Topic: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?

[Kairon]

What will be considered a classic will be the games that Video Gaming Opinion Eds ten years from now will put on their "Best Games of All Time" lists.

I agree. But some people seem to have knowledge of the future.

[ejamer]

I don't want to get into the discussion of what makes a video a "classic" because I'm pretty sure the whole thing is just a lame troll attempt.

I will say that the definition doesn't really matter anyway: being deemed a "classic" or not doesn't matter when talking about games of overwhelming quality that deserve to get played.  Many of my favorite older games right now aren't "classics", but are high quality games that remain incredibly fun to play and are worth going back to. Others are simply nostalgic throwbacks that I experienced with friends in my youth and have fond memories of.  Some are critical darlings that were largely missed on release but have since built up a cult status. A few were instant hits that maintained that popularity ever since they were first released.  But I still go back and enjoy all of them - so what difference does it make which are "classics"?

Wii has games that fit all of the descriptions I listed above... so whether they end up being "classics" by your narrow definition or not, they are games that will be worth playing again and again for years to come.  More to the point, every console has at least a couple of these games - even failed systems like Virtual Boy, Sega Saturn, or 3DO.


This is all off-topic though.  The question is which is better: Wii or GameCube.  If you are arguing that GameCube has more "classic" games then offer some support for the console you prefer instead of just spewing junk about the one you don't like as much.

[marty]

I said that Nintendo stopped making classic games by the time the Wii came out, that's why GCN is the better system.  I stand by that statement.  Nintendo's Wii games are going to serve as the benchmark for a quality game in 10 years? Not a chance. 


The flow of responses is just f___ing sad at this point.


Sooo.... Evan_b and Kairon are just going to listen to whatever anyone on an unnamed gamer site tells them is a good game and mindlessly agree.  Luigi dude apparently can't understand english because he thinks I said that sales=classic despite never having said anything of the sort, the troll.  ejamer thinks anyone with an opinion other than his must be trolling.  And insanolord thinks that pretty much any game that anyone ever liked is a classic--especially if it were an unpopular game on an unpopular Nintendo system that were to be voted for on a Nintendo-centric website as if that wasn't the lamest attempt to validate a weak, lame opinion.


like I said, F_ING SAD.

[ThePerm]

Im going to go with Gamecube, but Wii has the better Mario games, but by default Wii should win since its backwards compatible.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I would say that Nintendo's catalogue of games on Wii was better. Two Galaxy games, Metroid Prime Trilogy (which improved the gamecubes originals), Sin & Punishment 2, Xenoblade, DKCR, Epic Yarn, Punch Out!! Brawl etc.
 
The Wii definitely had some missteps (Other M and Skyward Sword) but overall the bredth and depth of the Wii's line-up was more enjoyable for me. Not to mention that the Virtual Console has given me hundreds of hours of enjoyment through an impressive library of classic games.

[Evan_B]

Sooo.... Evan_b and Kairon are just going to listen to whatever anyone on an unnamed gamer site tells them is a good game and mindlessly agree.  Luigi dude apparently can't understand english because he thinks I said that sales=classic despite never having said anything of the sort, the troll.  ejamer thinks anyone with an opinion other than his must be trolling.  And insanolord thinks that pretty much any game that anyone ever liked is a classic--especially if it were an unpopular game on an unpopular Nintendo system that were to be voted for on a Nintendo-centric website as if that wasn't the lamest attempt to validate a weak, lame opinion.


like I said, F_ING SAD.

Whatever, man. I buy games that I want to play- and I don't like Super Mario Galaxy that much, but I will admit it's quite a great platformer. I also buy Sonic the Hedgehog games despite the amount of reviews that suck. I buy games that I think I will enjoy, and if I don't- well, tough luck, I tried. But I can also see merit in a game. I also tend to go by my gut feeling, which is why I supported Operation Rainfall's message to localize a game like Xenoblade Chronicles- a game I had never played, yet, by looking at trailers, knew that I wanted to.

See, this entire time you haven't stated what YOU think makes a classic, unless I am to consider that you think "classics" are a benchmark of quality, ten years from now. And you know what? I'm gonna say yeah, a lot of Wii-exclusive Nintendo games will be remembered for their quality. You don't see random floating people in Skyward Sword or SMG, or odd glitches that break the game completely.

You should probably also wait about ten years before you say a game won't be remembered as a classic, either. But, that's the last time I'm going to talk to you directly, because you're jumping to conclusions about other people just so you can accuse them of being "sad", and that's not cool.

[ejamer]

...  ejamer thinks anyone with an opinion other than his must be trolling.  ...

I want to be very clear that many (maybe most?) people here have strongly held, different opinions than I do - but certainly aren't trolls or trolling.  They express a full opinion and back it up with well through-out reasons, and tend to support what they like instead of just bash what they don't.


There is one person who I feel needs to improve their rhetoric if they want to avoid a "troll" designation...  But please don't accuse me of saying everyone with a different opinion is a troll.

Did Phantasy Star Online have a single player mode, or was it only online?  My curiosity is growing, but I'm not willing to jump through any hoops (ie: tracking down a GameCube broadband adapter) to get online play working...

Single-player offline mode. Also, MULTIPLAYER OFFLINE mode with no need for a broadband adapter. It was very addictive.

Moving back to a happier topic:


I think you've sold me on this game. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!

[Kairon]

Sooo.... Evan_b and Kairon are just going to listen to whatever anyone on an unnamed gamer site tells them is a good game and mindlessly agree.

If we just listened to random people on unnamed gamer sites tell us which games are good and which games are classics, mindlessly agreeing with them as you say, don't you think you'd be having an easier time by now?

Did Phantasy Star Online have a single player mode, or was it only online?  My curiosity is growing, but I'm not willing to jump through any hoops (ie: tracking down a GameCube broadband adapter) to get online play working...

Single-player offline mode. Also, MULTIPLAYER OFFLINE mode with no need for a broadband adapter. It was very addictive.

Moving back to a happier topic:

I think you've sold me on this game. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!

 Haha! Have you ever played any PSO before?

[marty]

If we just listened to random people on unnamed gamer sites tell us which games are good and which games are classics, mindlessly agreeing with them as you say, don't you think you'd be having an easier time by now?

Easier time with what?  I gave my opinion and elaborated.  No one has refuted anything I said.  Disagreed with and/or complained and bitched about it?  yes. 

[Retro Deckades]

If I were to weigh in on this topic, I would probably start by comparing similar games across the two systems, starting with Nintendo's own franchises. Super Mario Sunshine vs. Super Mario Galaxy/Super Mario Galaxy 2? I prefer the latter. Wario World vs. Wario Land: Shake It!? Admittedly, two very different types of games, but I prefer Shake It!, hands down. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker vs. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword? In this case, I can exclude Twilight Princess, as it was released on both systems...

[Kairon]

If we just listened to random people on unnamed gamer sites tell us which games are good and which games are classics, mindlessly agreeing with them as you say, don't you think you'd be having an easier time by now?

Easier time with what?  I gave my opinion and elaborated.  No one has refuted anything I said.  Disagreed with and/or complained and bitched about it?  yes. 

Easier time with getting us to agree with you. But I'm cool with it if we're at the point where we all agree to disagree regarding your opinion about how the Wii had no classic games.

[NWR_insanolord]

I said that Nintendo stopped making classic games by the time the Wii came out, that's why GCN is the better system.  I stand by that statement.  Nintendo's Wii games are going to serve as the benchmark for a quality game in 10 years? Not a chance. 


The flow of responses is just f___ing sad at this point.


Sooo.... Evan_b and Kairon are just going to listen to whatever anyone on an unnamed gamer site tells them is a good game and mindlessly agree.  Luigi dude apparently can't understand english because he thinks I said that sales=classic despite never having said anything of the sort, the troll.  ejamer thinks anyone with an opinion other than his must be trolling.  And insanolord thinks that pretty much any game that anyone ever liked is a classic--especially if it were an unpopular game on an unpopular Nintendo system that were to be voted for on a Nintendo-centric website as if that wasn't the lamest attempt to validate a weak, lame opinion.


like I said, F_ING SAD.

If it's not people remembering it fondly and it's not sales, what are you arguing makes a game a classic? I suppose we should have done this a while ago, as the first step to any debate should be defining your terms.

[ejamer]

...

...
Moving back to a happier topic:

I think you've sold me on [Phantasy Star Online I & II for GameCube]. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!

 Haha! Have you ever played any PSO before?

No, but the game sounds interesting enough from the Wikipedia description. The fact that I can even play offline multiplayer mode (assuming I can round up a few friends) is also very appealing.  Many online-enabled games today seem to depend completely on access to servers to be "worth playing", sometimes I wonder how many great experiences will be lost for future generations once those servers are no longer available.

[Kairon]

...

...
Moving back to a happier topic:

I think you've sold me on [Phantasy Star Online I & II for GameCube]. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!

 Haha! Have you ever played any PSO before?

No, but the game sounds interesting enough from the Wikipedia description. The fact that I can even play offline multiplayer mode (assuming I can round up a few friends) is also very appealing.  Many online-enabled games today seem to depend completely on access to servers to be "worth playing", sometimes I wonder how many great experiences will be lost for future generations once those servers are no longer available.

I hope you find it enjoyable! Honestly, I got addicted that that game, and had to force myself to quit after hitting level 42 or something. It seriously had that WoW-like effect of self-hating addiction that it did to me. It's also a.... well, I was a Force (Magic User) trying to use guns, so I was already making things hard on myself, but it's definitely not an action game, and you have to learn the intricacies of the game's auto-targeting system so that you actually hit a monster who's two-feet away from you. Just a word of warning is all, it's definitely not a Nintendo game where stuff just seems to magically all make sense. Oh, and play a Force only if you want hardmode. T-T

[Sarail]

...

...
Moving back to a happier topic:

I think you've sold me on [Phantasy Star Online I & II for GameCube]. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!

 Haha! Have you ever played any PSO before?

No, but the game sounds interesting enough from the Wikipedia description. The fact that I can even play offline multiplayer mode (assuming I can round up a few friends) is also very appealing.  Many online-enabled games today seem to depend completely on access to servers to be "worth playing", sometimes I wonder how many great experiences will be lost for future generations once those servers are no longer available.

Oh, man. Are you in for a treat then. I loved playing PSO back during the GameCube days. My brother and I spent hundreds of hours online playing with friends and randoms. So many good times. And the offline is just as good, too!

[NWR_insanolord]

I played the hell out of the original PSO on the Dreamcast. I love that game. It'd be amazing if they made a new one for 3DS, as I'd love to have it on a handheld and would be more interested in the sci-fi setting than the similar Monster Hunter.

[Adrock]

I didn't like Phantasy Star Online at first but it grew on me. My brother LOVED that game.

Phantasy Star 0 was almost the game I wanted it to be. For a DS game, it was pretty competent but it was still held back by the hardware. I'd love to see a sequel on 3DS, but I'd be just as happy with a port of Phantasy Star Online 2 on Wii U. I think it's currently PC and Vita only. Boo-urns.

[NWR_insanolord]

That's basically exactly how I feel about PS0. The DS just didn't have what it takes to pull it off. It did as well as it could with what it had to work with.

[TrueNerd]

One system had two original Pikmin games. One had none. End of argument.

[Pixelated Pixies]

One system had two original Pikmin games. One had none. End of argument.

One system had vastly improved IR pointer controlled versions of two Pikmin games. One had none. Start of argument...I kid, I kid. Seriously though, those Wii versions are pretty awesome.

[ejamer]

Kinda sorta related to Pikmin games: the lack of pointer controls in Little King's Story was the biggest letdown in that game.  Not that playing with traditional controls was bad, but sometimes having pointer controls can make the experience a bit smoother and more intuitive.  (You can probably guess where I fall on the NPC vs original debate.)

[Pixelated Pixies]

Kinda sorta related to Pikmin games: the lack of pointer controls in Little King's Story was the biggest letdown in that game.  Not that playing with traditional controls was bad, but sometimes having pointer controls can make the experience a bit smoother and more intuitive.  (You can probably guess where I fall on the NPC vs original debate.)

I totally agree. As much as I thought LKS was a charming and funny take on the Pikmin formulae, I also thought that the failure to utilise the pointer was a missed opportunity, especially given that the game's difficulty became such an issue towards the latter half, and much of that difficulty I believe was caused by the lack of a more nuanced control scheme. Still a good game though.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

I feel like I'm walking into the lion's den coming into this debate so late.

Anyway, this is a tough one. On the one hand, the Gamecube was probably the last console I had while at a young enough age that I was susceptible to truly having my mind blown by things I hadn't seen before. I miss that childlike sense of awe. That's not to say that I'm such a miserable, cynical bastard now that I'm no longer impressed or excited by anything - on the contrary, some of my favourite games ever have been in the last few years. But you know that feeling you got when you were younger, when you see something for the first time, like a Super Mario 64 or an Ocarina of Time? I really hope someone understands what I'm talking about. It was also at a time when I would much more commonly have friends over to play multiplayer games. The fact is, there was a point in my life when I would play Smash Bros. Melee every day with my mates from school. I have more memories of those kind of experiences with the Gamecube.

On the other hand, the Wii has been one of the forerunners of this 'retro revival' wave that has been gradually sweeping this generation of gaming. This generation, 2D platformers have come back in a big way, and so have numerous other genres that were thought to have died one or two generations ago. Old franchises are back and they all have that familiar feel, but with a crisp, fresh modern sheen over them. In a time where shooters and big budget action titles rule the day, the Wii is a safe haven for a good old platform challenge, or an adventure, or a clever puzzle. And when I look at my collection of Wii games, I can point to a decent number and say that probably wouldn't exist on another platform.

That's my stance. I'm not going to pick which is better; ultimately it would be a pretty arbitrary decision.

[Caterkiller]

...
Sunshine was Mario's lowest point, the graphics weren't that hot, everyone(generalizing) but me hated fludd
...

I honestly stopped reading there.  I liked fludd and thought he was a good solution to a 3D problem.

You have to be joking on the graphics right?

Sunshine and Galaxy really aren't that far apart and in some areas of Sunshine if you didn't know better you think graphically they were the same game.

About the graphics, I expected something as good looking as Luigi's Mansion. Despite being a completely different type of game, I assumed Sunshine coming long after that would have produced better visuals or at least on par. Sunshine and Galaxy share the same style but Galaxy is leagues above it in the visual department. And when I say Sunshine was Mario's lowest point, I should have clarified that I was regarding popularity. The entire aspect of cleaning and every level being more or less tropical island based was not looked on favorably like other Mario titles. Don't get me wrong I loved every moment of it, and love it more than M64, but at the time when child friendly games were less acceptable in the hardcore gaming world, Mario Sunshine was looked down upon. That commercial in America alone started so much hate.