Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: sweetfeathery on July 17, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Title: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: sweetfeathery on July 17, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Let me just note that my main point isn't made until half way through the post... please be patient or as I tie in everything together :)
Its hard for me to write this post. On one had I do not want to look like another ranting fan bashing a console that is less than a year old, but I have to remind myself how much I have stood by for Nintendo over the years and watched poor management decisions play into the current state Nintendo is in. [/size][/color] [/size]Nintendo set the world on fire when they launched the Wii. I remember working at GameStop monitoring the line of people go in and get their consoles. One guy had a power glove on and had it play a Zelda chime as he held the Wii system up above his head when his transaction had finished. I remember the months that followed getting the calls "Do you have the Wii in stock?" and "Why can't I find the damn thing?!" They launched it perfectly. The console came with Wii Sports, a game that once you picked up the tv style remote and realized that to swing the bowling ball on screen you made the motion yourself you just HAD to have one. Everyone wanted to get it for their work place, their kids, or college dorm rooms. This overwhelming success showed that Nintendo was not leaving the home console market to the many who had stated during the GameCube era that it was its only option. [/size] [/size]The Wii was not the only product that they had in their catalog. They also held full control over the handheld market with the Nintendo DS, a system that not only could play Game Boy Advance games, but had, by that time, built up a solid amount of must have titles. The momentum kept going for Nintendo. They had launched Pokemon Diamond and Pearl in April of 2007 on the Nintendo DS which just about wiped any store clean that was carrying the console. Every kid had to own a DS for this game. They would go as far as to trade in their entire collection of games if it meant getting a high enough trade in credit to buy the DS and a copy of the new Pokemon. [/size] [/size]From that time on I was still working at GameStop and saw the Wii continue its strong sales. Games like Super Smash lead the way and no one could get their hands on Mario Kart due to the game being printed in one part of the world and the wheel peripheral in another. Yet Nintendo dropped another "catch the world on fire" product on us known as Wii Fit. Another exercise product that would ultimately share a spot in the closet with all our other workout equipment, but still have made a big mark on the game industry as a whole. Now doctors wanted to have a Wii to put in their offices for kids to use, and elderly waned it for their retirement homes for something to do if they were not playing Wii Bowling or watching Jeopardy. Getting a Wii was still hard to get a hold of without having to call store to store, but now Nintendo had put this on the market?! We just had more to talk and joke about at work with how bad the inventory was coming through. [/size] [/size]Microsoft and Sony eventually caught wind, Sony tried to cash in with the Move controller.... yeah I'm not going to say anymore there. But then Microsoft had launched the Kinect, which was a open attack on Nintendo's casual market. It was around that time people who had a Wii were getting "bored" with it and wanted something "cooler". If I can translate what this meant, it was the fact that kids who bought the Wii at launch were now in their teenage years, and the growing popularity of playing Call of Duty online was what was more appealing to them... not playing Wii Sports. [/size] [/size]People were moving onto the more powerful HD consoles for experiences that were not capable on the Wii. Game "ports" were rubbish and the system was cluttered with party and music games. There were some third party developers who threw in the towel at delivering core games for the Wii due to the fact that the systems controls were now feeling more like a gimmick and with low preforming hardware specs, it was more appealing to make games on the Xbox and Playstation. [/size] [/size]I am going to stop reminiscing about the past because it is this point in time that I want to discuss. Nintendo should have realized early on, that if they could not release a strong line up of year one titles then they would had to do something different. Nintendo has gained so much strength with the Wii and DS, but they chose to go into this fight playing it safe. It knew that the threat of more powerful consoles was coming. They knew that the biggest strength it had for convincing the consumer to invent in their new home console would be the fact Nintendo is the only console that can have Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon played on it. [/size] [/size]Back when the decline began, Nintendo should have put together a team to approach and pitch their catalog of Nintendo IPs to outside developers, who had the experience needed for creating games on a HD console.They would offer to fully fund any game that was established from a current Nintendo franchise. Nintendo still has the money to heavily invest in developers who could explore new worlds within their established IPs. Imagine if you will if we had seen showcased at e3 2012 launch titles such as Star Fox, Metroid, Kirby, the F Zero series, Kid Icarus and even bigger properties from Nintendo like The Legend of Zelda and Mario (Super Mario RPG 2 anyone?). [/size] [/size]I'm going out on a limb here, but Nintendo could have even have reached out to studios like Bioware, Bethesda, and Blizzard and offered to fully fund any game that they would come up with for the Wii U console. This could range from a western take on a Nintendo license or a new western IP that will only be found on the Wii U. [/size] [/size]I am not trying to make this post into a "should have, could have". I want this to be a wake up call to Nintendo! Nintendo needs to stop sitting on their hands telling us that they don't know how to release a new F Zero! Now is the time to get aggressive! It's likely that the Wii U will pick up within the next year, but the first year could have been Nintendo's year. A year that the Wii U would have had to itself with potential system selling titles. A year to show that the drought we suffered through with the Wii had paid off. Nintendo missed this opportunity but it still has time to right these wrongs.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Kytim89 on July 17, 2013, 08:54:26 PM
I agree with the point of this topic. The thing that the Wii U needs besides a price cut is games. Nintendo needs to contract all of its western partners to make such games as Star Fox, Metroid, and F-Zero to name a few. They need to money hat certain strategic third party developers (T2/Rockstar and GTA V), but not the whole industry.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 17, 2013, 09:41:13 PM
Nintendo could and still could have released Wii U viritual console support by allowing all the Wii virtual console games to be played within the Wii U. Then as they upgrade the game to allow Wii U features a friend message tells them an update is available for a small price. Buying the games for the first time on the Wii U gives you the update free when it is available.
Instantly, makes the Wii U library tolerable. Specially if they do it with Wiiware games as well.
Nintendo could start seeing they have TOO many controller options and downsizing the options. Make the Wiimote and nunchuk a combo for the same price as the wiimote now. Then Offer Wiimote, Pro Controller, and Tablet are the only options.
Nintendo could begin talking to 3rd parties and arranging them to design 2nd tier Nintendo IPs for the Wii U. Announce the partnerships now and why the teams were hand picked for the projects. Make it a huge announcement with several key games being developed. Give the team 2 years to develop the game so people know it is coming sooner than later. Some games could be made perhaps in 1 year.
Create a robust account and online structure to play games.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Kytim89 on July 17, 2013, 10:09:38 PM
Here is a list of things off the top of my head that Nintendo needs to do to make the Wii U successful:
Cut the price down to $299.99
Money hat certain strategic game developers (Square-Enix with FFXV and KH 3)
Task Retro, Platinum, NLG, and Monster Games with revitalizing old franchises and IPs.
Purge the normal Wiis from retail shelves to avoid brand confusion.
Cut the price of the Wii U Pro controller from $49.99 to $19.99 or $29.99
Hire more staff to accommodate bigger game projects.
Extend an olive branch to third parties that have shied away from Nintendo consoles (Bethesda, for example)[size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 17, 2013, 10:54:22 PM
Cutting the price of the Pro Controller would have zero impact on sales of the system, plus $50 is standard for controllers (actually, $60 is).
Brand confusion is not a problem, and Wii still sells.
Bethesda would have problems with games like Elder Scrolls (which are notorious for being bug filled) passing certification.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: pokepal148 on July 17, 2013, 11:25:30 PM
but right now a remote plus is a much better value then the pro controller
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 18, 2013, 12:09:52 AM
How so? Plus, more Wii U games support the Pro Controller compared with the Wii Remote Plus. Besides, the Pro Controller is a secondary controller aimed mainly at multiplayer. The Pro Controller is about the same price as other controllers.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 18, 2013, 12:19:55 AM
I kinda do agree controller prices are too high. Seriously, I think it is completely possible to make the same quality controller at a good profit margin at 29.99 a classic controller and 39.99 for a full Wiimote nunchuk controller.
And you say, that it won't help people decide what system to buy, but people add up the price of individual accessories all the time. They know exactly what it costs to play the games with friends. And this is vitally important for Nintendo, because they are trying to sell their system on the asymmetric gaming. Which means to play it proper you need that multiplayer experience.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 18, 2013, 12:43:37 AM
Again, the Pro Controller is the same price as the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 controllers, so they essentially cancel each other out.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 18, 2013, 01:14:37 AM
Not the point. The point is all consoles are ripping the players off with the price of extra controllers. And if you could show potential customers that your product is an all around value in every aspect of gaming, extra accessories included you may get more buyers...and you may get more support for traditional games and multiplayer games as well.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: pokepal148 on July 18, 2013, 01:20:59 AM
not really because currently for every pro controller you will want a wii remote plus as well.
in order to have the best possible multiplayer experience you would need 4 pro controllers, 4 remote plus controllers and 4 nunchucks
on the ps3/360 you only need to purchase 3 more of their respective controllers
Idk about you but I'm getting some copies of flingsmash on black Friday
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 18, 2013, 01:23:52 AM
um, wrong pokepal. Not sure what games you are playing that support 9 players. For maximum multiplayer, you need 3/4 extra Pro Controllers OR 3/4 Wii Remotes (sometimes Nunchuks). Most multiplayer games give the option of a Pro Controller and/or Wii Remote. Not sure what makes you think you need 4 of each. Plus, my experience shows that most gamers will bring a controller to a friends house.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: pokepal148 on July 18, 2013, 01:35:40 AM
Nintendoland does not support the pro controller(neither did nsmb before the patch) and I'm sure there will be plenty of multiplayer games that don't support the Wii Remote
also how many gamers currently own a wii u ;)
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 18, 2013, 01:38:26 AM
That is FAR from typical, and you know it. Especially as those were launch games, and most Wii U owners at launch likely had Wii systems (and thus plenty of Wii Remotes). Still doesnt explain why you think Wii U owners would need so many controllers (especially as I doubt the number of people who will play with 4 other people in person at once is miniscule).
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: pokepal148 on July 18, 2013, 02:48:08 AM
the fact is to completely support a second player costs more on the wii u then it does on the ps3/360. that is what I'm trying to get across while you keep dancing along to the tune of the old chewbacca defense.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Ymeegod on July 18, 2013, 09:27:48 AM
"Nintendo needs to contract all of its western partners to make such games as Star Fox, Metroid, and F-Zero to name a few."
Well handing over IP's hasn't helped Nintendo in the past, Namco's Starfox or Team Ninja's Metroid ended up hurting the IPs image and future sales.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 18, 2013, 10:04:01 AM
Yet, giving Retro Donkey Kong and Metroid helped raise their image. It isn't who is developing it. It is the quality of the developed game.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Ceric on July 18, 2013, 10:15:05 AM
So someone want to rename this thread to:
"Gamers Feel Molested over Controllers Costing the same as 1 Game"?
Getting the full Kingdom Heart series as a collection or similar would be a big win for Nintendo. I think that series actually fits well with Nintendo Demographics.
They need more games plain and simple.
More Downloadable games. More VC Games. More Retail Games.
They are just lacking at the moment. In the Internet age we all know with barely any effort when something is released throughout the world. NoA region needs to have release date Parity with the rest of Nintendo and with other consoles. We are getting Cloudberry Kingdom last. Its only by a few days but still last for nothing more then administrative reasons. Early or Parity.
Stop holding the VC hostage. Its stupid to have to go to Wii Mode to get most VC Games. I don't have to go to DSi Mode to buy DSiWare games.
Wii on Gamepad. I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that you couldn't just pipe the output that is going to the HDMI Port to the Gamepad.
Updates in a more timely manner. We are still waiting on things that were announced early in that launch Window. Come on now.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Ymeegod on July 18, 2013, 12:20:08 PM
Retro Studios is 1st party developer, meaning Nintendo had fully control over the quality which is a lot different that allowing an 3rd party team at it's IP.
Sega's Fzero was the only one that developed an "Nintendo" quality game. 1 for 3 isn't that great in terms of odds.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 18, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
And Miyamoto doesn't seem to think F-Zero GX was any good, so in the eyes of Nintendo all three of those were failures, although that's not counting stuff like Luigi's Mansion and Punch-Out from Next Level Games, who Nintendo seems to be very high on.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 18, 2013, 01:34:05 PM
The overall issue seems to be that the Wii U needs games and Nintendo cannot crank them out fast enough. So obviously expanding their teams and outsourcing to other devs is the way to improve that.
I feel that giving their own IPs to other devs has had inconsistent returns. But then publishing other dev's games, like they're doing with Platinum, will expand the Wii U library without any risk of damaging existing Nintendo IP. Nintendo could even work a deal were they own the IP that the dev creates while Nintendo is footing the bill.
In regards to the controller thing - no one is not buying a Wii U because the controller is too expensive. Having cheaper ones than the competition would be a good thing (and they should NOT have controllers that are more expensive) but wouldn't cause a sudden spike in sales. It's all so minor compared to the lack of games. Let's take care of the plank before the sliver. If the Wii U gets the games and still doesn't sell then we can start looking at the little things.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: sweetfeathery on July 18, 2013, 07:22:57 PM
The overall issue seems to be that the Wii U needs games and Nintendo cannot crank them out fast enough. So obviously expanding their teams and outsourcing to other devs is the way to improve that.
I feel that giving their own IPs to other devs has had inconsistent returns. But then publishing other dev's games, like they're doing with Platinum, will expand the Wii U library without any risk of damaging existing Nintendo IP. Nintendo could even work a deal were they own the IP that the dev creates while Nintendo is footing the bill.
Couple of points I would make Ian. Wouldn't you like to see titles get another shot at life that Nintendo isn't going to make themselves? We already heard Miyamoto come right out and say that they don't know what to do with F Zero, so why not let another developer take a whack at it? Nintendo funding outside devs to make new IPs for the Wii U is a win-win situation for everyone. A company like Bioware, for all we know, has a new game idea locked away they would love to make but can't get the green light from EA due to it not being another guaranteed blockbuster title. What if Nintendo knocked on their door and said "We want to see those ideas and we are ready to give you the financial support you would need." Granted, this would mean that Nintendo would have heavy control over the final product, but to have Nintendo giving the devs the financial backing to make something out of the ordinary for them has to be appealing.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: sweetfeathery on July 18, 2013, 07:26:49 PM
....can anyone tell me while we're here how I can quote someone, then break out of the quote? I tried quoting Ian and then couldn't get my response out of the quote box :(
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 19, 2013, 12:28:13 AM
....can anyone tell me while we're here how I can quote someone, then break out of the quote? I tried quoting Ian and then couldn't get my response out of the quote box :(
After you hit qoute. You you have to start your writing outside the [/quote
If you only want to quote part of the post you can delete the text inside the [quote and /quote[ brackets just make sure you don't delete the actuate code. Parenthesizes added by me for code purposes.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: shingi_70 on July 19, 2013, 07:43:02 AM
stop catering too only the child demographic which I think would be hard to do. Nintendo has had at least three times two make games that appeals its aging fanbase but hasn't.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 19, 2013, 07:58:58 AM
Actually, if Nintendo stopped catering the to all demographic crowd. (almost none of there games are only for kids) they would stop being Nintendo. They would also stop being a company I would care about. I like the games Nintendo makes precisely, because I know their games will be engaging, fun, and won't have questionable themes, graphic content, or language. This isn't because I am worried about my kid or anyone playing it...because I don't want to play it.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: EasyCure on July 19, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Agreed. Depending on the game certain "mature" content take me out of the game.
All the blood and foul language in Black Ops fits bit for some reason hearing thugs call Catwoman a bitch in AC is very off putting.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2013, 12:50:54 PM
That's actually the reason I haven't played Devil May Cry yet. I think I would enjoy the game itself alright but the Language in it would ruin the experience.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 19, 2013, 02:15:06 PM
A game for everyone = a game for the lowest common denominator. You can't make a game for everyone because as you accomodate this group you turn off that one. Nintendo thinks Wii Sports if for everyone. No, it's not for me because to accomodate non-gamers like my Mom the gameplay was so dumbed down that I found it boring. Games with kid-friendly themes have restrictions on story content, character development, themes and settings. I like variety in the movies I watch and the music I listen to so why wouldn't I also want that with videogames?
Since Nintendo has shitty third party support it is all the more important for them to provide variety on their console because no one else will. So then they make everything kid friendly and that makes everything start to feel the same. If they want to just stick to the same routine then they need to work to improve third party support. If they're not going to do that they need to provide the variety themselves.
Plus some of my favourite Nintendo games like Perfect Dark, Eternal Darkness and Xenoblade were not restricted to kid-friendly content. While the Metroid series does not reach an 'M' rating it clearly has a less kid-focused style than other Nintendo franchises. Nintendo is capable of making great mature games without just resorting to juvenile swearing and boobs. And not all "mature" content is immature. You would have a hard time making a horror game with an E rating for example or something like Heavy Rain or BioShock.
And I think the most important thing is that I want Nintendo to be creative and if they insist on making games for only one broad audience they limit their creativity.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: marty on July 19, 2013, 02:24:00 PM
Nintendo really needs to get with it when it comes to VC/e-Shop. games should be tied to an account a la steam/gog and playable on any capable hardware (3ds/Wii/WiiU/future systems). I haven't bought anything downloadable from Ninty in years and won't until they can at least match the convenience of steam (which I pretty much only use if humble bundle or gog doesn't have what I want... or if the steam sale is like 1$ and I don't care).
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: ThePerm on July 20, 2013, 02:17:51 AM
lowering the cost of the pro controller couldn't hurt sales.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: nickmitch on July 20, 2013, 02:42:42 AM
Bundling it with consoles might not hurt either.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on July 21, 2013, 12:33:58 AM
I think if they did these 4 things ASAP they could stimulate some sales and at least shift some more units in the short term:
1) Cut the price $50 - they have to do this, it's a no brainer 2) Release ALL of the VC games that were on Wii to the Wii U e-shop immediately (there is no acceptable reason why this hasn't been done already) 3) Add Dreamcast to the VC library with a nice handful of games available on day one 4) Advertise the Wii U as THE console for legally playing classic games, and throw in a $25 credit to the e-shop with the deluxe console
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Oblivion on July 21, 2013, 01:44:32 AM
2) Release ALL of the VC games that were on Wii to the Wii U e-shop immediately (there is no acceptable reason why this hasn't been done already)
They have. Pay $2 to do so.
What I meant was that someone who purchases a Wii U should be able to go to the one place and purchase any VC game that was released for the Wii or Wii U, and play them without having to go to the awkward Wii channel interface. If you have 2 different online stores with different account structures and payment options on your console, you have failed.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: shingi_70 on July 21, 2013, 06:05:30 PM
Well the first year of Wii U isn't through until novemmber. But looking back so far a few simple suggestons woud have put the Wii U in a more favorable light.
-Clearer and more focused Marketing and messaging, -A better launch line up. Pikmin 3 and Wii Fit U -Getting third party support through moneyhats. Rayman and Ghost recon online should be out and exclusive. -Having their first party and exclusive games have actual online multiplayer.
Looking toward the future we need.
-Multiplayer enabled first party games (its sad that Mario Kart will be the first proper online game on the system from nintendo_ -A bigger focus on digital content. Pokemon Rumble U is a good starting point but they need to go hard like they did with the 3DS eshop. -Better marketing starting this fall. -A price cut and new bundles.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: pokepal148 on July 21, 2013, 07:11:26 PM
2) Release ALL of the VC games that were on Wii to the Wii U e-shop immediately (there is no acceptable reason why this hasn't been done already)
They have. Pay $2 to do so.
What I meant was that someone who purchases a Wii U should be able to go to the one place and purchase any VC game that was released for the Wii or Wii U, and play them without having to go to the awkward Wii channel interface. If you have 2 different online stores with different account structures and payment options on your console, you have failed.
Nintendo is worried about the safety of the Wii U from hacking, and considering how easy it is to hack the original Wii they were right to cut off the weakest link, the last thing we need right now is some developers getting worried about piracy, Nintendo has to isolate the wii from the wii u in order to prevent the wii's exploits from following into the current generation.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 21, 2013, 08:08:41 PM
Ian you are wrong. Nintendo does not define a game for everyone in those terms. Those are terms you put upon the term.
Nintendo addresses games for everyone as a game without questionable content...or a game that can be played by anyone and most likely not offend anyone.
So there are many games that Nintendo has created that compromise nothing, but are games for everyone, anyone can play and do not contain questionable or reasonably objectionable content. Examples include almost everyone of their franchises:
Super Mario series, Legend of Zelda series, Wii series of games, Metroid series, Animal Crossing series, Pokemon series, F-Zero series, Advanced Wars series, Fire Emblem series, Kirby series...do I really need to go on?
Despite what rating these games ultimately got by the ratings boards, these games were designed with the potential for all kinds of gamers to enjoy. They often have unique and appealing art designs or gameplay styles that while resemble other games and genres feel uniquely Nintendo because how Nintendo looks at game design to appeal the largest demographic possible. Some people may see this as a compromise, but I don't. I love the feel and design methodology of Nintendo...and the series I listed above have usually not been compromised by appealing to a broad demographic of gamers.
However, I can not say the same is true for the biggest 3rd party games that go for a Mature rating...or even just try to make a game for an older demographic. They usually add content to the games just to get that PG-13 or R rating without any concern about what it actually adds to the game. I don't care if in real war my fellow soldiers will be using the F word or not in combat. I don't think it ever needs to be in the game. And if it IS used...it should be saved for a truly impacting event. The same is true about blood in games. I have no problem with blood in games, but most games have gone extremely gory just for the sake of being gory. It isn't realistic blood, it isn't important to the game play and sometimes it borders on torture porn type game violence. Completely unnecessary.
So I am completely pleased with how Nintendo approaches game design and I never want Nintendo to change to try to support a hardcore crowd or create Mature games just because some Nintendo fans believe Nintendo has to do this to survive.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on July 21, 2013, 10:44:33 PM
2) Release ALL of the VC games that were on Wii to the Wii U e-shop immediately (there is no acceptable reason why this hasn't been done already)
They have. Pay $2 to do so.
What I meant was that someone who purchases a Wii U should be able to go to the one place and purchase any VC game that was released for the Wii or Wii U, and play them without having to go to the awkward Wii channel interface. If you have 2 different online stores with different account structures and payment options on your console, you have failed.
Nintendo is worried about the safety of the Wii U from hacking, and considering how easy it is to hack the original Wii they were right to cut off the weakest link, the last thing we need right now is some developers getting worried about piracy, Nintendo has to isolate the wii from the wii u in order to prevent the wii's exploits from following into the current generation.
I'm not talking about playing Wii games at all, I don't care about Wii backward compatibility and I don't think many consumers do either. I'm talking about the Virtual Console. Nintendo should have converted all of the VC games from the Wii VC to the Wii U and had that ready to go in the store at launch. They could have left out off-TV play and added that over time, but the games themselves should have been there for purchase. Not through the clunky Wii Channel -> Wii Shop, but through the Wii U store. They should add Dreamcast support, and they should market the hell out of the VC.
As it stands today, they couldn't possibly market the VC for the Wii U because it's terrible - there are barely any games in the Wii U shop, and they obviously can't communicate to the average user how to go to the Wii Channel and use a totally different store with a different payment system to find the vast majority of the games. They have bungled this potentially killer feature in such fantastic fashion I can't even believe it.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 21, 2013, 11:59:28 PM
Bizzy Fatso: Yes I completely agree. The should of had the games available to buy. Advertise that they will be upgraded with new features in the future, not here they are now. It was quite silly for Nintendo not to have done this.
Since, they didn't do this...they should probably be upping the VC conversion teams and releasing 12-15 games a week on the Virtual console.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: pokepal148 on July 22, 2013, 12:19:30 AM
Nintendo doesn't have much control over the VC outside of their own games, that is part of the issue.
They can't mess with sonic or the 6 versions of street fighter or any other third party content, they can only mess with their own stuff and that is a very finite stream.
if they convert a game without permission of its licence holder they run the risk of legal action.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 22, 2013, 01:10:32 AM
That isn't much of a problem. You get with the publishers and you tell them your plans, and show them how it will make them money. BAM. Done.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: paleselan on July 23, 2013, 01:38:43 AM
*cough* Achievements! *cough*
Why would I ever buy a 3rd party game for Wii U when I could buy the game for PS3 and get trophies for completing the game. I don't get any rewards on Wii U for completing the game; but on PS3 I don't have to explicitely tell people I beat the game in order for them to know that I did.
I cannot understand why this hasn't been implemented yet.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Ceric on July 23, 2013, 11:27:54 AM
I actually think the whole achievement thing is a West vs Japan culture type of deal. Note that Sony didn't have achievements until it was clear that was something the West wanted and the West was where the market is. Nintendo is still a very Japan-centric company.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on July 23, 2013, 01:05:37 PM
I actually think the whole achievement thing is a West vs Japan culture type of deal. Note that Sony didn't have achievements until it was clear that was something the West wanted and the West was where the market is. Nintendo is still a very Japan-centric company.
Just more evidence of how out of touch Nintendo is - ignoring trends in the largest part of your market is generally not wise.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: paleselan on July 23, 2013, 05:16:06 PM
I love Nintendo, I really do. I buy every system they put out, and most of they games they put out as well. I'll be the first to point out their shortcomings as well, and the lack of achievements is one of them.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: pokepal148 on July 23, 2013, 05:19:51 PM
both Mario U and Nintendo Land feel like they were built in a way that would allow achievements to be retroactively implemented, I don't feel like its out of the question.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: RedBlue on July 23, 2013, 09:54:09 PM
both Mario U and Nintendo Land feel like they were built in a way that would allow achievements to be retroactively implemented, I don't feel like its out of the question.
I think Nintendo meant for miiverse to replace achievements in someway. In your example Mario U lets you brag about a level or boss you just finished and in my opinion that's the whole point of achievements.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: pokepal148 on July 23, 2013, 09:58:03 PM
both Mario U and Nintendo Land feel like they were built in a way that would allow achievements to be retroactively implemented, I don't feel like its out of the question.
I think Nintendo meant for miiverse to replace achievements in someway. In your example Mario U lets you brag about a level or boss you just finished and in my opinion that's the whole point of achievements.
EXACTLY, these things are already linked to miiverse so they could through an update add support for an achievement system
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on July 23, 2013, 10:25:24 PM
I think what would be sweet for VC is if after getting a Wii U and buying games on that, Wii VC games could come over for free when they come on Wii U VC. There are some systems I don't own, Turbo Grafx, Mega System, etc, that I would love to play some of the games available on Wii VC. But I won't buy Wii VC and then have to pay an upgrade fee later.
I think Nintendo can do mature right. I'm not talking overhyped gore or cursing. Just look at Eternal Darkness. It was very well done mature title with substantial oversight from Nintendo. I wouldn't necessarily like to see them cut down on family friendly titles, but it would be nice for them to pick up a developer to focus on mature titles like that.
Ian, I disagree that a game for everyone has to let you down. I'll admit that some of Nintendo's latest offerings have been lacking in depth (looking at you Wii Sports or Wii anything for that matter), but 2D Mario has been the core of Nintendo's stable of games for a while. It's a game that builds up challenge throughout the game and offers a very indepth experience. The beginning levels are easier and it is colorful and appropriate for any age. That is the quintessential for everyone game.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Soren on July 24, 2013, 01:35:06 AM
EXACTLY, these things are already linked to miiverse so they could through an update add support for an achievement system
Call me old-fashioned(and really, what's the deal with these kids that can't stay off the lawn...) but the only achievement that really matter is beating the game. And Miiverse already lets you brag about that.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 24, 2013, 03:28:35 AM
I think Miiverse was supposed to be Nintendo's social achievement system. Personally, I don't care about achievements. I know many people do because they feel they get more out of a game. But, honestly, I think it is padding for the game. Look, you beat the game...but can you beat this level without being seen? Can you beat this level without taking damage?
Honestly I don't care. I don't need to brag to my friends how good I am with achievements.
I don't want achievements. I would rather have more actual game. Or special levels with unique challenges...but not same content achievement stuff.
That being said, I know this is only my opinion and other gamers love achievements...so you should provide a system to make them for gamers. Still, I do not believe any gamer will choose one version of a game over another because of achievements.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 24, 2013, 12:56:45 PM
I don't give a damn at all about achievements... but they're the industry standard now so Nintendo should have included them. This "well you don't need X because we have Y" nonsense has been a problem since the N64. Nintendo needs to realize that when they make people choose, they often DON'T choose Nintendo. They should aim to match and exceed - to offer what the competition has plus more. Being better is good, being different means squat.
In regards to "everyone" games, there are tons of games for "everyone" that I love. But the concept is flawed because they don't end up appealing to everyone. They tried to appeal to everyone on the N64 and Nintendo was kiddy in the minds of teens and young adults. They tried to appeal to everyone on the Wii and Nintendo was seen as casual in the minds of more experienced gamers. Different people connect with different content. When Nintendo aims almost all of their content at "everyone" they are just making a lineup that appeals to those that connect with that type of content and no one else. Since the Playstation brand debuted, Sony's consoles that typically been considerably better recieved by the public than Nintendo's. The reason why is that the Playstations actually have a lineup that appeals to everyone. They have casual games and hardcore games, 'E' rated titles suitable for children and 'M' rated gorefests. All genres are accounted for (a big part of this is strong third party support) and all demographics. THAT is how you appeal to everyone. Different people connect with different games so you have a wide variety of games to ensure that anyone can buy your console and find something worth playing. Nintendo tries to achieve this by making almost all of their games suitable for all audiences. This results in ONE type of game that appeals to ONE type of person and no one else. You either connect with almost everything Nintendo makes or their console is damn near worthless to you with no middleground. And the sales reflect that as every Nintendo console except the Wii underperformed and the Wii succeeded on being a massive fad with ONE specific casual audience and was seen as irrelevent to everyone else. "Something for everyone" means all types of games for all audiences in your library, not having every game attempting to be suitable for everyone.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 24, 2013, 06:58:04 PM
I don't give a damn at all about achievements... but they're the industry standard now so Nintendo should have included them. This "well you don't need X because we have Y" nonsense has been a problem since the N64. Nintendo needs to realize that when they make people choose, they often DON'T choose Nintendo. They should aim to match and exceed - to offer what the competition has plus more. Being better is good, being different means squat.
In regards to "everyone" games, there are tons of games for "everyone" that I love. But the concept is flawed because they don't end up appealing to everyone. They tried to appeal to everyone on the N64 and Nintendo was kiddy in the minds of teens and young adults. They tried to appeal to everyone on the Wii and Nintendo was seen as casual in the minds of more experienced gamers. Different people connect with different content. When Nintendo aims almost all of their content at "everyone" they are just making a lineup that appeals to those that connect with that type of content and no one else. Since the Playstation brand debuted, Sony's consoles that typically been considerably better recieved by the public than Nintendo's. The reason why is that the Playstations actually have a lineup that appeals to everyone. They have casual games and hardcore games, 'E' rated titles suitable for children and 'M' rated gorefests. All genres are accounted for (a big part of this is strong third party support) and all demographics. THAT is how you appeal to everyone. Different people connect with different games so you have a wide variety of games to ensure that anyone can buy your console and find something worth playing. Nintendo tries to achieve this by making almost all of their games suitable for all audiences. This results in ONE type of game that appeals to ONE type of person and no one else. You either connect with almost everything Nintendo makes or their console is damn near worthless to you with no middleground. And the sales reflect that as every Nintendo console except the Wii underperformed and the Wii succeeded on being a massive fad with ONE specific casual audience and was seen as irrelevent to everyone else. "Something for everyone" means all types of games for all audiences in your library, not having every game attempting to be suitable for everyone.
Ian I think the problem is defining everyone. Nintendo defines games for everyoneas games anyone can play because there is no barrier like questionable content. They also try to make the games as approachable as possible...which goes into the art direction Nintendo supports.
However, by your definition Nintendo makes. Several games. With varying target markets. This is vastly different to Nintendo than making their games for everyone...because I believe Nintendo defines target markets by game genres more than ages. Take Pokemon...it is clearly designed for JRPG fans of all ages, but if you hate RPGs you will hate the game.
F-zero, Advanced Wars, Fire Emblem, Metroid, Zelda, Xenosaga...all these games fall into that approach.
Title: Re: What Nintendo could have done for year one (but can still implement!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 24, 2013, 07:08:29 PM
I'd argue very few games Nintendo makes are realistically targeted at everyone. Stuff like Nintendo Land fits the bill, and I'd put the New Super Mario Bros. games in that category, but can you honestly say that any Metroid game is designed to be played by all people? Zelda games have a high barrier to entry, despite Nintendo's attempts to mitigate that. Looking at the rest of the year, Pikmin is a very complex game once you get deep into it, and Donkey Kong Country is likely to be way too difficult for a large sector of the gaming populace to complete without heavy Super Guide use.
