Author Topic: Future Mafia Games  (Read 413500 times)

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Offline vudu

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #75 on: March 17, 2009, 02:53:43 PM »
But yes, this does open up a lot of doors, and I'm not quite sure exactly how much it throws the game out of balance.   That's why I wanted some suggestions from you guys.

I think it would work just fine, but you need to make sure that Jekyll and Hyde have at least a decent chance of winning.  I think they'll be a bit underpowered at it stands in your original post.  I like my suggestion for adding to the Hyde role, but it's just that--a suggestion.  It's your game, so do what you want.  :)
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #76 on: March 17, 2009, 02:54:37 PM »
And if the role of Hyde is as a killer, doesn't that effectively give the mafia 2 hits a night?

I really like the idea of only Hyde OR Jekyll getting a night action.
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #77 on: March 17, 2009, 03:01:35 PM »
Here's a thought - Jekyll can kill a townie at night, and Hyde can kill a mafia member at night, but only either or.  So they both kind of split the role of the vigilante.  If Jekyll hits a townie by mistake then Hyde is discovered and outed to the rest of the mafia.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #78 on: March 17, 2009, 03:02:44 PM »
It would give the mafia two hits a night if the mafia "teamed up" with Hyde.  However, Hyde and the rest of the mafia don't have the same win conditions.  Hyde eventually needs to kill the rest of the mafia to win, and the mafia needs to do the same for Hyde.  I envision a beautiful game where the Godfather eventually starts killing his own henchmen, hoping to find Hyde.  ;D  It's even better if Hyde himself becomes Godfather.

But just as easily the Godfather could accidentally kill Jekyll on the first night and kill Hyde in the process.  There's so much luck/randomness in these games that it's hard to predict what will actually happen.  The most balanced game in the history of mafia can be ruined on day one if a couple of key players die (it's happened before!).
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Offline vudu

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #79 on: March 17, 2009, 03:04:13 PM »
Here's a thought - Jekyll can kill a townie at night, and Hyde can kill a mafia member at night, but only either or.  So they both kind of split the role of the vigilante.  If Jekyll hits a townie by mistake then Hyde is discovered and outed to the rest of the mafia.

I think there's a typo in there.

Either way, assuming Jekyll and Hyde know of each other, they'll share information, so no one will accidentally kill someone on the "wrong" side.
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #80 on: March 17, 2009, 03:07:38 PM »
Hmm... you're right.  I messed up on that one.  I meant if Jekyll hits a mafia member by mistake.  And you're right, the only way that could happen is if one of them isn't paying enough attention. 

I like the way this is going. 

Should I post all of my roles and setup in the signup thread if I already have it ready to go?  (I don't, but I'm not that far off)
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Offline vudu

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #81 on: March 17, 2009, 03:29:57 PM »
As soon as you're ready I say go for it.  It's been a couple weeks since the last game ended.

If you want feedback from us (and believe me, we're not shy to give criticism if we feel the game will be imbalanced) go ahead and post the roles.  If you'd rather play your cards close to your chest, no need to spills the beans yet.
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2009, 03:33:52 PM »
I'll leave out the context I've written up, but here are the roles I'm looking at:

Townie:
Investigator, Doctor, Saint (being voted out kills whoever started the bandwagon), Vote Changer

Mafia:
Godfather, Liar/Framer (Can make one person appear guilty to investigator per night)

Other:
Bomber, Jekyll/Hyde

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Offline decoyman

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #83 on: March 17, 2009, 03:49:41 PM »
For the Saint, what if the bandwagon-starter changes his/her (hi GP!) vote? Does he/she (hi!) still die even though that person's vote didn't ultimately go towards the person who died?

I think "yes," but that's just my opinion. I've never seen that role (bomber liteâ„¢) used before...
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2009, 03:57:08 PM »
I would say that changing your vote saves you, but I'd be open to discussion on that.  It saves you from the bomber, so if you're going to think of the Saint as "bomber-lite" then I'd think it apply there as well.
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Offline decoyman

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2009, 04:04:52 PM »
You forgot the â„¢.

But yeah, I see your point. My point is that, all the people who got conned into voting for this person because so-and-so started a bandwagon, they'd form a mob in real-life and go after the person who started the bandwagon, right?

Unlike the bomber, where the idea is that the people who vote for him are the ones who go out to lynch him, and then he's all like, "Gotcha!" KABLOOIE and they die.

I'm trying to think about it in "real-life" terms because I don't know what the logic was behind the role's original inception.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2009, 04:06:49 PM »
I'd like to throw out my vote to discard the Bomber role.  In every game we've played with the role, the Bomber always causes people to vote infrequently and safely.  Many people just use throw-away votes just to ensure they're still participating but not in any real danger of dying.  (Last game we nearly had an 8-way tie--1 vote each!)  Especially if you'd adding the Saint role, there's no need for the Bomber.  I'd much rather see a Killer or something else that causes trouble without the potential to take out half the game in a single night.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2009, 04:12:13 PM »
Drew couldn't the Mafia use that to their advantage. Also of note is there is a bomber so the person could just use the excuse of "I don't want to get blowed up."
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2009, 04:13:45 PM »
Drew couldn't the Mafia use that to their advantage.

Use what, exactly?  Explain.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2009, 04:21:28 PM »
The not getting kicked off in regards to the saint.
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2009, 04:22:56 PM »
Oh, okay.  Yeah, I think they definitely could use it to their advantage. 

The only problem I can see with killing off the first person who voted for the Saint EVEN IF they change their vote is keeping track of who that is - if they edit their post, then it's awfully tricky to keep track of.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2009, 04:29:00 PM »
Well you just gotta make a rule if they edit their post you have to have them keep who they voted for originally.
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Offline decoyman

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #92 on: March 17, 2009, 04:29:38 PM »
I wouldn't worry about that too much... mafia threads are high-traffic areas, so probably several people will know.

But you could always make the rule that if you change your vote, you have to make your vote in a new post and leave your old post alone (except for unbolding your vote). I think we're a trustworthy-enough group to do it this way.

edit: What Maxi said. :P
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #93 on: March 18, 2009, 02:01:13 PM »
Fair enough.  I like it that way better, as long as everyone is upfront about changing their votes. 
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #94 on: March 18, 2009, 02:20:33 PM »
I've made a few adjustments.

One: The Godfather must specify which mafia member is making the hit.  This comes into play because...

Two: Only the original Godfather himself can put a hit on The Investigator.  If any of the other Mafia members attempt to hit The Investigator, they will die instead.  This means that The Investigator cannot be killed by the Mafia after the Godfather is taken out.  The Investigator CAN still be killed by...

Three: ...the Jekyll & Hyde roles, which now both can kill, just not both in the same night.  They can only turn against each other - Hyde against he Mafia, and Jekyll against the Townies. 


Also, I will omit the Bomber unless we have a sizable amount of players.

Speaking of which, what qualifies as a sizable amount of players, and how many should I shoot to put in the Mafia?
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #95 on: March 18, 2009, 02:46:25 PM »
The rule I generally follow is to have half the people playing as townies. For mafia members, I usually go with a quarter of the people playing as mafia. This can vary. Take my James Bond mafia, which had 16 players. 8 were townies, 4 were mafia, 3 were townie roles and there was a killer. That seemed to strike a good balance. That is one way to figure out the number of roles.

Another good way is to look at it from the mafia perspective. If everything goes right for the mafia and they don't lose a member, how many days would it take for them to win? If the answer is short like 2 or 3 days, you probably have too many mafia roles. 5 Days is usually the sweet spot. 7 days means you might not have enough mafia since it's hard to imagine a mafia lasting 7 days without a loss to win.

So, with those keys in mind, you should be able to come up with a fairly balanced game. As much as last game may have seemed overpowered in the mafia's favor, you have to remember, the townies always a had chance for victory which is pretty amazing considering how badly things seemed to be going for them. That's a sign of a balanced game.

At the same time, as Vudu said, even the most balanced game can be undone by the first couple days. It's part of the fun of mafia. That random element which can change the entire balance in a single day. So, if it becomes lopsided for one side, don't feel too bad. It happens. Just do what you can to make it fair and then manage the chaos.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 08:20:37 PM by Khushrenada »
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #96 on: March 18, 2009, 02:51:41 PM »
Alright, sounds good.  I'm going to go post the signup thread in the Funhouse.
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #97 on: April 01, 2009, 11:34:32 AM »
I'd like to put my name back on the list for sometime in the future with Super MAFIA Bros 2 (Doki Doki Mafia).
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Offline decoyman

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #98 on: April 01, 2009, 11:43:35 AM »
And I'd like to try my hand at hosting again too... but with a very, very simple/barebones, traditional mafia game, supplemented by a dark, detective noir storyline. (ie, Just one detective for the townies, no doctor, no vigilante, no roles other than Townie and Mafia). I'd be curious to see how a "pure" mafia experience like that goes over.

Even though there'd be no roles other than the one cop, I'd hope people would roleplay this one. Maybe with less rules/roles to worry about, we'd get a little town started. Perhaps there's a barkeep, a roustabout, a blue-collar-type, a drunk, a lounge singer, etc. Whatever people want. I think that'd be pretty cool.
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Future Mafia Games
« Reply #99 on: April 01, 2009, 11:47:55 AM »
I thought about doing something like that for my first game, just to get my feet wet, but then I saw the opportunity for the SMB themed game and went that route instead.

I suggest you listen to a few episodes of Mace Detective: Private Detective to get in the mood.
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