Topic: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I'm talking about it selling out after a week or two, then not getting any new shipments for months, in California.

[Galford]

I said it before and I'll say it again.

Holidays 2007 will be the real test for Nintendo.
If Nintendo can find a solution to Halo 3 and MGS 4 the Wii will do well.
If not expect by 2008 the Wii to suffer the same fate as the GC.

Note: Edited for grammar.

[Nick DiMola]

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Originally posted by: couchmonkey

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4. Americanize, Americanize, Americanize

The bottom has dropped out of the Japanese video game market. It
shrank by one-third in 2001 alone.

Ooopsie.  This turned out to be Kent's most incorrect suggestion, and it also demonstrates just how much Nintendo DS surprised everyone and turned the industry around.  Non-gaming is the new gaming in Japan, and it's spreading to other territories.  Reading this quote and looking at the initial sales figures, it's clear that Wii is going to own Japan.

...

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...Next, it’s time for Nintendo executives to listen to what their
customers tell them. People like pretty graphics. People want the same
games with better graphics. Nintendo executives say they want
Revolution to be as revolutionary as DS. Fine, but make sure the
graphics are hugely improved...

LOL.  I know there are still graphics advocates out there, but DS sales have proven once again that they're totally irrelevant to a handheld, and so far Wii sales prove that they're not relevant to home consoles either.

These are my two biggest complaints with game journalists in general. The americanization of videogames is probably one of the worst things that can happen to gaming. Bizarre japanese games that make their way into America are probably the #1 thing keeping me interested in gaming. Xbox and the PS2 Americanized the hell out of gaming and look at the offerings on those systems. Shooters, sports and cookie-cutter racing games.

I hope the raging hard-on game journalists have for graphics is lost this generation. Sure graphics are important but art direction is far more vital (See Zelda: TP). If the Wii sees the same success as the DS I think Nintendo may keep the upper hand this generation and slow down the race to the next generation a bit. This may also lead to some more creative games because designers aren't as sharply focused on making the graphics better.

[couchmonkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
I said it before and I'll say it again.

Holidays 2007 will be the real test for Nintendo.
If Nintendo can find a solution to Halo 3 and MGG 4 the Wii will do well.
If not expect by 2008 the Wii to suffer the same fate as the GC.

I agree that holidays 2007 will show us a lot more about who's winning, but I think Nintendo should not be concerned with MGS 4 or Halo 3.  The whole point of Wii is to stop competing with those guys and start doing what's right for the Wii audience.  Granted, a great FPS would be perfect for the Wii, but the point is that it's good for Wii and Wii players, not for beating Sony and Microsoft.

If DS was trying to pull off better 3D games than PSP and nothing else, it would be losing right now.  Instead it sought ways to satisfy its audience and now it's the most successful system Japan has ever seen and it's starting to explode everywhere else, too.  The only huge DS application that really "needs" 3D is Nintendogs.  Pokemon, New SMB, Brain Training, and Animal Crossing all have 2D gameplay.

To say DS and Wii are exactly the same is a bit wrong, but the similarities are striking and I think the same strategy will work for both.

[Hostile Creation]

Steven Kent is wrong, big surprise.  Anyone arrogant enough to make broad assumptions like that is bound to be wrong.  C'mon, one individual assuming that he knows more than an entire company of people?  He was not right, he never was.  The key to success is not appealing to an existing, shallow market dominated by your competitors.  It's building the foundations for your own market, which can be built upon far more effectively than by following the philosophy "americanize americanize americanize".
Honestly, he's a prick.

[Ian Sane]

I think it's way too early to proclaim Kent was wrong and Nintendo was right (though I think some of Kent's ideas are stupid, like Americanizing things).  The Wii is selling well but I can't just go to a store and buy one.  Until we're at that point we really don't have a fair idea of how well the console is doing.  It's sold out everywhere but there are stortages.  Still that's better than the PS3 where there are shortages but I actually could have bought a PS3 a couple of times.

Nintendo surprised everyone because they did something so odd that no one could see it coming.  Still I'm iffy about the plan.  Not on how well it will do for Nintendo but how well it will do for me.  Yeah the DS is huge.  But it's still my least favourite Nintendo system thus far except for the Virtual Boy.  Nintendo is being successful by churning out cookie-cutter sequels for the fans and non-games to attract the general public.  Well at least those cookie-cutter sequels are pretty damn good, even if they're derivative.  Still to me Nintendo has sold out and compromised their principles which was a key thing I didn't want them to do in order to get their market share back on track.  It seems in the past whenever anyone stated their idea for how Nintendo could come back often cries of "you want Nintendo to be Sony" came out.  Usually this wasn't warranted as the idea seemed to be that providing variety and doing things competently (all things Nintendo did do on the NES and SNES) was somehow not Nintendo-like.  Well in the end Nintendo didn't literally become Sony but they did turn their focus to casual gamers.

I still maintain that Nintendo's problems were almost entirely due to them having their heads up their asses for the last ten years and screwing up that which was seemingly impossible to screw up.  Thus they could have made a decent comeback by not doing so much stupid stuff.  I also maintain that any half-decent console could kick the sh!t out of the PS3.  If Sony made the same mistakes with the PS2 that they're doing with the PS3 the Gamecube as is would have beat it.  Sony is finished and, much like Nintendo's fall and Atari's before that ,most of it is their own doing.

[UltimatePartyBear]

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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Steven Kent is wrong, big surprise.  Anyone arrogant enough to make broad assumptions like that is bound to be wrong.

That's a pretty broad assumption.

[Rhoq]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Yeah the DS is huge.  But it's still my least favourite Nintendo system thus far except for the Virtual Boy.  Nintendo is being successful by churning out cookie-cutter sequels for the fans and non-games to attract the general public.  Well at least those cookie-cutter sequels are pretty damn good, even if they're derivative.  Still to me Nintendo has sold out and compromised their principles which was a key thing I didn't want them to do in order to get their market share back on track.

Funny, the DS is among my top favorite consoles of all time. I agree with you to a certain extent on the sequels. Nintendo definitely has "sequelitis", however - there have always been sequels across all Nintendo consoles since the NES. Sure it's become more widespread over the last few years, but sometimes it's just smart business to build on something the consumer is familiar with than to take a risk on a completely new IP. If Nintendo had the largest installed user base, I think it would be much easier for them to be able market fresh, new, original ideas. Until that happens, it's easier to churn out a sequel starring characters most people are already comfortable with.

[Nick DiMola]

There is always rampant criticism of Nintendo and it's sequels, but I just don't see why. These sequels are among the best games in the industry and consistently impress (me at least, and I'm sure others). I think the complaints should be directed more at a lack of new Nintendo IPs rather than a criticism of making sequels.

I agree with Rhoq though of Nintendo had a larger market share and more stability they could start cranking out new IPs without worrying so much about their bottom line. Keep in mind that Nintendo is a publicly owned company and the stock holders have some say in what Nintendo does. Stock holders at this point realize Nintendo sequels sell, thusly encourage the company to produce them.  

[Nick DiMola]

Whoops, double post.

[Deguello]

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Nintendo is being successful by churning out cookie-cutter sequels for the fans and non-games to attract the general public.

What else can they make Ian?  I mean seriously, you are making it unacceptable for them to create anything at all with assy statements like this, giving your inclination against trying Nintendo's truly original titles in favor of bitching that Nintendo doesn't make any truly original titles.  Any game that breaks the mold is considered a non-game or something.  Any game that DOES follow a formula is called a "needless sequel," whatever that means.  Hell what kind of game do you WANT anyway?  It seems you want, lesse...  sequels... but with different characters... and the gameplay has to have new elements without rehashing AND without straying from the original formula.  How is this even possible?  The only games I can think of like that are Drill Dozer and Chibi Robo.

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Nintendo surprised everyone because they did something so odd that no one could see it coming. Still I'm iffy about the plan. Not on how well it will do for Nintendo but how well it will do for me.

Man it's so great that the entire forum had to endure your pessimistic bitching about Nintendo's market position for all these years, so that when things finally are looking up and every appears to be going Nintendo's way you can stop bitching and-  Oh, you just turned your focus elsewhere, to your own personal preferences.  So all the bitching was for naught, and now we get a new round with a different flavor.

I mean seriously?  The DS is your LEAST favorite?   Jesus man, it has EVERYTHING you bitched about over the years.  Original titles?  Check.  Cool sequels?  Check.  New control schemes?  Check.  OLD control schemes?  Check.  Market success?  big check.  3rd parties?  check.  Online?  Check.  3rd parties online? Check.  Critical reception?  Check, they even had to eat crow to do it after buttering up the PSP.  Public perception?  It's sold out everywhere, they love it.  Respect in the gaming world?  It has.  Respect in the NON-Gaming world?  Has that too.  What the hell's left for them to accomplish?  Or is it your least favorite because you really can't bitch about it without almost universal disagreement?

Is this really all about your personal opinion?  I mean if it is, that's fine, I just wanted to know why I had to bear it all in the form of "advice" to Nintendo on how the save their marketshare.  But if it is your opinion, here's a phone, call someone who cares.

[TrueNerd]

Yikes.

I was simply going to tell Ian to play some Elite Beat Agents and realize all is well in the world of the DS, but Deg took that message to a whole other level.

The DS is the first Nintendo system since the SNES where my favorite games for the system are a pretty equal balance of 1st party and 3rd party games. That's a great sign in my book, especially considering that my favorites on N64 and the Cube were at least 90% 1st party games.

As for Kent and his advice, he was right on about some of them. He said Nintendo needed to find a game plan and stick to it, and they've done that. I'd say that this blue ocean initiative has worked rather well these last two years, no? I'd say he was also right about Nintendo abandoning their belle of the ball attitude and their focus on the bottom line, and Nintendo's done that too. It's also helped that Nintendo has stopped sucking ass when it comes to marketing these past couple of years.

However, some of the advice is rather contradictory. On one hand, he wants Nintendo to do what they do best, but on the other, he wants them to Americanize. Huh?

Really, Nintendo DID a number of things Kent suggested, did the opposite of Americanizing, and they're currently in a better position then they've been in in years. Meanwhile, Sony is in the worst position they've ever been in since they came into this industry. I don't think those two things are coincidental. We'll see how long this lasts, but things look good for Nintendo. Really good.  

[Ian Sane]

"Man it's so great that the entire forum had to endure your pessimistic bitching about Nintendo's market position for all these years, so that when things finally are looking up and every appears to be going Nintendo's way you can stop bitching and- Oh, you just turned your focus elsewhere, to your own personal preferences. So all the bitching was for naught, and now we get a new round with a different flavor."

From the get-go my focus was the same.  Nintendo makes great games but owning a Nintendo console lately has been rough.  Sure you get great Nintendo games but the third party support sucks.  And you're often denied a lot of cool features and options because Nintendo either neglects certain things or outright avoids them.  Plus their weak market share gives them less influence in the industry and games have gotten worse as non-gaming companies like Sony have increased their influence.  Plus while they make a profit their market share keeps shrinking and ideally they have to turn that around sooner rather than later before things totally go to crap and Nintendo goes under.  In short I like Nintendo but they're in trouble and if they can turns things around it will not only ensure that they continue to make the great games they do but it will also improve things for all Nintendo console owners.

Nintendo improving their market share by focusing on non-gamers threw a monkeywrench in the whole thing.  I didn't expect it because to me the whole concept of targetting people that are not interested in games at all is thinking outside the box which I wasn't doing.  You know it's a unique idea because no one else but Nintendo was planning on doing it.  The inherent problem with that is while it fixes the market share problem and ensures that Nintendo will exist for the foreseeable future they'll exist as a different game developer than the one that I wanted to continue to exist.  It seems to have shifted more to my personal opinion because I seem to be in the minority.  Others don't seem to be as turned off by this or they don't notice the difference or if they think like I do they left Nintendo years ago or they're such dedicated Nintendo fans that their tastes change according to whatever Nintendo makes.

I think Nintendo has lost a big part of what has made them great and things are just going to go downhill as people get sick of the cookie-cutter sequels and novelty of dumbed-down non-games wears off.  It's all recent enough that it isn't that big of a deal yet but I think it will be.  It's like when your favourite comdey show starts not being as funny but is still watchable for a few more years until you don't like it anymore and when you look back you can notice when things slipped.

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
...

Ah, Deg doing what Deg does best.    

[MarioAllStar]

I really think you are exaggerating how much Nintendo focuses on non-games over traditional games. The main reason we don't get Mario and Zelda games (as well as other Nintendo classics) is that games take longer and cost more to produce now-a-days. Don't get me wrong, I wish we could get three Super Mario Bros. games within five years, but it simply isn't going to happen. For right now, I think that Nintendo's non-games are costing them very little but increasing their marketshare to a point where 3rd parties (who make traditional games) will be attracted to Nintendo systems. Nintendo will be left with enough money to continue making traditional games, and all will be good (even though I think it is pretty good right now).  

[SixthAngel]

Doesn't anyone else realize that Ian will never be happy with videogames again?  Nothing will ever live up to the golden years for him.  Nintendo could enter his dreams and form a game out of it and Ian would complain because it didn't feel like Nintendo but too much like his own design.  He doesn't like new games and he doesn't like updated games, he actually wants to be able to relive playing the games of the past for the first time.  Since that can never happen he will always be pining for an idealic past that exists mostly in his mind thanks to nostalgia and being younger when he played the games.

[Kairon]

What I think is always a big logical failure is having your thinking mapped only to current and historical trends. Hindsight isn't that helpful in creating great products or achieving success. Foresight is.

Any analysis that merely assumes a continuation of current trends is, in my opinion, logically deficient, poorly thought through, and dangerous if followed.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[MarioAllStar]

To be fair, it is perfectly acceptable to wish for Nintendo to be like they used to be. Anyone who denies that Nintendo is different now than it was in the days of the NES/SNES is blind. Heck, the gaming industry itself is a different beast than it was in that era. Since things have changed, there are always going to be people who wish for things the way they used to be.

I too wish for a game to capture me in the way that early Mario and Zelda games did, but I just don't think it is possible. In reality, this might have less to do with the quality of the games and more to do with the memories I have associated with them. Within the last couple of years, I played both A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening for the first time. I can recognize that these are great games, but they do not have the same magic as the original Legend of Zelda does for me.

My main complaint about games these days is that flashy graphics and sounds make games harder to develop. At worst, this can translate into games that may be visually stunning, but lacking in the gameplay department. To see Nintendo say, both with the DS and Wii, that the focus should be on new experiences over graphical upgrades makes me very happy.  

[IceCold]

You're 15 and the original LoZ was the first one you played? I applaud you..

[vudu]

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Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
Yes.  Ocarina of Time is the first one, right?

[MarioAllStar]

Where did this quote come from, sir?!

Yeah, The Legend of Zelda was my first Zelda game. As a young kid, I spent a lot of my time playing Mario, Zelda, and Duck Hunt. I didn't beat Mario or Zelda myself back then, but I'm sure my older brothers did. When I play Zelda now, it can feel a little bit dated, but it is just filled with memories and gives an inexplicable feeling. Likewise, I also have fond memories of Ocarina of Time (my second Zelda game).

[Nephilim]

well the americanize thing is true, if nintendo is making billions now a year, why cant they spend 100k on a excusive like sony or microsoft, which will end up selling a million copys and increase market share

they make the freakin money back anyway

[denjet78]

Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyD
well the americanize thing is true, if nintendo is making billions now a year, why cant they spend 100k on a excusive like sony or microsoft, which will end up selling a million copys and increase market share

they make the freakin money back anyway

If Nintendo tried to get into a bidding war over an exclusive with Sony and MS, they'd lose every time. They don't have the resources to fight a protracted battle like that. The only reason the entire industry hasn't completely gone to putz is because Nintendo doesn't do business like Sony and MS.

[Khushrenada]

But maybe Nintendo should do that. Let the other companies keep outbidding them. Jus make them have to pay more for exclusives. Then, there's less room for them to make money on exclusives and if some fail, that's a bigger hit on their profits. The more money lose this way, then the sooner they will stop always bidding so much.

[Kairon]

But Sony and MS are doing that anyways between the two of them.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com