Topic: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)

[Podings]

Where did you hear that this move is to "compete" with the other devices?

What I heard primarily was that a supposed new DSi model with have larger screens and larger buttons (making the system and the pixels bigger, yes) for ease of use for older people.

These people do NOT own a PSP or iPhone, and are probably not considering getting one. The DSi meanwhile features plenty of worthwhile distractions for the elderly, and a slightly larger machine altogether just might be what they needed.

I'm pretty convinced no-one has been expecting this to actually be a "new" DS.

[Pale]

At the risk of repeating myself, in all the rumors I read there were two possible reasons for the device discussed... one was for older people, and the other was to better compete with other devices that feature larger screens.  Again, I was focused on the assumption that the latter will prove true.

/sigh.

[jakeOSX]

i want to throw something into the fire (hat? whatever your metaphor)

i don't think nintendo is competing with the PSP, and certainly not the iPhone with the DS. i think it is the other way around. The DS has such a strangle on the handheld market that as long as they don't screw  up the DS2 (tegra!) things will go just fine for big N.

this is NOT to say that the iPhone and PSP aren't doing well, aren't competing, etc. but there are two things to remember:

first the iphone as a handheld gaming competition is nearly a joke. Bad battery life, no buttons, etc, etc. sure the games will look nice, but could you imagine platforming with accelerometers? it is one thing on the Wii where there is separation of screen and control, but when you have to keep your eyes on the controller as you 'waggle' ain't a pretty thing. civ, soduku and even driving games, sure. but FPS (not impossible) and platformers, not so much. (touching the screen to fire? now i can't see what's going on!) (disclaimer, i am an apple fan boy)

handheld games have one advantage over console games. no one seems to think it odd to have an iphone and a DS and a PSP. hell i have a DSi and a gameboy micro in my travel bag at all times. they compete against each other, but then they don't.

just MHO.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Again, I want to emphasize that really the entire assumption/concern behind this post is that Nintendo will be doing this to "compete" with iPhone and PSP and will be replacing the current DSi with it... ie Stop manufacturing the current DSi.

As I said before, if it does end up just being a niche product, I withdraw my statement that they don't get it.  I just think it's a valid concern that they think increasing the pixel size is all it takes to appear to be on an even keel (from a technological standpoint) with the PSP and the iPhone.

Once again, I repeat GBA SP with brighter screens replacing the old GBA SP. Nintendo does stuff like this, it isn't a big deal.

[Pale]

Well GP, that is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of.  I don't want them to replace the DSi with what I think will be an inferior product.

I know I don't have to buy one, but I would if mine broke.  And regardless, the blog was meant more looking at Nintendo's philosophies as a whole and how this would be an example of them missing the boat.

The only way I'll withdraw my complaint is if the current DSi continues to be manufactured.

Ya know, I would buy a new DSi that had 2 inch screens and was a heck of a lot smaller! =P

[GoldenPhoenix]

We'll see, my guess though is by the time this comes out the new handheld will be announced so it will be pretty much a mute point. I doubt it is to compete with iPhone, while there may be marketing speak floating around with that connotation I think it is really about the older audience. Though you don't want to market something as being for old, almost legally blind people.

We'll see how the screens look though when playing a game. I will say if history is any indication it WILL replace the current DSi whether any of us like it or not.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"I doubt it is to compete with iPhone, while there may be marketing speak floating around with that connotation I think it is really about the older audience."

Those iPhone remarks had to have originated somewhere (like it was made up), obviously not from a Nintendo press release.  Another case of bad journalism?

[BlackNMild2k1]

Where did you hear that this move is to "compete" with the other devices?

What I heard primarily was that a supposed new DSi model with have larger screens and larger buttons (making the system and the pixels bigger, yes) for ease of use for older people.

These people do NOT own a PSP or iPhone, and are probably not considering getting one. The DSi meanwhile features plenty of worthwhile distractions for the elderly, and a slightly larger machine altogether just might be what they needed.

I'm pretty convinced no-one has been expecting this to actually be a "new" DS.

"I doubt it is to compete with iPhone, while there may be marketing speak floating around with that connotation I think it is really about the older audience."

Those iPhone remarks had to have originated somewhere (like it was made up), obviously not from a Nintendo press release.  Another case of bad journalism?

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=29701.msg559542#msg559542

The only way I'll withdraw my complaint is if the current DSi continues to be manufactured.

What if the new DSi actually upscales the image instead of just stretching it to fit the screen? Would you withdraw your comment then?

I know that's unlikely to happen, but it is a "what if" situation.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

BNM:  upscaling and stretching are, effectively, the same thing; "upscaling" has a more specific computational implication

~~~~~

OK from BNM's news post we can track info coming from an article by Anoop Gantayat (*IGN* Japan correspondent a decade ago, I do remember his name; suspicious journalism) who is REPORTING on a Nihon Keizai Shimbun REPORT.
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2009/10/27/nintendo_ds_push/
and the key quote:
--"With the larger screen size, Nintendo aims to expand use for the system to movies and digital books, and also spur demand amongst older audiences who might have considered the current screen hard to see. It also hopes to fend off stronger competition from Sony and Apple."

Elsewhere is a Reuters article that references the Nikkei Business Daily paper,
http://www.reuters.com/article/CMPTRS/idUST31442220091027
with the key quotes:
--"The new version will have a screen larger than 4 inches, which would put it roughly on a par with the screen on Sony Corp's (6758.T) PlayStation portable game player, the NIKKEI said."
--"A bigger screen alone does not count for much," said KBC *SECURITIES* *ANALYST* Hiroshi KAMIDE, adding that Nintendo needs better graphics quality and a more powerful chip to run multimedia-type games and become more competitive.  "Nintendo is under pressure from iPhone and iTouch."
--"Nintendo's hand-held, which now has a 3.25-inch screen, is struggling against competition from Apple Inc's (AAPL.O) iPhone, whose screen is about the same size."  [REALLY?  DS IS FALTERING IN JAPAN?  WHERE THE **** DID THIS INFO COME FROM?]


I don't know the exact source of the Nihon and the Nikkei, but I have a hunch that the Nihon report based on the Nikkei report, as I don't know where Nihon's Sony/Apple comments come from (LOL NOW I'M THE REPORTER WHO'S MAKING STUFF UP NOW).  To further fart on this confusing cloud of stinky journalism, Sean Malstrom is saying Kamide is an idiot, an analyst who is commenting on a field he's not versed in.
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/the-collapse-of-american-journalism/


Really, Internet.  Am I to believe the standard for online journalism is GoNintendo's Report about a Report about a Report now?

[GoldenPhoenix]

WHen has DS been struggling against anything?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

WHen has DS been struggling against anything?

Ever since it launched, according to the media. i am serious

[BlackNMild2k1]

WHen has DS been struggling against anything?

Struggling against it's own success. Lets' just hope that the DSi doesn't turn to drugs and alcohol like so many other success stories do.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

So that settles it.  With the evidence gathered, the purpose of the new DS screen is to compete with DVD players and portable digi-music playing devices.

The screen-scaling issue will definitely make DSi's current GPS navigation capabilities worse.

[vudu]

At the risk of repeating myself, in all the rumors I read there were two possible reasons for the device discussed... one was for older people, and the other was to better compete with other devices that feature larger screens.  Again, I was focused on the assumption that the latter will prove true.

/sigh.

How long until Zap creates a thread in the Funhouse titled Why Pale Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)?

[yoshi1001]

One important feature of the current DS resolution is that each screen (individually) nearly matches the physical resolution of the NES/SNES games (the screens have slightly fewer vertical pixels since they adhere to a more strict 4:3 ratio than the original consoles). If they did increase the screen size, I would expect them to become slightly taller to fully match this size, or wider (much like GBC->GBA), maybe both.

For 3-D games, they could also render the graphics at a higher resolution (say 640:480), then shrink them down to achieve interobject antialiasing (I've theorized HD consoles may end up doing this if TV resolutions don't increase). This would make the graphics look better by reducing the harsh edges at the edge of polygons.

[King of Twitch]

How long until Zap creates a thread in the Funhouse titled Why Pale Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)?

There's so much rumor and speculation, and lack of opportunity for casual-bashing that I don't even know what to comment on.

[MegaByte]

I don't know the exact source of the Nihon and the Nikkei, but I have a hunch that the Nihon report based on the Nikkei report

Nihon Keizai Shimbun IS Nikkei.

If you want the original report, our own Matt Walker translated it for our story:

Nintendo to beef up portable game device in lieu of competition, Resistance to Apple in America

Nintendo is to beef up it's portable game device, the 'Nintendo DSi' both in country and overseas. Their latest device, the 'DSi' is be improved upon with larger screens and introduced into the domestic market within the year. The move is being done in order to stir up demand among older consumers as well as their younger, core audience. In 2009 Nintendo introduced their DSi with better restrictions against pirated software that had been fond in China and Korea. The device is to be expanded upon to compete with Sony and Apple who have been quickly catching up to Nintendo

One year after the DSi was first released to wild success it's sales have come to a slump. Monthly sales have leveled off at 1/3rd of what they were at their peak. Introducing a new device and new features will stimulate new sales.

The current DSi's screens are approximately 3.2 inches, nearly identical to that of Apple's popular 'iPhone'. The new variation of the DSi will feature screens that are closer to the size of Sony Computer Entertainment's portable game device, the 'Playstation Portable' at over 4 inches, and will be nearly twice the size of the screens of the current DSi.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Knee + Kay =

I said, Wow.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Now all Nintnedo needs to do is put in a phone app and they are in business.

[Pale]

Ok, so the LL has been announced, and it doesn't appear to be a "replacement" so that's good.

But just to drive my point home of why Nintendo needs to start realizing that resolution matters, I crunched some more numbers this morning.

So the critical number I am looking at is PPI, or pixels per inch.  I think the iPhone has a beautiful screen, so we will be using that as a baseline for what is possible in a device that small.  It has a PPI of 163.

The DSi, has a PPI of 98.  That's just 60% of what the iPhone does.

Now, this DSi LL has a PPI of 76. UGH! That's just 47%!

Want to see a rough example of what a 47% difference looks like?



But like I said, I will stop freaking out now that it appears it is not a replacement for the DSi.  I just hope Nintendo takes the hint with their next portable, and has a competitive PPI.

[that Baby guy]

That's just terrible, Pale!  That's a seriously "wrong" picture, in many senses, a silly photoshop trick in order to manipulate things in an attempt to make your point more valid:

If you were doing a decent comparison, you'd stretch out the picture so that image A would be much smaller than image B, but every pixel would still be represented.  Instead, you just decreased the number of pixels in image B, without any respect or concern to the fact that Image A and B should have the same number of pixels.  The only thing accurate about image B is the size of the pixels, but as I said, the method you used isn't a suitable comparison at all!

What you did before, resizing the screens, was a much more accurate representation, and in most cases, the resolution:screen size ratio is something that doesn't look bad from the distance most people feel comfortable playing the DS, anyways.

[Pale]

You aren't making any sense.  The comparison is totally valid.  It is assuming two screens of equal physical size but differing PPI with a source image of a set resolution, that resolution being the image on the left.

If the image is displayed on a screen of lower resolution, (the image on the right) that screen has to interpolate what each pixel would be, thus lowering the resolution of the image.

I think you are the confused one here.

[that Baby guy]

The DSi LL isn't a screen of lower resolution, though, Pale, and you know it.  The fair representation would be to show that the screen is of equal resolution, yet is a larger size.  Since the DSi LL is of the same resolution as the DSi, there is no pixel loss, unlike what is represented in your straw-man argument.  The fact is, the two screens are not of equal size.  Trying to give a representation that assumes the two screens are equal size misrepresents the volume of pixels.

What I'm saying is you're mock-up heavily implies that the DSi LL will cause pixel loss, as your picture represents.  This is simply untrue in every facet of the idea.

Of course you're comparing it to the iPhone, but an image that consists of 150x150 pixels is an image that consists of 150x150 pixels, regardless of the PPI.  The reasoning is still faulty to represent it any other way.

[Pale]

Ugh, please read it again.  I'm comparing DS LL to the iPhone... basically summing up my argument as to why I want the next Nintendo portable to use a technologically relevant screen.

[Pale]

To respond to your ninja edit... even though you misread originally, you can't just decide that's its irrelevant.  The overall resolution of the image doesn't matter.

It is a hypothetical situation in which two screens of the same size but drastically different PPI's display the same image.  It is an accurate representation of that.  It just so happens that the difference in PPI between those two hypothetical screens is an equivalent ratio to the difference in PPI between the DS LL and the iPhone.