remind people of it. Waiting until the game is almost complete shatters those expectations and inspires confidence in Nintendo's brand. Rebuilding its brand should be of utmost importance. This was a completely avoidable problem.

[ShyGuy]

This was a completely avoidable problem.

I don't know that it is a completely avoidable problem. I think this is how Miyamoto works. Seeing a game almost fully formed must get his juices pumping and he gets inspired to add or change things on people's projects.

[Evan_B]

Again, it is not the delay that is annoying, it is owning a conse that has virtually no support outside of indie timed exclusives and Nintendo itself. The Wii was at least a slightly better situation because it had a shitload of shovel ware but also some decent third party titles, and people wanted to develop for something everyone owned. But Nintendo feels so half-assed towards its own system it's not even funny. "Empty promises" is what they should have called the Wii U. Games have been announced TWO YEARS before even having a solid release date, Nintendk has relied on quick shots of builds to keep the hype alive, and yet.. What have they done for the console? Iwata keeps talking about "THAT" game which will reinvigorate sales and give people a reason to buy the system- but they still haven't made it. Hell, I would HOPE any console developer would have enough forward thinking to say "Hm. We need to create a game that really shows what this system can do" at the BEGINNING of the console's life.

Maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. Zelda not being 2015 is again, passable because we all want it to be decent- but that still means one less game for 2015, and it's a major one, at that. Possibly the biggest game we would have all year. So if Nintendo still thinks it's okay to show off games two or three years before they release- whatever. Fine with me. They've lost a customer until they actually deliver on their grandiose ideas.

[Phil]

Really shows how fortunate we are when we're complaining about a game announced two years before a solid release date. Have you met the Nintendo of old? Were you around for Zelda 64? Does Rare ring any bells?

Heck, the two years before a solid release date thing is common on every other platform and many publishers, so why is it only not okay when Nintendo does it? They've recently been announcing games within the same year they release or a little ways off.

[Adrock]

They've recently been announcing games within the same year they release or a little ways off.

I'm strongly in favor of this model. I don't really want to hear about a game two years before release. I guess it's nice to see a game is in development. Then again, we always know Nintendo is working on new Zelda games.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

I think I might be more of a Zelda fan than I am a gamer and this delay further confirms my suspicions. All the other games I buy, while I do enjoy them, I'm thinking about the overall gaming state of my house. Can I play in front of the little ones? Will my teenage boys be able to play unsupervised? Will the wife enjoy watching me play? Zelda is the only game I by strictly for me and thats why this delay is such a bummer.




I'm old enough to remember the N64 delays and just how painful it was when Ocarina and Wind Waker were delayed. Didn't bother me much when Twilight pushed back to ad Forward Compatibility with "Revolution" as I saw that coming a mile away. Skyward Sword came out during the 25th Anniversary so there was plenty Zelda to be had. And with MM3D just released maybe Nintendo feels like they have enough fresh Zelda memories to hold over the folks like me? Maybe that Netflix project gets fast tracked to take the place of Zelda this Holiday? Maybe Zelda WiiU/NX is the next Greatest Game of all Time?


"I smellin a lotta if coming off this plan"
-Jayne Cobb

[lolmonade]

While disappointing, this news doesn't affect me personally that much.  I own a Wii U, PS4, PS3, Vita, and 3DS.  Between all those platforms, I have plenty of games to keep me entertained. 


For Nintendo's sake, I hope they have some pretty compelling software lined-up to fill the gap.  Zelda is a tentpole franchise for Nintendo, and I don't care what else is lined up for this year, the delay makes a crater-sized hole in their release schedule on a system that already has a relatively low count of games being released throughout the year.


I can't imagine this Zelda game being moved-out to an NX launch title.  I can't think of a single Nintendo console that didn't have its own Zelda game.  [size=78%]I'm curious to see what they do, if anything.  Do they finally announce a price cut this year to try and entice buyers this fall?  I assume we'll see some surprise announcements for the fall release as well.[/size]
[/size]
[/size]I don't necessarily see Zelda as a "system seller" in this case.  Most Nintendo Devotees I assume already bought it, the mass appeal games (Mario, Smash Bros, Mariokart) have released.  Anyone who doesn't see a good stable of Nintendo games worthy of buying the Wii U at this point either doesn't like most Nintendo Franchises or probably has more an issue with the console itself/3rd party support issues than the Nintendo games themselves.[size=78%]

[broodwars]

There's something troubling I just realized about the DeNA deal: we haven't seen any indication that Nintendo's expanding their operations to support the mobile market. Instead, they've seemed to indicate they have existing internal teams developing those mobile games. As I've previously noted, Nintendo's proven they can't support 2 devices at once anymore, leading to this see-saw pattern of releases where one device will go dry for a while as the other suddenly gets fresh support. The Zelda delays hurts because Nintendo's Wii U software support is stretched thin as it is.

Taking that into account, this Fall Nintendo's going to start supporting a THIRD device with mobile, and by next year they'll also be developing titles for a FOURTH with NX.  Does anyone else have a really bad feeling about the sheer strain on Nintendo's already thin development houses?

[Adrock]

Nintendo opened a new office in Kyoto a year ago.

[broodwars]

Nintendo opened a new office in Kyoto a year ago.

I was under the impression, though, that that was just bringing their existing console & handheld teams together under one building because they used to be separated.

[Adrock]

And left the space they previously used unoccupied?

[broodwars]

And left the space they previously used unoccupied?

We've been told very little about. Besides, as we've seen from their current Wii U & 3DS support, it doesn't seem to have made a hell of a lot of difference.  If you're implying that they're using that old space for a new mobile division, that would mean they'd have to have planned & segregated development teams to mobile a year before officially signing with DeNA...which sounds kind of insane. They also probably would've had to notate that in their investor reports, so we'd have heard of it by now. You certainly could be right, though.

[Adrock]

To answer your question, no, I don't have a bad feeling about the strain on Nintendo's development houses when we know little about them. And I'd give Nintendo a little more time before deciding if it's made a difference.

EDIT: Not specifically a mobile division, just hired more people for new teams. It seems ridiculous to me that Nintendo would just leave a bunch of rooms empty after constructing a new building. I'd imagine it's doing something with that space.

[NWR_insanolord]

Serious Question: Has Nintendo historically made public announcements about the formation of new internal teams? If they expanded, would we necessarily know about it right away? In the west you could try to track individual people through LinkedIn or whatever, but I don't know if that (or something similar) exists in Japan.

At what point did we know Nintendo made a new studio in Tokyo? Before they announced Jungle Beat?

[Ymeegod]

Usually they have their restructuring of teams listed in their quarterly reports but it's pretty dry reading.  What Nintendo's main problem is most of the "people" in charge are all old farts who maintain old ideas.  What they really need is fresh blood in the project leaders--hey I want VOICE CHAT IN MY GAMES, just because they didn't have that option in the 90's doesn't mean you should exclude that NOW--Splatoon I'm looking at you.

Or no Online MP options like Mario Party 10--

 

[NWR_insanolord]

I really don't get why people want Mario Party to be online. Splatoon not having voice chat I understand, it's a glaring omission in that type of game, but Mario Party seems like something that would be tremendously un-fun that way, even with full communication.

[Ymeegod]

"I really don't get why people want Mario Party to be online"

I'm an adult, mid 30's and don't have kids and the few gaming friends I do have only play two types of games--COD type or sports. 

Back in the 90's, I was younger in high-school/college so getting parties together wasn't that hard to do then but nowadays I work swing-swifts so I never know when I'm available and most of my older friends have busy schedules as well with their own families so local play for me is pretty much out of the question.

 

[broodwars]

Well, with all this Mario Party talk, this seems to be as good a place to post this as any.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I feel the same about Mario Party 10, I am alone now in my 30's and have no one to play with. If it had been online I would buy it but I refuse to play those games single player that is not fun at all.


Here is a thought about that empty building Adrock brought up, what if they are holding onto it so they can lease it to someone else as office space or you know sell it when they get desperate? Nintendo is a very conservative company I can seem them sitting on it for a long time if its more cost productive to do so.

[Adrock]

What Nintendo's main problem is most of the "people" in charge are all old farts who maintain old ideas.  What they really need is fresh blood in the project leaders--hey I want VOICE CHAT IN MY GAMES, just because they didn't have that option in the 90's doesn't mean you should exclude that NOW--Splatoon I'm looking at you.

Funny that you should mention Splatoon in the same sentence as Nintendo needing fresh blood since that's exactly who is in charge of the game.

Here is a thought about that empty building Adrock brought up, what if they are holding onto it so they can lease it to someone else as office space or you know sell it when they get desperate? Nintendo is a very conservative company I can seem them sitting on it for a long time if its more cost productive to do so.

Nah, dude, there isn't an empty building. There are now three Nintendo offices in Kyoto now, but the main ones being discussed here are the central office/headquarters and the new one Nintendo opened last June. The new building which is about the same size as headquarters presumably houses the merged console and handheld division (and probably the Quality of Life stuff) so all the hardware and system software research and development personnel were moved to that building. That left entire empty floors in the central office. I don't think it would rent out that space. My guess is that Nintendo either has filled or will fill those with more EAD teams. According to Wikipedia, Nintendo also has an office on Osaka, Japan which I didn't even know it had until today. Subsequent googling yielded no further information either. Wikipedia doesn't specifically list who is or will be housed there, only mentioning an incredibly vague and unsourced "May soon house R&D."

My point is that Nintendo is expanding. Perhaps not as quickly as it should. I really can't imagine Nintendo moving all that personnel then doing nothing with the recently vacated space.

[Ymeegod]

? Splatoon has a  senior producer, Hisashi Nogami, and he's been with Nintendo over 20 years so that's not exactly young blood.  It was his choice to canned VC, not the directors.  Hense my point. 

 

[ThePerm]

the only thing that could save this winter is if Nintendo has a good Metroid game to take its place that we didnt know about and is ready to release, i thought that was the case a rew years ago but it turned out to be a donkey kong country game. Sure its highly rated, but I don't think Nintendo makes the best 2D platformers anymore. My opinion: Leave the 2D platformers to indy devs. Actually if Nintendo licensed out its stuff to indy devs then that would work out the same way as the retro situation. If I were Nintendo and I had a huge workload I would put some it on 3rd parties. That would improve relations and guarantee good games get made. In the N64 era Nintendo was right about thier quality control concerns, now most 3rd party games are better.

[broodwars]

It's also worth noting that for all the "new blood" Splatoon allegedly has working on it, it's still dominated by "old blood" values such as refusing to support voice chat.

[Adrock]

? Splatoon has a  senior producer, Hisashi Nogami, and he's been with Nintendo over 20 years so that's not exactly young blood.  It was his choice to canned VC, not the directors.  Hense my point.

Splatoon is co-directed by Tsubasa Sakaguchi and Yusuke Amano. As far as I can tell, this is the first game Sakaguchi is directing, the second for Amano. I wasn't referring to Nogami, but I get your point now about voice chat.

[ThePerm]

the whole Splatoon thing is a positive step in the right direction.  I like how i see in Wal-mart pre-order cards. I think they should spend a whole bunch on advertising for this game. Splatoon is one of the upsides of Nintendo recently.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Is Splatoon out yet?

but on topic and the reason I stopped in this thread....

I'm too lazy to read the 70 some odd post before this one, but did it come up that the timing of this announcement seems too coincidentally placed after the announcement of a New Nintendo Platform (NX?) coming end of 2016?

Nintendo will need a flagship title to launch the system, and Zelda bridged teh gap for GC/Wii, so why not Wii U/NX(?).

I honestly haven't kept up with much VG related in the last year or so, but has anything else been said about NX, and did we all really expect Zelda to come out this year? that would kinda leave next year barren wouldn't it?

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

As far as I can tell nothing concrete has been said about NX just yet just a few vague comments that could be taken as hints no more.

Isn't it possible that Nintendo has been monitoring the buzz surrounding Splatoon and they are thinking it Could it be the the big game this year so they felt Zelda wasn't necessary this year?


I also don't get all this talk about how we need "new blood" here but in the Konami discussion people make it sound like its the end of the world an old timer leaving the company to make way for this "new blood" everyone says Nintendo desperately needs.

Also aren't most of the big indie games all made by people who grew up on Nintendo and are all trying to recapture the retro feel from those same games the old timers made back in their prime?

As far as timing goes, yeah it sounds too convenient for them to not be connected whatsoever.

[broodwars]

I also don't get all this talk about how we need "new blood" here but in the Konami discussion people make it sound like its the end of the world an old timer leaving the company to make way for this "new blood" everyone says Nintendo desperately needs.

I think the difference here is that Kojima was really the last of the big talent at Konami, as all the other big talent from the NES->PS1 eras had left the company previously.  And as far as we know, there is no "new blood" to take over for Kojima in terms of developing traditional games. Just look at the original incarnation of Metal Gear Rising for an idea of what a Konami team looked like without Kojima's direct involvement. In fact, Konami in general has pretty much left the industry already, so Kojima's leaving was pretty much the last nail in the coffin for a beloved developer.

Meanwhile, Nintendo's not going anywhere, but general perception seems to be that their games have gotten stale over the years. That's why you see the push for younger talent to start taking more prominent roles in the company.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I also don't get all this talk about how we need "new blood" here but in the Konami discussion people make it sound like its the end of the world an old timer leaving the company to make way for this "new blood" everyone says Nintendo desperately needs.

I think the difference here is that Kojima was really the last of the big talent at Konami, as all the other big talent from the NES->PS1 eras had left the company previously.  And as far as we know, there is no "new blood" to take over for Kojima in terms of developing traditional games. Just look at the original incarnation of Metal Gear Rising for an idea of what a Konami team looked like without Kojima's direct involvement. In fact, Konami in general has pretty much left the industry already, so Kojima's leaving was pretty much the last nail in the coffin for a beloved developer.

Meanwhile, Nintendo's not going anywhere, but general perception seems to be that their games have gotten stale over the years. That's why you see the push for younger talent to start taking more prominent roles in the company.

Not that those aren't good points, but wasn't NES Remix the result of this new talent? Wasn't that was just an excuse to play NES games at work, or so the story goes. I get the feeling that management is in charge no matter what so new talent is pretty much wasted as long as the old timers are running the show.

[nickmitch]

Are we sure the NX is a home console?  The popular theory of it being moved to the NX seems based on that assumption.

I would think the NX is a handheld since it was brought up in a conversation about Nintendo's newfound presence in the mobile space, seemingly to fight the notion that there's no point to having a dedicated portable gaming machine, if Nintendo is making games for phones.

The no-show at E3 seems weird.  It's the only part that doesn't really play into their whole "We just need more time to add all these cool ideas we just had" spiel.  Maybe Nintendo just has 2-3 unannounced Wii U titles that can be showcased at E3?  That's too convenient and improbable though. :^/

[Luigi Dude]

The no-show at E3 seems weird.  It's the only part that doesn't really play into their whole "We just need more time to add all these cool ideas we just had" spiel.  Maybe Nintendo just has 2-3 unannounced Wii U titles that can be showcased at E3?  That's too convenient and improbable though. :^/

I think the reason Zelda is a no show at this years E3 is because they've been spending most of their time up until now creating the giant world but haven't really filled it with content yet.  I mean the major selling point of this game is suppose to be the open world aspect.  In all other Zelda E3 demo's, they just have players play through parts of the early dungeons and that's about it.  With this Zelda they can't really do that because then people's first impressions will be, "well it's just another Zelda".  But if they allow people to run around the world right now, it probably still pretty empty which will give the impression it's Twilight Princess overworld all over again but just bigger, giving another negative first impression.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is why they just announced the delay right now since this is around the time Nintendo starts putting their E3 demo's together.  Even if they knew the game would be delayed before, they might have started putting a demo together and realized that development hasn't gotten far enough to really give people the impression of the new Zelda they want them to have.  That's why they won't show anything at E3 so people are still angry about the delay but still very hyped over the idea of a huge open world Zelda instead of people being mad at the delay and having a negative impression for the next year because of a poor E3 showing.

[nickmitch]

Good points all around.  But I couldn't help but think that at least a trailer could be ready for the show.  Not having a playable demo makes complete sense, especially with what you said, but a complete no-show feels strange.  Maybe they revamped the art style.

[Ymeegod]

I don't think you understand who Nintendo development works, producer>director.  The producer is the one who calls the shots so even if Amano wanted VC (he never states if he was for or against it) it wouldn't have matter since the higher ups already canned the idea.

Nintendo's known to be a stick in the mud (read Retro Studios early days with Metorid Prime, Raven Blade, ect). So all those that work at Nintendo now or more or less "yes, men". 

[Evan_B]

Nintendo better have a delightful surprise at E3. That's all I'm saying.

[lolmonade]

I get concerned that They're focusing on the open world aspect so much that there'll be almost no story in the game whatsoever.  That's my biggest gripe with most open world games, but I'll be disappointed if the gameplay ends up half-baked while they sacrifice what story conceits they have in tribute to "open world game".

[Adrock]

I don't think you understand who Nintendo development works, producer>director.  The producer is the one who calls the shots so even if Amano wanted VC (he never states if he was for or against it) it wouldn't have matter since the higher ups already canned the idea.

I can't tell if this is directed at me. If so, I already said I get what you're saying about Nogami and voice chat. I only pointed out Sakaguchi and Amano as "young blood" within the company. It's good that Nintendo has younger talent creating games that Nintendo wouldn't normally make (which is what I originally thought you were saying Nintendo needed) though it's a shame if senior staff members are holding them back in some ways (which, unless I'm mistaken, is what you were actually saying). I misinterpreted your original post. My bad. Are we good now?

[Ian Sane]

You know the whole situation makes me think of a sports team.  A good sports team needs depth because regardless of what lineup you put on paper it is an almost certainty that at some point in the season key players will be injured and you'll need to hold the fort with the talent at hand.  Lousy teams don't have that.  A key guy goes down and the season is toast.  That's the Wii U.  It's lack of third party support and Nintendo's thin resources make them a team relying entirely on a couple of star players and no one else.  Zelda is their future Hall-of-Famer and he just tore his ACL and now they're screwed.

When you're planning your release schedule you have to assume that delays will happen and if you don't have enough depth to make up for a couple delays then you're screwed.  I talk about third party support all the time but if there was ever a time to make the argument that Nintendo should consider this a priority it's now.  Sony and MS can have major releases get delayed and know that their userbase will still have games from other devs to play, so the value of the console remains strong.  Customers are happy, word-of-mouth for the console as a whole is positive.  I'm sure that's stuff Nintendo wants but they're just not really aware of how to get it.  What if the PS4 had some situation where EVERY game released in a three month window was delayed?  How many games would that be?  Over 20?  Can you imagine what impact an announcement that 20 games were all delayed at the same time would make?  Well that's this Zelda thing.  When your lineup is this thin one delay is like 20 games.  If you were a console maker you would never want something like that to happen and yet Nintendo has practically set that situation up.

Was this ever realistically going to be a 2015 game?  I didn't think it would but it seemed like it needed to be, unless Nintendo has something else to show at E3 to fill the gap.  I agree with Insanolord that Nintendo probably threw it out at E3 to make things look better than they are as a last ditch effort to move Wii U's in Christmas 2014.  I get that and if I had suddenly been plucked into Nintendo management last year I would have done the same.  Throw whatever you can at E3 to get people talking about Nintendo and to not get forgotten.  But I also would be working on expanding Nintendo's dev resources which we don't know if Nintendo has done.  The goal would be to use the Zelda announcement at E3 to buy some time but work your ass off to make sure that things are already improving a year later.  I don't know if Nintendo has been doing that but it seems more like they were thinking entirely in the present as usual and the goal was to sell Wii Us in 2014 and deal with tomorrow when it comes.

Adrock is right in that Nintendo needs a smooth transition from Wii U to NX (or whatever the Wii U successor is) to protect the brand but I don't know how they can do it if they don't have the resources to release enough games.  And even if they are working to improve that the results don't show overnight.  Nintendo needed to be addressing that stuff like a few months into the Wii U's life.  If they have been addressing the problem they should be able to show the fruits of that labour at E3, right?  If they expanded their teams those teams' projects should be due for at least a trailer by now.  But that's all a big if.

It feels like Nintendo is in so over their head right now on the console front that I wonder if their time in consoles is over and they just don't realize it yet.  So much stuff needs to be fixed and there isn't a lot of time to do it.

[Wah]

NX time!
Special edition Lucario version!

[Khushrenada]

NX time!
Special edition Lucario version!

Finally! A good post in this thread.

[ThePerm]

I dont think this has much to do with the NX. I had predicted twilight princess would both be on gamecube and wii
(nobody believed me), but i imagine nx is like a regular mobile platform, no buttons, all touch. But then again i really dont know anything about it. I can envsion a console/handheld hybrid, but nintendo doesnt do whatever everyone thinks they will do.

[Ian Sane]

i imagine nx is like a regular mobile platform, no buttons, all touch.

As I read this I made the sort of face one might make while eating spoiled food.  Games for that thing would be no better than current phone games.

But then if Nintendo was going to release such a device why even expand to mobile at all?  Or alternatively since this is like the same thing as mobile stuff why create the NX?  Who would buy a special Nintendo platform for the same kind of stuff they're already offering on your phone?  Nintendo specifically doesn't want to do that because they know that's a hard sell.  I suppose the NX could be beefier in specs and thus be specifically designed for games but all touchscreen is way too limiting.  The existing Nintendo platforms with touchscreens rarely offer games that don't have some button input.  The idea of a separate Nintendo platform is that it provides a superior gaming experience to a mobile device but this concept wouldn't offer a big enough improvement, if any at all.

[ThePerm]

doesnt mean i like that idea, but those constant stockholder questions about mobile. Thy might just cerate their mobile virtual boy.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

Sorry guys not what you think...




Symphony of the Goddess will be on the Late Show with Steven Colbert tonight and there is some new promo art being passed around NOT based on Tri Force Heroes and there is an TP icon recently found on the eShop. Will any of this lead me to a Zelda U trailer?

[TOPHATANT123]

No

[Soren]

Nope.

[Luigi Dude]

Well the new art render of Link being shown looks a lot like his Twilight Princess design so a Twilight Princess HD could be possible but any new trailer for Zelda U isn't hitting until at least E3.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

Well the new art render of Link being shown looks a lot like his Twilight Princess design so a Twilight Princess HD could be possible but any new trailer for Zelda U isn't hitting until at least E3.

E3? Just stab me in the sack with a dull spoon.

[Evan_B]

Yeah. Pretty disappointing. But as soon as they confirmed no Zelda trailer or anything for last E3 they pretty much solidified a holiday 2016 release, which was annoying and upsetting.