Topic: Episode 430: Dad Humor Overload

[Jonnyboy117]

Crouching Squid, Rolling Thunder

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/40266/episode-430-dad-humor-overload

We recorded this episode much earlier in the week than normal, and we had to keep it fairly short as a result. However, doing it this way allowed James to participate after all (he hadn't left for his trip quite yet), and the lack of preparation time allowed us to focus entirely on the Splatoon Global Testfire, as well as extended thoughts on the game in general. We also squeezed in a Thunder Round of emails before the end. In keeping with this short and straightforward episode, here are the raw show notes that we used for the recording.

Intro - Early show, so limited New Biz and a quick Thunder Round coming up. But first...

All - SPLATOON TESTFIRE

BREAK - NOW PLIZZAYING

LISTENER MAIL THUNDER ROUND - rfn@nwr

------------
Brad writes:
It looks more and more like a Punch Out title is headed to either the WiiU or 3DS. Perhaps a deep look at the rest of the Smash Character roster gives us other clues? Maybe something with ROB?

Second, a friend lent me his VITA and I'm pretty amazed at that kit. Why is it the strongest system technically is often the loser in the race? Is it just a matter of cost? If a 3DS had a screen on par with the VITA, I'd lose my friggin' mind.
------------
Bally from London writes:
If we don't see Metroid, F-zero or even Advance Wars at this year's E3 does it mean that these series are all but dead?
------------
Bryant writes:
Short and sweet: Why in the year 2015 do I have to set my Wii-U and 3DS clock like a VCR? Why can't it automatically be set through the Internet like the other guys? Seriously?
------------
Pandaradox writes:
Scenario: You get to reboot Pokémon! Two questions: 1) Where in the pokédex do you trim it back to? 2) What new mechanics do you keep?
------------
Crys writes:
I have a question in regards to ethics in video gaming. When I updated my 3DS XL to the not-so-stupidly named "New" 3DS XL, I chose to not trade in my old system for a credit toward the new system. Instead I decided to utilize my old system as a sort of "StreetPass Bot" if you will. Where I have the Mii in a line green shirt with a birthday of February 29. People have told me that utilizing the 3DS in this way is cheating. What do you guys think about this?
------------

Outro - rfn@nwr

[TOPHATANT123]

I felt both using just motion controls or just the right stick was clunky, but the most organic way to play Splatoon was the combination of both, depending on the situation it allows for either wide or precise movements and just felt great in my opinion.

The Ruby/Sapphire remakes actually sold 10 Million copies which is crazy when you think about it. I got the game myself and haven't properly sunk my teeth into it yet, maybe I'm part of the problem...

As for Jonny's career wide crusade to turn Pokemon into Final Fantasy, I would actually recommend the DS mystery dungeon games. As James said in his very original review the story and presentation is shockingly good and despite the somewhat tedious gameplay there is something mysteriously addictive about it.

[ClexYoshi]

I'd like to direct Ty Shugart to this thread for more scrub quotes. although thankfully Lindy wasn't calling for nintendo to pls nerf, at least.

[Shaymin]

Outside of event legendaries, you can pretty much get every single Pokemon between X/Y and Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire. (They stuck 450+ Pokemon in XY and all the legendaries into OR/AS with some really weird story justification.)

And I'll give the typical response to HM complaints: Black and White (1). It pretty much breaks all the rules between how the story breaks down and how they handle HMs (there's only one portion of the game where they're required, and your Pokedex will be under 6 when it is; every other time is for optional exploration). It even gives a good example of what the fabled reboot that will never happen would look like.

[Kobeskillz]

Pretty harsh on splatoon but I loved the demo. 

[- NintendoFan -]

I need more Now Playing raps.

[Enner]

Good show.

The Splatoon segment was a healthy dose of needed skepticism and questioning that is far too absent in the talk of video games. Not a surprise that some drive-by tweeters or second-hand forumers have taken that pill poorly. Some of the questions and concerns are addressed in the pre-release coverage of Splatoon, but many are things that no one will have answers to until a few months after release. I find gleeful, somewhat morbid excitement in the unknowns of Splatoon as some dark part of me is anticipating how Nintendo will screw it up. Hearing the Splatoon segment provided some much needed contrast that my attitude with Nintendo's first foray in to well-trodden territory is different.

I should note that I'm eagerly waiting to buy my copy of Splatoon at launch as I'm loving a lot of what I see in preview coverage and not seeing much to dissuade me.

[Soren]

Gotta love the iTunes description of this episode.

Short episode this week! Everyone chimes in on their Splatoon Nintendo Direct and Test Fire impressions, followed by a Listener Mail Thunder Round.

This was a rough listen. I'm team Gui on this one. I don't mind divergent opinions(and at some points the debate on this pod were great), but I think the debate would have been better had everyone watched the Direct, even if just to crap on it. The single player discussion was specially egregious.

[Kobeskillz]

Good show.

The Splatoon segment was a healthy dose of needed skepticism and questioning that is far too absent in the talk of video games. Not a surprise that some drive-by tweeters or second-hand forumers have taken that pill poorly. Some of the questions and concerns are addressed in the pre-release coverage of Splatoon, but many are things that no one will have answers to until a few months after release. I find gleeful, somewhat morbid excitement in the unknowns of Splatoon as some dark part of me is anticipating how Nintendo will screw it up. Hearing the Splatoon segment provided some much needed contrast that my attitude with Nintendo's first foray in to well-trodden territory is different.

I should note that I'm eagerly waiting to buy my copy of Splatoon at launch as I'm loving a lot of what I see in preview coverage and not seeing much to dissuade me.

Second hand? Lol. Wow.

I think the crew was pretty negative at times. Yes the game has a lot of unanswered questions but like gui said they didn't even watch the direct. Basically uninformed opinions. Still considering the game isn't even out yet and early previews of the final game suggest it has a much better single player than Titan fall.

[Jonnyboy117]

I sincerely wanted to watch the Direct Before that show but didn't have a good chance to do so. I've been extremely busy for the last few weeks and just now got to see the Direct. No major surprises for me -- the campaign is more distinct than I realized, with a lot of special assets and good usage of the platforming mechanics. I'm still curious to hear about how the game strings together those levels and missions. As I knew would be the case, my other questions about the online infrastructure, Pro controller support, and meta-game were not answered by the Direct. It'll just be a matter of time. I have no interest in feeding Nintendo's pre-order/launch buzz machine. It's not so reliable for a game like this.

[Kobeskillz]

I sincerely wanted to watch the Direct Before that show but didn't have a good chance to do so. I've been extremely busy for the last few weeks and just now got to see the Direct. No major surprises for me -- the campaign is more distinct than I realized, with a lot of special assets and good usage of the platforming mechanics. I'm still curious to hear about how the game strings together those levels and missions. As I knew would be the case, my other questions about the online infrastructure, Pro controller support, and meta-game were not answered by the Direct. It'll just be a matter of time. I have no interest in feeding Nintendo's pre-order/launch buzz machine. It's not so reliable for a game like this.

I know some people prefer pro controllers but in this game with the map being soooo important and the instant jump to positions why oh why would you choose the pro over the pad?

People complain that Nintendo should include the pad more often and then they do basically is like no pro support no deal. Aye.

I think being Nintendo fans you should temper expectations. I think it's clear by now that splatoon won't be like call of duty or other shooters in online options features and support. Mario kart and smash kept it simple as well. It's the Nintendo way and to compare splatoon to other shooters is silly.

I mean call of duty is the android of shooters and splatoon is the iPhone. People who have iPhones Accept simplicity but highly optimized experience. You want androids go get an android but don't have one and wish it was like the other.

to be fair I wasn't sold on the game until the direct and demo. Those two combined really sold me on the game. I'm not a big online shooter guy (except halo 2 back in the day) but this game was tons of fun without some jack ass calling me every four letter word in the book.

[Jonnyboy117]

Pro controller is more comfortable, simply put. I like the GamePad for some kinds of games, but I don't care for it much when playing fast action games. And yes, that's a minor challenge when Splatoon leverages an interactive map and the (brilliant) jump-spawn feature. But every Wii U comes with a plastic stand to set your GamePad on a table next to or in front of you, which seems like it could work well for this game. Nintendo could also include an overlay of the map and the option to select a jump destination with the sticks/D-pad while the overlay is shown. Maybe it wouldn't be as quick as the GamePad screen, but it's normal for high-skill players to find that one control method is more competitive than others.

[pokepal148]

Good show.

The Splatoon segment was a healthy dose of needed skepticism and questioning that is far too absent in the talk of video games. Not a surprise that some drive-by tweeters or second-hand forumers have taken that pill poorly. Some of the questions and concerns are addressed in the pre-release coverage of Splatoon, but many are things that no one will have answers to until a few months after release. I find gleeful, somewhat morbid excitement in the unknowns of Splatoon as some dark part of me is anticipating how Nintendo will screw it up. Hearing the Splatoon segment provided some much needed contrast that my attitude with Nintendo's first foray in to well-trodden territory is different.

I should note that I'm eagerly waiting to buy my copy of Splatoon at launch as I'm loving a lot of what I see in preview coverage and not seeing much to dissuade me.

Second hand? Lol. Wow.

I think the crew was pretty negative at times. Yes the game has a lot of unanswered questions but like gui said they didn't even watch the direct. Basically uninformed opinions. Still considering the game isn't even out yet and early previews of the final game suggest it has a much better single player than Titan fall.

What's this? Uninformed opinions on a game that won't be out until next month? STOP THE PRESSES!!!!

[pokepal148]

Also: I want a 'Merica themed now playing.

[Oedo]

I know some people prefer pro controllers but in this game with the map being soooo important and the instant jump to positions why oh why would you choose the pro over the pad?

People complain that Nintendo should include the pad more often and then they do basically is like no pro support no deal. Aye.

I think being Nintendo fans you should temper expectations. I think it's clear by now that splatoon won't be like call of duty or other shooters in online options features and support. Mario kart and smash kept it simple as well. It's the Nintendo way and to compare splatoon to other shooters is silly.

I mean call of duty is the android of shooters and splatoon is the iPhone. People who have iPhones Accept simplicity but highly optimized experience. You want androids go get an android but don't have one and wish it was like the other.

to be fair I wasn't sold on the game until the direct and demo. Those two combined really sold me on the game. I'm not a big online shooter guy (except halo 2 back in the day) but this game was tons of fun without some jack ass calling me every four letter word in the book.

People should be able to decide for themselves how they like to play the game, rather than having a single decision forced on them, and that's the issue. If a Pro Controller and an on-screen map don't make for as good an experience as playing with the Gamepad, people will go back to playing with the Gamepad. Personally, after playing the game, I think I'd prefer an on-screen map (even if it wasn't as good). I'd definitely prefer the feel of the Pro Controller for a game like this. At the very least, I'd like to have the option to try it.


If they don't support the Pro Controller online, it's not a huge deal for me. But I said the same thing about no voice chat. And friend matching not coming until August. And no loadout changes during matches. Individually these aren't huge issues, but collectively they're a little troubling. It doesn't leave a lot of room for other shortcomings in the game, a lot of which the guys brought up on the show. You're right; Splatoon is a different enough concept that it shouldn't be directly compared to most other shooters. That doesn't mean you should lower the bar for features that are pretty basic and have been for many, many years though. It's not an issue of the game not having tons of features like the newest iteration of CoD, it's about the game seemingly missing standard features. I'm sure the core gameplay is going to be fun as hell, but I still wish Nintendo would stop giving people reasons not to get this game. They should be going out of their way to eliminate as many obstacles as possible since how good this game ultimately ends up being depends on how large and invested the community is going to be.

[NWR_Lindy]

If they don't support the Pro Controller online, it's not a huge deal for me. But I said the same thing about no voice chat. And friend matching not coming until August. And no loadout changes during matches. Individually these aren't huge issues, but collectively they're a little troubling. It doesn't leave a lot of room for other shortcomings in the game, a lot of which the guys brought up on the show.

This is the point I was trying to make on the show. These are all "little things", but with shooters it's effectively the same game repeatedly, so things that are missing become really obvious really quickly.

The single-player looks pretty substantial, 27 levels and kinda Super Mario 3D World-ish, which is cool.  So that's good.

[Kobeskillz]

I know some people prefer pro controllers but in this game with the map being soooo important and the instant jump to positions why oh why would you choose the pro over the pad?

People complain that Nintendo should include the pad more often and then they do basically is like no pro support no deal. Aye.

I think being Nintendo fans you should temper expectations. I think it's clear by now that splatoon won't be like call of duty or other shooters in online options features and support. Mario kart and smash kept it simple as well. It's the Nintendo way and to compare splatoon to other shooters is silly.

I mean call of duty is the android of shooters and splatoon is the iPhone. People who have iPhones Accept simplicity but highly optimized experience. You want androids go get an android but don't have one and wish it was like the other.

to be fair I wasn't sold on the game until the direct and demo. Those two combined really sold me on the game. I'm not a big online shooter guy (except halo 2 back in the day) but this game was tons of fun without some jack ass calling me every four letter word in the book.

People should be able to decide for themselves how they like to play the game, rather than having a single decision forced on them, and that's the issue. If a Pro Controller and an on-screen map don't make for as good an experience as playing with the Gamepad, people will go back to playing with the Gamepad. Personally, after playing the game, I think I'd prefer an on-screen map (even if it wasn't as good). I'd definitely prefer the feel of the Pro Controller for a game like this. At the very least, I'd like to have the option to try it.


If they don't support the Pro Controller online, it's not a huge deal for me. But I said the same thing about no voice chat. And friend matching not coming until August. And no loadout changes during matches. Individually these aren't huge issues, but collectively they're a little troubling. It doesn't leave a lot of room for other shortcomings in the game, a lot of which the guys brought up on the show. You're right; Splatoon is a different enough concept that it shouldn't be directly compared to most other shooters. That doesn't mean you should lower the bar for features that are pretty basic and have been for many, many years though. It's not an issue of the game not having tons of features like the newest iteration of CoD, it's about the game seemingly missing standard features. I'm sure the core gameplay is going to be fun as hell, but I still wish Nintendo would stop giving people reasons not to get this game. They should be going out of their way to eliminate as many obstacles as possible since how good this game ultimately ends up being depends on how large and invested the community is going to be.

Well no not really. Is just the Wii U is in a unique position where it supports multiple control options but nothing says the people should decide anything. The developers decide what control method they want to support.
 
Mario Galaxy didn’t support the classic or Pro. Tons of games haven’t supported other control options and I think it’s silly for people to complain about games not having unique wii u features then complain when pro support isn’t there. MMmm ok.
 
Zombi U didn’t support the Pro either for single player. I understand Splatoon doesn’t incorporate the pad as much as Zombi U but it still pretty important to look at the map on screen and to teleport. Now could you have a map on screen? Of course you can but the devs wanted you to take that risk reward of looking down on the pad but also being vulnerable like in zombie you when you manage inventory.
 
I find it hilarious that long timers here are getting defensive about me giving my opinion on their opinions. Lol.
 
I felt the conversation was a bit negative on a game we still don’t know much about. I would bet the house the game isn’t as feature loaded as other shooters just how Pikmin was a lighter take on its respective field. 
 
I go back to my previous comment about Iphone vs Androids. Splatoon will be a very polished, simpler and more approachable take on an established area.
 
Plus compare pikmin 1 with 3. Night and day except Splatoon has the ability to get patched and updated to flesh it out with time. Free updates too.
 
That’s my 2 cents.

[Enner]

Second hand? Lol. Wow.

On Twitter, the panel has stated that they have received or made aware of complaints of what they said on the podcast. However, these complaints were informed by text summaries of the podcast on other forums.

I didn't know what to call these people so I made up "second-hand forumers" on the spot  :x

[Oedo]

Well no not really. Is just the Wii U is in a unique position where it supports multiple control options but nothing says the people should decide anything. The developers decide what control method they want to support.
 
Mario Galaxy didn’t support the classic or Pro. Tons of games haven’t supported other control options and I think it’s silly for people to complain about games not having unique wii u features then complain when pro support isn’t there. MMmm ok.
 
Zombi U didn’t support the Pro either for single player. I understand Splatoon doesn’t incorporate the pad as much as Zombi U but it still pretty important to look at the map on screen and to teleport. Now could you have a map on screen? Of course you can but the devs wanted you to take that risk reward of looking down on the pad but also being vulnerable like in zombie you when you manage inventory.
 
I find it hilarious that long timers here are getting defensive about me giving my opinion on their opinions. Lol.
 
I felt the conversation was a bit negative on a game we still don’t know much about. I would bet the house the game isn’t as feature loaded as other shooters just how Pikmin was a lighter take on its respective field. 
 
I go back to my previous comment about Iphone vs Androids. Splatoon will be a very polished, simpler and more approachable take on an established area.
 
Plus compare pikmin 1 with 3. Night and day except Splatoon has the ability to get patched and updated to flesh it out with time. Free updates too.
 
That’s my 2 cents.

My point wasn't that Nintendo should let people decide what controllers they support in their games. My point was that people should be able to decide for themselves what the best way to play the game is. That's why "the Gamepad is the better way to play" isn't a valid justification for a lack of Pro Controller support in online multiplayer, at least to me. The only reason the Pro Controller shouldn't be supported in online multiplayer is if Gamepad is so integral to the game that it'd be effectively impossible to play without it, or if they came up against some other hurdle related to working in Pro Controller support. We obviously know the latter can't be the reason since we know it's going to be in local multiplayer. And while I agree that this is one of the better ways they've used the Gamepad, it's not so integral that there is no way you could play without it. And you don't even necessarily have to play without it; like Jonny said, there's no reason you can't have the Gamepad next to you while you're playing with the Pro Controller.


I don't think anyone is being particularly negative. People are just asking (legitimate) questions. You can be excited about a game and still have questions or doubts. I agree with what you said in your other post; people need to temper their expectations. I think you do that by thinking critically about the game after the excitement of playing the stress test has worn off (especially for those of us who were playing the game for the first time). If it's all excitement, all the time, that's how you end up being disappointed and possibly disliking a good game simply because it couldn't live up to your lofty expectations. If you go into it with your eyes wide open, at least you already know where the potential shortcomings might be and can devote more time to appreciating the parts of the game that are actually good.

[Kobeskillz]

Well no not really. Is just the Wii U is in a unique position where it supports multiple control options but nothing says the people should decide anything. The developers decide what control method they want to support.
 
Mario Galaxy didn’t support the classic or Pro. Tons of games haven’t supported other control options and I think it’s silly for people to complain about games not having unique wii u features then complain when pro support isn’t there. MMmm ok.
 
Zombi U didn’t support the Pro either for single player. I understand Splatoon doesn’t incorporate the pad as much as Zombi U but it still pretty important to look at the map on screen and to teleport. Now could you have a map on screen? Of course you can but the devs wanted you to take that risk reward of looking down on the pad but also being vulnerable like in zombie you when you manage inventory.
 
I find it hilarious that long timers here are getting defensive about me giving my opinion on their opinions. Lol.
 
I felt the conversation was a bit negative on a game we still don’t know much about. I would bet the house the game isn’t as feature loaded as other shooters just how Pikmin was a lighter take on its respective field. 
 
I go back to my previous comment about Iphone vs Androids. Splatoon will be a very polished, simpler and more approachable take on an established area.
 
Plus compare pikmin 1 with 3. Night and day except Splatoon has the ability to get patched and updated to flesh it out with time. Free updates too.
 
That’s my 2 cents.

My point wasn't that Nintendo should let people decide what controllers they support in their games. My point was that people should be able to decide for themselves what the best way to play the game is. That's why "the Gamepad is the better way to play" isn't a valid justification for a lack of Pro Controller support in online multiplayer, at least to me. The only reason the Pro Controller shouldn't be supported in online multiplayer is if Gamepad is so integral to the game that it'd be effectively impossible to play without it, or if they came up against some other hurdle related to working in Pro Controller support. We obviously know the latter can't be the reason since we know it's going to be in local multiplayer. And while I agree that this is one of the better ways they've used the Gamepad, it's not so integral that there is no way you could play without it. And you don't even necessarily have to play without it; like Jonny said, there's no reason you can't have the Gamepad next to you while you're playing with the Pro Controller.


I don't think anyone is being particularly negative. People are just asking (legitimate) questions. You can be excited about a game and still have questions or doubts. I agree with what you said in your other post; people need to temper their expectations. I think you do that by thinking critically about the game after the excitement of playing the stress test has worn off (especially for those of us who were playing the game for the first time). If it's all excitement, all the time, that's how you end up being disappointed and possibly disliking a good game simply because it couldn't live up to your lofty expectations. If you go into it with your eyes wide open, at least you already know where the potential shortcomings might be and can devote more time to appreciating the parts of the game that are actually good.

No you know you make good points and I think you can see it both ways you know.
 
I just I hear the gang talking about call of duty and other shooters and I’m like come on guys!!! I love the show man I really really do but the crew makes me pull my hair at times. I mean ive been a Nintendo fan since the NES in 86 and by now we should know what to expect.
 
I understand the guys want the features already standard in other shooters but this is Nintendo. They do things their way and it’s been like this since forever.
 
Personally I ok with the simplistic approach since I’m not big on shooters. I also understand the other side of it but I wish looking at things from a glass half full perspective would creep up more in the show instead of weekly Gui vs RFN.
 
They are starting to turn into the grumpy old Nintendo get of my lawn guys. Lol. No no better yet the old guys from the Muppets that criticize everything lol.

[Crimm]

If I wanted a weekly argument with Gui, I know how to get it. I will point out that I asked listeners to go back to my E3 impressions - which were very high. The game still mechanically plays well.


I think the "control choice is a developer decision" is a fine point, but the devs opened the door by saying it will support offline multiplayer. Explicitly stated, the game already already DOES have Pro support in some contexts. I can see why people want to play with the Pro Controller if they know the game has already solved the problem.


The concern I state is that the game gets its value from online. I don't know that the community will be active.


Additionally, I'm not happy about the running trend of releasing games in near-or in some cases-semi completed state. A lot of stuff is missing from Splatoon's launch that seems largely inexcusable.

[Traveller]

I found the controls were alright, using a combination of motion and the right stick seemed to work well. Right stick mainly for horizontal movement.

[Shaymin]

The "second hand" forum in this case refers to what we in the business usually call a "prominent internet messageboard" NeoGAF.

[NWR_Lindy]

Pro Controller support wouldn't be that hard to implement. When somebody spawns simply overlay the map on the screen and allow them to choose their spawn point that way instead of on the Gamepad.  It's already been done in other shooters, such as the Killzone series, where players can place spawn points at the other side of the map and you can choose to spawn deep in enemy territory if you'd like.

Yes, Nintendo does things differently, but it doesn't mean that I'm cutting them slack when they do dumb things or do things in a sub-standard fashion.  The least they can do is include features that have already been well-vetted in the genre instead of omitting them for arbitrary reasons.

[pokepal148]

Are we really bitching about Pro Controller support over... idk... Voice Chat???