Author Topic: NBA Thread: Brought To You By The Tampa Bay Raptors Of Toronto  (Read 674779 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline BeautifulShy

  • Shifting my body across the galaxy
  • Score: 79
    • View Profile
    • My streaming page.
It is looking like the Suns are shopping around T.J. Warren, Josh Jackson and the number 6 pick for a veteran point guard.  Also if the Suns manage to ship out Jackson and Warrens contracts that will free up enough cap space for D'Angello Russell. In regards to a vet point guard I could see Mike Conley or Daren Collison.
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
Alexis, she/her/Miss

Quote by Khushrenada in Safe Words 15.
Quote
I'm happy with thinking pokepal148 is just eating a stick of butter. It seems about right for him. I don't need no stinking facts.

Offline Caliban

  • In Space As Always
  • Score: 32
    • View Profile
The population of Metro Toronto is about 3 million and I swear, every single one of them is crammed into the parade route. I did enough crowd dodging last week.

I wasn't anywhere within the vicinity of the parade or Nathan Philips Square, but it seems like you would have to do more than crowd dodging. I read there were some gunshots, and a few stampedes because of that.



Offline BeautifulShy

  • Shifting my body across the galaxy
  • Score: 79
    • View Profile
    • My streaming page.
Here is about 20 minutes of highlights and speeches from the parade.   

Linky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fplFVh_iO0
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
Alexis, she/her/Miss

Quote by Khushrenada in Safe Words 15.
Quote
I'm happy with thinking pokepal148 is just eating a stick of butter. It seems about right for him. I don't need no stinking facts.

Offline ejamer

  • Does he even know Khushrenada?!?
  • Score: 24
    • View Profile
Dang... listening to all the talking heads in the US try desperately to dismiss and demean the Raptors winning the championship this year is a drag.

Warriors underachieved all year long, had a ton of injuries all year long, and really didn't approach their peak during the playoffs (although when KD went down and they won... what, 6 games straight before coming up against the Raptors there was a very different narrative being built).

Raptors were a team that just continued to grind. They also dealt with a lot of injuries to key players during the year (and that's not counting time missed for "load management") yet they continually found a way to win in nearly every scenario - with or without Leonard in the regular season. They didn't quite peak in the playoffs, but came pretty close once they started winning vs the Bucks.

Injuries are a drag, but there is no asterisk. Raptors took on everyone in front of them, and never stopped fighting until the were the last team standing. They played tough, physical defense and were an absolute chameleon on both ends of the floor, throwing different looks at teams to match whatever situation they were thrust into. Nobody trusted them - to be fair, they've flamed out in the playoffs before I think you need to prove yourself before being trusted to win - and yet they just kept level heads from game to game, looking for that next advantage to leverage.

It's astounding to me that after making it happen, after grinding through every challenge and opponent, there is so little appreciation for a team that played together, trusted each other on the court, and reached the highest level of success. If I were on the Raptors and hearing the nonsense being spouted by American-focused media, I'd be taking it personally.

Did this happen when the Pistons won as underdogs in '04? Kawhi is a better individual talent than anyone they had... but it's the closest comparison I can think of in the past 20 years.  Maybe the Houston wins in the mid-90s when Olajuwon was dominating might be similar, doubly so if you consider Durant a Jordan equivalent (which I don't).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 08:39:52 AM by ejamer »
NNID: ejamer

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
Despite all the posturing from Raptors players about how they weren’t afraid of the Warriors, they knew they probably don’t win if Klay Thompson and especially Kevin Durant were healthy. Doesn’t matter though. The Raptors won, and that’s what will be recorded in history books. Given all the Warriors injuries, the Raptors absolutely should have won. The narrative would have been devastating had the Raptors lost. They’d be the team that choked again even without LeBron in the East while Steph Curry willed a broken down team to victory. Don’t want that in the history books. Ultimately, the Raptors won a championship they had no business losing given the circumstances. The narrative isn’t glamorous, but it doesn’t have to be.

The Rockets won when Michael Jordan was in baseball exile because his gambling problem would have been bad for the league. I remember that. Still, history will always remember them as champions and especially the 1995 team that was the sixth seed. The 2004 Pistons took down prime Shaq and Kobe without a superstar of their own. I don’t think that’s comparable to the 2019 Raptors. Off the top of my head, the 2011 Mavericks are the only team that is comparable. Dirk Nowitzki and co faced three superstars, down 0-2, and still won.

Offline ejamer

  • Does he even know Khushrenada?!?
  • Score: 24
    • View Profile
... The 2004 Pistons took down prime Shaq and Kobe without a superstar of their own. I don’t think that’s comparable to the 2019 Raptors. ...

I always feel like people underrate the individual talents of that Pistons team. True, there is no single stand-out superstar on the squad. But what a perfect collection of complimentary skills.  And I see a lot of comparisons between the teams with Billups/Lowry, Prince/Siakam, R.Wallace/Gasol... it just happens that Leonard is a combination of B.Wallace's strength and defense with Hamilton's shooting efficiency. (Ok, maybe I'm stretching things a bit there...)

2011 Mavs are also a fine comparison.


It's a shame we didn't see both teams fully healthy, as that just would have been better ball.
Unlikely to happen, but I would love to see both teams roll out the same rosters (healthy this time) for a rematch next year. If Durant was playing, you have to figure that Warriors win. If not, I think it would be a heck of a series.
NNID: ejamer

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
I don’t think it’s possible to underrate the talent of the 2004 Pistons. They beat a super team. Full stop.

No way the Raptors beat the Warriors when healthy. Steph Curry got triple teamed. That isn’t happening with Kevin Durant on the floor.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
Sources: Conley sent to Jazz for 3 players, picks

Quote
The Memphis Grizzlies have traded guard Mike Conley to the Utah Jazz for Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver and Jae Crowder, the 23rd pick in Thursday's draft and a future first-round pick, league sources told ESPN.

The Jazz will send a protected 2020 first-round pick to the Grizzlies, league sources told ESPN. That pick will convey as a late lottery pick in 2020 or 2021, or become a lightly protected pick from 2022 to '24. The deal will be complete on July 6.
Broodwars, thoughts?

Offline ejamer

  • Does he even know Khushrenada?!?
  • Score: 24
    • View Profile
Must be more moves coming for the Jazz, right?
NNID: ejamer

Offline broodwars

  • Hunting for a Pineapple Salad
  • Score: -1011
    • View Profile
Sources: Conley sent to Jazz for 3 players, picks

Quote
The Memphis Grizzlies have traded guard Mike Conley to the Utah Jazz for Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver and Jae Crowder, the 23rd pick in Thursday's draft and a future first-round pick, league sources told ESPN.

The Jazz will send a protected 2020 first-round pick to the Grizzlies, league sources told ESPN. That pick will convey as a late lottery pick in 2020 or 2021, or become a lightly protected pick from 2022 to '24. The deal will be complete on July 6.
Broodwars, thoughts?

It's a great trade. We were after Conley last year, but Memphis pulled the trade away. Korver's probably retiring, Grayson Allen was spotty in his rookie season. The only reason we'd trade Crowder is if we were going after a big free agent at his position, so yeah...the Jazz aren't done yet. We needed this
There was a Signature here. It's gone now.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
I didn’t know enough about the Jazz to comment on whether it was a good trade. Nice that they got their guy. I like Donovan Mitchell so I want the Jazz to be more competitive.

Offline broodwars

  • Hunting for a Pineapple Salad
  • Score: -1011
    • View Profile
I didn’t know enough about the Jazz to comment on whether it was a good trade. Nice that they got their guy. I like Donovan Mitchell so I want the Jazz to be more competitive.

Well, let me put it this way: in exchange for one of the better Point Guards in the league, the Jazz gave up...

- Kyle Korver, who was a total no-show in the playoffs and is probably going to retire before or immediately after next season.
- Grayson Allen, a rookie Point Guard so spotty the Jazz didn't even recall him from the G League when all their OTHER Point Guards were injured last season.
- Jae Crowder, an above-average SF.
- 2 late 1st round picks that probably never would have amounted to anything anyway.

Losing Crowder hurts since he WAS the one guy besides Mitchell who showed up in the playoffs, but otherwise the Jazz kind of got away with highway robbery, especially since we still have the cap space to sign a big name 3rd option.

I'm just amazed that Dante Exum lifeless body wasn't part of this trade. The management must have serious faith in him, because he has the health of Greg Oden.
There was a Signature here. It's gone now.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
- 2 late 1st round picks that probably never would have amounted to anything anyway.
Maybe, maybe not. As a Jazz fan, you especially shouldn’t be dunking on late first round picks. Rudy Gobert was the 27th pick.

The Jazz have done exceptionally well turning late first round picks into gold. They used the 24th pick and Trey Lyles to trade up for Donovan Mitchell. Mike Conley is probably worth the picks they’re giving up. Have to give something to get something. The Jazz know that better than most teams.
Quote
Losing Crowder hurts since he WAS the one guy besides Mitchell who showed up in the playoffs, but otherwise the Jazz kind of got away with highway robbery, especially since we still have the cap space to sign a big name 3rd option.
I think both teams get what they want. The Grizzlies are doing exactly what they should be doing. They’re tanking rebuilding as well as they can despite the new lottery odds. Stocking up on draft picks because their 2020 pick is top six protected then unprotected in 2021 if it doesn’t convey in 2020 is a good move. The Grizzlies are also clearing cap space so they can absorb bad contracts in exchange for more assets should the opportunity present itself.
Quote
I'm just amazed that Dante Exum lifeless body wasn't part of this trade. The management must have serious faith in him, because he has the health of Greg Oden.
Perhaps even the Grizzlies were like:

Offline broodwars

  • Hunting for a Pineapple Salad
  • Score: -1011
    • View Profile
- 2 late 1st round picks that probably never would have amounted to anything anyway.
Maybe, maybe not. As a Jazz fan, you especially shouldn’t be dunking on late first round picks. Rudy Gobert was the 27th pick.

The Jazz have done exceptionally well turning late first round picks into gold. They used the 24th pick and Trey Lyles to trade up for Donovan Mitchell. Mike Conley is probably worth the picks they’re giving up. Have to give something to get something. The Jazz know that better than most teams.

Yeah, I know. The Jazz have the best Front Office in the business when it comes to creating something from nothing, but oddly enough we tend to get more out of the 2nd round than we do the 1st. What usually happens with our 1st round picks is that unless they're just THAT amazing from the get-go, they tend to be shoveled off to the D/G League, and then they're never seen again until it's time for the trade deadline.

The Jazz, for better or worse, just don't have a history of actually using the players they draft in the 1st round, most infamously when Deron Williams (**** him) spent his entire rookie year on the bench because Jerry Sloan wanted him to study how the professionals played. That's why I indicated that the picks weren't very important. Unless the Jazz get a Top-10 pick, they tend to just not use them at all.
There was a Signature here. It's gone now.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
There’s talk of the Lakers possibly bringing back D’Angelo Russell. Don’t know if he goes for it, but I’d love to have him back. The Lakers can throw Magic Johnson under the bus and blame him for trading Russell to the Nets and/or pitch it as not trading him means no LeBron James which ultimately means no Anthony Davis.

Unless the Lakers can finagle Kawhi Leonard, full out the roster with non-max guys. **** it. Bring back a bunch of former Lakers. They may still have $32.5 million on July 6. Split cap space between Julius Randle and D’Angelo Russell. Sign Brook Lopez for the mid level exception. Bring in Trevor Ariza (former Laker AND Rob Pelinka client) and Pau Gasol on vet minimum deals. I want Gasol to retire a Laker and a champion like he rightly deserves.

As for the rest of the roster, bring back Alex Caruso, Reggie Bullock (not sure he takes the vet minimum), and Javale McGee. George Hill will probably sign for the vet minimum. That brings the total roster to 11. Per the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the minimum number players on a team is 13 (12 active, one inactive). I’m sure the Lakers will sign Carmelo Anthony because I have to be mad at something. Can they talk one of the Morris twins or JJ Reddick into taking the vet minimum for a chance to win a title this year? Sign a couple two-way players from the G-league and leave the two roster spots open for buyouts at the trade deadline.

Offline BeautifulShy

  • Shifting my body across the galaxy
  • Score: 79
    • View Profile
    • My streaming page.
From what I have been reading about the AD trade the Pels are not likely to help out the Lakers with a delay of the trade or with moving pieces around so they may only have 23 million to 27 million depending on if Davis forgos the trade bonus.  The Lakers are also trying to shed the contracts of Wagner, Bongo and Jones in the trade to a third team to match ADs incoming contract.  So they may not even have enough for a max contract. I think D'Lo would want maybe 15 or 20 million a year to be the starting PG spot so that would take a good chunk of the cap space. Randle is coming off of the best season of his career so he may want to get paid.   

As far as roster construction it really depends on if AD is willing to play at the 5 or not. If he is then we just need a backup 5 and the backcourt because Kuzma is going to take the 4 and LeBron can go back to the 3. If he isn't and wants to play at his natural position of the 4 then I could see our 5s being Brook Lopez and McGee and or Dwayne Dedmond.      As for the back court Beverly and Collison are options as the point guard and I could see JJ Reddick being a solid 2 with Seth Curry as another option.   

I kinda think the Lakers should just use the cap space they have currently on filling out the roster and keeping Wagner, Bonga and Jones as 2nd and 3rd string options.
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
Alexis, she/her/Miss

Quote by Khushrenada in Safe Words 15.
Quote
I'm happy with thinking pokepal148 is just eating a stick of butter. It seems about right for him. I don't need no stinking facts.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
From what I have been reading about the AD trade the Pels are not likely to help out the Lakers with a delay of the trade or with moving pieces around so they may only have 23 million to 27 million depending on if Davis forgos the trade bonus.  The Lakers are also trying to shed the contracts of Wagner, Bongo and Jones in the trade to a third team to match ADs incoming contract.  So they may not even have enough for a max contract.
My understanding is the Lakers can still open up cap space for a max contract, and they're trying to "just in case" Kawhi Leonard, Kyrie Irving etc. are interested. I don't think that's a good enough reason to "scramble" (as Woj put it) to clear Moe Wagner, Isaac Bonga, and Jemerrio Jones from the books. If free agent X agrees to sign, figure it out then. Jones is on a non-guarunteed contract so he can be waived. The Lakers would only need his salary for matching purposes.

If an extra $4 million helped the Lakers fill out the roster or convince a marque free agent to sign, Davis likely waives the trade bonus. Bleacher Report's Eric Pincus mentioned on a podcast that the trade bonus is mostly to dissuade teams from trading for a player if he doesn't want to go there. Except we all know Davis wanted to go to the Lakers, they gut the roster and surrendered future draft picks to get him, and the expectation is that he'll make it more difficult for the team to sign players?
Quote
I kinda think the Lakers should just use the cap space they have currently on filling out the roster and keeping Wagner, Bonga and Jones as 2nd and 3rd string options.
Unfortunately, they're just on the wrong timeline. The Lakers are in win-now mode even though they'll likely re-sign Anthony Davis. They want to make the most of pairing James and Davis. The roster spots are for players who can contribute immediately. Bonga, for example, was always considered a project. That was before the Lakers traded everyone away for a top five player.

Offline nickmitch

  • You can edit these yourself now?!
  • Score: 82
    • View Profile
    • FACEBOOK!
Yeah, I don't see why people assume Davis wouldn't be open to waiving the trade bonus.  He wants to win now just as much as LeBron.  Taking a $4M discount shouldn't be an issue, unless he really doesn't trust Lakers management, which honestly he shouldn't.
TVman is dead. I killed him and took his posts.

Offline BeautifulShy

  • Shifting my body across the galaxy
  • Score: 79
    • View Profile
    • My streaming page.
Just throwing this out there. Is there any reason to have max cap space but not spend it on a max player? Like maybe getting more players out of the max cap space before using the exceptions and vet min contracts?
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
Alexis, she/her/Miss

Quote by Khushrenada in Safe Words 15.
Quote
I'm happy with thinking pokepal148 is just eating a stick of butter. It seems about right for him. I don't need no stinking facts.

Offline BeautifulShy

  • Shifting my body across the galaxy
  • Score: 79
    • View Profile
    • My streaming page.
So one more trade before the draft tomorrow.  Looks like the Pistons is sending John Leuer to the Bucks and the Bucks are sending Detroit the 30th pick and Tony Snell.   Snell should help the Pistons with shooting and the Bucks get 4 million to work with that they didn't have with Snell on the payroll.  So the Pisons now have the 15th and 30th picks for tomorrows draft.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1141539554274500609
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
Alexis, she/her/Miss

Quote by Khushrenada in Safe Words 15.
Quote
I'm happy with thinking pokepal148 is just eating a stick of butter. It seems about right for him. I don't need no stinking facts.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
Just throwing this out there. Is there any reason to have max cap space but not spend it on a max player? Like maybe getting more players out of the max cap space before using the exceptions and vet min contracts?
Already acknowledged and discussed.

It’s always better to have cap flexibility, and I can see why any team would do their due diligence to get as much as possible. It’s just weird that the Lakers are apparently hell bent on freeing up cap space specifically for a max salary so they either have the inside track on a max-level player or they’re panicking for no reason. I’m leaning toward the latter because *broadly gestures to everything Lakers-related over the past six years*

Still, I don’t think the Lakers absolutely need cap space for a max contract because

1. They’re probably not getting a seven to nine year vet max level player like Kawhi Leonard or Kyrie Irving.

2. Even if a seven to nine year vet agreed to sign, I don’t think roughly $3.5 million this year is really a dealbreaker. The reason they’d sign isn’t strictly monetary. Get close enough and it’s probably fine. There are ways to work around the lack of a full max contract so player X eventually gets their money.

3. If the Lakers need to clear cap space, they can clear cap space. It isn’t as if Wagner or Bonga are valueless. It may cost a second round pick or cash considerations, but they have options.

Anyway, cap space specifically for a max salary isn’t that important; the flexibility certainly is though. In any case, the Lakers should have a decent amount of money to fill out the roster in one of the deepest free agent classes in years.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 01:56:43 AM by Adrock »

Offline BeautifulShy

  • Shifting my body across the galaxy
  • Score: 79
    • View Profile
    • My streaming page.
I was about to head to bed but this popped up on SS&R.
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/6/20/18693250/2019-nba-draft-rumors-timberwolves-hawks-celtics-bulls-pursuing-4-pick-anthony-davis-trade-lakers

Timberwolves is trying to move up in the draft and get the 4th pick and join into a three team deal with the Lakers and Pels.

Question is what would the trade even be like for them to get involved and snag the 4 pick?

Edit: Now there is the Hawks, Cavs Celtics, and Bulls going after the number 4 pick. This is wild.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 02:31:42 PM by BeautifulShy »
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
Alexis, she/her/Miss

Quote by Khushrenada in Safe Words 15.
Quote
I'm happy with thinking pokepal148 is just eating a stick of butter. It seems about right for him. I don't need no stinking facts.

Offline Soren

  • Hanging out in the Discord
  • *
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
The reason we don't yet know whether the AD trade will be completed July 6th or 30th is because Rob Pelinka is an idiot who is learning about the salary cap on the fly. The Lakers are getting played hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg1QvMImZPE
My YouTube Channel: SenerioTV

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
While the Lakers being incompetent is hardly surprising, Rob Pelinka not understanding the cap/CBA is.

Does anyone remember Carlos Boozer’s departure from the Cavaliers in 2004? He was due to earn $700,000 on an option year, well below his production at the time averaging a double-double in points/rebounds. There was apparently a gentleman’s agreement between the Cavaliers’ front office and Boozer/his agent. The Cavaliers chose not to pick up the option, allowing Boozer to become a restricted free agent. Instead of signing the Cavaliers’ six year, $41 million offer, he signed the Jazz’s six year, $68 million offer which the Cavaliers could not match. Boozer’s agent was Rob Pelinka. The agency was apparently so horrified by this they dropped Boozer as a client (which almost never happens) and Pelinka resigned. It’s believed he was forced out because he orchestrated the entire thing.

1. This is one of the reasons everyone hates Rob Pelinka.

2. Considering how good he was at getting his clients paid by doing shitbag stuff like the story above, I’m having a hard time believing Pelinka, of all people, didn’t know how the cap works.

3. Last year, the Lakers waited until September 1 to waive and stretch Luol Deng, notably after he gave money back. This allowed Deng’s contract to be stretched over three years instead of five and for under $5 million per year, allowing the Lakers to open up cap space for a 10-year vet max contract ($37.5 million). Again, I’m having a hard time believing Pelinka didn’t know how the cap works.

4. It’s more likely that Pelinka just wanted the Anthony Davis deal finished by any means necessary (i.e. he doesn’t get that done, fired immediately) and he’d figure out the rest later. Again, the Lakers still have a path to max salary cap space that doesn’t involve asking the Pelicans to wait until August 1. It’s shortsighted, sure. Not quite as incompetent as being a general manager who doesn’t understand the cap.

Offline BeautifulShy

  • Shifting my body across the galaxy
  • Score: 79
    • View Profile
    • My streaming page.
Looks like the Suns and Pacers have made a trade. Suns are sending TJ Warren and the 32nd pick to Indiana. Pacers will send cash to the Suns.  After the trade is complete on the 6th the Pacers will have 31 million(not including Bogdanovic hold) and the Suns will have 21 million(29.5 without the Oubre Jr).  So the Suns could go after D'Angello Russell.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1141820037466140673
Maxi is dead. I killed him and took his posts and changed genders.
Alexis, she/her/Miss

Quote by Khushrenada in Safe Words 15.
Quote
I'm happy with thinking pokepal148 is just eating a stick of butter. It seems about right for him. I don't need no stinking facts.