Author Topic: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)  (Read 1163058 times)

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Offline broodwars

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3850 on: March 18, 2019, 06:51:08 PM »
I find it amusing that both DC & Marvel put out female-led superhero movies that have the same "where the **** have you BEEN?" issue. Justice League decided to just hand-waive it when it came to Wonder Woman and MAYBE address it in the 2nd Wonder Woman movie. I suspect Captain Marvel will probably do the same.

I actually had a similar "Where the **** is everyone?" complaint when I played Spider-Man PS4. There are landmarks in that game for probably a dozen different Marvel characters, including Doctor Strange & The Avengers. However, when New York gets a weapon of mass destruction unleashed upon it, only Spider-Man is around to deal with it.

This is the problem of shared universes. Either the other superheroes are there and you need to explain why they're not there, or this character needs to be the ONLY superhero at the time. I actually appreciated that at least Ant Man thought to bring up going straight to the Avengers before they kind of hand-waived it away.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3851 on: March 18, 2019, 07:02:41 PM »
WW has the built in excuse of going back to the island but that's also pretty weak as that runs counter to her purpose.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3852 on: March 18, 2019, 07:16:21 PM »
I took both of them at face value that they just were busy or unneeded at the time. Captain Marvel has the excuse of being galaxies away and Fury knew this. Your friend tells you to only call them in an emergency, you don't call them because you drank the last of their milk while house-sitting. Fury knew she was busy and was assembling his own team to fill in because of this. Also, we may still get the Dr Strange reaching out to Fury scene to warn him, so even when things get bad in, say, Ultron, Fury knows that he needs to save the pager call for a bigger Hail Mary.

For WW, I took it as her not being called or needed between times. She decided to lay low and learn more about humanity, and she isn't omniscient. She doesn't have the resources of Batman or a deep network of spies to report every little thing in the world, so she just does what is within her sphere of influence. Think like a Marvel Defender, who has a 'territory' in NY they defend, unless something draws them out into the larger conflict. She was hiding before Batman found her out and made the connection.

If you think too hard then any construct will fall apart, and for me this is where the suspension of disbelief comes into play. We cannot have something be 100% true to life with EVERYTHING making sense, so we need to allow our disbelief to be suspended. And for a game, who is the star? You are in the role of the specific character. So the focus is on you. Other heroes could be taking breaks, addressing other issues, or just plain unaware that it is happening until after the fact.

The important thing for me is the enjoyment of the ride at hand, so long as at least a reasonable effort is made to suspend my disbelief.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 07:18:19 PM by Stratos »
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3853 on: March 18, 2019, 10:03:58 PM »
I don't see why Capt Marvel taking a full day or two to travel "a few galaxies" is unreasonable.  She's OP in the film, but not in a way that implies she can practically teleport that distance.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3854 on: March 18, 2019, 10:09:15 PM »
Captain Marvel seems to really only have the same powers as Iron Man when you break them down.

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Offline Adrock

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3855 on: March 19, 2019, 01:22:04 AM »
Here’s what Kevin Feige said:
Quote
Well, I’d say two things. One, she does say it’s gotta be a real emergency, right? The other thing I’d say is how do you know he never hit it? How do we know he never pushed it before? We’ve never seen him push it before. That doesn’t mean he never did.
It’s a retcon, but it works. The mid-credits scene shows the remaining/original Avengers keeping the pager distress signal going. If it’s a real emergency, Fury will keep calling Danvers. How long did the Battle of New York actually last?

Even if Marvel thought of the pager in 2012, it doesn’t make sense narratively to show it because there wouldn’t be a payoff for seven years. This isn’t like the Thanos tease in the end credits scene of Avengers. The actual movie is over. He’s clearly a major villain/“man behind the curtain” for future films. If Fury pages someone in the middle of the movie and she doesn’t show up before the end of it, that’s bad storytelling. It’s the principle behind Chekhov’s Gun. It works as a teaser in the end credits of Avengers: Infinity War because they lost and the movie ended. There’s no way to insert that scene in the movie itself without disrupting the emotional impact of the snap.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3856 on: March 19, 2019, 05:51:37 AM »
Too far away is weak at best. In a world with weaponised magic portals, time manipulation, dimensional portals and a Rabbit with a space ship that can travel any arbitrary distance in any arbitrary length of time distance is meaningless.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3857 on: March 19, 2019, 06:38:16 AM »
Gang, they don't show the characters on the Enterprise using the bathroom, therefore, we must assume they never use the bathroom.  Maybe replicated food breaks down in the body more efficently.

Obviously, if you don't see something on screen, then it never, ever happens.

Also, the pager wouldn't be a retcon issue with Captain Marvel, it's an issue with Infinity War.  The movie it's introduced in.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 06:57:20 AM by UncleBob »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3858 on: March 19, 2019, 06:49:35 AM »
This isn't a missing bathroom problem a reckless comparison as toilets isn't important.

Speed of travel is critical as it forms a strong part of any show's tension(NuSW fucks it up). The possibility the hero can't get there in time to avoid catastrophe. Thor in IW sort of gets around that by giving him a quest but then basically teleport to the final battle. Rabbit must have one hell of a ship(Can't remember how he got there).

Thor has also been shown not needing a ship to travel arbitrary distances in Avengers. So yeah.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3859 on: March 19, 2019, 06:56:25 AM »
ITT: Captain Marvel is secretly Thor or something.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3860 on: March 19, 2019, 08:21:09 AM »
In regards to Captain Marvel and her not being there for the major battles like the fight for NY, Winter Soldier and Ultron I have this to say.

Fury made a point of creating the Avengers Initative shortly after his experience with Carol in CM.  It pretty much was many years in the making before Fury talked with Stark about joining with him and once the Avengers got together and he felt like he could trust them and that they could handle whatever emergencies that came up there wasn't as strong as a need to page Carol.  For the fight for NY it was a major city but it wasn't as calamitous to the whole earth.  The other thing is that Fury was the only one who knew about the pager so he probably felt like he needed to be in mortal danger to call Captain Marvel.

Infinity War was the major event where all three of those factors were in place and it was near the end of the movie where it made sense to do it.
 
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Offline Adrock

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3861 on: March 19, 2019, 09:24:01 AM »
Thor in IW sort of gets around that by giving him a quest but then basically teleport to the final battle. Rabbit must have one hell of a ship(Can't remember how he got there).

Thor has also been shown not needing a ship to travel arbitrary distances in Avengers. So yeah.
1. Rocket and Groot arrive on Earth with Thor who used Stormbreaker to access the Bifrost. It’s weird that you’re not going to look this stuff up but you’re still going to be snarky about it.

2. Loki strongly suggests Odin used dark energy in Avengers to send Thor back to Earth (specifically to take Loki back to Asgard).

The portals Rocket and Yondu zip through to get to Ego in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 were dangerous. Yondu warns that it isn’t healthy to do more than 50 jumps at a time (they did 700). More importantly, not everyone just has access to these things.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3862 on: March 19, 2019, 12:13:21 PM »
In the opening of IW Bruce gets sent to Earth in next to no time. Strange whips up portals like it's nothing. I am sure you know all the examples. The point is if you really need to go somewhere it's pretty casual to do so with a lot of methods especially if you are a super.

DCAU starts to have the same problem with boom tubes. It's limitations flip flops with how portable it might be, whether there needs a matching portal. One constant is requiring a device. They write around this in varying ways like not knowing where to go, security, DRM, can't figure out the device, story having no reason to use one.

It's a variation of power creep.

Regardless there will be some explaining to do.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3863 on: March 19, 2019, 01:10:08 PM »
The US Military has faster than sound jets.

Why do I have to drive an hour to get to my nearest EX Eligible gym in Pokémon go?

In IW, Peter Parker is stuck taking a school bus driven by a 95 year old man slogging through bumper to bumper New Your City traffic.  Yeesh. why can't he just psychically contact Dr. Strange to make him a portal to school!
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3864 on: March 19, 2019, 01:32:37 PM »
None of those options are appropriate for the task or reasonable use case. It's an absurd line of argument you know is false. It would be irresponsible for CM not to have a fast way to come back. There are just too many examples to say she doesn't have an option.

They are going to have to think about the story, be a bit clever and not hand wave it way like they don't care, to take everyone for fools.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3865 on: March 19, 2019, 01:53:45 PM »
Your argument is "Character X did this, why can't Character Y do it?"

And you want us to take it seriously.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3866 on: March 19, 2019, 01:55:28 PM »
In the opening of IW Bruce gets sent to Earth in next to no time. Strange whips up portals like it's nothing. I am sure you know all the examples. The point is if you really need to go somewhere it's pretty casual to do so with a lot of methods especially if you are a super.
Heimdall sends Banner back to Earth via the Bifrost. “All-fathers, let the dark magic flow through me one last time.”

Mordo explains the portals created by the sling ring in Doctor Strange. “Mastery of the sling ring is essential to the mystic arts. They allow us to travel throughout the universe. All you need to do is focus. Visualize. See the destination in your mind. Look beyond the world in front of you. Imagine every detail. The clearer the picture, the quicker and easier the gateway will come.” The point is that it very explicitly isn’t “like nothing.” Mastering the mystic arts is hard, very few people can do it, and it has a very obvious limitation. Dr. Strange, for example, couldn’t just warp everyone to Titan in Avengers: Infinity War because he doesn’t know what it looks like, where it even is.

Captain Marvel just flies off at the end of that movie. That’s her mode of transportation. The other modes mentioned in this thread have not been shown to be accessible to her. So yes, someone in the MCU can get around pretty quickly.......... with the caveat that they have access to said means of transportation. FFS, man, these explanations are in the movies regardless of whether you weren’t paying attention, don’t remember, or are too lazy to look it up.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3867 on: March 19, 2019, 02:00:50 PM »
No it isn't, there are many possible way to travel fast many characters have used. While some maybe unique to a given character there are too many possible modes for her not to have one. Spaceships are pretty damn fast and you can buy/steal those. There are in-universe mundane ways to go somewhere fast.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3868 on: March 19, 2019, 02:07:52 PM »
Dude.

We have no idea how far away Captain Marvel was when the pager went off.  Between Captain Marvel and Avengers 1 was about 20 years.  She could have been in space, flying a straight line, for the last twenty years.  It could take her 20 years to get back to Earth.

You did watch CM, right?  The whole plot of the movie was Mar-vell trying to build a really fast ship and it blew up (and CM gave the power source to SHIELD). 
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3869 on: March 19, 2019, 02:48:02 PM »
Pretty sure he just wants people to hate the movie.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3870 on: March 19, 2019, 03:01:09 PM »
The Guardians have a (stolen?) space ship, and it took them so long to get Earth, they never did (as a group).
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3871 on: March 19, 2019, 08:51:37 PM »
Why the Skrulls were there... a plot hole. Now lets move on 20 years. I feel like that was a throwaway line of dialog.
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Offline Shorty McNostril

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3872 on: March 24, 2019, 08:27:24 PM »
Runaways has been renewed for season 3.

https://twitter.com/marvelsrunaways/status/1109961090241183744

I'm sure everyone will be pleased about that....

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3873 on: March 26, 2019, 04:51:20 PM »

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Re: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)
« Reply #3874 on: March 26, 2019, 05:36:52 PM »
Shuri is in the lineup of the dead. So that settles that question. Also, Loki is on there and allegedly was not part of the Snap, while Heimdall is not on there. Hmmm. My guess is that all the dead on the poster return, but Heimdall is not returning :(

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