Topic: Epic Mickey - Wii Exclusive

[Kytim89]

I just bought htis game today by taking advantage of a 25% trad-in bonus from Gamestop. I have not yet a chance to play the game, but the biggest problem that I have is the artwork for the case. It just has Mickey and Oswald with a string of paint and a white back ground. I have seen artwork of Mickey facin off against the Phantom Blot and would have prefered that instead.

Eh, I'm ok with the cover art.  It doesn't wow me or anything, but it's serviceable and there's a lot of detail hidden in that paint on the cover when you look closely.  I am a little surprised Disney didn't go for some kind of larger composite shot, though, since that's what's common in Western cover art.  The Epic Mickey cover art is more like what you'd see from Japan.

They may have went withthe cover art in oder to avoid alienating parents who may want to buy this game for their kids.

[TheFleece]

I've been playing Epic Mickey and the only thing that really sucks is the camera. Often times the camera freaks out and gets stuck at an angle that will force you to move in the wrong way. This hasn't resulted in death yet so I'm not that upset about it. Also having to replay through the old cartoon side scroller pages every damn time I move between worlds is so redundant and predictable. I wish I were able to avoid them.
The rest of the game is surprisingly well. When I started it up I thought "Oh no I bought a Disney game! What do I do", but then about an hour in I had to remind myself that I'm playing a Disney game. The game doesn't hold your hand too long and soon things really start to open up.  The controls are fine aside from the camera beef, the sound effects are better than the music and the graphics are really amazing.

[Sundoulos]

I've only played long enough to reach the first boss character.  I'm enjoying it.  It does seems like a throwback to N64 platforming, with all of the fetch quests and collecting (at least most of it is optional). 

I'm enjoying the aesthetic of the game, but I do wonder if the designers shackled themselves too much to the paint/thinner mechanic.  As far as I can tell, all you really need to do to defeat an enemy is hose them down with paint or thinner; it would have been more satisfying to have to use the paintbrush strategically with other actions in combat (e.g. spray an armored enemy with thinner to make him vulnerable to a jump or spin attack, or paint something on an enemy to make him slower or heavier).  Perhaps I'm just too early in the game to have seen things like this, but I feel as if it's a missed opportunity.

[Mop it up]

I'm wary of Epic Mickey. Pretty much every review mentions the same issues, even the positive ones don't have many nice things to say about the actual gameplay. They all say the camera is horrible, some say the controls are too, and many agree the gameplay is too simplistic, dull, and repetitive. Yet there are some pretty praising reviews out there... I can't help but wonder if this is another case of Scribblenauts or SSBBrawl's single player, where the media love it because of its concept but don't seem to care about the actual gameplay. I'll probably still buy it at some point, but it's going to be fairly cheap.

[NWR_insanolord]

The vibe I get is that if you're into Disney stuff you'll like it a lot, and if you're not you probably won't.

[Mop it up]

Sure, but it is just the Disney references those people are enjoying, or is it the actual gameplay? People, especially reviewers, shouldn't tolerate a mediocre game just because it's full of great Disney character.

[that Baby guy]

I wouldn't exactly say that.  I love most Disney stuff, and I thought that aside from Mickeyjunk Mountain and a few references here and there, the Disney stuff missed the mark quite a bit.  Pirates of the Caribbean totally failed to capture anything close to the feel of the ride.  Same with It's a Small World.  Tomorrowland has almost no resemblance to the actual theme park variations, at all.  Oztown and Mean Street do a good job representing the real things, but they're very small areas and far too much time is spent in them.

Those 2D cartoons were poor representations, too, and nearly every one lacked providing the feeling of the original cartoons. Oh, and they were about as dull as possible to play through, too.

Anyway, yeah.  I don't personally think the Disney references are up to snuff, even compared to say, the SNES and Genesis Mickey Mania, where the stages are solid references and remain fun to play.

[NWR_insanolord]

Sure, but it is just the Disney references those people are enjoying, or is it the actual gameplay? People, especially reviewers, shouldn't tolerate a mediocre game just because it's full of great Disney character.

A great presentation can make it easier to see past a game's flaws. I wouldn't want a reviewer to try and guess how he'd feel about a game if he weren't a fan of the subject material. As long as he makes it clear how he feels going into it in order to give the reader context, he should be as honest and true to his feelings as possible.

[Seacor]

I am having a highly enjoyable time playing through this game.  I am not a huge fan of Disney, but I am becoming more of one as I play through this game.  I find all the talk about the camera controls being horrible quite laughable.  I feel sorry for folks that don't try out this game based upon a poor review citing horrible camera controls.  Sometimes I am not able to turn the camera to look at another angle, but it's really NO BIG DEAL AT ALL.  I am 4 hours into the game and it's never been dull for me.  The overall presentation is awesome and animations top notch.  A lot of work went into this game and it shows.

[Sundoulos]

I haven't regretted purchasing this game; I've had a lot of fun with it thus far, and I'm always game for a good platforming/adventure title.  Yes, the camera does seem to be clunky, but there's nothing there that is game-breaking; I really don't get the complaints about the game's controls, either.  I haven't had a problem with them.   

I'd agree with the complaints about the simplistic/repetitive gameplay; it was my primary concern going into the game.  Thus far, I haven't become annoyed with it, but I'm moving through the title at a fairly glacial pace.  I can only play for an hour or two every few days or so.
 
P.S. - I really, really dig the animated cut scenes.  I kind of wish the whole game were sort of in this style.

[broodwars]

Destructoid put up a link today to an interview with Warren Spector regarding Epic Mickey and the response it has gotten in reviews.  In short, Spector comes really close to saying that his game isn't flawed, but that people "just aren't playing it right".  Sadly, that lines up well with his comments on the game pre-release where he came close to blaming gamers for having expectations for his game that he wanted us to have from the marketing and concept art.  I'm sure when I get this game on Christmas I'll enjoy this game as a longtime Disney fan, but the reviews have been way too consistent on the game's problems for everyone to just not "understand" the game.  His comments on the camera are especially baffling, in that he basically says that platforming games need to have a certain camera for platforming and action games need to have a certain camera for combat and traversal.  Apparently, he went with the action-style camera, but complains that people have issues with it when trying to do platforming in a game with apparently quite a bit of it.   

[Mop it up]

Warren Specter reminds me too much of the guy who made Scribblenauts, what was his name? Jeremy Slitzcky or something? He has the same sort of attitude where there is nothing wrong with the games he makes, it's the people playing them. Those comments remind me of how Jeremy said that the people who complained about the control in Scribblenauts are all "core" gamers who are used to games like Mario, and that the "casual" players had no complaints. That would be because the "core" gamers have experience, and they know what a good control scheme is. Also, he said Scribblenauts was "unfortunately a platformer," which it wasn't meant to be. It almost sounds like Warren is saying the same thing; Epic Mickey wasn't supposed to have elements of a platformer, so the camera wasn't designed for it, but unfortunately people will still play it as a platformer and run into problems.

This is unfortunately a forum post.

[bustin98]

Haven't there been numerous creators who say 'you aren't playing it right' when their games are criticized for control issues or something? I think its true though. Some games have a narrow prism through which to look, and some people just want to fall into a comfortable seat with each and every game. There could be alternatives that shake it up, and the critics that don't get it may be the ones who are left irrelevant.

[broodwars]

Haven't there been numerous creators who say 'you aren't playing it right' when their games are criticized for control issues or something? I think its true though. Some games have a narrow prism through which to look, and some people just want to fall into a comfortable seat with each and every game. There could be alternatives that shake it up, and the critics that don't get it may be the ones who are left irrelevant.

"You're playing the game wrong" is never a valid excuse from any game designer, because it is your job to make sure the user understands the way you intend the game to be played.  If the user isn't playing the game the way you intend, it's your fault as the designer.  Maybe if only a couple of reviewers were complaining about it, maybe I could understand Spector's concerns, but this is a near-universal complaint in nearly every review I've seen or read.  It's especially hilarious in this instance, because Spector designed (or gave direction to design) sections of platforming without giving the user the camera they need to get through the sections.
 
And on the subject of game design, from what I've seen in reviews there seems to be a surprising amount of poor design in this game (considering it's helmed by Warren Spector, a legendary game designer), from the camera to needing to retread through those 2D platforming sections every time you need to get from Point A to Point B.

[Retro Deckades]

And on the subject of game design, from what I've seen in reviews there seems to be a surprising amount of poor design in this game (considering it's helmed by Warren Spector, a legendary game designer), from the camera to needing to retread through those 2D platforming sections every time you need to get from Point A to Point B.

I can't help but think that the deadline to deliver this by holiday 2010 had something to do with this (speaking moreso to the camera and unrefined mechanics).

[Stratos]

This was such a big title. It should have been given the time to iron out those types of issues.

[Sundoulos]

It's true.  Spector has stated on more than one occasion that he told Disney that he doesn't do schedules and he doesn't do budgets.  If that were really true, then one would think that they had all the time in the world to iron out the camera issue.  It really just smacks of a design oversight more than anything else. 

I have to wonder if anyone outside of the Junction Point team playtested the game extensively.

[Kytim89]

This game is just one giant love letter to Disney fans and everything that I have seen so far (sans the camera) is good enough to warrant a franchise from this title in my mind. I hope Disney continiues this series on the 3DS and eventually the Wii 2.

[Armak88]

This game feels like Banjo Kazooie or DK64. Somebody on the Player One Podcast said that this game would have been great if it had come out in the early 2000's and I'm inclined to believe that as well. It's a real shame too because so far the production value has been great and there have been several gameplay ideas introduced that seem like they could really be the root of some interesting puzzles but then they don't go anywhere. Instead of having to figure anything out you typically just shoot 6 things with paint or shoot 6 other things with thinner as you platform through a corridor or search an area to open the next door. I also think that the whole paint vs thinner dichotomy is silly, apparently I'm also playing fable or something. I hope the environmental puzzles get better, I'm not too far in the game, but what I've seen so far doesn't make me very optimistic.

[that Baby guy]

This game feels like Banjo Kazooie or DK64. Somebody on the Player One Podcast said that this game would have been great if it had come out in the early 2000's and I'm inclined to believe that as well. It's a real shame too because so far the production value has been great and there have been several gameplay ideas introduced that seem like they could really be the root of some interesting puzzles but then they don't go anywhere. Instead of having to figure anything out you typically just shoot 6 things with paint or shoot 6 other things with thinner as you platform through a corridor or search an area to open the next door. I also think that the whole paint vs thinner dichotomy is silly, apparently I'm also playing fable or something. I hope the environmental puzzles get better, I'm not too far in the game, but what I've seen so far doesn't make me very optimistic.

Not really.  The degree of individuality of the worlds, the exploration aspects, the control, the camera, and the varying playstyles (at least in DK 64) really outshine Epic Mickey.  In Epic Mickey, despite having "open" worlds, nearly every area feels too crowded with only a minimum amount of exploration needed until you find that one little patch that needs to be thinned to find what you're looking for.

The art style resembles Rare on the Nintendo 64, but that's about it.  The stages, worlds, abilities, camera, and really, anything connected to actual gameplay are leagues better in Super Mario 64, the Banjo games, and Donkey Kong 64.

[Stratos]

They should have released Epic Mickey on the N64.

[Kytim89]

They should have released Epic Mickey on the N64.

This is the best Disney game since the time of the SNES era.

[Mop it up]

The legions of Kingdom Hearts fans would like to have a word with you.

[broodwars]

Got the Epic Mickey Collector's Edition for Christmas this morning, and while I haven't had a chance to try the game yet (ugh...family...) I have had a chance to poke around the pack-ins.  The Mickey figure is very nice, though I almost made the mistake of throwing away the paintbrush that goes in his hand.  The decals are smaller than I thought they'd be, and from what I can see the "Bonus disc" just features all the featurettes already up on GameTrailers and some remastered cartoons (I haven't had a chance to view those yet, but supposedly there are some Mickey and Oswald ones in there).  There's some nice stuff in there, but I'm glad I wasn't the one who paid for them because it's really not much of a Collector's Edition.  Looking forward to playing the game.

[Peachylala]

The legions of Kingdom Hearts fans would like to have a word with you.

Sorry, but Capcom's Disney games >>>> Kingdom Hearts.