Author Topic: it depends on the day  (Read 6871 times)

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Offline Svevan

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it depends on the day
« on: September 21, 2007, 03:58:43 PM »
Some days I ask myself or am asked by another person what my favorite movie is. My easy go-to answer is usually 2001: A Space Odyssey, because of its ability to challenge and provoke, its masterful creation, its courage to be wholly "other." I love the movie, and I think everyone should see it.

But it depends on the day. For a period of time (not distant, maybe two years ago) I would say E.T. because it was such an unorthodox choice. Other days I might throw out Tarkovsky's masterpiece Andrei Rublev, depending on how tortured I may be feeling. Sometimes depression leads me to Lost in Translation, a movie I can watch any day of the week. If I am remembering how much I love non-fiction films, Les Blank's Burden of Dreams will top my list easily (or maybe For All Mankind). I could go on.

The point is, today my favorite film of all time is Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World. I have never been as mistaken about a film as I was by this one (aside maybe The Bourne Supremacy, another big-budget mainstream masterpiece). I laughed at each and every trailer I saw for this movie, refusing to see it, not realizing who directed it. A friend wanted to go see it opening weekend, and I acquiesced, to a matinee show of course. I was blown away. I am sure some of you feel similarly.

It is important to know that Peter Weir directed this movie, and his gift is putting people in real environments (and by real I mean authentic; his last film before Master and Commander was The Truman Show) that challenge their goals. In MaC the environment is obviously nature; the same is true for Mosquito Coast and (to a lesser extent) Picnic at Hanging Rock.

The film's cinematography is magnificent: action sequences are filmed violently, yet without an overly choppy presentation, meshing well with the aesthetics of the sea and the camerawork during non-action sequences. Weir shows us the outside of the boat, the inside, he flies in helicopters over the boat or rides in boats around it. We get to see everything, so the struggle to maintain this awesome structure is real to us. We notice the fragility of the mast as well as the human body.

We witness strategic meetings and arguments between Crowe and the ship's doctor, played by Paul Bettany. Classical music pervades the soundtrack, but subtly shifts to a beautiful score that could have been written in the time period of the film. The film, really, is a symphony of the ocean, a relationship between two men, ship politics, and the weight of power. Watching the hour long documentary on the second disc is shocking: who knew making movies was so hard?

So I love this movie. That is all.
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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:it depends on the day
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2007, 05:05:50 PM »
I feel that way too actually. When someone asks me, what's my favorite TV show or movie, I find it very hard to name just one because the experience of one movie or tv show from another can vary so much.

After thinking about it a lot one day, I decided to come up with one answer anyways. When someone asks my favorite movie, I usually reply "The Great Escape". The funny thing is how it catches so many people offguard. Why that? Or what is that movie? I explain that it has many of the things I like in a movie. It's set in a historical setting. It's long and epic. It has some action but also a lot of drama. The movie focuses a long time on how the prisioners escape. It also shows human ingenuity and rising up against great odds. It has great chracters, a fine musical score. It's a movie I can enjoy watching over and over again. There's more to it than that. There's just a quality about the film that I just love about it.

But does it mean if there are two movies on TV and one is "The Great Escape", I'm going to pick it over the other film? No. It depends on what I feel like experiencing that day.

2001: A Space Odyssey is another great movie though. To me, that is one of the best movies that exemplifies the visual medium part of movies. I hated the book but I love the movie so much. I think it's best viewed at night and slightly tired though. Your brain just seems more able to let the movie take over your conciousness then.

Hey Svevan, would you agree with my assertation that The Bourne Supremacy has the best car chase ever put on film?
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Offline UncleBob

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2007, 05:15:21 PM »
Best movie ever?  Terminator 2, easy.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2007, 05:16:07 PM »
The A-Team.
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Offline Caliban

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2007, 05:33:28 PM »
The Bourne Supremacy was hilarious, I never watched the first 2 movies though.

Every day is different indeed.

Offline Mashiro

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2007, 05:39:34 PM »
I can rarely pick out just one favorite as well and I agree it sometimes does depend on the day . . .

One of my favorite films is The Shawshank Redemption =)

Offline Kairon

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2007, 05:45:28 PM »
God I need to buy Master & Commander. That is a SERIOUS hole in my collection.

... along with 10 Things I hate about you.
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2007, 05:54:11 PM »
My personal favorite movie will probably be my favorite movie 'til the day I die...

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade...Nothing else comes close in my list...
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Offline Svevan

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RE:it depends on the day
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2007, 05:59:11 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Khushrenada
Hey Svevan, would you agree with my assertation that The Bourne Supremacy has the best car chase ever put on film?

I haven't seen enough car chase movies - certainly the movies that are devoted to chases, like Gone in 60 Seconds and others have fantastic imagery. Supremacy's chase, though, is violent and physical, thanks to Greengrass' cinema verite excess. We could list other great car chases on film here as a way to narrow the list.

One of the first to come to my mind as actually "great" was Death Proof.

Caliban: Supremacy was the second, Ultimatum was the third. I have not yet seen Ultimatum. I am an idiot.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2007, 06:08:48 PM »
I decided a long time ago that my favorite movie would be Strictly Ballroom.
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Offline Caliban

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RE:it depends on the day
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2007, 06:15:35 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
Caliban: Supremacy was the second, Ultimatum was the third. I have not yet seen Ultimatum. I am an idiot.


Ah yes, thanks for the correction, then so, Ultimatum was hilarious.

Speaking of Death Proof, I am an idiot for not have gone to watch such a movie along with the other movie (my memory is fuzzy right now), I guess I'm going to have to get the DVD...s.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2007, 09:01:16 PM »
My favorite film of all time is Ronin. Directed by John Frankenheimer, Dialog ghost written by David Mamet, Starring Robert DeNiro, Jean Reno, and Sean Bean. Not to mention some of the best driving sequences ever to grace a film. The stunts will probably never to be duplicated thanks to insurance and CGI.  

Offline vudu

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2007, 03:15:37 AM »
At the risk of getting flamed, can someone tell me what was so great about Master And Commander?  I thought it was shot very well, but the story went nowhere and Russel Crowe was overacting almost as much as he was in Gladiator.  I walked away feeling very bitter.

My favorite movies would be Dr. Strangelove, Fight Club, Jackie Brown, and Amelie.  I also really like Sunset Blvd. but I haven't seen it enough to be able to call it a favorite.

Also, I just saw Borne Identity for the first time last week.  After hearing Svevan (and many others) talk up the series so much I was let down.  It was a good popcorn flick, but I can't say I was blown away.  Lots of style, lacking on the substance.
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Offline Svevan

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2007, 02:31:26 PM »
There's no difference between substance and style.

Also, Bourne Identity sucks and I hate it. Bourne Supremacy is the masterpiece. Ultimatum, who knows?
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Offline Kairon

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2007, 02:37:51 PM »
WHAT... Svevan... doesn't like Identity but likes Supremacy... I... I must re-evaluate my life... /cry
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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:it depends on the day
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2007, 04:55:57 PM »
I don't think it sucks but it is just a compentant action/spy film. The Bourne Identity isn't going to blow you away or anything. It's just a good entry point into the series. Actually, when you watch the next two movies, the Bourne Identity comes across as tame. The car chase is just a standard car chase and not that exciting. The fights are ok and Clive Owen is good but it doesn't have the same mood and feel as the next two movies. I thknk that's the big key to the Bourne movies. The plot isn't going to be some huge intricate web of deciet. It's usually pretty simple to follow. But it's the atmosphere and mood the latter two movies create that make them so good. Plus, the soundtrack gets better. I listen to the Bourne Supremacy soundtrack a lot.

It's like the Spiderman movies. I don't care much for the first Spiderman movie except for a couple parts but Spiderman 2 blew me away it was so much better. You gots ta try Supremacy now and see what you think.
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Offline wandering

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RE:it depends on the day
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2007, 05:36:40 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
At the risk of getting flamed, can someone tell me what was so great about Master And Commander?  I thought it was shot very well, but the story went nowhere and Russel Crowe was overacting almost as much as he was in Gladiator.  I walked away feeling very bitter.

I agree with Robert Altman's opinion of story - which is to say, I don't think it's very important.

Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
My personal favorite movie will probably be my favorite movie 'til the day I die...

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade...Nothing else comes close in my list...

Raiders was better.

My favorite films are 2001: A Space Odyssey and The Lord of the Rings trilogy. Both works have similar strengths. They're both good at communicating complex concepts through visuals. The creators of both have a keen eye for detail. And both do a great job of making you feel like you're in another time and place.
 
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Offline Athrun Zala

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RE:it depends on the day
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2007, 05:57:50 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
There's no difference between substance and style.
bold statement... care to explain why?
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:it depends on the day
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2007, 06:00:32 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Raiders was better.

Incorrect, though Raiders is still an amazing movie in my top 10 for sure...
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Offline IceCold

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2007, 06:44:25 PM »
Tastes like a well-disguised poll to me..
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Offline Svevan

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RE:it depends on the day
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2007, 12:15:32 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
There's no difference between substance and style.
bold statement... care to explain why?

The substance and style dichotomy (also called form and content) seeks to divide art into "what" and "how," as if each artwork is a personal statement that needs interpreting in order to find the meaning. These three words are overused in art (by me too!). We believe people make works of art not for the sake of aesthetics but for their meanings. The problem is our definition of "aesthetics" and our definition of "form." In film, is form the way a shot is composed? What about the content of the shot? What about the dialogue and the meaning of the words? Or the concept of "murder" or "adultery" or "responsibility" or "sex" or any of the many themes of any film? Which of these is form and which is content?

Our problem is that we want there to be a meaning to all the formal elements, a single statement of opinion that is the thesis, the reason the work of art exists at all. But do we enjoy films for their social consciousness, or their deep-minded ideas? Why do we enjoy films at all? Is enjoying a film wrong? No, not at all, if it is a good film, like The Bourne Supremacy. In that film we have a character faced with moral choices in the film, but even if he DIDN'T the movie would still be superb because of its formal elements, which in the end are its content too. To repeat that confusing sentence, the form of The Bourne Supremacy IS its content. There is no separation - the division is something we do unfairly to the work, as though The Bourne Supremacy is a film that should have been about something, but wasn't. We pretend it is a collection of shots that are exciting to us, but that excitement does not qualify as "content" because it is not a "statement."

Interpretation as a concept adds something extra to a film; it is not the film. Interpretation treats any film or artwork as an unfinished piece that must be "completed" by "solving" it. Instead of this idea, we must admit that films are not statements, and the pure joy or disgust or fear we feel because of art, or the ideas we think about, or any other thing that happens as a result of the art's many elements all make up the "meaning" (if we have to use that word) of the movie. No single statement sums up a movie. Someone asks me what a movie is about and I could talk for ages. Ask me what the point, what the movie was saying, I'd say it says nothing. (I also believe that art stirs up a lot of questions and answer nothing. If art answered questions we'd all make movies instead of writing message board posts.) This is all a long way to say that "meanings" are the same as "themes" which are included in "aesthetics."

Same with paintings. Mona Lisa? Tribute Money (which I talked about in a blog recently)? Last Supper? The David? Jackson Pollock, Piet Mondrian, Pablo Picasso? The interplay between the "story" of these works of art and their specific artistic methods is so complex, I could hardly call the "story" or the "subject" of any painting the "content." A painting of Jesus could never just be a stylistic look at "Jesus," at least no more or no less than any other painting of Jesus. Form and content are the same thing, and the words ought to be redefined forever. The moral choices of characters in a film are just as "aesthetic" as the camera movements or color choices. All of these aesthetics are the reason movies (and art) exist.

So substance is a non-thing: style is substance. Style is the point of everything, because style is perspective. An artist puts something on canvas, on paper, on celluloid to show it, first and foremost. As a result, "agenda" films and others that add up only to simplistic "statements" are mostly worthless.

Most of these ideas come from a great art critic, Susan Sontag. Her other controversial idea is that there is no division between the aesthetic and the moral.

Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
Tastes like a well-disguised poll to me..

I just wanted to talk about Peter Weir more, and find out what people thought of Master and Commander. Oh look:

Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
At the risk of getting flamed, can someone tell me what was so great about Master And Commander?  I thought it was shot very well, but the story went nowhere and Russel Crowe was overacting almost as much as he was in Gladiator.  I walked away feeling very bitter.

Good point about story, wandering; we must approach each film on its own merits, and Master and Commander certainly lets its story build and does not give it an appropriate ending. The films aesthetic concerns are ship life and the relationship between the doctor and the captain, and how each of these impacts the war and each individual battle. The beauty of the film is not in finding out what happens next, but watching it happen. I wish we could see the end of the story, but I know that if we did follow the Surprise to its next battle only more plots would arise and there would be more to see and the story wouldn't end.

Perhaps that's a complicated way to say that it's fun to watch, but it is also challenging, filled with characters who are real and have complex thoughts. It is sometimes brutal to watch, yet it has a soft humor. The Galapagos Islands look gorgeous and inspire the best parts of the film, when Bettany's doctor must sacrifice his scientific concerns so the Surprise can go on its next mission.

I love every minute of Master and Commander, and I only hope that upon second viewing (perhaps after seeing some other Weir; may I suggest The Last Wave, Witness, and Picnic at Hanging Rock?) it will reveal its many pleasures to you.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2007, 01:23:41 PM »
So Evan, you never seem to mention comedies. What comedies do you like? I assume you enjoy the silent era comedies like Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin?

Offline Svevan

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2007, 02:00:16 PM »
I love comedies.

Haven't seen enough Keaton, love City Lights by Chaplin. I used to be a big Wes Anderson fan, now I'm on the rocks and waiting for a time to reevaluate all of his work. I love when dark directors are funny, like David Cronenberg and A History of Violence, for instance.

As for straight comedy, Woody Allen's work is great, as is Spike Jonze, Francois Truffaut, Jim Jarmusch (in particular Coffee and Cigarettes and Dead Man), Federico Fellini, Pedro Almodovar, Pixar, certain Robert Altman (especially Gosford Park and The Player). Some one-shot comedies I've loved are American Splendor, Dr. Strangelove, The Graduate, Monster House, Shaun of the Dead, and Three Kings.

I think I talk about comedies, but I usually don't talk about them as comedies. I usually bring them up for some detail other than their humor, or their place in history or a director's ouevre. Comedy is (somewhat) subjective, but quality never is. Good movies that are funny may lose their laugh-out-loud humor over time, but they will never stop being delightfully funny. Comedy is never worse off than when it is removed from a real world context and treats its characters as set-ups for gags.

edit: sorry for the on/off bolding - lists of movies rarely make sense without demarcation.    
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Offline wandering

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RE: it depends on the day
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2007, 09:40:42 PM »
I have a question for you, Evan. Why is art important? Is it so important that the amount of time and money we spend on it is justified? Wouldn't it have been better, if the hundreds of millions of dollars that went towards making the Lord of the Rings movies, had gone instead towards helping people who are starving and suffering?
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:it depends on the day
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2007, 10:07:57 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
I have a question for you, Evan. Why is art important? Is it so important that the amount of time and money we spend on it is justified? Wouldn't it have been better, if the hundreds of millions of dollars that went towards making the Lord of the Rings movies, had gone instead towards helping people who are starving and suffering?


Evan hates the LOTR movies, so he wouldn't have minded if it went to poor people. Also I may be off but I have a feeling that Evan doesn't like low brow stuff.
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