Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: NWR_insanolord on June 26, 2012, 02:08:29 PM
Title: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 26, 2012, 02:08:29 PM
Ian made a comment in another thread that got me thinking. He stated, quite definitively, that the GameCube's software lineup was superior to that of the Wii. I wanted to respond to that, because I wasn't sure I agreed with that, but I'm separating the discussion into its own thread because I think this could be a deep and interesting discussion and didn't want to derail that thread too much.
So what do you think? Comparing Nintendo's output on the systems, there are significant differences in how they approached them; there are franchises that only appear on one of the two, highlighting the different things Nintendo emphasized in these time frames.
This isn't meant to be a thread about hating on the decisions Nintendo has made. I'm genuinely curious to see what everyone thinks about this as we approach the end of the Wii's life. Please keep it civil, as I know there are people who feel very strongly both ways.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2012, 02:14:17 PM
Hey, this is clearly a Poll and you didn't put a Poll up. There is a rule about Non-Poll Polls.
Anyways, I would have to say Gamecube. Don't get me wrong I like my Wii, but even now I'm still buying Gamecube games I've wanted. The last Wii game I got was Mario Kart, and I have to be honest, I was disappointed in recieving it (My Wife got it for me for Valentine day instead of Mario Kart 7. She means well.) Before that was Punch-Out which should have been a download title and before that was Skyward Sword simply because I wanted to talk to people here about it. Contrast that with the Gamecube where it was money and time that stopped me from getting a lot of different games through its life.
Gamecube just had better games.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 26, 2012, 02:18:42 PM
I didn't want a poll, I wanted a discussion. I don't want people just to vote, I want them to argue their side and try to convince people of their point. Also, **** the rules; I'm above the law and can do whatever I want. :P
The main issue I have is that the primary reasons I'm inclined to want to say GameCube, the Pikmin and Metroid Prime games, were rereleased on the Wii in superior form. I'm not sure how to count that. Pikmin was initially a GameCube game, but if I go back and play it or its sequel I would undoubtedly be playing the Wii New Play Control versions, because they improve the games significantly. Likewise, I'd never want to play Metroid Prime without pointer aiming ever again.
Apart from that I'd say the Cube wins at Zelda (Wind Waker > Skyward Sword) but the Wii wipes the floor with the GC in terms of Mario. The more I think about this, the more I want to say Wii.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2012, 02:34:23 PM
I didn't want a poll, I wanted a discussion. I don't want people just to vote, I want them to argue their side and try to convince people of their point. Also, **** the rules; I'm above the law and can do whatever I want. :P
The main issue I have is that the primary reasons I'm inclined to want to say GameCube, the Pikmin and Metroid Prime games, were rereleased on the Wii in superior form. I'm not sure how to count that. Pikmin was initially a GameCube game, but if I go back and play it or its sequel I would undoubtedly be playing the Wii New Play Control versions, because they improve the games significantly. Likewise, I'd never want to play Metroid Prime without pointer aiming ever again.
Apart from that I'd say the Cube wins at Zelda (Wind Waker > Skyward Sword) but the Wii wipes the floor with the GC in terms of Mario. The more I think about this, the more I want to say Wii.
I really liked Sunshine. Unfortunately it introduced Bowser Jr. which I despise with the passion of a thousand suns. I might agree with the Metroid Prime thing except I was tending to my son at that time and didn't see they were released and they are way way to much now to own. They might as well not exist. Pikmin I never got around to playing on any of the systems.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: lolmonade on June 26, 2012, 02:40:11 PM
The Wii, because you could play Gamecube AND Wii games on it. Also virtual console.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Evan_B on June 26, 2012, 02:41:26 PM
Well, in terms of really pushing the envelope, the GC did better. Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Metroid Prime, Melee, Sunshine, Wind Waker... they were all really good games that altered the formula and did what their predecessor's couldn't do WAY better. All a matter of preference, of course- Sunshine is way better than Galaxy, in my opinion. But I think that the Wii polished the SD graphics and design pretty much to perfection, and there's no doubt that it did have great titles.
I enjoy my Wii games more than my GC ones, but GC had a really solid lineup. I'm very torn on the subject.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kwolf on June 26, 2012, 02:46:25 PM
Well I'm not going to argue my side, cause it's just my opinion. I enjoyed the gamecube era much more than the Wii era. That's not exactly rose tinted glasses either. Honestly it comes down to just time spent playing. My wii actually detracts me from playing with motion controls.
Skyward sword is the one and only zelda game I have never finished. The motions controls bothered me that much, along with it's very linear experience. Especially since about the end of last year and beginning of this year I had a hurt wrist where I could not be waggling.
Now that my wrist is better and I can do that. I still have problems going back to the game. It just felt so guided and on rails. I'm just not a fan, personally. The same goes for Mario Sunshine. I actually liked it better than galaxies. Although Galaxy two was really nice.. I like the exploring and such. Both the Galaxy series, and Skyward sword kinda took that away for me. Sure you can explore, but not as much. They both feel much more guided.
Throw in some of the other gamecube games. My first exposure to Animal Crossing. Smash Bros Melee, Windwaker and twilight princess, Rogue Squadron , Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin 1 & 2, Metroid Prime 1 & 2, Resident Evil 4, Eternal Darkness, Mario Kart Double Dash, are just to name a few.
Those are all games that I played through from start to finish and then some. I can't say the same for Wii. Sure I enjoyed New Super Mario Bro's and Donkey Kong Country Returns.. And there are lots of good games on Wii. Half the time though I am a little put off by what feels like forced motion controls. Not saying that motion controls are bad either, I just hate when it's forced. So much of what was done on the wii could be replicated on a standard controller. Pretty much everything but the IR fuctionality of the pointer.
I honestly would have rather played Skyward Sword with a standard controller and used the second joystick + a shoulder button to dictate what direction the sword would swing. Plus there is also the limited space thing with motion controls. More often than not I am routing my console games to my desk's computer monitor to play. I usually pipe the games audio in through my computers sound card, so I can continue to take calls on skype or other voip. I cannot imagine playing a wii game here two and half feet from my monitor.. I would probably knock my desk microphone and send my other stuff flying.
Over all it really came down to personal preference. The gamecube was just a much better gaming system for me. It had more traditional controls. (I <3 my wavebird) Plus at the time it was around I actually had someone else around that liked to come play video games with me. No telling how much time I spent playing Melee, and Double Dash with my father. He has passed away though in 2004. Currently I don't really know anyone who likes to take part in such things anymore. Not locally at least.
So overall the gamecube was just much better for me. Games a bit more suited toward me, controls more suited toward me, time era more suited for me for local multiplayer, just over all was a better experience.
Also don't want anyone to think I hate my wii for saying that. Just saying that when it comes down to the two, I had much more love for my gamecube than my wii.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: King of Twitch on June 26, 2012, 02:47:57 PM
With the amount of complaining, gnashing of teeth, and apocalyptic rage, I can't believe either one would win. You could show a game wall of text for each one to prove one is better, but obviously Mario is better on Wii, I personally enjoyed TP over WW (and, bonus, we got SS!); Metroid Prime 1+2 was far better than 3. GC had F0, but on Wii you could download the old ones. Jungle Beat and DKCR.. it seems like somewhat of a wash in terms of franchises.
I know my anticipation for Gamecube games was far greater because it was before I got all old and crusty, but third parties made a lot more appealing games to me back then as well. I could go to a game store right now and pick up dozens of games for Gamecube that I never got around to that I would definitely like to play; I don't think I can say that about Wii. For that reason I would go with Gamecube. Plus it's so CUTE and made up of a cube!
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 26, 2012, 03:14:11 PM
The Gamecube was better because it had the best controller in human history, whereas in contrast the Wii had the absolute worst controller.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 26, 2012, 03:21:37 PM
The Wii, because you could play Gamecube AND Wii games on it. Also virtual console.
I think for the purposes of this discussion we're ignoring the backward compatibility of the Wii. Of course if you factor that in the Wii wins.
I think if we're just talking numbers the Wii has to win. I own 70-some Wii games, and I'd be shocked if I'd get even close to that on the GameCube even going back and picking up anything interesting I missed.
Zap, I think you're right that it's kind of a wash in some ways, with advantages of one being canceled out by those of the other. You can probably find counterpoints to the exclusives of one with those of the other.
You also bring up one set of those that I found interesting, Jungle Beat and DKCR. In a way, that seems like a metaphor for Nintendo's approach to a lot of their franchises on these systems. On the GameCube they were more likely to take chances on unconventional ideas for their franchises: basing Mario entirely around the waterpack, controlling a platformer entirely with the bongos, Metroid in first person from an unproven Western developer. This generation they've played it more safe a lot of the time, although they generally do it in excellent quality.
The Gamecube was better because it had the best controller in human history, whereas in contrast the Wii had the absolute worst controller.
I disagree on both points.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 26, 2012, 03:27:24 PM
The GC had backwards compatibility via the GB player peripheral. Not that that would fully offset the advantage the Wii has, but it counts for something. You can't hook the GB player up to your Wii, so the GC is the only way to go.
Also, even though the GC might not have a virtual console, it did let you play a lot of classic NES games through animal crossing and other means.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 26, 2012, 03:27:41 PM
I think you have to discount re-releases entirely. The game counts for the system in which is was first released. Twilight Princess is kind of a goofy one though so I would say it counts for both.
For me the controls really goober it all up. I don't like motion controls so they constantly fucked up otherwise great games. Gamecube games had controls issues far less often than Wii games did.
Originally counts for a lot too. Metroid Prime was a very original game on the Gamecube. That works in its favour. Both systems had two Metroids each. Both of the Cube ones were good, one of the Wii ones sucked. MP3 is also my least favourite of the Metroid Prime Trilogy. I know a lot of people like the pointer controls but I don't really care for them. Too much strain on my arm to hold the pointer in the right place and MP3 plays more like a typical FPS. I like how Metroid Prime isn't a typical FPS.
For Zelda I rule in favour of the Cube. TP basically cancels itself out since it was released on both systems at the same time and the Cube one doesn't have stupid waggle controls so it wins for me anyway. The Cube has Four Swords which is really fucking cool and the Wii has no equivalent of it. Wind Waker is better than Skyward Sword. SS cuts corners by making us visit the same areas again and again. Oh and it was the guardians and thankfully WW had none of that chore BS. I don't think either of those games is as good as the N64 Zeldas but I like WW more than SS.
Mario is one where the Wii wins. Aside from having more Mario games Sunshine is the worst 3D Mario and Galaxy is the best. Even with some questionable control issues I would pick SMG over SMS any day of the week.
The Cube had Pikmin, F-Zero and Eternal Darkness. The Wii did not and what replaced them? Excitetrucks/bots kind of replaced F-Zero in that it's a racing game. For what the Wii had that the Cube did not you have Punch-Out! (which I thought was way too conservative; only ONE new character? What a joke!) and the Wii Series. Of course I hate the Wii Series so that sure doesn't compare to Pikmin or ED. Xenoblade however does compare. The Wii was the dream system for sidescrollers if that really floats your boat. Personally I felt that they went overboard.
Another problem for the Wii is that as each Nintendo series becomes older the concept becomes staler. Mario and Zelda can't get me as excited as they used to. New stuff has to take their place. The Cube has an advantage in that the IP was still younger and at that point Metroid had yet to go 3D so it got the 3D rebirth that most series got in the N64 days. I was already getting on Nintendo's jock about creating new IP then but at least we got Pikmin. The big EAD new IP on the Wii was the Miis. Obviously I prefer Pikmin.
The Cube also had the benefit that it could wow us visually and Nintendo was able to push their series forward with new technology. That was not present on the Wii. It is hard to get excited about new games that don't do anything they couldn't have done on the old system, only they now have waggle.
The Wii also has more infamous duds. There is no Wii Music, Other M or DK Barrel Blast sullying the Cube lineup (though it does have Kirby Air Ride, the start of Iwata's dream of games requiring zero skill to play).
Still overall the controls are what hurt things on the Wii for me. Nintendo games often controlled like ****. This was never a problem on previous Nintendo systems. A Nintendo game with bad controls was rare and now I consider that the norm.
When I think of my favourite first party Cube games I think of Metroid Prime, Four Swords and the Pikmin games. One big part of it is that those all provided NEW GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCES. The Wii's new gameplay experience was stuff like Wii Sports and Wii Fit which are super lame and casual. For what I'm looking for the Wii didn't provide it like the Cube did. Though the Cube isn't that great for new experiences either, just better than the Wii was. The last time Nintendo truly came across as consistently innovative was on the N64.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2012, 03:28:21 PM
... I think if we're just talking numbers the Wii has to win. I own 70-some Wii games, and I'd be shocked if I'd get even close to that on the GameCube even going back and picking up anything interesting I missed. ...
I'm going to have to count my collection when I get home, but I feel pretty safe in saying I own my Cube games then Wii. I may own more Gamecube games then Wii even if I add in my VC games.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ymeegod on June 26, 2012, 03:32:44 PM
Gamecube wins IMO. Had tons of great core software from External Darkness, Tales of Symphonia, Emblem: Path of Radiance, and my favorite Rogue Squadron :) .
The only genre the WII did better than the GC was the 2D platformers and other "retro" games like Punchout.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 26, 2012, 03:34:26 PM
Obviously, personal preference will affect which console people prefer. So will environment and age at the time when the consoles were first available. But I feel that Wii is far and away superior to GameCube.
Why? Pure and simple, because of the games.
Wii has more games that I care about than GameCube ever did. After buying essentially every GameCube title that I care about, I currently own 67 games. That's a great number, but significantly fewer than the 105 Wii titles (not including any WiiWare or Virtual Console games) that I own. It's worth noting that some of the best GameCube games have been re-released on Wii, but unless the game was significantly improved I only own the GameCube original. It's also worth noting that the Wii number isn't final - a handful of those games will be sold or traded away later, and a handful of different games are still on my "want to buy" list; those numbers roughly even out.
Wii also caters to niche genres that I enjoy better than GameCube. Rogue-likes, on-rail shooters, arcade conversions, fighting games, 2D side-scrollers, music games, party games, point-and-click... I have far more variety with my Wii library than I do from GameCube, even if it has fewer games in some traditional gamer genres.
Finally, Wii just offered bigger hits and improved classics. What GameCube title could replace the hundreds of hours spent on Monster Hunter Tri or Xenoblade? What GameCube title compares to the Super Mario Galaxy series or Donkey Kong Country Returns? How much better are Metroid Prime and Pikmin and Animal Crossing on Wii than in previous generations? The one Nintendo franchise released on both systems that gets a solid "win" for GameCube is Zelda... everything else is arguably, if not clearly, better on Wii.
This doesn't mean that GameCube is a bad system or that it lacked software support. It was a great system that has some truly classic games. But if forced to choose between the two most recent Nintendo home consoles, there wouldn't be a moment of hesitation for me: Wii all the way.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2012, 03:37:42 PM
The Wii, because you could play Gamecube AND Wii games on it.
They stripped that out in the current Wii revision. If you go into a store and buy a new Wii odds are you would end up with this inferior version. So its debatable whether GC compatibility should be counted anymore.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Louieturkey on June 26, 2012, 03:46:02 PM
The Gamecube was better because it had the best controller in human history, whereas in contrast the Wii had the absolute worst controller.
I'd have to agree with at least the first part of this. I still think the worst controller ever was the Atari 5200. That one was horrible. Wiimote is more comfortable than and NES controller definitely.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Evan_B on June 26, 2012, 03:46:37 PM
Originally counts for a lot too. Metroid Prime was a very original game on the Gamecube. That works in its favour. Both systems had two Metroids each. Both of the Cube ones were good, one of the Wii ones sucked. MP3 is also my least favourite of the Metroid Prime Trilogy. I know a lot of people like the pointer controls but I don't really care for them. Too much strain on my arm to hold the pointer in the right place and MP3 plays more like a typical FPS. I like how Metroid Prime isn't a typical FPS.
For Zelda I rule in favour of the Cube. TP basically cancels itself out since it was released on both systems at the same time and the Cube one doesn't have stupid waggle controls so it wins for me anyway. The Cube has Four Swords which is really fucking cool and the Wii has no equivalent of it. Wind Waker is better than Skyward Sword. SS cuts corners by making us visit the same areas again and again. Oh and it was the guardians and thankfully WW had none of that chore BS. I don't think either of those games is as good as the N64 Zeldas but I like WW more than SS.
Mario is one where the Wii wins. Aside from having more Mario games Sunshine is the worst 3D Mario and Galaxy is the best. Even with some questionable control issues I would pick SMG over SMS any day of the week.
The Cube had Pikmin, F-Zero and Eternal Darkness. The Wii did not and what replaced them? Excitetrucks/bots kind of replaced F-Zero in that it's a racing game. For what the Wii had that the Cube did not you have Punch-Out! (which I thought was way too conservative; only ONE new character? What a joke!) and the Wii Series. Of course I hate the Wii Series so that sure doesn't compare to Pikmin or ED. Xenoblade however does compare. The Wii was the dream system for sidescrollers if that really floats your boat. Personally I felt that they went overboard.
Another problem for the Wii is that as each Nintendo series becomes older the concept becomes staler. Mario and Zelda can't get me as excited as they used to. New stuff has to take their place. The Cube has an advantage in that the IP was still younger and at that point Metroid had yet to go 3D so it got the 3D rebirth that most series got in the N64 days. I was already getting on Nintendo's jock about creating new IP then but at least we got Pikmin. The big EAD new IP on the Wii was the Miis. Obviously I prefer Pikmin.
The Cube also had the benefit that it could wow us visually and Nintendo was able to push their series forward with new technology. That was not present on the Wii. It is hard to get excited about new games that don't do anything they couldn't have done on the old system, only they now have waggle.
The Wii also has more infamous duds. There is no Wii Music, Other M or DK Barrel Blast sullying the Cube lineup (though it does have Kirby Air Ride, the start of Iwata's dream of games requiring zero skill to play).
Still overall the controls are what hurt things on the Wii for me. Nintendo games often controlled like ****. This was never a problem on previous Nintendo systems. A Nintendo game with bad controls was rare and now I consider that the norm.
When I think of my favourite first party Cube games I think of Metroid Prime, Four Swords and the Pikmin games. One big part of it is that those all provided NEW GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCES. The Wii's new gameplay experience was stuff like Wii Sports and Wii Fit which are super lame and casual. For what I'm looking for the Wii didn't provide it like the Cube did. Though the Cube isn't that great for new experiences either, just better than the Wii was. The last time Nintendo truly came across as consistently innovative was on the N64.
I just bolded most of the statements that I disagree with. I don't think we'll ever get along. :(
Also, have you ever tried doing the checklists in Air Ride? I bought that game when it first came out and I STILL don't have them all.
I mean, clearly you're not a fan of motion controls, and that's okay. But I think you give Nintendo far too little credit for their innovation with the motion control- hell, even what some third parties did with the motion control. But I'm not going to try to sway you on that- it's just not going to happen.
I can't be in this topic anymore...
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 26, 2012, 03:50:56 PM
The Gamecube was better because it had the best controller in human history, whereas in contrast the Wii had the absolute worst controller.
Strongly disagree. I loved having configurable control options, being able to play some games one-handed, and being able to move my hands around freely while playing. Also loved having pointer controls and a speaker on the remote.
Waggle almost balances all those positives out, but Wii still has a great controller and lazy development doesn't discount that.
The GC had backwards compatibility via the GB player peripheral. Not that that would fully offset the advantage the Wii has, but it counts for something. You can't hook the GB player up to your Wii, so the GC is the only way to go.
Also, even though the GC might not have a virtual console, it did let you play a lot of classic NES games through animal crossing and other means.
Kind of forgot about this, but it's a good point. The backwards compatibility with GB/GBC/GBA games is really a cool addition, if of somewhat limited use at this point. Makes me wish I owned more original GBA carts than I do...
I think you have to discount re-releases entirely. The game counts for the system in which is was first released. Twilight Princess is kind of a goofy one though so I would say it counts for both. ...
I disagree. When a re-release makes notable improvements, you need to factor that in and give credit to the system that offers the best game experience. There is absolutely no reason for me to play Resident Evil 4 on GameCube when Wii improves on the experience in small but significant ways across the board.
Gamecube wins IMO. Had tons of great core software from External Darkness, Tales of Symphonia, Emblem: Path of Radiance, and my favorite Rogue Squadron :) .
The only genre the WII did better than the GC was the 2D platformers and other "retro" games like Punchout.
Eternal Darkness - Silent Hill, Cursed Mountain, Fragile Dreams Tales of Symphonia - Tales of Symphonia Dawn of a New World, Xenoblade, The Last Story Fire Emblem Path of Radiance - Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, Shiren the Wanderer Rogue Squadron - You got me here, that's one hell of game!
Riddle me this: * - Monster Hunter Tri
*Edit: Phantasy Star Online, suggested above, is probably a good call on this one. I never played the game for several reasons (cost, defunct servers, no modem) but bet it would've been great. Of course, it's not hard to argue that Monster Hunter Tri is significantly better because it sidesteps all of those issues. Even though online capabilities with Wii were a joke, they were a lot better and more convenient than what GameCube offered.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2012, 04:07:24 PM
I personally was disappointed in some Nintendo first-party output on the GC, which really colors my perception of that console. I felt that Nintendo got into some awkward game design corners with the otherwise beautiful Mario Sunshine, and I really felt like they dropped the ball halfway through developing Wind Waker, as if they just stopped development on it and started giving really boring dungeons. And I'm sorry, Mario Kart Double Dash was... a big pile of meh to me even though I had 8-player LAN parties and played through the entire thing co-op with my younger brother.
There were definitely GC games I fully embrace though: Pikmin, Donkey Konga, Metroid Prime, Smash Brothers, Rogue Squadron 2 (3 just crushed my soul though...) Killer 7, Cubivore, Animal Crossing...
That said, I love the explosion of creativity the Wii inspired in Nintendo. I felt like where they'd lost a lot of spark with the GameCube, they rediscovered their pioneering spirit with the Wii. Wii Music and Wii Fit really pushed the boundaries of gaming and as a Nintendo fan I'm thankful for both games. The Mario Galaxy and Kart games also recaptured my love for those games whereas the GC had ones had worn out their welcome. I have yet to play XenoBlade and DKCR as well, so things can only get better. I do admit there were first party efforts I was still personally disappointed with, like Smash, and most notably Twilight princess.
But I think where the Wii pulls ahead dramatically for me is the third parties. I had a blast playing FPS' on the Wii: Far Cry, CoDs, Red Steel 2. I had the No More Heroes series to enjoy, and hidden motion-controlled gems like We Cheer and Godfather. There simply were and ARE more exciting, interesting, and unique third party games on the Wii, my backlog is still full of them: Silent Hill and Cursed Mountain are major holdouts in my (20-something strong) Wii backlog. And I'm EAGERLY awaiting The Last Story.
Oh, and then there's Virtual Console. That's just like... pure win right there.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Evan_B on June 26, 2012, 04:15:28 PM
Silent Hill has such mixed reviews- I don't know if I'm going to enjoy running from icy freaks with a terrible map. I need something that sells it a little better...
However, Monster Hunter Tri, Sonic Colors, Muramasa, and a lot of others that I haven't even played... I've just heard so many good things about the Wii's thurd party library- of what actually exists, I mean. It's got a ton of variety.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Louieturkey on June 26, 2012, 04:16:39 PM
Someone pointed out in another thread that GCN had 16? games with a metascore of 90+ and Wii had 11 I think. With the masses, even though the cube had less games, it had more highly regarded games.
This is all opinion obviously so there's no right answer. Nintendo would tell you the Wii is better because it made them more money. The cube definitely took more chances and unfortunately, that bit them in the butt and left the cube floundering throughout its lifecycle. I'd choose the cube over the Wii for a few reasons. One is that I never unplugged it until the Wii was in my house (BC). The Wii has been unplugged since before I bought Skyword Sword (yes, I still haven't played it) and it hadn't been played for about 6 months before that. I actually took the cube to college with me and got a 13" tv to play it on in my dorm room. I have fond memories of playing Pikmin 2 on that screen.
The cube had games that I played from start to finish without putting them down. The Wii has many unfinished games (including SMG2 which I have played all of two levels). The cube controller is my favorite of all time. I do enjoy the wiimote, but it doesn't hold a candle to the cube controller.
The Wii was definitely superior for some games. RE4 was much better on the Wii. The pointer controls made that game amazing and it saddened me when I had to go back to a traditional controller for RE5. Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles were quite fun games and I played them with my wife.
I couldn't tell you which system I owned more games. I do know I remember the games better from the cube than from the Wii. I actually played a lot of cube games on my Wii before I had a lot of games on the Wii.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Louieturkey on June 26, 2012, 04:20:06 PM
It's interesting how some believe that Nintendo was taking chances with the cube and less with the Wii. Then there are others who think the creativity came to a halt on the cube and was rekindled on the Wii.
Though when you think about it, the Wii was one of the biggest chances they've ever taken.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: lolmonade on June 26, 2012, 04:35:40 PM
The Wii, because you could play Gamecube AND Wii games on it.
They stripped that out in the current Wii revision. If you go into a store and buy a new Wii odds are you would end up with this inferior version. So its debatable whether GC compatibility should be counted anymore.
So just because this was stripped in the last year of its life makes it invalid?
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: lolmonade on June 26, 2012, 04:42:19 PM
The Wii, because you could play Gamecube AND Wii games on it. Also virtual console.
I think for the purposes of this discussion we're ignoring the backward compatibility of the Wii. Of course if you factor that in the Wii wins.
Oh sure, let's narrow the discussion!
I guess if I HAD to choose between the two, then it would lean towards the Wii. I just got a lot more mileage overall from the Wii than Gamecube. While Gamecube has some of my favorite games (Rogue Leader, Double Dash, ) and some awesome compilations (Mega Man Collection, Sonic collections, Zelda Anniversary collection), the only one that got near as much playtime for me was Super Smash Bros Melee, and that's just because I was in college at the time and lived with a "tourney" Melee-er.
That, and the virtual console allowed me to try some classic games I wouldn't have bothered to if I was forced to find them out in the wild. I hope they expand on it for the Wii U.
Maybe my experience is also tempered by the fact that I haven't played THAT many Gamecube games.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 26, 2012, 05:06:25 PM
Even if we count the Wii's backwards compatibility (which is unfair really, was the Atari 7800 better than the Atari 2600 since it's backwards compatible?) I still prefer the Cube because of the Game Boy library. You just put Link's Awakening and Pokemon into the comparison. That ain't going to do the Wii no favours. ;)
I did my comparison of first party lineups but I notice some are bringing up third party games. Well that REALLY tips things in the favour of the Cube. Now we have to include Rogue Leader and the Resident Evil games on the Cube side and IKARUGA.
But we're talking the games output so including backwards compatibility is stupid. Same with the VC and same with re-releases. None of those were originally made for the Wii. If the Wii never existed those games still would have been made. The Wii brought us Super Mario Galaxy and DKC Returns. Those games were made for the Wii so they properly represent the system. Super Metroid isn't a Wii game just because it's on the VC. It's a Super Nintendo game. It represents what the Super Nintendo brought to gaming. If the Wii's big contribution to gaming is Gamecube backwards compatibility, the ability to download old games, and the ability to add waggle to Gamecube games that's a pretty lame contribution. No, it is the games designed for the system (or included in simultaneous multiplatform development because games like Soul Calibur II and Prince of Persia deserve to be counted as Cube games; as would Twilight Princess for both the Cube and Wii) that define it.
If you were to ask "what would be the better purchase if you buy only one?" then a backwards compatible Wii would be the better suggestion because of the VC alone. But that's really just asking which system has better access to games. A BC compatible PS3 would also be a fantastic buy but I wouldn't argue that that is a better system than the PS1 or 2. Now that digital downloads are the norm for consoles I can see each new generation of consoles having a wider selection of games from previous generations on it BUT that really wouldn't make those systems the best ever.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2012, 05:09:36 PM
It's interesting how some believe that Nintendo was taking chances with the cube and less with the Wii. Then there are others who think the creativity came to a halt on the cube and was rekindled on the Wii.
Yeah, I think it's pretty awesome to step back and realize that. I mean, we're all Nintendo fans, but we DO have our differences in game tastes, in why we are here, and what we like, or don't like, most about the company. We can have some pretty strong and epic and brutal differences of opinion, but it's also a wonderful thing that we can acknowledge that we have our strong differences yet still share that connection through Nintendo.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2012, 05:15:17 PM
Though I do think its interesting that Regarding the Gamecube people are going for Different games compared to the Wii where a lot of people are just naming the same few.
Also don't forget Viewtiful Joe and Killer 7 (Though I never actually played the game even though I bought a copy for my brother and bought a copy for the retroactive.)
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ymeegod on June 26, 2012, 05:32:16 PM
If you want an comparrision list is terms of quality:
The GC has 156 games with an 75%+ rankings vs 97 on the WII. Out of those, 52 on the GC recieved an 85% + vs only 25 on the WII? (These numbers are from gamerankings.com in case you wondering).
Of course if differs by region since a ton of games never made it stateside like Tales of Graces for the WII. Boo, nothing I can do about that.
The WII did have built in networking so for mulitplaying games it's bested the GC but it still doesn't compare to what sony or ms is offering.
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Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 26, 2012, 05:39:21 PM
It's interesting how some believe that Nintendo was taking chances with the cube and less with the Wii. Then there are others who think the creativity came to a halt on the cube and was rekindled on the Wii.
Though when you think about it, the Wii was one of the biggest chances they've ever taken.
From the business perspective the Wii was initialy a huge gamble. Though I find that once it took off Nintendo ceased to do anything risky with it. Once they had a comfortable lead they played it safe the rest of the way.
Regarding games I find Nintendo talked about being creativity a lot on the Wii and it had this newfangled controller which certainly is new and creative. But I found in the execution Nintendo's Wii titles were rarely creative. Waggle isn't creative or at least isn't in a GOOD way. Now Wii Sports is really creative but I also don't think it's very good and a common complaint of mine was that Nintendo put creativity into their casual games but no so much their core games. What good is them being creative if it has no effect on the games designed for my tastes?
Nintendo talking about creativity and promising the moon with motion control makes my criticism increase. If you're going to talk endlessly about it, you better deliver. On the Cube I had a lot of criticism about connectivity for many of the same reasons I'm harsh on motion control. They acted like connectivity was this amazing idea and that would even make up for the lack of online play. That was bullshit and that made it worse. Connectivity then isn't just some lame Nintendo idea, it's an example of marketing propoganda and that attracts more fury from me (ironic that Four Swords is one of my favourite Cube games; hey, they got it right once).
Nintendo said "hey this motion control thing is awesome and creative and is going to result in all sorts of new ideas. And you're getting this INSTEAD of a meaningful hardware upgrade. This and THIS ALONE is the entire justification for this to even be a new system." That really raises the stakes. They failed to deliver so on the Wii "creativity" or "innovation" are bullshit marketing terms to me. Nintendo's creativity on the Wii comess across to me mostly as all talk. I just don't see it in their output.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Caterkiller on June 26, 2012, 08:53:48 PM
I remember a time here on the forums and the school yard where it seemed like Nintendo could do nothing right in the GameCube days. All we talked about was how Nintendo could make its franchises more mature after Sunshines commercial hit. Many of us here constantly complained that the GameCube controller didn't work well for traditional fighters, Nintendo wanted the rest of the industry to see it as the standard but that hardly took off. In everyone Else's mind the GCN controller was a joke, no matter how good it actually was. We got a handful of good 3rd parties but I'm pretty sure there were more on wii. If people want 3rd parties they have to accept that the cube controller has to go, at least for a while.
Sunshine was Mario's lowest point, the graphics weren't that hot, everyone(generalizing) but me hated fludd and wanted nothing but The Secret of levels with orchestrated music. Both galaxies blew it out of the water and the majority of the stages were linear like a 2d Mario, but when we got it some people still complained, though it was still universally accepted unlike sunshine. Pointer controls worked for star dragging and yoshis tongue, even acknowledged by Ian at one point, wii wins this one by a land slide.
Star Fox became the devil during the GameCube era. I would normally say something is better than nothing but the GameCube killed star fox. Winner, no one.
Donkey Kong Jungle was amazing! I mean even better than amazing and the controlls were even more responsive than returns but still some wouldn't play it. The game was way too short though and DKCR made Dk as fun as jungle beat with co-op and a major challenge. I understand some didn't like the shake to pound or roll, but it hardly made the game unplayable, and it is a blast. Wii wins this one, but only by a bit.
Pikmin was introduced and I place it on par with Xenoblade. A tie.
F-Zero was too epic outside of the story mode and nothing on the wii fills this void. Winner GCN.
Smash Bros was equal for both. Tie.
Mario Kart DD was the worst piece of crap to grace a Nintendo console. No online, LAN was near impossible and the game was just so slow and ugly. Mario Kart Wii had decent online, speed and fun optional controlls. Still ugly though, but it wins by a land slide.
Punch out revived for Wii which was basically a remade SNES version right? I honestly don't know, but people like me who never played any of them were in for a treat. This somewhat balances out Wario World. Winner wii.
Metroid Prime 1 was too amazing! Prime 3 evolved the series with controls and narrative but nothing is like the new experience of the first. Winner GCN.
Zelda... I don't see why Wind Waker is getting such high praise unless I am just confusing users here. Art style and control was amazing of course, but what about the lack of dungeons, stealth, all the sailing with pea sized islands, absolutely no challenge, then to top it off the triforce hunt? It may be cool to love Wind Waker now, but please don't forget those things when comparing it to SS. I love Wind Waker even with all it's flaws, but to pretend like it so vastly superior to SS in any way but art design is just laughable. TP is the devil and doesn't count. SS had motion controlles that worked with puzzles and enemies that actually made people think, that alone was enough to by pass its own lengthy travel system. Winner Wii.
Wii had 2 Kirby Games. Winner wii.
Animal crossing was the same game from the GameCube right? Winner GameCube. That was just lazy.
That's all I can really remember for 1st party.
For 3rd party the main game was Resident Evil, remake, 0 and 4. Then there was killer7 which didn't do so hot but was great. After that there's Tales Of, Baten Kaitos(wait 1st party?), Splinter Cell, Metal Gear, time splitters 2 and by 3 it was a joke. Soul Calibur 2 and nothing else note worthy fighter wise.
This gen... No more heroes, tales of, that black and white Sega game, Sonic Colors, S.O.L. Calibur, Conduit, Goldeneye, Zak and Wiki, Capcom vs Tatsunoko, and call of duty. It's a pretty even trade for a lame amount of 3rd party software.
I don't see the big difference between the 2 consoles except we got a 2d Mario and not every party game for Wii was titled Mario Party. The motion controlles don't break the Wii games, and during the GameCube days Nintendo did everything they could to make their franchises "different" since they had pretty much run out of ideas at the time. Other companies making their franchises, and having odd or sometimes questionable gameplay elements proves it. Water packs, bongos, Namco, Sega, double riders, art style, first person, some amazing and some purely cosmetic. I regard that no different than the Wii.
To me it's pretty much equal and what everyone really missed out on was graphics and convenient online.
Sent from iPad.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 26, 2012, 09:34:27 PM
Even if we count the Wii's backwards compatibility ...
I did my comparison of first party lineups but I notice some are bringing up third party games. Well that REALLY tips things in the favour of the Cube. Now we have to include Rogue Leader and the Resident Evil games on the Cube side and IKARUGA.
But we're talking the games output so including backwards compatibility is stupid. Same with the VC and same with re-releases. ...
You are talking in circles.
If you don't want to count remakes and re-releases then Resident Evil and Ikaruga don't hold any weight at all when arguing for GameCube. But of course these games do count - access to good games always matters, always makes a console more appealing, especially when those games are improved in a meaningful way like the Resident Evil Remake.
That accessibility is also why Virtual Console has to count. It provides the only way for many people to legally experience gaming classics today - and without Virtual Console I wouldn't have had the opportunity to play dozens of classic games like Super Metroid, Rondo of Blood, and Monster World 4.
Though I do think its interesting that Regarding the Gamecube people are going for Different games compared to the Wii where a lot of people are just naming the same few.
...
Good time to throw this link out again: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=38337.0 (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=38337.0)
Same few? People might be talking about the absolute best games on Wii - the games that are indisputable classics and going to represent some of the best games of this generation in their respective genres, but there is no lack of solid gaming on Wii.
If you want an comparrision list is terms of quality:
The GC has 156 games with an 75%+ rankings vs 97 on the WII. Out of those, 52 on the GC recieved an 85% + vs only 25 on the WII? (These numbers are from gamerankings.com in case you wondering). ...
These are interesting numbers, but more interesting is trying to decipher what aggregated review scores really mean. Does having 6 Madden games rated 82 or higher make the GameCube a better system than Wii, which has only one scraping the 82 rating? Guess that depends on how much you like Madden, and whether you agree with the reviewers in the first place...
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 26, 2012, 09:51:17 PM
... Animal crossing was the same game from the GameCube right? Winner GameCube. That was just lazy. ...
Did you play the game on both systems? You could claim that the Wii version was a rehash of the DS version, and that would mostly be true. But the Wii version has a lot of differences from the GameCube original.
The most important of those changes were improvements to the controls that made the game much easier and more convenient to play. (Edit: In particular, typing messages and using menus were much more effective on Wii than with the GameCube; you could easily argue that it was just better user interface design instead of anything to do with hardware though.) Going back to the GameCube version now is slow and painful to say the least...
Personally I'd suggest no clear winner, but that's just my opinion. But I'd also recommend the Wii version over the GameCube version 100% of the time if asked because of the greatly improved control scheme - so take this comment for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: lolmonade on June 26, 2012, 10:16:48 PM
Even if we count the Wii's backwards compatibility (which is unfair really, was the Atari 7800 better than the Atari 2600 since it's backwards compatible?) I still prefer the Cube because of the Game Boy library. You just put Link's Awakening and Pokemon into the comparison. That ain't going to do the Wii no favours. ;)
If we were comparing the Playstation 2 to the Playstation 3, would we not be allowed to consider PSN's PS1 Classics & original games? Couldn't consider the DSiWare & Game boy ports when comparing the 3DS to GBA? In my opinion, the download services are just as much a part of what defines the system as the hardware itself.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 26, 2012, 10:18:08 PM
Ian, normally I'd agree that you have to give precedence to the original version of the game, but the Wii versions of Pikmin 1+2, Metroid Prime 1+2 and Resident Evil 4 dramatically changed those games, in my opinion for the better. Pikmin 2 is one of my all-time favorite games, but I will most likely never play my GameCube copy of it again because of the vast improvement the Wii controls make. Doesn't that count for something?
I'm not going to deny that motion controls have caused problems by being used inappropriately, but you can't ignore the good aspects of the Wii controls, both in terms of the pointer, which is phenomenal in the right context, and motion controls, which in the relatively few instances they were used right really enhanced the games. The Wii version of Tiger Woods PGA Tour (post M+) is the best version of the game because of how well it implements motion controls.
Maybe I'm just different from a lot of people, but I found waggle to not be a major issue in most cases. The one major exception to that would be DKCR, but in something like the Mario games I never found it to be a real problem.
Again the purpose of this thread wasn't to try to come up with a winner, but to have an honest discussion about things, and I'd like to thank most of you for staying mature about this. It seems like we have a good mix of opinions regarding this, with people bringing a lot of solid points for both sides. This is the kind of thread that makes me proud of these forums, because it didn't collapse into petty bickering like it would on a lot of other forums. You guys have proven once again how great a community this is.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Sarail on June 26, 2012, 11:45:21 PM
My Games Count(Retail Releases Only) GameCube: 61 Wii: 58
I enjoyed the GameCube era more. Let me explain...
For me, the 'Cube era was a rekindling of the fire that the SuperNES brought to my doorstep. Everything from the silky smooth controller...to having a powerful graphics chip...to a surplus of great third-party games (minus all the awesome JRPGs of long ago). Microsoft boldly and conceitedly announced that their console was the only one that could do fur effects and certain water texturing that gen. Then Rare and Nintendo let out a big "Screw you, Microsoft" and created one of my favorite games of that generation -- Star Fox Adventures. Crazy fur effects and realistic water abound. It was great!
I've mentioned this before on this forum, but of my 61 'Cube games, the majority of them ARE third-party games. And these games are distinctly why I love my 'Cube oh-so much more than the Wii. Yes, No More Heroes, MadWorld, Zack & Wiki, and various other third-party games are great fun... but they DO NOT compare to the magic and smooth gameplay, and most importantly - fantastic, solid play-control, that games such as Metal Arms: A Glitch in the System, Second Sight, Beyond Good & Evil, MGS: The Twin Snakes, Viewtiful Joe, and Rogue Leader conjured up.
I'm also a huge fight game fan (nowhere near as much as Ty, tho :P), and games like Soul Calibur II and Capcom vs. SNK 2 EO were all that much better on the 'Cube compared to its rivals' counterparts. Plus, I own all of the Naruto: Geiktou Ninja Taisen games - I almost prefer these games over Smash Bros.! Crazy. But they're SO good. That same experience cannot be found on the Wii. Even as much as I do like Guilty Gear XX Accent Core... but still. :P
As far as Nintendo's own games go... and you guys might lambaste me for this...
I was absolutely stoked and thrilled for Luigi's Mansion at launch. I much preferred this game over any of the Marios on Wii. It was breathtaking to see a new creative idea using a Mario Bros. character in a totally new way. I'm a huge Ghostbusters fan, and so this game was a dream come true. I've probably played through Luigi's Mansion four or five times, and completed every single task on each run through... compared to my single play-through of each Mario game on Wii - and NOT doing every possible task in-game. I just got bored of the monotony. And that tacked on waggle for the spin in the Galaxy games... ugh. :/
Battalion Wars was a godsend for me that gen, too. Yes, there's BW2 on Wii.. but still, to this day, I've yet to finish the game because there's something about that Wii remote that drives me bonkers... makes me NOT want to have long play-throughs of games. It's disheartening. But anyhoo, yes! I loved BW. Such a smooth game to play on the 'Cube... and I loved that "Nintendo" touch of playing an semi-RTS, too. So good. Same goes for Pikmin... huge fan of those games during that era, too.
The only game series I can honestly say I preferred playing on Wii was Smash Bros. - Brawl, of course. And my only reasoning for it is simply because I was able to patch the game myself. Brawl+ and Project M brought new life into a semi-broken game and made it wholly wonderful again... but of course... I played this game using... yup. GameCube controllers! So would you really consider it a Wii game by that account?
And Zelda. Hmmm... this one's been a rough ride for me. I loved Skyword Sword immensely (more so than any of the other 3D Zelda's...except one), but Wind Waker was meh to me. Not because of the graphical style - which I was incredibly furious about when that trailer was first released. >:/ But mainly because, as others have already mentioned, the devs kinda puttered out on developing a FULL Zelda game with WW. I was just very disappointed by the whole matter. That ending, though... wow, that ending. Majora's Mask is still my favorite, though. Too bad that game wasn't pushed further back and re-imagined on the 'Cube. I would've been down for that.
Xenoblade is the one shining beacon of light for the Wii, though. I have to give the console credit where it's due when it comes to that game. And I'm also eagerly awaiting The Last Story and Pandora's Tower, too. There's still a little life left in the Wii...
I just don't find it as exhilarating as the good ol' GameCube days were. F-Zero GX, Wave Race: Blue Storm... wow. So many great memories!
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: rlse9 on June 26, 2012, 11:55:39 PM
The reason I think I'd put the Wii slightly above the Gamecube is that the experiences on the Wii felt fresh. Most of the games on Gamecube were just a continuation of what had been released on N64. Obviously there were improvements and innovations and so on but it wasn't that different. The Wii, on the other hand, provided a completely fresh experience. It may not have worked as well as it should have in some cases and the motion controls may have been forced into some games when there was no need, but when it worked well it was fun. I don't think I could ever go back to playing a golf game without motion controls, actually swinging is so much more fun than just pushing buttons. The Wii Sports games were a blast, bowling was just as fun as actual bowling without the funny shoes. Wii Fit and the balance board provided another unique control option. It wasn't used in as many games as I was hoping but using it for snowboarding was fun. Simple uses of the pointer like in Galaxy and Link's Crossbow Training may not have been all that innovative but still felt fresh and fun.
I don't know if I'm necessarily answering the question that was asked because I could definitely see myself arguing that the Gamecube was "better" but I think I had more fun with the Wii.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Adrock on June 27, 2012, 07:58:58 AM
I love the Wii but I'd give the edge to the GameCube. I think some of it has to do with where I was in life. I played and replayed more games when GameCube came out. Still, what it really comes down to is that GameCube did more first or better. Metroid Prime 3 is a better overall game than the original Prime but it benefits greatly from what Retro Studios learned from making the 1st 2 games. Metroid Prime is one of those few games that really wowed me. Those games don't come around very often. GameCube had 2: the aforementioned Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4. The Wii version is the best version of the game but I can only experience it for the 1st time once. The Wii doesn't have one of those types of games. To be fair, only Uncharted 2: Among Thieves holds the distinction this generation of a game that really, really wowed me.
Anyway, (not counting absences) the Wii only beats GameCube in terms of Mario, Mario Kart, and Donkey Kong. That's not a knock on Jungle Beat which was excellent; I just liked Returns more. That was the only close one. The GameCube did everything else better. Twilight Princess is slightly better on the Wii due to aiming but that's a wash. The Wind Waker mops the floor with Skyward Sword. WW is far from my favorite Zelda but it less flawed than SS, if that makes sense. The only thing it did wrong was (ironically) the ocean.
There is no Wii equivalent to Skies of Arcadia Legend which I know is pretty much just a director's cut of a Dreamcast game but I'm counting it.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 27, 2012, 08:55:33 AM
There is no Wii equivalent to Skies of Arcadia Legend which I know is pretty much just a director's cut of a Dreamcast game but I'm counting it.
I wish that I could find a copy of this game at a semi-reasonable price. Baten Kaitos Origins too.
It's a shame that both Wii and GameCube had a limited RPG library, but the few RPGs they did get were littered with gems!
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Evan_B on June 27, 2012, 12:26:33 PM
I mean, I love my Wii, but the GCN had Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, which is arguably my favorite RPG of all time.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 27, 2012, 12:57:40 PM
Quote
If you don't want to count remakes and re-releases then Resident Evil and Ikaruga don't hold any weight at all when arguing for GameCube. But of course these games do count - access to good games always matters, always makes a console more appealing, especially when those games are improved in a meaningful way like the Resident Evil Remake.
I didn't say "Resident Evil Remake", I said "Resident Evil games". Resident Evil 0 & 4 were NEW games created specifically for the Gamecube. Ikaruga is tricky since at the time the Cube version was the ONLY way to get the game in North America. In North America it was a Gamecube exclusive. You can discount it if you want but then I guess Animal Crossing doesn't count either since it's originally a Japan-only N64 game.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2012, 01:15:05 PM
... Sunshine was Mario's lowest point, the graphics weren't that hot, everyone(generalizing) but me hated fludd ...
I honestly stopped reading there. I liked fludd and thought he was a good solution to a 3D problem.
You have to be joking on the graphics right?
Sunshine and Galaxy really aren't that far apart and in some areas of Sunshine if you didn't know better you think graphically they were the same game.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Louieturkey on June 27, 2012, 02:32:54 PM
Am I the only person that loved Double Dash and hated Mario Kart Wii? DD always felt like skill was more important whereas MKW always felt like it was the luck of the draw if you were to win. And even though you could use the GCN controller to play MKW, it wasn't built for that, so the precision driving really meant nothing in that game.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 27, 2012, 02:57:22 PM
The Wii is easily the better system. It had more games I was interested in and more games I felt were better quality wise as well.
For Mario platformers it's no contest, the Wii has both Galaxy games which are lightyears ahead of Sunshine and has a great 2D Mario which is something the Gamecube never had. Yes, I still enjoyed Sunshine but the Galaxy games had a much wider variety of gameplay which is what I want in Mario games vs Sunshine which lacked it. Mario Kart Wii is also much better then Double Dash which is the worst home console Mario Kart because they butchered the multiplayer with the battle stages being too damn small and poorly designed. Of course the Gamecube did have the much better Paper Mario with Thousand Year Door while I fond Super Paper Mario to be kind of poor and way too damn tedious. Not really a big fan of the other Mario related games so I can't compare them but for the ones I am a fan of, except for Paper Mario the Wii has the better Mario games.
For Zelda it's kind of equal to me. The Gamecube had two 3D Zelda games and one 2D game while the Wii only had one 3D Zelda. I bought Twilight Princess for the Gamecube so I consider it a Gamecube game when I compare the systems. Of course the Wii's one Zelda Skyward Sword is my favorite Zelda game which is why both systems are equal for this series to me. The Gamecube might have had more Zelda games but the one the Wii had was better then any of them.
For Smash Bros, Brawl is much better then Melee. More characters, more stages that are better then their Melee counterparts (I actually enjoy the more chaotic nature of Brawl's stages because it makes each matches more exciting to me) and the greatest soundtrack ever made.
For Kirby the Wii is also the clear winner. The Wii not only had a great traditional Kirby game, but a great spinoff in Epic Yarn as well. The only Kirby game the Gamecube had was a racing spinoff that had some interesting things going for it, but wasn't very good. I'll take a great traditional Kirby and another great spinoff platformer over a subpar racing spinoff anyday.
For Wario games the Wii once again wins easily. Wario Land: Shake is not just a lightyear ahead of Wario World, in in a whole different universe. Wario World is a f*cking disgrace to the Wario series and Treasure should feel ashamed of themselves for making something so sh!tty. Shake on the other hand is not only the best Wario Land game, but one of the greatest 2D platformers ever made. When we look at the Wario Ware series, the Wii basically wins by default. The Gamecube Wario Ware was just a lazy port of the first GBA game with 4-player multiplayer, while Smooth Moves was at least a completely new game.
For Metroid it's like Zelda again where both systems are about equal. The Gamecube might have had two Metroid Prime games but Prime 3 for the Wii is my favorite of the series. The Wii also had Other M which isn't anywhere close to the quality of any of the Prime games, but still a good game that was worth playing.
For Donkey Kong, I'd give Gamecube a slight edge in this category. Even though I like both Jungle Beat and DKCR, I had more fun with Jungle Beat because I enjoyed it's unique gameplay and crazier levels more then what was in Returns.
For series that had no counterparts on each system, the Gamecube had two Star Fox, two Pikmin and F-Zero. Of course the two Star Fox for the Gamecube weren't very good so I wouldn't consider either game a plus. Both Pikmin games were also ported to the Wii but for sake of comparison, I'll give the Gamecube both game. For the Wii, it had Punch-Out, Sin and Punishment 2, Xenoblade and Rhythm Heaven. Sin and Punishment 2 and Xenoblade are both better then either of the Pikmin or F-Zero GX, so the Wii wins in the miscellaneous category.
Now we go to third party games were the Wii wins once again. The best third party game for the Gamecube was Resident Evil 4 which the Wii has the better version of. Unlike Twilight Princess or the NPC Pikmin games that were the same as their Gamecube counterpart with Wii controls, RE4 Wii Edition actually has the new content the PS2 version added. It actually has things the Gamecube version doesn't which makes it a fair comparison since it is an actual different game in ways other then just controls. Even without RE4, the Wii still has a much better selection of third party titles. The Wii had a lot more unique Japanese games which is the type of third party games I prefer which is why the Wii's third party lineup was much more appealing to me then the Gamecube was. There's also a ton of great Wii Ware games that the Gamecube had nothing similar to which once again, give the Wii a huge edge.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: lolmonade on June 27, 2012, 03:02:23 PM
Am I the only person that loved Double Dash and hated Mario Kart Wii? DD always felt like skill was more important whereas MKW always felt like it was the luck of the draw if you were to win. And even though you could use the GCN controller to play MKW, it wasn't built for that, so the precision driving really meant nothing in that game.
No, I preferred MK Double Dash over MK Wii as well.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2012, 03:06:43 PM
Am I the only person that loved Double Dash and hated Mario Kart Wii? DD always felt like skill was more important whereas MKW always felt like it was the luck of the draw if you were to win. And even though you could use the GCN controller to play MKW, it wasn't built for that, so the precision driving really meant nothing in that game.
No, I preferred MK Double Dash over MK Wii as well.
Same. My wife got my MK Wii and I've only played it 1 night...
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2012, 03:30:31 PM
Ehh... Mario Kart DD didn't really give me any fun in MP mode. The Wii version did, and it was the first time I actually had fun in VERSUS mode in a Mario Kart game (4-player team co-op versus computers? SIGN ME UP!!!).
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 27, 2012, 04:45:58 PM
I don't really think Mario Kart Wii or DD are particularly impressive. They're competent but aren't exceptional games. People still play SMK to this day but no one really plays DD and I figure no one will play MK Wii when the Wii U Mario Kart comes out. The best way to describe these games would be "the Mario Kart game for that console".
I like DD better however because Nintendo has moved the series more and more into one that punishes skill and maintains "balance" through random chaos. They want someone who has never played Mario Kart in his life to be able to win some races against experienced players and will give him game breaking power-ups to do it. Nintendo seems to think that everyone winning sometimes, regardless of how well they play is more fun and inclusive. I see it as pointless. Might as well roll dice or flip coins. Mario Kart Wii pushes this approach further than DD did so I consider it the inferior game.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 27, 2012, 04:49:53 PM
MKWii lets you turn off items in multiplayer, at least locally, which turns the game into 100% skill-based.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2012, 05:01:01 PM
DD was a great game to play with Non-Gamers.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2012, 05:05:06 PM
But that's exactly the same reason I really dig MK Wii. I can hand my dad the Wii Wheel, and we can race as a team so it's our collective performance that wins the day. I'll even drive BEHIND my dad as his sort of "wing man" to fire red shells at anyone who threatens to pass him.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 27, 2012, 05:09:42 PM
But that's exactly the same reason I really dig MK Wii. I can hand my dad the Wii Wheel, and we can race as a team so it's our collective performance that wins the day. I'll even drive BEHIND my dad as his sort of "wing man" to fire red shells at anyone who threatens to pass him.
Wait, but in DD you actually could be the wing man and your dad could drive while you shot the shells.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: SixthAngel on June 28, 2012, 02:29:23 AM
This isn't even a contest. The Wii crushes the Gamecube in nearly every conceivable way. I see a lot of nostalgia clouding people's judgement
Nearly every one of GC's big games has a far superior counterpoint on the Wii. Not only that but Nintendo had a much greater and more varied output on the Wii as well as better third party games.
2D platformers were pretty much nonexistent on the GC while Nintendo themselves made Mario, Wario, 2 Kirby games, and DKCR. People now act like 2d Mario has always been here but 2d games haven't been on consoles in any serious amount since the snes. You also had third parties like Boy and His Blob.
Sin and Punishment>Starfox Assault MKwii>MKDD Metroid Prime>Prime 3>>>>>Prime2 I only give the GC the win because is was the first and revived the franchise Wii Sports games>Mario Sports games Skyward Sword>Windwaker EXCITE games>Wave Race Red Steel 2>>>Geist
The c-stick was terrible for fps while the remote was the best solution a console has ever had. And it got fps from every Modern Warfare to Conduit 1 and 2.
Brawl>Melee unless you are tournament obsessed to insane degrees. Monster Hunter> Nothing to compare Xenoblade>Baiten Kaitos Last Story PUNCHOUT! Once again GC has nothing.
The return of lightgun games with HoD and the RE games.
That doesn't even get into all the fun niche and experimental games the Wii had. Elebits- loved it and nothing else like it exists. Rune Factory Warioware Muramasa Little Kings Story de Blob No More Heroes 1 and 2 Madworld Rhythm Heaven Skylanders Endless Ocean Boomblox Rockband It also had games I could play with my family like Just Dance, Wii Fit and the already mentioned Wii Sports. This is just off the top of my head too.
SS cuts corners by making us visit the same areas again and again. Oh and it was the guardians and thankfully WW had none of that chore BS.
WW had the most boring and loooong chore of a quest ever when it came to finding the triforce pieces. You even had to get money to pay to read them before fishing around the world. Nothing else comes close. When speaking of cutting corners it also had dungeons obviously entirely cut out.
A person who likes the GC output more than the Wii either has nostalgia goggles on or they hate motion controls to such a degree that it is more important to them than the Wii's superior lineup in all types of games.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 28, 2012, 04:24:01 AM
But that's exactly the same reason I really dig MK Wii. I can hand my dad the Wii Wheel, and we can race as a team so it's our collective performance that wins the day. I'll even drive BEHIND my dad as his sort of "wing man" to fire red shells at anyone who threatens to pass him.
Wait, but in DD you actually could be the wing man and your dad could drive while you shot the shells.
That's not the wing man. That's the gunner/navigator seat. In Mario Kart Wii I can actually tell people to "check your 6." That's why it's so much win in multiplayer co-op versus mode.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2012, 10:12:12 AM
Phantasy Star Online is the Monster Hunter of Gamecube. They are kissing cousins of each other except for the monthly charge.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 28, 2012, 12:11:29 PM
Phantasy Star Online is the Monster Hunter of Gamecube. They are kissing cousins of each other except for the monthly charge.
Did Phantasy Star Online have a single player mode, or was it only online? My curiosity is growing, but I'm not willing to jump through any hoops (ie: tracking down a GameCube broadband adapter) to get online play working...
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Evan_B on June 28, 2012, 12:18:57 PM
Phantasy Star Online is the Monster Hunter of Gamecube. They are kissing cousins of each other except for the monthly charge.
Did Phantasy Star Online have a single player mode, or was it only online? My curiosity is growing, but I'm not willing to jump through any hoops (ie: tracking down a GameCube broadband adapter) to get online play working...
Single-player offline mode. Also, MULTIPLAYER OFFLINE mode with no need for a broadband adapter. It was very addictive.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 28, 2012, 12:49:23 PM
With the Wii, Nintendo proved to me that they are not interested in making classic games anymore, most 3rd parties had already done that by that point.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 28, 2012, 01:22:06 PM
With the Wii, Nintendo proved to me that they are not interested in making classic games anymore, most 3rd parties had already done that by that point.
What does this even mean? Are you saying Nintendo's first party efforts on Wii aren't going to be considered classics? Or that they aren't games with a classic style?
In either case, I can't see your claim as reasonable. Nintendo's return to classic 2D platforming was glorious on Wii, and they didn't sacrifice other genres either with games like Wii Sports, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Mario Galaxy, and Xenoblade Chronicles all standing tall as defining moments in the generation that will be played for years to come.
Maybe you need to clarify what "making classic games" is supposed to mean, or at least give some examples, if you want your opinion to hold more weight.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2012, 01:25:18 PM
Phantasy Star Online is the Monster Hunter of Gamecube. They are kissing cousins of each other except for the monthly charge.
Did Phantasy Star Online have a single player mode, or was it only online? My curiosity is growing, but I'm not willing to jump through any hoops (ie: tracking down a GameCube broadband adapter) to get online play working...
Single-player offline mode. Also, MULTIPLAYER OFFLINE mode with no need for a broadband adapter. It was very addictive.
With the Caveat that going online gets you better stuff much much faster. Even as a single player game it is still good.
With the Wii, Nintendo proved to me that they are not interested in making classic games anymore, most 3rd parties had already done that by that point.
What does this even mean? Are you saying Nintendo's first party efforts on Wii aren't going to be considered classics? Or that they aren't games with a classic style?
In either case, I can't see your claim as reasonable. Nintendo's return to classic 2D platforming was glorious on Wii, and they didn't sacrifice other genres either with games like Wii Sports, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Mario Galaxy, and Xenoblade Chronicles all standing tall as defining moments in the generation that will be played for years to come.
Maybe you need to clarify what "making classic games" is supposed to mean, or at least give some examples, if you want your opinion to hold more weight.
I really don't see people playing Wii Fit or NSMBWii for the next 20 years. They're okay games but there's nothing that will make them stand out once the next iteration comes out--and in the case of NSMB, i'd rather just play SMB3 or Mario World instead. Classic games get played to death, I just haven't done that with ANY Wii game. I beat Galaxy out of sheer determination despite being annoyed by the terrible camera and spotty controls and couldn't care less about Galaxy 2. SS just sits unfinished. It was too awful to bother with.
Metroid has always been a niche title so I doubt that the Prime trilogy is really going to live on as anything other than an entry in an already classic franchise.
XC is a game that Nintendo thought so little of that they weren't going to release it in NA--no one is going to buy a Wii to play it. A JRPG that gets a limited release probably isn't going to gain any long term traction. Maybe Nintendo won't botch the release of the next Xeno game and the series unexpectedly takes off.
In 10 years, there is no way you will be playing these games. I'd be shocked if you were still playing them in 2.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 28, 2012, 02:44:17 PM
Galaxy 2 is the best game of this generation and I have no doubt I'll be playing that game for as long as I play games. The original and DKCR as well.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 28, 2012, 02:48:06 PM
I really don't see people playing Wii Fit or NSMBWii for the next 20 years. They're okay games but there's nothing that will make them stand out once the next iteration comes out--and in the case of NSMB, i'd rather just play SMB3 or Mario World instead. Classic games get played to death, I just haven't done that with ANY Wii game. I beat Galaxy out of sheer determination despite being annoyed by the terrible camera and spotty controls and couldn't care less about Galaxy 2. SS just sits unfinished. It was too awful to bother with.
Metroid has always been a niche title so I doubt that the Prime trilogy is really going to live on as anything other than an entry in an already classic franchise.
XC is a game that Nintendo thought so little of that they weren't going to release it in NA--no one is going to buy a Wii to play it. A JRPG that gets a limited release probably isn't going to gain any long term traction. Maybe Nintendo won't botch the release of the next Xeno game and the series unexpectedly takes off.
In 10 years, there is no way you will be playing these games. I'd be shocked if you were still playing them in 2.
So what you're saying is you're psychic and know exactly what games other people will be playing in the future? Wow, you must be a millionaire since you can see all the future winning lottery numbers. ::)
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 28, 2012, 02:52:24 PM
Galaxy 2 is the best game of this generation and I have no doubt I'll be playing that game for as long as I play games. The original and DKCR as well.
I'm being serious when I ask: Why?
Why what? Why would I want to continue playing the best console game in recent memory and one of the best games I've ever played? That seems like an odd question.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 28, 2012, 03:28:05 PM
Galaxy 2 is the best game of this generation and I have no doubt I'll be playing that game for as long as I play games. The original and DKCR as well.
I'm being serious when I ask: Why?
Why what? Why would I want to continue playing the best console game in recent memory and one of the best games I've ever played? That seems like an odd question.
I hardly find it odd. I found galaxy 1 to be a game with little depth and, camera and control issues aside, not much challenge. I found it rather tedious and haven't touched it in 4 years or so. The idea of playing any more of it seems like a fruitless endeavor. More power to you, if you're one of the people that is devoted to it, i guess.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Evan_B on June 28, 2012, 03:35:41 PM
Galaxy 2 is the best game of this generation and I have no doubt I'll be playing that game for as long as I play games. The original and DKCR as well.
I'm being serious when I ask: Why?
Hey dude, guess what? Not everyone has the same opinions as you. Hell, I enjoy the original Super Mario Bros. a lot because it's tough, but aside from that, I don't find myself playing it over and over. It's a classic. I enjoy New Super Mario Bros. Wii because I first played through with a friend. The ability to play it again with other people and assist them, or even tackle it on my own (which is a lot tougher) provides a good deal of enjoyment to me.
Likewise, the novelty of playing with a Wii Wheel will never wear off to me. As for DKCR, I'll probably play that game forever because it's hard as balls. I'll play Skyward Sword for the first foray into motion gaming, I'll play Xenoblade Chronicles because it's already one of my favorite games of all time, just like how I come back and play Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, or when I pop in Super Mario Sunshine to see how fast I can ace one of those levels.
Some people play the same games to recapture that feeling of nostalgia, some people play them because they love the mechanics implemented. It's not up to you you judge them for it.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 28, 2012, 04:06:17 PM
@ luigi dude you don't have to be psychic to make very reasonable predictions, but thanks for being a dick about it.
Oh please, your whole argument is since you don't like certain games on the Wii everyone else on the planet doesn't like them either. If you can't even understand why people are considering both Mario Galaxy games classics that will be remembered for years, even though they are two of the highest rated games of all time with a 97% average each, then you have a problem.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 28, 2012, 04:17:19 PM
Galaxy 2 is the best game of this generation and I have no doubt I'll be playing that game for as long as I play games. The original and DKCR as well.
I'm being serious when I ask: Why?
Hey dude, guess what? Not everyone has the same opinions as you. Hell, I enjoy the original Super Mario Bros. a lot because it's tough, but aside from that, I don't find myself playing it over and over. It's a classic. I enjoy New Super Mario Bros. Wii because I first played through with a friend. The ability to play it again with other people and assist them, or even tackle it on my own (which is a lot tougher) provides a good deal of enjoyment to me.
Likewise, the novelty of playing with a Wii Wheel will never wear off to me. As for DKCR, I'll probably play that game forever because it's hard as balls. I'll play Skyward Sword for the first foray into motion gaming, I'll play Xenoblade Chronicles because it's already one of my favorite games of all time, just like how I come back and play Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, or when I pop in Super Mario Sunshine to see how fast I can ace one of those levels.
Some people play the same games to recapture that feeling of nostalgia, some people play them because they love the mechanics implemented. It's not up to you you judge them for it.
I appreciate the spirited response but I fail to see where I'm judging people for what they play. I like games with precise controls. Nintendo went in another direction with most Wii games. I don't care about SMG, most Wii owners didn't either. Even less cared about SMG2-- it would be unreasonable to believe that those games are going to get more popular with time when the sequel sold less than the original.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 28, 2012, 04:19:57 PM
@ luigi dude you don't have to be psychic to make very reasonable predictions, but thanks for being a dick about it.
Oh please, your whole argument is since you don't like certain games on the Wii everyone else on the planet doesn't like them either. If you can't even understand why people are considering both Mario Galaxy games classics that will be remembered for years, even though they are two of the highest rated games of all time with a 97% average each, then you have a problem.
Sales back up my opinion. The hype industry backs yours. I'll trust my opinion on this one.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 28, 2012, 04:57:50 PM
Sales don't make a game a classic; quality does. Quality is subjective, but the fact that the Galaxy games are tied for best Metacritic score of this generation means that there are a lot of people who think they're high quality. You don't have to like them, but you need to be able to acknowledge that most people who played them do.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Evan_B on June 28, 2012, 04:58:38 PM
A game- especially a Japanese one, goodness gracious- like SMG that was well-received even by Western reviewers means that it could generally be well-liked. Again, your opinion on controls or content doesn't make a game memorable to anyone else. Your condescending tone actually implies that you're incredulous as to why someone else would enjoy the game- at least, that's how it appeared to me. That's just my opinion, though, and I'll respect you for disagreeing with how I perceived your writing style.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 28, 2012, 05:00:12 PM
Sales back up my opinion. The hype industry backs yours. I'll trust my opinion on this one.
Mario Galaxy 1 has sold over 10 million copies and Galaxy 2 over 7 million. If sales are what you're using to determine whats a classic then you've already destroyed your own argument.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: treecko1111 on June 28, 2012, 05:16:41 PM
You could show a game wall of text for each one to prove one is better, but obviously Mario is better on Wii, I personally enjoyed TP over WW (and, bonus, we got SS!)
Sorry, if I point out the obvious, but, Twilight Princess was originally only for the Gamecube, although it was a good game to start out with on the Wii. As for the Mario comment, my opinion is that Sunshine is better, but I am rather biased towards the Gamecube as a generation seeing as though I grew up with those games. But, Sonic is better (in my opinion) on Gamecube, because Sonic Adventure DX Director's cut was much better (and has better controls (and no werehog)) than Unleashed, Colors, Black Knight, or Secret Rings. Also, It had Chao. Enough said. I think that the Gamecube and the Wii each have their high points, But to me, the Gamecube was better. Everyone has their own opinion, we should stop arguing over menial things such as this and just play.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 28, 2012, 05:37:25 PM
Sales back up my opinion. The hype industry backs yours. I'll trust my opinion on this one.
Mario Galaxy 1 has sold over 10 million copies and Galaxy 2 over 7 million. If sales are what you're using to determine whats a classic then you've already destroyed your own argument.
That's not what I said but you still seem to have a hard time coming up with a reason why a series that trended downward is somehow becoming more and more popular. Hint: It's not.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 28, 2012, 05:48:31 PM
Sales mean nothing. Pretty much anyone who played them will tell you Galaxy 2 is just as good or better than the first one. There are lots of reasons it might have sold worse than the first.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: SixthAngel on June 28, 2012, 05:51:03 PM
You could show a game wall of text for each one to prove one is better, but obviously Mario is better on Wii, I personally enjoyed TP over WW (and, bonus, we got SS!)
Sorry, if I point out the obvious, but, Twilight Princess was originally only for the Gamecube, although it was a good game to start out with on the Wii.
It was never originally only for the Gamcube, it was originally planned for the GC. What system something is developed for at first has no bearing to what system "owns" the game. It's development started out for the Gamecube but it was originally released on the Wii followed by the Gamecube release. The Wii version was released first. GC has no claim over Twilight Princess, although I think it is pretty much a wash since they both got them in a short amount of time.
I can't help but laugh at Marty. The Wii is going to have a lot of classics that people look back on in the future. The system released with a pack-in game that is going to be remembered as a classic. I think these people troll other gaming websites too much cough:neogaf:cough and start to believe the small minority of extremely vocal Wii haters they see.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 28, 2012, 06:13:42 PM
Quote
WW had the most boring and loooong chore of a quest ever when it came to finding the triforce pieces. You even had to get money to pay to read them before fishing around the world. Nothing else comes close. When speaking of cutting corners it also had dungeons obviously entirely cut out.
A person who likes the GC output more than the Wii either has nostalgia goggles on or they hate motion controls to such a degree that it is more important to them than the Wii's superior lineup in all types of games.
WW's chore quest was boring but it wasn't hard or frustrating to play. In SS if you made one flub in a guardian section, tough ****, do the ENTIRE THING over again. The Triforce quest in WW are impossible to fail at, you just have to put the time in. I can see players getting outright stuck on the guardian bits. And they do that **** FOUR TIMES. I dreaded every single time I knew one of those was coming up. It's one thing to stick useless filler in a game but it's even worse if you make it difficult and allow zero margin of error! Oh and SS also had this annoying bird flying quest that I had to complete to continue that I had to get my brother to beat for me because I couldn't accomplish **** with the broken ass motion controls. It was the fuckin' manta ray level from SMG only you could not skip it and proceed like you could in Mario. I'm not a big WW fan, it just never truly pissed me off like SS occasionally would.
I don't have nostalgia goggles on. I fall into the category of those the hate motion control. It isn't like some spiteful bias. I legitmately find the imprecise, awkward, wishy-washy, slippery and prone-to-go-off-when-you-don't-want-it-to nature of motion controls seriously damaged every single game I played that had it and did not provide traditional controls as an option. I'm used to playing Mario where you push the button and he does what you want. Having him sometimes not do the move I told him to do or sometimes do the move when I don't is NOT FUN and is clearly inferior to what I had before. If you're to make me learn something new it better be superior to what it was before. I learned to use the analog stick in Super Mario 64 and the clicky analog triggers in Super Mario Sunshine because that improved the control I had over Mario. But something that is just a different and less precise way to do what I did before? **** that. If someone showed you a car with a new way to steer that provided zero advantage over a steering wheel and was actually less responsive would you want to switch to driving in that manner? I highly doubt it.
I think years from now when Nintendo starts re-releasing the old Wii titles they'll put in normal controls in the games that should have offered it and anyone who plays it will wonder why they ever put up with waggle at all. The pointer games will likely hold up favourably but the waggle games will be snickered at like cheesy FMV is made fun of today.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 28, 2012, 07:27:25 PM
Sales mean nothing. Pretty much anyone who played them will tell you Galaxy 2 is just as good or better than the first one. There are lots of reasons it might have sold worse than the first.
If sales mean nothing, go tell that to the folks in the sales thread. Sales mean a lot more than a review score. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the fact that games get made to be sold, not to generate nice words. Do you think Ubisoft really cares what the metacritic scores for the Just Dance games are?
SMG didn't generate interest in more SMG, that's why SMG2 didn't sell as well. It has nothing to do with review scores or which game people think is better.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 28, 2012, 07:30:25 PM
That's not what I said but you still seem to have a hard time coming up with a reason why a series that trended downward is somehow becoming more and more popular. Hint: It's not.
So now it's if the latest game sold less it's not classic and the first one isn't a classic either? So by your logic Ocarina of Time isn't a classic since Majora's Mask sold far less. Pokemon Red/Blue isn't a classic since Gold/Silver sold less. The original Super Mario Bros can't be a classic since Bros 2 and 3 sold far less on the same system.
Do you see just how flawed your logic is getting.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 28, 2012, 07:42:48 PM
That's not what I said but you still seem to have a hard time coming up with a reason why a series that trended downward is somehow becoming more and more popular. Hint: It's not.
So now it's if the latest game sold less it's not classic and the first one isn't a classic either? So by your logic Ocarina of Time isn't a classic since Majora's Mask sold far less. Pokemon Red/Blue isn't a classic since Gold/Silver sold less. The original Super Mario Bros can't be a classic since Bros 2 and 3 sold far less on the same system.
Do you see just how flawed your logic is getting.
you don't read what I write and if you do, you clearly don't understand it. It's annoying. YOU are annoying. Go troll sixthangel, he made a prediction that the Wii will have many classic games. Or go play some "classic" Wii Music or whatever.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 28, 2012, 07:56:54 PM
Sales mean nothing. Pretty much anyone who played them will tell you Galaxy 2 is just as good or better than the first one. There are lots of reasons it might have sold worse than the first.
If sales mean nothing, go tell that to the folks in the sales thread. Sales mean a lot more than a review score. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the fact that games get made to be sold, not to generate nice words. Do you think Ubisoft really cares what the metacritic scores for the Just Dance games are?
SMG didn't generate interest in more SMG, that's why SMG2 didn't sell as well. It has nothing to do with review scores or which game people think is better.
Super Mario Galaxy 2 didn't sell well because it was released in 2010. There were a lot more gamers buying Wii games in 2007 than 2010. It probably didn't help that on the surface it looked like a rehash; you needed to play it to appreciate what new stuff it did. It was also released in the first half of a really stacked year, which meant it got less consideration in the busy holiday season, and only a few months after another Mario game, which most likely cannibalized its sales. As I said, there are a lot of reasons it might have sold less.
Regardless of that, sales don't matter at all in the context of this discussion, pertaining to what makes a game a classic. Pikmin 2 sold like ****, well worse than the first, but you'll find tons of people calling it a classic because the sales are irrelevant, what matters is what people who played it thought of it.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 28, 2012, 07:58:39 PM
I'm guessing this sales logic is that a game's sales don't truly reflect popular opinion of it because numerous people might have bought it and disliked it. If the sales for the sequel are significantly lower it would suggest that a fair amount of people didn't like the first game enough to buy future games with the same style of gameplay.
Personally I don't care about sales. A game's legacy is largely based on how it is regarded years after its release. Sometimes crap games sell and good games don't. But ten years later that same good game might be considered a classic while the high-selling crap game is regarded as a joke or has just been forgotten.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 28, 2012, 10:09:16 PM
Sales mean nothing. Pretty much anyone who played them will tell you Galaxy 2 is just as good or better than the first one. There are lots of reasons it might have sold worse than the first.
If sales mean nothing, go tell that to the folks in the sales thread. Sales mean a lot more than a review score. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the fact that games get made to be sold, not to generate nice words. Do you think Ubisoft really cares what the metacritic scores for the Just Dance games are?
SMG didn't generate interest in more SMG, that's why SMG2 didn't sell as well. It has nothing to do with review scores or which game people think is better.
Super Mario Galaxy 2 didn't sell well because it was released in 2010. There were a lot more gamers buying Wii games in 2007 than 2010. It probably didn't help that on the surface it looked like a rehash; you needed to play it to appreciate what new stuff it did. It was also released in the first half of a really stacked year, which meant it got less consideration in the busy holiday season, and only a few months after another Mario game, which most likely cannibalized its sales. As I said, there are a lot of reasons it might have sold less.
Regardless of that, sales don't matter at all in the context of this discussion, pertaining to what makes a game a classic. Pikmin 2 sold like ****, well worse than the first, but you'll find tons of people calling it a classic because the sales are irrelevant, what matters is what people who played it thought of it.
The Wii was still sold out at times in 2009, to say that the peak number of potential sales had passed by 2010 makes no sense--most people that bought a Wii did so after 2007. Everyone knows CoD games ARE rehashes and that doesn't stop 20+ million sales every year (with increasing sales every year), if SMG isn't outsold by 2, it's because people didn't want more SMG 1, rehash or not (and if it's not, well, name it something else). SMG2 and NSMBWii are 2 totally different games, to suggest that someone played a 2d mario game and that satisfied their desire to play a 3d mario game doesn't hold water. NO 3d mario game has ever sold like a 2d mario game, people clearly understand that they're 2 different genres.
Classics are games that remain relevant and even gain relevance as time goes on. It has nothing to do with being well regarded in the company of its contemporaries (although it might help find the game an audience)-- like most well rated and even good selling games. I'd hardly call the Band Camp/Guitar Hero games classic since the music genre has pretty much died out after a few years and I don't know anyone who still buys or even plays those games anymore. People raved about how good Okami was but it still helped put Clover out of business.
Sales matter because it give a game an initial base who the game might stay relevant to. The Pikmin games were never relevant. I'm not saying they're bad games but, unless some future Pikmin game becomes some smash hit, I don't see them springing back out of irrelevance. I mean, is Chibi Robo a classic? 1080 Avalanche? No, they were just okay games that most people didn't play when they were new, aren't playing now, and never will. It's not some terrible curse, they just aren't classics.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 28, 2012, 10:36:10 PM
But I know if I did a poll on these forums on whether Pikmin 2 was a classic the result would be overwhelmingly in favor of yes. In the same way that Radiant Silvergun is regarded as a classic despite being on the fucking Saturn and selling 14 copies, low sales don't prevent something from being a classic.
You're making far too many assumptions for why Galaxy 2 sold the way it did. And even if you're right, 7 million people still wanted another Galaxy game, which seems like plenty of people.
I'm sorry you don't like the Galaxy games, but you are in the minority. Many people will regard it as a classic, and ten years from now when sites are doing retrospectives on the Wii they will be listed as games to go back and play, because they are great games. History will be on my side.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 28, 2012, 10:48:02 PM
Van Gogh had practically zero initial base for his work when he died. Now his paintings are so revered they needed to post a security guard to keep my mom away from one of 'em.
Or if you want videogames, think of the small but fervent fanbases still carrying torches for Psychonauts or Beyond Good & Evil. Or even Nintendo's own beloved, and according to NOA, unbankable, Mother series. Just because a game is unsucccessful at launch does not mean it won't be inaugurated into the pantheon of "classics" that exists in gamerdom.
The truth is that only time will tell what games survive in our hearts and minds ten years from now. Some games that sell millions will vanish completely (for example, who was Antonio Salieri?). Others games ignored at their release, just like Van Gogh's Sunflower paintings were, could survive the ages to finally win widespread acclaim and appreciation. For example, Phoenix Wright finally hit it big when he got ported to the DS, his entire history as a GBA series is more or less forgotten.
Until the years do their work on both deserving and undeserving examples though, your guess as to what will end up what is as good as mine.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 28, 2012, 11:17:01 PM
I'm not taking either side in this SMG debate, but I just want to say that even though 7 million people may have bought SMG2 there was still 7 billion (give or take) people who did not, so its kinda debatable what can be considered a minority or majority here.
Also, just because a game sells well doesn't necessarily mean people love it. Millions of people bought Wii Play and it was the best selling non-pack in title on the Wii, but that doesn't necessarily mean people loved it or that it is classic material.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 28, 2012, 11:20:09 PM
By minority I of course did not mean of the entire population of the planet, but rather of the people who played the games.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2012, 11:49:59 PM
By the Planet definition me being a White Male is a Minority. Where are my Handouts and Large sway?
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 29, 2012, 12:16:31 AM
But I know if I did a poll on these forums on whether Pikmin 2 was a classic the result would be overwhelmingly in favor of yes. In the same way that Radiant Silvergun is regarded as a classic despite being on the fucking Saturn and selling 14 copies, low sales don't prevent something from being a classic.
You're making far too many assumptions for why Galaxy 2 sold the way it did. And even if you're right, 7 million people still wanted another Galaxy game, which seems like plenty of people.
I'm sorry you don't like the Galaxy games, but you are in the minority. Many people will regard it as a classic, and ten years from now when sites are doing retrospectives on the Wii they will be listed as games to go back and play, because they are great games. History will be on my side.
Your definition of a classic is basically: if 1 person thinks a game is a classic then it's a classic. Why bother even arguing such a thing then? The vast majority of Wii owners passed over SMG 1 and even more ignored SMG 2. Invent whatever reason you see fit to think that's a good thing for a games legacy.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 29, 2012, 12:24:48 AM
Virtually every game ever released was passed on by the vast majority of people who owned the system. The only real exception is stuff like Super Mario Bros. or Wii Sports that was packed in with the hardware.
A classic can't just be from one person, but you can be one with a lot less than 7 million.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 29, 2012, 12:43:54 AM
By minority I of course did not mean of the entire population of the planet, but rather of the people who played the games.
But the people who played the game and the people who bought it are largely one and the same, and there's no way to determine how many of those 7 million liked or disliked it.
You say that poster who disliked it is in the minority, but how do you really know that? I'm assuming he bought the game so he would be counted in that 7 million figure. Its very possible there are others who share his sentiments.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 29, 2012, 12:49:54 AM
I'm going to go ahead and assume that if a statistically significant proportion of the game's owners disliked it there probably would have been at least one of the 88 reviews the game got that gave it less than a 9.
I don't doubt that there are people who fit that description, but I've never personally run into one myself, since marty claims to have never played it.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 29, 2012, 12:50:45 AM
Your definition of a classic is basically: if 1 person thinks a game is a classic then it's a classic. Why bother even arguing such a thing then? The vast majority of Wii owners passed over SMG 1 and even more ignored SMG 2. Invent whatever reason you see fit to think that's a good thing for a games legacy.
The only videogames in history to sell to a majority of their console userbase is the original Super Mario Bros and Wii Sports because like insanolord said, they were packed in with the hardware. But both games had sequels that sold much worse which by your previous logic with Mario Galaxy, means those games can't be classic either.
So basically no game is a classic then. According to your own definition, in order for a game to be considered a classic it has to sell to a majority of the systems userbase and have a sequel that sells just as good or better. Since no game has ever done something like that, nothing can be a classic by your own words.
Once again, do you not realize how flawed your logic is? Your saying nothing on the Wii will be considered a classic, for reasons that would make it impossible for any game on any system to be considered a classic.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 29, 2012, 12:57:39 AM
Yeah, Super Mario Bros. 3 only sold 18 million copies, which is less than half the 40 million that Super Mario Bros. sold. Clearly most people didn't like them very much.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Evan_B on June 29, 2012, 01:51:22 AM
GUH.
This argument. It is ridiculous.
What will be considered a classic will be the games that Video Gaming Opinion Eds ten years from now will put on their "Best Games of All Time" lists.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 29, 2012, 01:53:59 AM
What will be considered a classic will be the games that Video Gaming Opinion Eds ten years from now will put on their "Best Games of All Time" lists.
I agree. But some people seem to have knowledge of the future.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 29, 2012, 09:37:06 AM
I don't want to get into the discussion of what makes a video a "classic" because I'm pretty sure the whole thing is just a lame troll attempt.
I will say that the definition doesn't really matter anyway: being deemed a "classic" or not doesn't matter when talking about games of overwhelming quality that deserve to get played. Many of my favorite older games right now aren't "classics", but are high quality games that remain incredibly fun to play and are worth going back to. Others are simply nostalgic throwbacks that I experienced with friends in my youth and have fond memories of. Some are critical darlings that were largely missed on release but have since built up a cult status. A few were instant hits that maintained that popularity ever since they were first released. But I still go back and enjoy all of them - so what difference does it make which are "classics"?
Wii has games that fit all of the descriptions I listed above... so whether they end up being "classics" by your narrow definition or not, they are games that will be worth playing again and again for years to come. More to the point, every console has at least a couple of these games - even failed systems like Virtual Boy, Sega Saturn, or 3DO.
This is all off-topic though. The question is which is better: Wii or GameCube. If you are arguing that GameCube has more "classic" games then offer some support for the console you prefer instead of just spewing junk about the one you don't like as much.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 29, 2012, 02:47:31 PM
I said that Nintendo stopped making classic games by the time the Wii came out, that's why GCN is the better system. I stand by that statement. Nintendo's Wii games are going to serve as the benchmark for a quality game in 10 years? Not a chance.
The flow of responses is just f___ing sad at this point.
Sooo.... Evan_b and Kairon are just going to listen to whatever anyone on an unnamed gamer site tells them is a good game and mindlessly agree. Luigi dude apparently can't understand english because he thinks I said that sales=classic despite never having said anything of the sort, the troll. ejamer thinks anyone with an opinion other than his must be trolling. And insanolord thinks that pretty much any game that anyone ever liked is a classic--especially if it were an unpopular game on an unpopular Nintendo system that were to be voted for on a Nintendo-centric website as if that wasn't the lamest attempt to validate a weak, lame opinion.
like I said, F_ING SAD.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ThePerm on June 29, 2012, 02:49:40 PM
Im going to go with Gamecube, but Wii has the better Mario games, but by default Wii should win since its backwards compatible.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on June 29, 2012, 03:37:34 PM
I would say that Nintendo's catalogue of games on Wii was better. Two Galaxy games, Metroid Prime Trilogy (which improved the gamecubes originals), Sin & Punishment 2, Xenoblade, DKCR, Epic Yarn, Punch Out!! Brawl etc.
The Wii definitely had some missteps (Other M and Skyward Sword) but overall the bredth and depth of the Wii's line-up was more enjoyable for me. Not to mention that the Virtual Console has given me hundreds of hours of enjoyment through an impressive library of classic games.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Evan_B on June 29, 2012, 04:04:49 PM
Sooo.... Evan_b and Kairon are just going to listen to whatever anyone on an unnamed gamer site tells them is a good game and mindlessly agree. Luigi dude apparently can't understand english because he thinks I said that sales=classic despite never having said anything of the sort, the troll. ejamer thinks anyone with an opinion other than his must be trolling. And insanolord thinks that pretty much any game that anyone ever liked is a classic--especially if it were an unpopular game on an unpopular Nintendo system that were to be voted for on a Nintendo-centric website as if that wasn't the lamest attempt to validate a weak, lame opinion.
like I said, F_ING SAD.
Whatever, man. I buy games that I want to play- and I don't like Super Mario Galaxy that much, but I will admit it's quite a great platformer. I also buy Sonic the Hedgehog games despite the amount of reviews that suck. I buy games that I think I will enjoy, and if I don't- well, tough luck, I tried. But I can also see merit in a game. I also tend to go by my gut feeling, which is why I supported Operation Rainfall's message to localize a game like Xenoblade Chronicles- a game I had never played, yet, by looking at trailers, knew that I wanted to.
See, this entire time you haven't stated what YOU think makes a classic, unless I am to consider that you think "classics" are a benchmark of quality, ten years from now. And you know what? I'm gonna say yeah, a lot of Wii-exclusive Nintendo games will be remembered for their quality. You don't see random floating people in Skyward Sword or SMG, or odd glitches that break the game completely.
You should probably also wait about ten years before you say a game won't be remembered as a classic, either. But, that's the last time I'm going to talk to you directly, because you're jumping to conclusions about other people just so you can accuse them of being "sad", and that's not cool.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 29, 2012, 04:14:24 PM
... ejamer thinks anyone with an opinion other than his must be trolling. ...
I want to be very clear that many (maybe most?) people here have strongly held, different opinions than I do - but certainly aren't trolls or trolling. They express a full opinion and back it up with well through-out reasons, and tend to support what they like instead of just bash what they don't.
There is one person who I feel needs to improve their rhetoric if they want to avoid a "troll" designation... But please don't accuse me of saying everyone with a different opinion is a troll.
Did Phantasy Star Online have a single player mode, or was it only online? My curiosity is growing, but I'm not willing to jump through any hoops (ie: tracking down a GameCube broadband adapter) to get online play working...
Single-player offline mode. Also, MULTIPLAYER OFFLINE mode with no need for a broadband adapter. It was very addictive.
Moving back to a happier topic:
I think you've sold me on this game. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 29, 2012, 05:28:26 PM
Sooo.... Evan_b and Kairon are just going to listen to whatever anyone on an unnamed gamer site tells them is a good game and mindlessly agree.
If we just listened to random people on unnamed gamer sites tell us which games are good and which games are classics, mindlessly agreeing with them as you say, don't you think you'd be having an easier time by now?
Did Phantasy Star Online have a single player mode, or was it only online? My curiosity is growing, but I'm not willing to jump through any hoops (ie: tracking down a GameCube broadband adapter) to get online play working...
Single-player offline mode. Also, MULTIPLAYER OFFLINE mode with no need for a broadband adapter. It was very addictive.
Moving back to a happier topic:
I think you've sold me on this game. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!
Haha! Have you ever played any PSO before?
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: marty on June 29, 2012, 05:40:53 PM
If we just listened to random people on unnamed gamer sites tell us which games are good and which games are classics, mindlessly agreeing with them as you say, don't you think you'd be having an easier time by now?
Easier time with what? I gave my opinion and elaborated. No one has refuted anything I said. Disagreed with and/or complained and bitched about it? yes.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Retro Deckades on June 29, 2012, 05:42:34 PM
If I were to weigh in on this topic, I would probably start by comparing similar games across the two systems, starting with Nintendo's own franchises. Super Mario Sunshine vs. Super Mario Galaxy/Super Mario Galaxy 2? I prefer the latter. Wario World vs. Wario Land: Shake It!? Admittedly, two very different types of games, but I prefer Shake It!, hands down. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker vs. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword? In this case, I can exclude Twilight Princess, as it was released on both systems...
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 29, 2012, 05:44:55 PM
If we just listened to random people on unnamed gamer sites tell us which games are good and which games are classics, mindlessly agreeing with them as you say, don't you think you'd be having an easier time by now?
Easier time with what? I gave my opinion and elaborated. No one has refuted anything I said. Disagreed with and/or complained and bitched about it? yes.
Easier time with getting us to agree with you. But I'm cool with it if we're at the point where we all agree to disagree regarding your opinion about how the Wii had no classic games.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 29, 2012, 06:07:28 PM
I said that Nintendo stopped making classic games by the time the Wii came out, that's why GCN is the better system. I stand by that statement. Nintendo's Wii games are going to serve as the benchmark for a quality game in 10 years? Not a chance.
The flow of responses is just f___ing sad at this point.
Sooo.... Evan_b and Kairon are just going to listen to whatever anyone on an unnamed gamer site tells them is a good game and mindlessly agree. Luigi dude apparently can't understand english because he thinks I said that sales=classic despite never having said anything of the sort, the troll. ejamer thinks anyone with an opinion other than his must be trolling. And insanolord thinks that pretty much any game that anyone ever liked is a classic--especially if it were an unpopular game on an unpopular Nintendo system that were to be voted for on a Nintendo-centric website as if that wasn't the lamest attempt to validate a weak, lame opinion.
like I said, F_ING SAD.
If it's not people remembering it fondly and it's not sales, what are you arguing makes a game a classic? I suppose we should have done this a while ago, as the first step to any debate should be defining your terms.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 29, 2012, 06:23:07 PM
I think you've sold me on [Phantasy Star Online I & II for GameCube]. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!
Haha! Have you ever played any PSO before?
No, but the game sounds interesting enough from the Wikipedia description. The fact that I can even play offline multiplayer mode (assuming I can round up a few friends) is also very appealing. Many online-enabled games today seem to depend completely on access to servers to be "worth playing", sometimes I wonder how many great experiences will be lost for future generations once those servers are no longer available.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Kairon on June 29, 2012, 06:26:30 PM
I think you've sold me on [Phantasy Star Online I & II for GameCube]. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!
Haha! Have you ever played any PSO before?
No, but the game sounds interesting enough from the Wikipedia description. The fact that I can even play offline multiplayer mode (assuming I can round up a few friends) is also very appealing. Many online-enabled games today seem to depend completely on access to servers to be "worth playing", sometimes I wonder how many great experiences will be lost for future generations once those servers are no longer available.
I hope you find it enjoyable! Honestly, I got addicted that that game, and had to force myself to quit after hitting level 42 or something. It seriously had that WoW-like effect of self-hating addiction that it did to me. It's also a.... well, I was a Force (Magic User) trying to use guns, so I was already making things hard on myself, but it's definitely not an action game, and you have to learn the intricacies of the game's auto-targeting system so that you actually hit a monster who's two-feet away from you. Just a word of warning is all, it's definitely not a Nintendo game where stuff just seems to magically all make sense. Oh, and play a Force only if you want hardmode. T-T
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Sarail on June 29, 2012, 07:57:15 PM
I think you've sold me on [Phantasy Star Online I & II for GameCube]. Now if I can just find an affordable copy!
Haha! Have you ever played any PSO before?
No, but the game sounds interesting enough from the Wikipedia description. The fact that I can even play offline multiplayer mode (assuming I can round up a few friends) is also very appealing. Many online-enabled games today seem to depend completely on access to servers to be "worth playing", sometimes I wonder how many great experiences will be lost for future generations once those servers are no longer available.
Oh, man. Are you in for a treat then. I loved playing PSO back during the GameCube days. My brother and I spent hundreds of hours online playing with friends and randoms. So many good times. And the offline is just as good, too!
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 29, 2012, 09:07:46 PM
I played the hell out of the original PSO on the Dreamcast. I love that game. It'd be amazing if they made a new one for 3DS, as I'd love to have it on a handheld and would be more interested in the sci-fi setting than the similar Monster Hunter.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Adrock on June 29, 2012, 11:58:24 PM
I didn't like Phantasy Star Online at first but it grew on me. My brother LOVED that game.
Phantasy Star 0 was almost the game I wanted it to be. For a DS game, it was pretty competent but it was still held back by the hardware. I'd love to see a sequel on 3DS, but I'd be just as happy with a port of Phantasy Star Online 2 on Wii U. I think it's currently PC and Vita only. Boo-urns.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 30, 2012, 12:12:34 AM
That's basically exactly how I feel about PS0. The DS just didn't have what it takes to pull it off. It did as well as it could with what it had to work with.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: TrueNerd on June 30, 2012, 01:03:09 PM
One system had two original Pikmin games. One had none. End of argument.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on June 30, 2012, 01:48:36 PM
One system had two original Pikmin games. One had none. End of argument.
One system had vastly improved IR pointer controlled versions of two Pikmin games. One had none. Start of argument...I kid, I kid. Seriously though, those Wii versions are pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: ejamer on June 30, 2012, 02:45:15 PM
Kinda sorta related to Pikmin games: the lack of pointer controls in Little King's Story was the biggest letdown in that game. Not that playing with traditional controls was bad, but sometimes having pointer controls can make the experience a bit smoother and more intuitive. (You can probably guess where I fall on the NPC vs original debate.)
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on June 30, 2012, 03:36:08 PM
Kinda sorta related to Pikmin games: the lack of pointer controls in Little King's Story was the biggest letdown in that game. Not that playing with traditional controls was bad, but sometimes having pointer controls can make the experience a bit smoother and more intuitive. (You can probably guess where I fall on the NPC vs original debate.)
I totally agree. As much as I thought LKS was a charming and funny take on the Pikmin formulae, I also thought that the failure to utilise the pointer was a missed opportunity, especially given that the game's difficulty became such an issue towards the latter half, and much of that difficulty I believe was caused by the lack of a more nuanced control scheme. Still a good game though.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on July 01, 2012, 06:01:11 AM
I feel like I'm walking into the lion's den coming into this debate so late.
Anyway, this is a tough one. On the one hand, the Gamecube was probably the last console I had while at a young enough age that I was susceptible to truly having my mind blown by things I hadn't seen before. I miss that childlike sense of awe. That's not to say that I'm such a miserable, cynical bastard now that I'm no longer impressed or excited by anything - on the contrary, some of my favourite games ever have been in the last few years. But you know that feeling you got when you were younger, when you see something for the first time, like a Super Mario 64 or an Ocarina of Time? I really hope someone understands what I'm talking about. It was also at a time when I would much more commonly have friends over to play multiplayer games. The fact is, there was a point in my life when I would play Smash Bros. Melee every day with my mates from school. I have more memories of those kind of experiences with the Gamecube.
On the other hand, the Wii has been one of the forerunners of this 'retro revival' wave that has been gradually sweeping this generation of gaming. This generation, 2D platformers have come back in a big way, and so have numerous other genres that were thought to have died one or two generations ago. Old franchises are back and they all have that familiar feel, but with a crisp, fresh modern sheen over them. In a time where shooters and big budget action titles rule the day, the Wii is a safe haven for a good old platform challenge, or an adventure, or a clever puzzle. And when I look at my collection of Wii games, I can point to a decent number and say that probably wouldn't exist on another platform.
That's my stance. I'm not going to pick which is better; ultimately it would be a pretty arbitrary decision.
Title: Re: Which was better: GameCube or Wii?
Post by: Caterkiller on July 01, 2012, 03:19:19 PM
... Sunshine was Mario's lowest point, the graphics weren't that hot, everyone(generalizing) but me hated fludd ...
I honestly stopped reading there. I liked fludd and thought he was a good solution to a 3D problem.
You have to be joking on the graphics right?
Sunshine and Galaxy really aren't that far apart and in some areas of Sunshine if you didn't know better you think graphically they were the same game.
About the graphics, I expected something as good looking as Luigi's Mansion. Despite being a completely different type of game, I assumed Sunshine coming long after that would have produced better visuals or at least on par. Sunshine and Galaxy share the same style but Galaxy is leagues above it in the visual department. And when I say Sunshine was Mario's lowest point, I should have clarified that I was regarding popularity. The entire aspect of cleaning and every level being more or less tropical island based was not looked on favorably like other Mario titles. Don't get me wrong I loved every moment of it, and love it more than M64, but at the time when child friendly games were less acceptable in the hardcore gaming world, Mario Sunshine was looked down upon. That commercial in America alone started so much hate.
