Topic: Official Sales Thread

[Ceric]

It all will not matter once you become part of the Wii.

[31 Flavas]

JOIN US IAN!

[Ian Sane]

"And so what if it does? Does it mean Zelda isn't fun because of it? Come now, that's just being ridiculous."

It means there's a possibility that games like Zelda will not be made as often.  That's the concern.  As non-gaming gets bigger companies will focus on it more and will focus less on "gamer games".  Why spend money making gamer games when non-games cost less to make and will sell more copies?  That is the concern.  Hell we see it now on the Wii.  Nintendo has not released a gamer game on the Wii since launch.  Warioware and WiiPlay are clearly aimed at the non-gamer like WiiSports was.  The Gamecube at the same time in it's life had four first party gamer games (Luigi's Mansion, Wave Race, SSBM, Pikmin) while the Wii has two first party gamer games(Zelda, Excitetruck) and three non-games.  While the Wii seems to be selling better Nintendo's priorities are different.  They now have to make two different types of product and they have not released anything for the "original group" since launch.  For a gamer not interested in non-games Nintendo's first party output is essentially half of what it was before.

The situation is quite new.  A group where previously nearly 100% of the product was aimed at them (ie: everyone was a gamer; like any hobby if you lacked the skills to enjoy the interest or failed to understand it you didn't participate) now has a different group fighting for attention.  The new group is bigger and more easily pleased.  I see no logical reason from a business persceptive for a publisher to continue to release a comparable amount of product for group 1 anymore when group 2 requires less effort and higher financial gain.  It's like when reality TV and game shows suddenly took off and for a few years there was nothing on TV worth watching.

[SixthAngel]

I'm pretty sick of everybody complaining about this "nongamer" crap.  Warioware games were being made on the gba before nintendo coined the phrase but now that one is on the Wii it is a nongame.  I love smooth moves and because this version is easy to pick up it is suddenly not a "game."

Ian you shouldn't be worried about more "nongamers," you should be more worried about the lack of "real gamers."  It doesn't matter how many nongamers come into existence if the amount of traditional gamers doesn't drop the games you want will still be made.  When the industry grows the old parts don't suffer in order to satisfy a new demand, instead more games are made to satisfy the new parts.

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

It means there's a possibility that games like Zelda will not be made as often.

Zelda's never get released more then once or twice on a console anyway. So it's not like Wii Sports killed your chance at a third Zelda. It ludicrous to think a Final Fantasy, Zelda, Halo, or GTA is going to be displaced by ANY GAME. Hell going with that trend... Why not argue no games should be released, but the genre kings? Sorry, competition and variety is a good thing.

Quote
As non-gaming gets bigger companies will focus on it more and will focus less on "gamer games".  Why spend money making gamer games when non-games cost less to make and will sell more copies?

You can say this about any game though. As game X gets bigger and bigger, game Y will go out of focus. But more over, small inexpensive games that sell lots and lots of copies are what finance your big extravagant and very expensive Final Fantasy's, Halo3's, and GTA's.
 

[odifiend]

Just curious, what companies, other than Nintendo, have started putting out 'non-games'?

How is excite truck a game where you control a truck by rotating the wiimote like a steering wheel a gamer game but how wii sports is a non game?  I remember owning Track & Field for the NES.  It was a compilation of events from the olympics.  As far as I knew it was a gamer game.  I don't really see how wii sports is anything but an extension of that concept.
I can imagine wave race controlling similarly to excite truck.  I don't see where 'gamer games' end and 'non games' begin.  Please explain it to me.  Tetris is a classic game.  Where does that fall?  Even Brain Age has elements of a classic arcade game - it pits you against your own past performances.
Ian, the situation is not new at all.  You were just too young to remember the first time it happened.  Video games used to be only an arcade phenomenon.  I wish I could meet your parallel who was saying that home consoles would ruin video games.

[Deguello]

Ian is caught inside of his own Ian-centric definitions as if they are the only definitions. I see WarioWare as a "Gamer game" because the series was started before this nomenclature war even began.  I even seem to recall Ian saying it was "too hardcore" or something.  Now all of a sudden it's too "non-game."  Whatever.  

This merry-go-round isn't fun anymore, Ian.  

[Adrock]

Quote
odfiend wrote:
Just curious, what companies, other than Nintendo, have started putting out 'non-games'?

Nintendo is just credited for leading the current charge to capture the non-gamer audience and make those kinds of games part of their business model. A few companies have released "non-games" over the years even if they were probable never meant to be a priority for those companies. Sega released Seaman years ago and Konami's DDR series isn't necessarily a gamer's game though many gamers now enjoy it. Recently, Capcom has Phoenix Wright. Atlus publishes Trauma Center and Touch Detective.

[Deguello]

What in THE HELL makes Trauma Center a non-game?

[Adrock]

It's a medical simulation. What doesn't make it a non-game?

[Deguello]

Sorry, son.  You made the claim first.  You have to ante up the evidence.  "It's a medical simulation" isn't going to cut it.  What makes it a non-game?  Try to answer with more than one sentence.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

it Is no tHE tradishunull

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
Just curious, what companies, other than Nintendo, have started putting out 'non-games'?

Majesco, Hudson, Ubisoft, Bandai, EA, THQ, Telegames, Activision, Daiwon

[odifiend]

Keyword: started.  DDR and a lot of those other games were already being made.  Where is the wave of companies who started not putting out their traditional games in favor of non games?  I would say there aren't any.
Jason, if you want to give me titles to match with all those companies making 'nongames', that would be great...

[ShyGuy]

WHO HAS TRAINWRECKED THE PRECIOUS SALES THREAD??!?

[Adrock]

Quote
Deguello wrote:
Sorry, son. You made the claim first. You have to ante up the evidence. "It's a medical simulation" isn't going to cut it. What makes it a non-game? Try to answer with more than one sentence.

I don't really need more than one sentence. Everything about Trauma Center makes it a non-game. If you really want to get into it, first define what a "non-game" is because the term itself is elusive. I tend to think that it's a "game" that reaches beyond established genres and/or is created with people who don't normally play videogames in mind. That's a vague description but it's also subjective. Your definition of what a non-game is may differ. Trauma Center fits into my definition of what a non-game is. So I throw it back to you, what about Trauma Center doesn't make it a non-game?

Quote
odfiend wrote:
Where is the wave of companies who started not putting out their traditional games in favor of non games? I would say there aren't any.

I agree. Not even Nintendo has done that. Games like Zelda, Mario, Smash, Metroid etc still seem like a priority to them. Nintendo isn't going to stop putting out their big traditional games in favor of non-games. I think we're seeing companies release more non-games even though the focus remains on traditional games.

[wandering]

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
I don't really need more than one sentence. Everything about Trauma Center makes it a non-game. If you really want to get into it, first define what a "non-game" is because the term itself is elusive. I tend to think that it's a "game" that reaches beyond established genres and/or is created with people who don't normally play videogames in mind.

Trauma Center and Phoenix Wright are both non-traditional and do attract a different kind of player...but they aren't non-games any more than MASH or A Few Good Men are non-movies. One is a fast-paced action game requiring quick reflexes, the other is a traditional point-and-click adventure game requiring puzzle-solving skills. Note the use of the word "game" in both descriptions.

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
Keyword: started.  DDR and a lot of those other games were already being made.  Where is the wave of companies who started not putting out their traditional games in favor of non games?  I would say there aren't any.
Jason, if you want to give me titles to match with all those companies making 'nongames', that would be great...

Majesco - New York Times Crossword Puzzle DS
Hudson - Sudoku Gridmaster
Ubisoft - Catz and Dogz
Bandai - Tomagatchi
EA - Sims
THQ - Ping Pals
Telegames - Ultimate Brain Games
Activision - Whac-A-Mole
Daiwon - That Japanese Korean dictionary thingie for the DS

[Deguello]

Trauma Center was most definitely not created with casual gamers in mind.  It gets hard.  Like Really hard.

Seriously, this is so retarded.  So what, you listed like several new games on the DS and call them non-games?  Trauma Center isn't really a "simulation" and if you played it or saw a video of it or maybe even did a little research into it you would know it isn't a "non-game" by any stretch.  You said everything about it screams "non-game."  WHAT ABOUT IT?  why do I have to define non-game if you are the one making the damn claim?  YOU define it, and say why you think Trauma Center is a non-game.

And Adrock, if the definition of non-game changes from person to person like you postulate, then all I have to do to validate it's "game-ness" is say I think it is one and be done with it.  It sorta makes the whole idea of classification pointless.

[Smash_Brother]

Trauma Center is the very definition of a gamer game: it's based entirely on skill, precision, reflex and failure is a ready possibility at all times.

A non-game like Nintendogs is a "non-game" because of the generally low expectation in terms of actions on behalf of the player that require skill, reflex and timing.

Trauma Center was ridiculously based on skill and reflex, as was Wario Ware. I wouldn't even call certain Wii Sports games non-gamer games, such as Boxing and Baseball, as the amount of skill and speed required to compete at later levels is pretty intense. They have casual appeal, yes, but they're still very much GAMES.

EDIT: Beat me by 2 minutes, Deguello...

[wandering]

I think Trauma Center might be called a lapsed-gamer game: a game that appeals to someone who liked Super Mario Bros, but finds most modern games too violent, or traversing 3d landscapes too hard.

[KDR_11k]

I seem to recall Ian having the same worries about the DS. Look where it's now. Oh, right, he probably didn't buy one because it's "infested with non-games" like Castlevania, Megaman, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, ...

[Adrock]

Quote
Deguello wrote:
Seriously, this is so retarded.

If you want to talk about what's really retarded, think about how riled up you're getting about this. Jeez.... Such hostility. Chill pills for everyone... And before you assume that I know nothing about Trauma Center, please keep in mind that I work in a video store and I've played almost everything on Wii. By "almost" I mean, I'm not wasting my free rentals on Barnyard or Avatar.

Yes, it gets hard, but skill and difficulty don't define what a game is. Who says a non-game can't be hard? A pre-school difficulty level isn't necessary to draw the non-gamer in.  A non-gamer doesn't know Trauma Center will drive them up a wall, but they might pick it up and give it a chance because it's not like anything they've seen before. They might like it and they might want to put the game down. At the same time, it might make anyone put the game down. The important thing is getting them to try it. These non-traditional games are meant to attract different audiences (though they're not supposed to be exclusively appealing to non-gamers). The design of Trauma Center tends to elicit a second glance from non-gamers because of it's different.

Quote
why do I have to define non-game if you are the one making the damn claim? YOU define it, and say why you think Trauma Center is a non-game.

I did define it and I think you should too because the very definition of what a non-game is at the heart of this discussion. If you think my definition is wrong, then say why you think it's wrong and part of that is defining what a non-game is yourself.

[Bloodworth]

Non-games are not defined by who will like them.
Electroplankton is a non-game.  
Japanese cookbooks are non-games.  
The Kanji dictionary and language programs are non-games.
Nintendogs is just as much a game as Animal Crossing.
Trauma Center is an intense hardcore game in every way and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.

Now that's settled.  Let's get this thread back to the point.  Where the heck are this week's hardware numbers?

[BlackNMild2k1]

Sorry, I was off watching 300...

Media Create Feb. 26th - March 4th (in its entirety since the thread has been derailed)

Software:
01. (PS3, Bandai-Namco) Gundam Musou - 170,725 / NEW
02. (DS, Banpresto) Super Robot Wars W - 139,311 / NEW
03. (PSP, Capcom) Monster Hunter Portable 2nd - 137,851 / 843,132
04. (Wii, Nintendo) Wii Sports - 39,639 / 1,130,376
05. (DS, Level 5) Prof. Layton and the Mysterious Village - 33,957 / 220,673
06. (Wii, Nintendo) Wii Play - 31,702 / 976,288
07. (DS, Bandai-Namco) Iron Left Brain: Mistake Museum 2 - 28,495 / NEW
08. (DS, Square-Enix) Dragon Quest Monsters Joker - 27,236 / 1,201,812
09. (DS, Nintendo) New Super Mario Bros. - 24,545 / 4,193,532
10. (DS, Nintendo) More Brain Age - 22,854 / 4,039,850

11. (DS, Nintendo) Animal Crossing Wild World
12. (DS, Nintendo) Picross DS
13. (Wii, Nintendo) Fire Emblem: Goddess of the Dawn
14. (DS, Nintendo) Mario Kart DS
15. (DS, Marvelous Interactive) Harvest Moon: The Island I Grew Up On
16. (DS, Nintendo) Hotel Dusk: Room 215
17. (DS, Nintendo) Common Knowledge Training
18. (DS, Nintendo) Wario: Master of Disguise
19. (DS, Nintendo) Brain Age
20. (DS, Pokemon) Pokémon Diamond
21. (DS, EA) SimCity DS
22. (Wii, Takara-Tomy) Naruto: Shippuuden Gekitou Ninja Taisen! EX
23. (Wii, Nintendo) Wario Ware Smooth Moves
24. (PS2, Alchemist) Higurashi no Naku Koro ni
25. (DS, Nintendo) English Training
26. (DS, Konami) Death Note
27. (DS, Pokemon) Pokémon Pearl
28. (DS, IE Institute) Kanji Brain Test 2M
29. (DS, Bandai-Namco) Heisei Board of Education DS
30. (DS, Sega) Bleach DS 2nd: Kokui Hirameku Requiem

31. (DS, Spike) IQ Supply
32. (DS, Rocket Co.) Kanji Test
33. (DS, Nintendo) 1000 Recipes
34. (DS, Sega) Love+Berry
35. (DS, Nintendo) Kirby Squeek Squad
36. (PS2, Capcom) Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
37. (PSP, Bandai-Namco) Tales of Destiny 2
38. (DS, Nintendo) Tetris DS
39. (PS2, Banpresto) Lupin the 3rd: Death for Lupin from Love of Money
40. (Wii, Nintendo) The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
41. (PS2, Nippon Ichi Software) Soul Cradle: Sekai wo Kurau Mono
42. (DS, Bandai-Namco) Keroro Gunsou Enshuu da yo! Zen-in Shuugou Part 2
43. (DS, Nintendo) Jump Ultimate Stars
44. (PS2, Sega) Yakuza
45. (DS, Nintendo) Cooking Navi
46. (PSP, Capcom) Monster Hunter Portable
47. (DS, Sega) Sangokushi Taisen DS
48. (DS, Capcom) Mega Man Star Force: Pegasus
49. (DS, Sega) Puyo-Puyo!
50. (DS, Shogakukan) DS Kageyama Method Electronic Math Drills

DS - 35
Wii - 6
PS2 - 5
PSP - 3
PS3 - 1

Hardware - This Week | Last Week | YTD | LTD
1. DS - 111,926 | 136,260 | 1,489,334 | 15,495,013
2. PSP - 66,156 | 100,210 | 503,984 | 5,036,113
3. Wii - 57,972 | 78,506 | 803,574 | 1,723,217
4. PS3 - 44,000 | 19,315 | 262,725 | 720,283
5. PS2 - 15,364 | 15,054 | 196,047 | 20,350,906
6. 360 - 3,379 | 4,183 | 65,389 | 330,091
7. GBA - 1,568 | 2,001 | 24,114 | 15,322,193
8. GC - 303 | 323 | 4,432 | 4,173,900