Topic: SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL - The New Megathread

[Sarail]

I think the new Ridley/boss battle rearrangement is great.  It definitely picks up steam toward the end, though.  But it's great stuff nonetheless.  Can't wait to hear the full theme.

Plus, maybe this is a hint that Ridley is a possible secret playable character.

[Ceric]

I really doubt Ridley is playable.  I think he is a boss type battle though.

[mantidor]

am I the only one that just doesn't see the appeal of Ridley as a playable character? everyone suggests it but I think it would ruin him, seeing him punching someone is kind of silly, and they couldn't use a standard ridley since he mostly flies around and attacks with his tail which wouldn't work that well in the game.

[Spak-Spang]

I am really curious if Adventure mode will return, and if it will be improved upon.

The first Adventure mode was fun, but in the end didn't capture the feel of all the different games well.

Of course the ones that felt most accurate were:

Mario,
Metroid,
F-Zero (believe it or not)

I would like adventure mode to be about experiencing one aspect of that game.  

Be it running through an authentic level of that game.
Going through a turn based Smash Bros. Battle in a traditional RPG style.
Facing a giant Alien Boss.
Be forced to do some crazy Micro Games to advance.
Solve typical Puzzles from the game.
Escape a Maze.

Basically, I want to feel like Smash Bros is putting me inside the different Nintendo games and worlds with my combatant.  The last adventure mode didn't feel that way at all...instead it felt like I was being forced to do strange battles that made no sense.  (A giant Kirby after facing all the other Kirbys, or a Giant Donkey Kong after facing mini Donkey Kongs)

Heck, Donkey Kong's level would be great as a single screen adventure level that cancelled your attack and double jump and made you climb up to save the girl from Donkey Kong...and then you end up in a battle on that level now switched to a more traditional Smash Bros level.  

A fun Pokemon Adventure level would be to have battles with different Pokemon that Ash throws out at you.  You have to attack the Pokemon and defeat them, without hurting Ash too much as to disqualify you from the battle.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Be it running through an authentic level of that game. - Done
Going through a turn based Smash Bros. Battle in a traditional RPG style. - No way
Facing a giant Alien Boss. - Done
Be forced to do some crazy Micro Games to advance. - Hell no
Solve typical Puzzles from the game. - No
Escape a Maze. - ...Maybe


No matter what games are represented in Smash Bros., it's still its own game.  I don't want to play Wario Ware when I'm playing Smash Bros.  If I want to play Wario Ware, I'll put Wario Ware in the system instead.  I do like the idea of a Donkey Kong level, although there's no reason to take away any abilities, because that's paying homage to the old game within the gameplay of Smash Bros.  Once you take Smash Bros. out of it, though, you're no longer paying homage, you're just playing a crappy version of another game.

[Spak-Spang]

PartyBear:

I understand that Smash Bros is its own game, but come on.  If you have the regular single player mode, Vs mode, Event Battles, why not spice up the adventure mode for variety.

I think it would be fun.  Most of the giant boss battles in Melee was not unqiue villians to a specific franchise, just either larger scary version of playable characters, or the final boss Master Hand.

I want to feel something more like I am actually in the actual games, not just running around through their world just waiting to Smash something.  

The Super Mario level was cool but felt off because you were attacking the goombas with punches and kicks.  Why not limit the abilities to only jumps so you must play that level in the means of playing a Mario game.

A Link Level could take place in a side scrolling Dungeon actually forcing you to solve puzzles along as monster.  Like pushing blocks, hitting those eyes to open doors ect.  

Ash actually fighting you 10 different Pokemon.  Calling out attacks and such as you fight the Pokemon...the very end he puzzles out a Legendary Pokemon and your just like AHHHHH  NUTZ!!!

A well placed lighthearted turn based level would not destory the adventure mode game...it would be fun.

Heck, if they could get a good 3D engine going a Metal Gear Solid sneaking around level could be a blast as well.

[Adrock]

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I want to feel something more like I am actually in the actual games, not just running around through their world just waiting to Smash something.

I agree. While Adventure mode was a great idea, the levels were too few and just kind of lame. I've read that during Melee's development Miyamoto told Sakurai to focus squarely on multiplayer and that Sakurai had to practically beg to keep the expanded single player in tact. So, I feel that since Sakurai has basically been given free reign over Brawl, the single player aspects will be greatly improved.

I'd like to see:
- Randomly generated levels
- Real bosses... from the games that probably wouldn't work as playable characters, like Ridley
- Enemies that did more than walk
- a storyline

[LuigiHann]

I'd like to see (red: no chance ever) an Adventure mode that's more of a side-scrolling brawler, like the old-school Final Fight games and whatnot. Mostly similar to the Mario level from Melee's adventure mode, but with enemies that fight back and take multiple hits to kill. And more than one player co-operating (but with separate point totals for competitive edge). That would have more of a smash-bros feel, but the level designs and bosses could still pay homage to the original games.

I'd also love to see more of a storyline, with some kind of tongue-in-cheek explanations for traveling between worlds.  

[Ceric]

I don't know if I limit thyem.  Thought it would be cool to go through a Zelda level with the current perspective or better yet from the top like the traditional series.

I agree with Adrock except I don't want a real storyline because it messes with the overall storyline of them being kids play things.  Also I like to see the Koopa kids make an appearance as non-playable characters in a battle.  I'm looking forward to a greatly expanded Single Player experience since I don't have anyone to multi with and enjoy the single player.

[Adrock]

I never liked the toys/trophies thing. It always seemed like Nintendo shying away violence, as if they characters aren't really fighting each other because they're just toys. The first 2 Smash games were made during Nintendo's "big stick in the ass" era. Remember the bowling pin sound effects in the original Smash changed from the Japanese version.

So I'd like to see a better way of explaining the Smash universe. It don't want long cutscenes or anything like that. Just a better way of connecting all these characters and worlds.

[LuigiHann]

I think the storyline should deal with some sort of time-traveling meteor splitting the dimensions. (A mashup of Metroid Prime Echoes, Earthbound, and the SMB movie, with elements of the Dark/light world concept from Zelda)

[Smash_Brother]

To hell with adventure mode, and any other single player aspects of SSBB.

SSBB is Nintendo's flagship MULTIPLAYER game.

If they botch yet another SSB game with clones and cut corners because they spend too much time focusing on the single player instead of the multiplayer, then I will eat all of Sakurai's children, starting with the most tender and moving to the stringiest.

Let me further illustrate this point with a graph for better effectiveness...



No one is going to buy SSBB for the single player, and even if you do, guess what? You will be able to play it ONLINE so you will still enjoy more multiplayer aspects of it because, no matter HOW much they focus on the single player, it will not be played anywhere near as long as the multiplayer, period.

So, bottom line: if you want to play Metroid, SMB or Zelda, go play that and let SSB be SSB.  

[Bill Aurion]

"The first 2 Smash games were made during Nintendo's "big stick in the ass" era."

Uh, what?  If anything, Melee was a big departure from SSB64 with its Teen rating... =|

[Ceric]

I'm sorry Adrock but I think the whole toy/trophy thing is brilliant.  It allows all the characters to interact without having to worry about muddling each other universes.  Samus nor Link will ever know that Mario exist because he doesn't in there universe.  Throw in Smash and you start mixing thing up if the actual characters come in.  It also makes it easy to explain some of the little differences.  Not to mention the different sizes and having multiple of the same character at a given time.  No it explains things to well to be replaced by a hard story.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Ceric
I'm sorry Adrock but I think the whole toy/trophy thing is brilliant.  It allows all the characters to interact without having to worry about muddling each other universes.  Samus nor Link will ever know that Mario exist because he doesn't in there universe.  Throw in Smash and you start mixing thing up if the actual characters come in.  It also makes it easy to explain some of the little differences.  Not to mention the different sizes and having multiple of the same character at a given time.  No it explains things to well to be replaced by a hard story.

Quoted For 'Effin Truth.

Smash is beautiful. Stop trying to hardcore my game.

[Spak-Spang]

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Originally posted by: Adrock

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I want to feel something more like I am actually in the actual games, not just running around through their world just waiting to Smash something.

I agree. While Adventure mode was a great idea, the levels were too few and just kind of lame. I've read that during Melee's development Miyamoto told Sakurai to focus squarely on multiplayer and that Sakurai had to practically beg to keep the expanded single player in tact. So, I feel that since Sakurai has basically been given free reign over Brawl, the single player aspects will be greatly improved.

I'd like to see:
- Randomly generated levels
- Real bosses... from the games that probably wouldn't work as playable characters, like Ridley
- Enemies that did more than walk
- a storyline

This is exactly what I want to see.  I think a solid Single player experience is important, and I hope that a new revived focus is created for it.

Personally, I think the toys work for this idea.  I don't want a large story Kingdom Hearts style of any kind telling me why I am playing these characters.

I am happy with the kids playing with toys and using their imaginations to create the worlds and wonderful sceneros.  

It is perfect, but we do need Bosses from games that could never be playable, and a nice blend of other elements of the games which inspired Brawl.

[Smash_Brother]

I still disagree: this might be the last SSB game we see from Sakurai (by his own words). It will have online, making the multiplayer replay value infinitely higher than SSBM.

Know what happens when a single game tries to be a game for all genres? You get Sonic Adventure.

Let Smash be Smash.

[Adrock]

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Smash_Brother wrote:
no matter HOW much they focus on the single player, it will not be played anywhere near as long as the multiplayer, period.

The same could be said of any game with great multiplayer. I don't think developers should automatically shun the single player experience just because the multiplayer mode will be played more. In Smash, much of the multiplayer is unlocked through the single player game. I feel that improving the single player game improves all aspects of the overall game. Smash will always be known for its multiplayer, but a great single-player mode would be like getting 2 great games in one. It's still the Smash we all know and love, just with a better single player game.

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Ceric wrote:
I'm sorry Adrock but I think the whole toy/trophy thing is brilliant. It allows all the characters to interact without having to worry about muddling each other universes. Samus nor Link will ever know that Mario exist because he doesn't in there universe. Throw in Smash and you start mixing thing up if the actual characters come in. It also makes it easy to explain some of the little differences. Not to mention the different sizes and having multiple of the same character at a given time. No it explains things to well to be replaced by a hard story.

I'm sorry, but that's seriously like the weakest argument ever. Consider, for example, that both Samus and Link were in Super Mario RPG. They don't belong there, but that doesn't matter. A Metroid game is never going to reference Samus' stay in the Mushroom Kingdom. What I'm suggesting is an independent Smash universe in which a storyline wouldn't be considered canon among any of the series represented.

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Spak-Spang wrote:
Personally, I think the toys work for this idea. I don't want a large story Kingdom Hearts style of any kind telling me why I am playing these characters.

I know what you and Ceric are saying. The toy/trophy thing works as a way of bringing the characters together. I just don't like it. It's lame. A storyline could work and maybe even justify an overhauled and far deeper Adventure mode. It doesn't have to be a Kingdom Hearts like story. Just something competent and interesting to link all the characters and worlds together.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Adrock

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Ceric wrote:
I'm sorry Adrock but I think the whole toy/trophy thing is brilliant. It allows all the characters to interact without having to worry about muddling each other universes. Samus nor Link will ever know that Mario exist because he doesn't in there universe. Throw in Smash and you start mixing thing up if the actual characters come in. It also makes it easy to explain some of the little differences. Not to mention the different sizes and having multiple of the same character at a given time. No it explains things to well to be replaced by a hard story.

I'm sorry, but that's seriously like the weakest argument ever. Consider, for example, that both Samus and Link were in Super Mario RPG. They don't belong there, but that doesn't matter. A Metroid game is never going to reference Samus' stay in the Mushroom Kingdom. What I'm suggesting is an independent Smash universe in which a storyline wouldn't be considered canon among any of the series represented.

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Spak-Spang wrote:
Personally, I think the toys work for this idea. I don't want a large story Kingdom Hearts style of any kind telling me why I am playing these characters.

I know what you and Ceric are saying. The toy/trophy thing works as a way of bringing the characters together. I just don't like it. It's lame. A storyline could work and maybe even justify an overhauled and far deeper Adventure mode. It doesn't have to be a Kingdom Hearts like story. Just something competent and interesting to link all the characters and worlds together.

Ah, I get what you're saying now Adrock. You mean a storyline that's fun and playful more than anything. They don't need to be toys, the storyline is just a narrative throw-away giving them all excuses to be together... but FUN and non-serious ones!

I'm for that. I thought you were implying that they should go for some epic, serious, and hardcore-y Kingdom Hearts storyline that tries to be more than it is. I'm against that, but if they put a storyline that's as light and playful as the adventure mode in Melee, then I'm all for it. No one questioned that when you got blown off of Zebes that you landed on Kirby's Warp Star World!  

[that Baby guy]

I have mixed feelings about it.  I think if they were to make a game with a more serious storyline, it may need to be outside the boundaries of Super Smash Bros.  I just don't think it could happen unless they were to rip off the Kingdom Hearts storyline to an extent.  Well, I suppose it could happen if the game was about preventing smoking, but that's been done before, too.  I just don't see how it's possible without creating an entirely new world.  

[LuigiHann]

It wouldn't have to be serious. Something comical, even absurd.

Btw, did anybody notice that Super Paper Mario's premise was basically a dumbed-down kingdom hearts?

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Adrock  Smash will always be known for its multiplayer, but a great single-player mode would be like getting 2 great games in one. It's still the Smash we all know and love, just with a better single player game.

I have no problem with THAT.

What I DO have a problem with is that they worked on the single player mode while the multiplayer mode was still horribly lacking via clones, sh*tty secret character lineup and balance issues up the wazoo.

Halo 2's single player ended abruptly. Does anyone care? Of course not, because it's remembered as the game that sold 8 million copies and had the best online multiplayer on the Xbox.

No one remembers SSBM for the adventure mode.

[Kairon]

Because it's a fighting game. Does ANYBODY remember fighting games for their single-player modes?!?!?!?!?!

[that Baby guy]

Ergheiz.  Oh, wait.  No one even remembers Ergheiz.

How about Sonic Battle.  Nope, no one remembers that one either...

Hmmm.... That NES fighting game where you are some kind of Karate master, and people kill you.  You know the one I'm talking about.  I think you go down stairs at some point.  Anyone else remember this thing?

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
If they botch yet another SSB game with clones and cut corners because they spend too much time focusing on the single player instead of the multiplayer, then I will eat all of Sakurai's children, starting with the most tender and moving to the stringiest.

Heh, for the record, I think clones are more for a tweak on one particular character.  You'll not they're not exactly the same.  Someone may want a slightly stronger version of Fox, well hey! you have Falco...

People complain about the weirdest things when it comes to this game.  I kind of like the idea of putting some genuine thought into making adventure mode a bit more of a, well adventure.  SSpank I think had some random thoughts and I'd love it if the developers went through the same brainstorming and came up with some truely unique elements for the adventure mode (by the way, it's likely better to make moves ineffective than to make them not available).  The whole face this guy, then face a team of kirbies, then polygon team...  it hasn't changed at all...

And if you think they cut corners on SSBM b/c of single player? please! They spent all of five seconds on it... what did they do? add a little randomization?  Instead of always starting with Link, it's random now!  Whoopieee!