Topic: Off-Topic Wise-Ass Comments About Other NWR Forum Threads And Also Other Stuff

[pokepal148]

Man I can be just sadistic...

[Khushrenada]

I've compared the relationship between myself and Khush to Dave Nelson and Bill McNeil on NewsRadio, and the third episode of season four, "The Public Domain," in addition to probably being the best episode of that show, is I think the perfect example of that in motion.

Bring this goon to me!  I have a plan.


Perhaps you may want to read the A.V. Club's write-up on this and other episodes here.

When I think NewsRadio, I often think of this episode right away also. The show was really firing on all cylinders in Season 4.

[NWR_insanolord]

Yeah, season 4 is just incredible, one great episode after another. I already had that article saved to read, I'm looking forward to it.

[NWR_insanolord]

There's also this one, arguing that NewsRadio was the best sitcom of the 1990s, albeit with the somewhat dubious argument that The Simpsons didn't count as a sitcom.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

There's also this one, arguing that NewsRadio was the best sitcom of the 1990s, albeit with the somewhat dubious argument that The Simpsons didn't count as a sitcom.

Best Sitcom of the 90's was Friends. Sorry but it just was. Home Improvement, Roseanne, both tied for second place. That 70's show would have won but it is more post-2000 than actually 90's so it was a tough one to call. Simpson's is a cartoon not a sitcom. It is a comedy cartoon aimed at adults but it is not a sitcom sorry. I am right in this don't even try to say otherwise you will fail. Now Futurama is a sitcom if you want to get technical but Simpson's is toilet humor wrapped up in a candy cartoon coating.

[NWR_insanolord]

Basically everything in your post is wrong. I don't know how you can consider Futurama a sitcom and The Simpsons not.

[Khushrenada]

Pretty sure he's just being sarcastic.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

Pretty sure he's just being sarcastic.

winner

[NWR_insanolord]

Okay then, you get to remain a member of the forums.

[Khushrenada]

There's also this one, arguing that NewsRadio was the best sitcom of the 1990s, albeit with the somewhat dubious argument that The Simpsons didn't count as a sitcom.

Yeah, even as much as I like NewsRadio, I'd have to give Seinfeld the nod as best sitcom of the 90's still. I understand not including The Simpsons because when I think of it and its episodes, it doesn't feel like the same beats and structure of a traditional sitcom. Likewise, if you were just to say best comedy of the 90's then I'd give that to The Simpsons as well.

Then there's the fact that NewsRadio lost Phil Hartman after the 4th season which does tarnish things a bit even though there is still some really funny stuff in the 5th season. To it's credit, I always found the Pilot a great episode, especially with its ending punchline, and the show starts off strong and doesn't really have to take a long time to find its footing. However, when comparing it to other shows, The Simpsons in the 90's rarely made any mis-steps and Seinfeld was able to have a longer sustained run and more influence and I really did enjoy them both.

However, nowadays, if I had to choose between watching an episode of Seinfeld or NewsRadio, I'd choose NewsRadio. Between The Simpsons and NewsRadio, it is 50/50 and depends on the episode of The Simpsons and how long since I've last seen it. Time has become kinder to NewsRadio it seems. The article makes a few good points as to why that is I think. I especially liked this line at the end: "It was a series that used these very old forms to tell a very new story about ... how tiny events (like a change in snacks or one person getting a new chair) can spin out of control into immense crises." That really sums up the show well.

Also helping NewsRadio is the way the series ended. Although part of me wonders what the show could have been like if it continued on by trying the idea of going from New York to small town radio considering how successful some shows have been when shaking up and changing the format of the show, at least it still ends on a pretty perfect note considering who stays and who goes from all that had come before on the series.

[NWR_insanolord]

The article I posted makes a good argument about with how well-balanced the different characters were in relation to each other they had a really hard time trying to replace Bill in that dynamic. It's hard for any show to lose anybody unexpectedly, but the way NewsRadio was constructed and the caliber of talent Phil Hartman was made it even worse. I do wonder what might have happened if he hadn't died and NBC had actually respected the show.

[Khushrenada]

That is a sad "what if" scenario. However, considering that NewsRadio's trajectory reminds me a bit of Parks and Recreation or even The Office, I'd say that it probably would have also had a killer season 5 especially with a lot of the ideas that 5 had and then it may have begun to stall in a sixth season. At the same time, I'm not sure if popularity would have helped it or not. It seems sometimes that shows that aren't getting huge ratings are able to be more free and are less managed.

Look at what happened with Heroes. It become a big success in Season 1 and then the creators were afraid to stick with their plan of doing a new cast the next season and of now trying to keep the public happy with the characters they had invested in but there didn't seem to be much of a plan going forward. The writers on The Simpsons often spoke about how they were able to get away with a lot of stuff because network management didn't feel important watching over an animated program compared to a drama or sitcom. With less network oversight from not caring too much about what they were doing, it helped The Simpsons and probably helped NewsRadio.

Obviously, any time a show can keep its original cast together is for the best. MASH is still easily one of my 5 all time favorite shows yet there's no denying the shifts and tonal changes that occurred as various cast members left. It kept things interesting in a way but you lost an interesting dynamic and source of humour as well. I do wonder if the hiring of Lovitz was the best choice of replacement. I understand the reasoning behind it but considering how they couldn't get a good handle on him, it may have been better to think of what kind of character might fit in better with the crew than a sentimental hiring and trying to make it work on the fly. I guess as a further testament to Hartman even The Simpsons was hurt by losing Lionel Hutz and Troy McClure in his death. It would always be a challenge to replace a talent like his.

[pokepal148]

I'll take it under advisement.

Advisement complete. No.

He fits in perfectly with the moderation staff.

[NWR_insanolord]

Obviously, any time a show can keep its original cast together is for the best.

I don't this is necessarily always true. As an example to the contrary, I don't think Cheers would have been as great of a show as it was if Shelley Long had stayed. They'd reached the limit of what they could do with the Sam and Diane relationship, and her leaving forced them to change things up, which I think benefited the show in the long run.

[Khushrenada]

Perhaps, although it did help that they introduced new characters organically. Frasier Crane came in because of that which led to Lillith. Other character were introduced by other character. For instance, Woody would later have a girlfriend and fiancé who's name I forget. There were other bat patrons that become regular bit players like Paul. Using that growth and introduction of other characters could help to freshen up and create new dynamics with the characters without losing the central conflict of the show.

It goes back to my MASH point, that there is no doubt the show has a different tone and pace from the Rebecca Howe years compared to the Diane Chamber years. It went from that butting of two personalities to more of a workplace / crazy antics dynamic.

Seinfeld kept it's core together and almost all of its minor players as well over its run which I think benefitted it. Aside from Hartman, The Simpsons kept all their characters and voice actors through the 90's to their benefit.

Sometimes a change is good like when Parks and Rec let of of Mark B. and brought in Ben and Chris. I think I made a comment of this in the rate the last TV show you saw thread when I reviewed the last P&R episode but I think a big part of season 6 being a weaker season was limitations on availability of cast members and losing some. It creates a period of adjustment. At the same time, you do run out of material sometimes with a character. Chris Treager seemed to suffer that problem. Around the time they started to have him go through a period of being depressed, his character just seemed lost until they finally hooked him up with Ann and they both departed. But Treager wasn't really a part of the main dynamic of the show which I'd say was Leslie/Ron and Leslie/Ben. It's like how Catherine leaving NewsRadio didn't make a major impact although I think there were some subtle impacts from it.

I guess there's some fine line to it all but, in Bill McNeal's case, he was definitely a major component of the show's dynamic and there was plenty more comedy to mine from that character. It's not like the role had become tired or that it was good timing for an exit. It was abrupt. It created a void and, try as it did, it couldn't quite recover.

[NWR_insanolord]

Speaking of Catherine, you have to wonder what might have happened if she stayed. If she was still there for season 5, they probably could have gotten away with not replacing Bill, still having her as the on-air talker person, which could have sidestepped some of the issues they had. Ironically she left because she (somewhat rightfully) thought her character was underused, when if she'd been there a bit longer she'd have been hugely important.

[Khushrenada]

Speaking of Catherine, you have to wonder what might have happened if she stayed. If she was still there for season 5, they probably could have gotten away with not replacing Bill, still having her as the on-air talker person, which could have sidestepped some of the issues they had. Ironically she left because she (somewhat rightfully) thought her character was underused, when if she'd been there a bit longer she'd have been hugely important.

That's a good point. I never thought about that but I think you're right. Perhaps if they had been able to address that issue and use her a bit more, it might have helped scale back some of the reliance on Phil Hartman which then would have helped further when he was lost. Having her around could have helped in the fifth season as well and I could see her making a good foil for Max as well when I think of their personalities. That is rather ironic. It does strengthen my point that keeping a cast intact is good even when a person may not be fully utilized at times.

[UncleBob]

For instance, Woody would later have a girlfriend and fiancé who's name I forget.

WHAT?  YOU FORGOT?!?!

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=K1Q5RLl5soE

[Khushrenada]

It was Kelly, right? I think it just came to me as you made me think of it again. Was that link supposed to work because it just seems to take me to YouTube's main page.

[NWR_insanolord]

It was Kelly. She was used pretty significantly toward the end, including them getting a big two-part wedding episode. You're right about the sheer number of regular characters on that show making it a whole different beast.

[Khushrenada]

It was Kelly. She was used pretty significantly toward the end, including them getting a big two-part wedding episode.

Recently, I had seen a few of the last season episodes of Cheers and she seemed to be popping up a lot.

You're right about the sheer number of regular characters on that show making it a whole different beast.

Yes, come sit a spell as Khushrenada makes prescient points about all manner of TV. Except Bob's Burgers because that show sucks.

[broodwars]

There's also this one, arguing that NewsRadio was the best sitcom of the 1990s, albeit with the somewhat dubious argument that The Simpsons didn't count as a sitcom.

I'll see your NewsRadio "best comedy of the 90s" argument and counter with Murphy Brown.

[Khushrenada]

I guess the first question is, have you watched NewsRadio?

However, when I was reading the article about NewsRadio being the best of the 90's, I then looked up other shows in the 90's. There were two that stuck out to me as possibly being better. One is The Larry Saunders Show which I've never seen but always heard good things about. The other was Murphy Brown. The problem is, I haven't seen Murphy Brown since when it was first airing on the air so I can't recall how well it still holds up. But I remember not caring as much for it when Miles left so I think that is a knock on it. As far as a comedy show goes, then there is a 3rd dark horse candidate. Mr. Show. Again, I've heard good things about it and haven't seen any of it yet.

So, right now, I'm saying there's a chance you could be right but maybe Insanolord can put this matter to rest.

[BranDonk Kong]

There sure are a lot of crazy people trying to get into the White House lately.

[NWR_insanolord]

The issue with Murphy Brown is that based on what I've seen it's very leveraged on topical humor which really doesn't age well. I haven't seen a ton of it, though. And Mr. Show is amazing, probably my favorite sketch comedy show ever, but it's a completely different kind of thing.