Topic: This is what's wrong with current day Nintendo.

[shingi_70]

This is going to sound mean, but...

Hell look at somebody like Activsion who put a ton of money into skylanders a game I was sure was going to flop upon release.

Activision took a huge risk with Skylanders.

You were "sure" it was going to flop.

Skylanders turned into a freaking huge franchise, becoming the biggest selling new IP in years, winning several awards and changing how aspects of the market work.

You might not be the best judge on how Nintendo needs to go about turning their fortunes around.

Skylanders was poised to be a major force in the market from the moment it was first anounced.  Anyone who didn't see that... well, they missed that bus.

Again it was something but new and exciting something Nintendo hasn't done of late. I remember seeing it frist announced thinking it was a novell concept but hype wasn't really there.


Though i'm a twenty something who has no kids so I'm probably not a big barometer on this front.




I think Destiny is another project that can go either way in my eyes.

[UncleBob]

I guess what you first have to decide is do you want a creative and unique game or do you want a game that will sell millions and push systems?

We've got folks calling for the heads of Iwata and Miyamoto, saying that investors should be turning on them any time, but at the same time, asking for games that, frankly, won't impress investors with their sales (see: F-Zero).

In today's market, the kinds of sales that investors want aren't in line with the kinds of sales that truly creative titles get.  Take Odama, for instance.  Probably one of the most creative, unique and insane games made in the last 20 years (ancient Japanese pinball-based warfare!).  Yet, I'm one of about three people who bought that game new/at full retail.

In a perfect world, we'd have both groups of titles - with games like New Super Mario Bros. and Wii Fit funding titles like ExciteBots, Fire Emblem and Rhythm Heaven.  But the Wii U isn't to the point where we have games that sell 26 million copies to fund a new Fire Emblem.

And for those who want to focus on investors... Investors aren't keen on using sales from a game that sells 26 million copies to fund a game that sells half a million.  Why invest that money into a game that sells half a million when you can invest half as much money into reskinning the 26 million seller - and even if you only sell 1/4 of the copies, *bam* - you still sold 13 times the copies with half the investment.

Folks need to stop pretending like making gamers happy and making investors happy are the same thing.

[alegoicoe]

Nintendo has kind of lost perspective after the success of the Wii. Everything they are making is straight up sequels and that killer app aka Retro's game that was supposed to shut the critic's mouth about Wii U's lack of power came up to be DKC. Now, don't get me wrong I love DKC games, but putting Retro on this job is a waste, and that is where I think Nintendo has lost it, with their inability to turn the creative engines like back in the days and not worry about sales data as their primary objective.

[MrPhishfood]

Nintendo is a publicly traded company and are beholden to their shareholders. Despite what any of you may feel about what Nintendo owes you as a fan, they have to work to turn a profit to pay those dividends. Nintendo owes you nothing unless you're a shareholder.

You may think Miyamoto has a poor excuse, but really can you think of anything that would make F-Zero new and exciting, and turn it in to a commercial success?

Time is money and until someone can think of a solution then that time & money is best spent elsewhere.

[shingi_70]

Yet at the sametime Microsoft and Sony can pump out their Halo's and Uncharteds, while at the same time green lighting stuff like Journey and D4.
 
Still isn't profit relative to budget anyways. 

[Luigi Dude]

Yet at the sametime Microsoft and Sony can pump out their Halo's and Uncharteds, while at the same time green lighting stuff like Journey and D4.
 
Still isn't profit relative to budget anyways. 

And Nintendo green lights stuff like Xenoblade, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, The Wonderful 101, X and a whole other **** load of new IP's as well. 


Might want to do a little research before making stupid post like that again.

[Adrock]

I give Sony a bit more credit for greenlighting games other companies never would have touched. If Journey was pitched to Nintendo, Iwata would have laughed then released the hounds.

[Oblivion]

What makes you so certain?

[TJ Spyke]

Considering Nintendo made a GBA game that had you listening to the audio only and not even LOOKING at the screen (Soundvoyager, part of the Bit Generations series) and other experimental games in that series, I think they probably would have taken the chance on something like Journey.

[Adrock]

What makes you so certain?

Is this a serious question? Iwata is exactly the type of person who would have a concealed button to release aggressive dobermans. You don't get that impression from him?

[Oblivion]

 

[Evan_B]

The problem with F-Zero is that GX did essentially everything that was necessary for F-Zero to work in 3D, and it didn't sell well.

The only thing that Nintendo could do with F-Zero is play around with physics and give it online, and those things, in my opinion, aren't enough to justify a new game. Don't get me wrong, if GX is released on VC, more power to Nintendo. I'd buy it. But I really don't see the series evolving anymore.

[Spak-Spang]

Except that F-Zero GX wasn't accessible.  It is a very difficult game, and racing games tend to be played more casually.

I remember playing the first F-Zero, and it is a hard game, but accessible and easy to understand the basics.  I remember buying F-Zero 64 and the game become more difficult, but overall, still accessible, though the trend was starting to make the hovercrafts harder to handle....still with the beginner cars being so much easier to handle you could teach yourself how to play.

F-Zero GX piled on top of it. 

I think Nintendo could add some multiplayer features, add some new ideas to make the games fun and accessible and then give it good online support.  Don't spend an insane budget on the game.  I would probably keep the graphics around GX quality, but go for an insanely smooth framerate in all modes and with many cars...kinda like F-Zero 64 didn't focus on graphics too much. 

[the asylum]

People talk like the only mode GX had was hard mode. I'm far from a staff ghost beating pro at F-Zero, but roughly half of the game's content wasn't that challenging.

[broodwars]

People talk like the only mode GX had was hard mode. I'm far from a staff ghost beating pro at F-Zero, but roughly half of the game's content wasn't that challenging.

Granted, my gaming skills have come a long way since the GCN days, but back in the day I could never get beyond the 3rd story mission in GX (and I barely beat the 2nd after many failed attempts). The game was too damn hard, and it was on the GameCube. That's why it didn't do well.

[Kytim89]

I played Sonic All Star Racing Transformed at Target today and I am have to admit that I am convinced that Sumo Digital needs to be the one to handle a new F-Zero game for both the Wii U and 3DS.

[broodwars]

I played Sonic All Star Racing Transformed at Target today and I am have to admit that I am convinced that Sumo Digital needs to be the one to handle a new F-Zero game for both the Wii U and 3DS.

Sorry to have to point out the obvious, but Sumo's much better placed on Mario Kart, with actual autonomy to deviate from the Mario Kart formula. They showed that they know how to inject new life into the stale Kart racing genre w/ Racing Transformed, which Mario Kart desperately needs.

[Kytim89]

I played Sonic All Star Racing Transformed at Target today and I am have to admit that I am convinced that Sumo Digital needs to be the one to handle a new F-Zero game for both the Wii U and 3DS.

Sorry to have to point out the obvious, but Sumo's much better placed on Mario Kart, with actual autonomy to deviate from the Mario Kart formula. They showed that they know how to inject new life into the stale Kart racing genre w/ Racing Transformed, which Mario Kart desperately needs.

Why not both?

[broodwars]

I played Sonic All Star Racing Transformed at Target today and I am have to admit that I am convinced that Sumo Digital needs to be the one to handle a new F-Zero game for both the Wii U and 3DS.

Sorry to have to point out the obvious, but Sumo's much better placed on Mario Kart, with actual autonomy to deviate from the Mario Kart formula. They showed that they know how to inject new life into the stale Kart racing genre w/ Racing Transformed, which Mario Kart desperately needs.

Why not both?

Because they're not big enough, and modern Nintendo's too paranoid to let an external developer mess w/ two of their franchises.

[Luigi Dude]

Sorry to have to point out the obvious, but Sumo's much better placed on Mario Kart, with actual autonomy to deviate from the Mario Kart formula. They showed that they know how to inject new life into the stale Kart racing genre w/ Racing Transformed, which Mario Kart desperately needs.

Mario Kart DS - 25 million

Mario Kart Wii - 34 million

Mario Kart 7 - 8 million in a little over a year and growing


Oh yes, Nintendo needs to give one of their currently most successful series that already has a dedicated team to Sumo Digital instead of letting them work on a dead series that has no current team.  Yes that makes so much sense.   

[broodwars]

Sorry to have to point out the obvious, but Sumo's much better placed on Mario Kart, with actual autonomy to deviate from the Mario Kart formula. They showed that they know how to inject new life into the stale Kart racing genre w/ Racing Transformed, which Mario Kart desperately needs.

Mario Kart DS - 25 million

Mario Kart Wii - 34 million

Mario 3D Kart - 8 million in a little over a year and growing


Oh yes, Nintendo needs to give one of their currently most successful series that already has a dedicated team to Sumo Digital instead of letting them work on a dead series that has no current team.  Yes that makes so much sense.   

I'm speaking from a pure creative standpoint. Just because something sells in massive numbers, that doesn't necessarily mean it's good. Assassin's Creed and Madden sell in massive numbers every year, but that doesn't stop everyone from saying those series are (deservedly) stale as **** from sticking too close to their formula over too many entries. The same's true of Mario Kart. Hell, I'd argue that even the Assassin's Creed series has done more to change up its core experience than Mario Kart has.

[Caterkiller]

People talk like the only mode GX had was hard mode. I'm far from a staff ghost beating pro at F-Zero, but roughly half of the game's content wasn't that challenging.

Granted, my gaming skills have come a long way since the GCN days, but back in the day I could never get beyond the 3rd story mission in GX (and I barely beat the 2nd after many failed attempts). The game was too damn hard, and it was on the GameCube. That's why it didn't do well.

Not only was it released on the GameCube, it was released a day apart from Soul Calibur featuring realistic Link after everyone felt deprived after Wind Waker. I know I keep repeating myself but I'm going to keep repeating that point until someone remembers and acknowledges it.

F-Zero GX was insanely difficult. This is coming from someone who got the highest rank on every cup up to Master. The Grand Prix was nuts but I'm convinced story mode was made to shatter a man's psyche. I beat it, but only on the easiest difficulty possible. It was near impossible to unlock every character on the normal and hard settings.

F-Zero is almost too hard core.

[azeke]

I never got past that track in story mode that had all 90 degree turns. And that's like second track.

I barely beat samurai Goroh in his story mode level after like 200 tries or so.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Just a few miscellaneous thoughts.
 
As was discussed on RFN last week, history has proven that Nintendo is reluctant to create a new IP if they can instead fold original concepts and ideas into their existing stable of franchises. I don't see why Nintendo couldn't do that with F Zero. In my opinion, there actually is significant room within the racing genre for originality (particularly for a game as removed from reality as F Zero). Games like Blur, Excitebots and All-Stars Transformed have shown that you can put a really interesting twist on something as established as 'racing' and have it feel fresh.
 
Also, I can't say with certainty that a F Zero U would be profitable, but I do think that it would serve a useful function on the system. Most of those Nintendo franchises that have already come to Wii U, and those which have yet to see a release, are quite 'gentle' (for lack of a better word). In other words, they're cute and endearing, but they don't have much of an edge to them. Mario, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, DKC, Smash Bros, etc, they're all adorable, but sometimes it's all a little too much. Just as it's possible to have too much violence or mature content, having too much cuteness can also be off-putting. I think that's partially why I was so disappointed about the DKCR announcement, because Retro are one of the few Nintendo studios who I believe have the capacity to create something with a little more bite.
 
It is true that Nintendo are releasing X, and it's publishing Bayonetta and Wonderful 101, which will certainly go some way towards addressing that imbalance; but releasing something like F-Zero (or in my wildest dreams Sin & Punishment) would be exciting despite the fact that it's not exactly a new franchise. F Zero certainly isn't a mature game by any means, but it does have a different flavour to it. I don't necessarily want to see a bevy of Wii U games which contain knives through throats and blood splattered everywhere, but I do sometimes become a little exhausted with just how cute everything is on Nintendo platforms. Sometimes you need a palate cleanser and I think a new F-Zero would refreshing.

[alegoicoe]

I never got past that track in story mode that had all 90 degree turns. And that's like second track.

I barely beat samurai Goroh in his story mode level after like 200 tries or so.

Damn, at least i got past the third mission, F-Zero seemed to have have kicked your a@@ , it also kicked mine, i broke a gamecube controller while i was at it