Something is rotten in the state of hell.
Bayonetta might sound a bit different in Bayonetta 3, and according to the original voice of the Umbral Witch, it's intentional.
Hellena Taylor - who has voiced Bayonetta in the original two games, an anime adaptation, and in the last three Smash Bros. games - posted on her social media this morning that she would not reprise the role in Bayonetta 3 after being offered US$4000 for the role as a final offer. Taylor is calling for a boycott of the game - with the funds donated to charity - as a result.
Prolific voice actress Jennifer Hale (Naomi Hunter in the Metal Gear Solid series, the female Shepherd in the original Mass Effect trilogy, uncredited work as Samus Aran) is providing Bayonetta's voice for Bayonetta 3.
For comparison, the standard union rate for voice acting as "additional voices" is $200/hr with a four hour minimum. Nintendo and developer Platinum Games have not commented on the situation.
Friends, Worldlings, Bayonutters. Hear ye!#PlatinumGames #Nintendo #Bayonetta #Bayonetta3 #Bayonutters #Boycott #NintendoEurope #NintendoAmerica #NintendoJapan pic.twitter.com/h9lwiX2bBt
— Hellena Taylor (@hellenataylor) October 15, 2022
Experienced video game voice actors will receive $200 to $350 an hour or $50 to $200 per 100 words for their video game voice acting work.
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However, typically, video game voice actors will receive between $200 and $350 per hour, with a minimum of two to four hours guaranteed per job.
Video Games Non-union: $200-$350/hr (2 or 4 hour min)
Full Buyout Rate. Vocally stressful sessions should be limited to 2-hour sessions. Common per session rate you may see is $500 for 1hr max session.
Video Games Union: $825.50/session (up to 4hr session)
Vocally stressful sessions should be limited to 2-hour sessions.
This is sad and bizarre. Sad because of such a dirt-ball offer for the main character in the third game. Bizarre because I can't imagine that freaking Jennifer Hale would take that pay. Then again, I don't know anything, so maybe Hale was okay with that pay and can knock out the job quick.Jennifer Hale is a more prolific voice actor so I can't imagine she'd take a pay cut. I wonder if Nintendo/PlatinumGames was willing to pay Hale her asking price due to her industry standing but not Taylor (which would be gross).
It sucks what happened to her, but that's not going to make me boycott what looks to be a pretty awesome game. At the end of the day the gameplay is what comes first. I'll just set the voices to Japanese when I play the game so that way I won't have to feel guilty every time I hear Bayonetta talk, since her Japanese voice is still the same woman who voiced her in the previous games.LOL, that's farther than I was willing to go.
And Nintendo historically just waits out controversy until it just goes away. This happens all the time. I still think we should be angrier that Nintendo copyright strikes YouTube channels that uploads Nintendo music yet won't offer the soundtracks on streaming let alone sell them internationally themselves. I understand the concept of protecting its IP, but like, y'all won't even let me pay you for the ability to listen to the music.
From Video Game Voice Actors: How Much Do They Get Paid? (https://performerlife.com/video-game-voice-actors/)QuoteExperienced video game voice actors will receive $200 to $350 an hour or $50 to $200 per 100 words for their video game voice acting work.
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However, typically, video game voice actors will receive between $200 and $350 per hour, with a minimum of two to four hours guaranteed per job.
From the "Video Games / Toys, Games, & Mobile Game Apps" section on Global Voice Academy (https://globalvoiceacademy.com/gvaa-rate-guide-2/) (I cleaned this up because the info is in a table on the website)QuoteVideo Games Non-union: $200-$350/hr (2 or 4 hour min)
Full Buyout Rate. Vocally stressful sessions should be limited to 2-hour sessions. Common per session rate you may see is $500 for 1hr max session.
I'm not gonna boycott a game just because someone was bitter over getting fired. She doesn't like the pay they offered? Fine, she doesn't have to take it. But that is no reason to not buy the game and this is very unprofessional of her. I actually wasn't planning to buy the game, but I might buy it now just to spite her.
To be frank, her response comes off as incredibly unprofessional, and the more I hear of her the more I understand why Platinum recast the role. Setting aside her coming out of her own accord to likely shred an NDA she certainly signed, she provides no proof of her claims as she defames her former employer.
Setting aside her coming out of her own accord to likely shred an NDA she certainly signed, she provides no proof of her claims as she defames her former employer. I have no doubt that Platinum cuts corners wherever they can, but without proof I'm inclined to believe Kamiya on this one.A woman claims bad faith negotiations, and you're demanding proof? Do I really have to explain how problematic that is?
This video comes off as a rant from an entitled actor who's pissed that she didn't get a part, something you would think someone her age would be beyond at this point.Taylor got the part. Her issue is the rate of pay. She stated the original offer was insulting without mentioning how much that actually was. Here's the thing: we can still extrapolate some details here, assuming she was offered the lead role again. Taylor is a union actress and Bayonetta 3 is a union production. The minimum a union actor can be paid is ~$975 per session of up to four hours and three characters, meaning they get paid the same for four hours or two (fewer hours likely involves a lot of DBZ-esque screaming). In a 2018 interview, Taylor stated Bayonetta 1 took four sessions and 16 total hours.
I personally find the pay rates for actors disgustingly too high in entertainment even if VAs are at the bottom compared to other actors. She's making well over double what the nameless unknown programmers who are actually making the game make; who work 28hr days, sleep in theirIt's easy to say that about actors until you hear a bad one. Acting is an art not everyone has the talent, skills, or training for. By your own admission, you switch to the Japanese track. Now imagine if this happened to any Japanese cast. And my understanding is seiyuu are celebrities in Japan. This nonsense would never fly over there.cagescubicals, and have long since forgotten what soap smells like let alone their family.
A woman claims bad faith negotiations, and you're demanding proof? Do I really have to explain how problematic that is?
Taylor could release the email from Kamiya. We really should be past this though. She has nothing to gain from this besides shedding light on a decades old problem.
This matter is something that Taylor should have kept behind closed doors. She has a union and probably an agent that handles situations like this on her behalf.
Even though I feel bad for Taylor, I do have to wonder why she hasn't done any voice work in 8 years. It's kind of like how some times there's actors that were all over TV and movies for a few years and then just disappeared. Then you read years later this person was so difficult to work with eventually all the studio's had enough.
According to her website, Hellena Taylor previously lived in Los Angeles but moved to London. If you want English voice work, you live in Los Angeles; New York; or Austin/Houston Texas. You don't live in the United Kingdom. I suspect her unwillingness to live near production studios has a lot to do with how little work she's done. Some productions will go the extra mile to get a voice actor they really like to do remote work (such as the case with her 1 episode role of Hellsing Ultimate, a dub that had several UK actors), as a lot of high-profile voice actors have their own personal recording studio, but most of the time you have to live where the work is.
https://hellenataylor.co.uk/bio/ (https://hellenataylor.co.uk/bio/)
According to her website, Hellena Taylor previously lived in Los Angeles but moved to London. If you want English voice work, you live in Los Angeles; New York; or Austin/Houston Texas. You don't live in the United Kingdom. I suspect her unwillingness to live near production studios has a lot to do with how little work she's done. Some productions will go the extra mile to get a voice actor they really like to do remote work (such as the case with her 1 episode role of Hellsing Ultimate, a dub that had several UK actors), as a lot of high-profile voice actors have their own personal recording studio, but most of the time you have to live where the work is.
https://hellenataylor.co.uk/bio/ (https://hellenataylor.co.uk/bio/)
If she lives in the UK, she should have tried getting a role in the Xenoblade games. NOE must pay pretty good if they were able to get Jenna Coleman to come back and voice Melia again for the Future Connect part of Xenoblade: Definitive Edition a few years ago. I doubt she would come back for only $4000.
Even Xenoblade hasn't been altogether consistent when it comes to localization. 1, 1 DE, 2, and 3 all used British actors at NoE...but X used American voice actors with 8-4 Ltd.
I don't see the "bad faith negotiation" here. In Taylor's scenario and using your math, Platinum wanted to hire her, so they made an offer that complied with Union standards.Actors with Taylor's experience are not offered the minimum union fee for lead roles, and in this instance, one they've held for over a decade. Everything about that was done in bad faith.
Yes, I am asking for proof of her allegations, something I would also ask for if someone like Troy Baker had made a similar claim. This is a business negotiation, not a sexual assault claim. She could provide a copy of the offer contract likely in her possession.Sheesh. Where to even begin? You demand proof from Taylor yet are "inclined to believe Kamiya on this one" when his response *checks notes* didn't provide any proof refuting Taylor's claims. You're not even attempting to be objective about this.
This matter is something that Taylor should have kept behind closed doors. She has a union and probably an agent that handles situations like this on her behalf. Development costs are rising across the board, and everyone has less money than ever thanks to sky-rocketing inflation. She didn't help her career and she certainly didn't help her fellow voice actors by putting all this into the public eye in such an unprofessional and, frankly, petulant manner.1. Why? That's how this and other industries got so bad in the first place. Corporations don't want this out in the public so they can continue low-balling talent.
Incidentally, I noticed you side-stepped her comments on Jennifer Hale, which also wouldn't win her any favors with her colleagues and prospective employers.No, I simply disagreed with your assessment while understanding that it's possible to have different interpretations. If you truly believe in your bones that Taylor was being unprofessional, well, I'm not here to argue with you over it. I am, however, willing to give Taylor some leeway when talking about a situation she's obviously still emotionally raw about. My reading of Taylor's statement was how strongly she feels about her personal contributions to Bayonetta rather than aggression toward Hale who Taylor even wished well. Had she straight up said, "Yo, **** Jennifer Hale!" I'd sing a different tune.
Even though I feel bad for Taylor, I do have to wonder why she hasn't done any voice work in 8 years.Taylor is primarily a stage actor. She was living in Los Angeles and likely received a casting call for someone who has or can do a British accent. In a gig industry, you often have to take the auditions that are available to you.
Not saying that's the case here, but people need to be careful about just taking one person at their word, since we don't know if Taylor is telling us the whole story. Especially when I see so many post on other sites and Twitter saying **** Nintendo for be so cheap, when in reality Hale is probably costing way more then Taylor would have. Someone with the resume of Hale certainly has an agent and that agent isn't agreeing to the union minimum when she can easily get larger roles that pay better.That's fair. I am more than willing to hear different perspectives, and I reserve the right to adjust my thoughts as more information is presented. Currently, in my view, it's important to consider who has more to gain here: an actor making a claim that aligns with countless stories about gig work, or corporations that have and want to continue taking advantage of workers.
Actors with Taylor's experience are not offered the minimum union fee for lead roles, and in this instance, one they've held for over a decade. Everything about that was done in bad faith.
Sheesh. Where to even begin? You demand proof from Taylor yet are "inclined to believe Kamiya on this one" when his response *checks notes* didn't provide any proof refuting Taylor's claims. You're not even attempting to be objective about this.
And this is, in fact, not a business negotiation. It's a woman airing her grievances about an industry that attempts to takes advantage of people at every turn and a company she feels disrespected her, both in the hopes that it will help her colleagues get better working conditions.
1. Why? That's how this and other industries got so bad in the first place. Corporations don't want this out in the public so they can continue low-balling talent.
Additionally, your assertion that Taylor's comments wouldn't win any favors with her colleagues doesn't track with the responses from industry vets who have largely corroborated her statement that $4000 was a lowball offer (https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1581326645595553794) and/or shared similar stories about their own careers (https://twitter.com/BryanDechart/status/1581326079091802113). Since you're all Proofy McEvidence over here, do you want to back up your claims?
"Her experience?" WHAT experience?Taylor has been acting for 30 years. In that first Twitter clip, she detailed over seven years of training. She's had numerous lead roles including and especially Bayonetta, a performance she has been praised for. We currently don't know how much Taylor considered to be fair compensation to reprise the role, only that the offers she recieved were so close to the minimum union fee she was insulted by them. With three decades of acting experience under her belt, she should never be offered the minimum union fee for a lead role. Her IMDB voice credits are irrelevant here. What did you think she was going between those IMDB credits?
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You mentioned she has stage experience, so I'll concede that, but just going by her IMDB she is a minor-tier voice actor at best and seems to be quite content not pursuing voice-over roles besides Bayonetta.
since you asked I'm inclined to side with Kamiya (despite the lack of proof on his end) because the man has no filter and he has very little reason to lie about this.Seriously? As a founder and current employee of PlatinumGames, Kamiya has every reason to lie about this.
That said, he is not the accuser in this situation. Taylor is. The burden of proof is on her.A little over a week ago, Bayonetta 3 director, Yusuke Miyata, stated (https://www.ign.com/articles/bayonetta-voice-actress-replaced-by-mass-effects-jennifer-hale): "Various overlapping circumstances made it difficult for Hellena Taylor to reprise her role."
The situation she was discussing was literally a business negotiation.I'm being pedantic, but these clauses don't make sense together: "This is a business negotiation, not a sexual assault claim." Why would a sexual assault claim be compared against the payment negotiations themselves rather than Taylor's claims that PlatinumGames disrespected her and conducted those negotiations in bad faith?
The low pay that Voice Actors accept for their roles is not the industry secret you apparently think it isDon't put words in my mouth. I've said repeatedly it's a problem, not a secret. The unfair treatment is known and documented yet nothing has been done about it. Considering how much this story blew up, the average person clearly did not know about this so it's good that this is getting some traction. That was one of the main reasons for Taylor speaking up.
I was specifically referring to Taylor's comments about Hale not winning her any favors with her colleagues, not the failed negotiation altogether.Sure, and I replied that Taylor's colleagues have so far focused on her main points about being disrespected and lowballed which implies to me that they did not read into her comments the same way you are. Again, feel free to back up your claims if you really believe Taylor's colleagues took umbrage about any references to Hale.
With three decades of acting experience under her belt, she should never be offered the minimum union fee for a lead role. Her IMDB voice credits are irrelevant here. What did you think she was going between those IMDB credits?
So no, there was no reason to just assume she was doing theater acting during the large gaps in her IMDB listing, especially since trying to find her theatrical biography online appears to be somewhat difficult. Even the Bayonetta Wiki lists roles without a timeline or cited references.What's there to assume? You literally posted a link to Taylor's website which has her CV on it.
https://hellenataylor.co.uk/bio/ (https://hellenataylor.co.uk/bio/)
So no, there was no reason to just assume she was doing theater acting during the large gaps in her IMDB listing, especially since trying to find her theatrical biography online appears to be somewhat difficult. Even the Bayonetta Wiki lists roles without a timeline or cited references.What's there to assume? You literally posted a link to Taylor's website which has her CV on it.https://hellenataylor.co.uk/bio/ (https://hellenataylor.co.uk/bio/)
Once again, there are no dates on that page, and the details are slim. Like, I know from the Bayonetta Wiki what her "Guest Star" appearance on Stargate Atlantis was as, but that's not listed here. How many episodes was she in? What season of Atlantis was the episode(s) in? How long did she play these various theatrical roles, and when were the shows playing?Dude, all five people left on the forums can see what you're doing here. You don't need the dates; you're moving the goalposts again. You have repeatedly dismissed the most important detail about the payment claim: Hellena Taylor has three lead credits in the Bayonetta IP alone. Full stop. That on its own should put her out of the conversation for a near-minimum union fee. I linked to a game director, J.E. Sawyer (https://www.giantbomb.com/je-sawyer/3040-25518/), going on record to state he has never seen this kind of lowballing for a protagonist role in two decades for union AND non-union voice actors. That was still not good enough. Sure, a company legally CAN offer the minimum union fee to veteran actors; that is NOT common practice.
Now, this is a CV not a wiki so just having vague information listed is somewhat expected, but you can't just point to that page and say "well that explains all the gaps in her IMDB history". Because as far as as that page is concerned, those roles could be 2 years ago or 40 years ago. And I fondly remember the role of "Lead" in Barcelona, but it just couldn't compare to the tour de force that was "Day Player" in The Sweetest Thing. ;)
Her CV Voiceover page is at least far more detailed when it comes to the names of the roles and the nature of them, though it's still largely lacking in dates.
She's played mostly one character with very little vocal range for a minor series from a failing developer in a handful of projects for 13 years.You want to clutch your pearls about Taylor supposedly throwing shade at Hale but also insult Taylor and diminish her talent, skill, training, accomplishments, and body of work to what, try to prove a point (badly, I might add). surejan.gif
Jennifer Hale is one of the few voice actors that has some name value. She almost certainly would command a higher wage than what Taylor claims to have been offered. I wonder if they wanted to go with Hale and making a low ball offer to Taylor was their way to "fire" her in a way where there was still the appearance of trying to continue with the same actor and they can claim that negotiations didn't work out.I've seen this take, and I don't buy it. If this was Jennifer Lawrence, sure. You can market that casting because the general public knows who she is. Hale isn't earning the game more sales, and only voice actor nerds like me care about the casting. Grey DeLisle portrayed Jeanne in the series, and she's just as prolific as Hale.
What if they didn't even approach her for an offer and just went to a different actor? Would she call for a boycott then?Most likely not. Taylor's issue isn't that they hired another actor as she stated in one of the Twitter clips that she had to audition for the role because people's voices change after years. There was always a possibility during the whole casting process that she could be replaced. According to her, she passed the audition, won the role again, then PlatinumGames lowballed her pay. She only spoke out after Bayonetta 3's director made a deliberately vague if not straight up dishonest statement about why she didn't reprise the role. It's like, guys, just don't do that last part, and this would have went away almost immediately.
Dude, all five people left on the forums can see what you're doing here. You don't need the dates; you're moving the goalposts again. You have repeatedly dismissed the most important detail about the payment claim: Hellena Taylor has three lead credits in the Bayonetta IP alone. Full stop.
Full disclosure: I saw this post last night, and I waited 18 hours to see if you'd edit it and address more than three cherryicked sentences in my previous-previous post. Nothing. At this point, I can only surmise that you were forced to confront your own biases and flawed logic, decided you didn't want to do that, then pounced on the part you could continue moving the goalpost on.
*miscellaneous ranting, etc.*
You want to clutch your pearls about Taylor supposedly throwing shade at Hale but also insult Taylor and diminish her talent, skill, training, accomplishments, and body of work to what, try to prove a point (badly, I might add). surejan.gif
That said, it is clear that you are not approaching this discussion with any notion of good faith or objectivity. This has been yet another painful reminder of why I don't stop the forums as often.
The only exception to this is if Hellena is lying about why she isn't in Bayonetta 3 and we will likely never know if this is the case so for now I'm inclined to believe there is some truth in her statements but at the same time to take it with a grain of salt. I definitely think calling out Jennifer Hale in her whole thing and saying that she has "no right" to sign merchandise as Bayonetta even though she's voicing the character for Bayonetta 3 was unnecessary either way and distracts from the rest of her statement. It just comes off as a bit toxic on her part and that isn't what her statements needed.
One thing I do want to stress is that you and I have always agreed that voice actors should be paid more than they are. Taylor's story just never made sense to me.That's fair. It made sense to me mainly because I've seen worse with my own eyes, straight up clients asking for free labor in exchange for the "exposure". That **** can GTFOH. Pay the talent.