Topic: That damn black screen

[blkdog7]

You guys gotta fix that crazy 'refresh' screen you guys have built in. Everywhere I go on your site, it goes from your page to a black sponsor screen and back. It switches between your site and that sponsor page over and over and over, it really makes me not want to come here, it's a pain in my arse. I am using Safari on the Mac, I don't feel like opening IE or Mozilla just to come here. And, before you start bashing Safari, remember this is Apple's browser, it will be the standard for the Macintosh, it already has a huge share of Apple users using it, so don't dismiss this.

I also saw another thread posted by a Mozilla user that this was happening too, it's obvious you guys are not using some compliant code to do this annoying function, and it's not just me. Please Fix.

And no, I don't have an odd setting in Safari, I am running the default settings on both of my Macs and it's doing it to both.

[blkdog7]

Oh yeah, another thing. After I hit the button to post my message it sends me to a blank screen that never loads. There is no indication that my post was accepted or nothing, just a blank screen. I am sure you guys can easily check these things out, any web designers worth their salt have a Mac and a PC to test compatibility on site designs.

[Mingesium]

if you check out this thread, Billy said that their trying to fix the problem.

[RickPowers]

The problem is in Safari.  Safari is still a BETA release, and one of the KNOWN ISSUES is problems with Javascript.  We can't fix a problem that isn't ours to fix.  You will simply have to use another browser until Safari has an official release.

The Mozilla problem was similar, a known problem fixed in a later release.  The person was using an outdated Mozilla release.  1.3 was the first release that was relatively bug-free, this person was using 1.0.

[AlbinoPanda]

You know, Rick, a person gets better business if they change for the "customer" instead of the "customer" changing for the business.

If you don't understand, then I'll make it easier.

People will visit PGC more if PGC gets rid of the stupid take-over ads because a lot of people are having problems with them.  PGC will get less visitors if PGC tells the visitors to use a different browser than they prefer because PGC doesn't feel like getting rid of the stupid take-over ads.

[PGC-Agent Cooper]

Yes, but if there's no PGC for people to go to....

Let me make it easier for you....the ADS PAY FOR THE SITE.

We can't help it if there's SOME (not a lot) of people use a BETA browser.  We cater to the majority.  We always have.

[mouse_clicker]

Panda- But it would be a MUCH bigger and MUCH more expensive change for PGC to get rid of all of it's ads than if some guy took a couple minutes to download a different browser or a pop up killer. Besides, a ton of sites have pop ups, so the new browser/programs has uses beyond just making PGC a more enjoyable place to visit.

[blkdog7]

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1.3 was the first release that was relatively bug-free

LOL!! You're telling me that 1.3 was Mozilla's first major bug-free release? Wow, I guess all of those Netscape users all must have been using betas, huh? Not! If the user was using 1.0, that totally blows your beta theory out the window, 1.0 is not a BETA version.

I have been using Safari since it came out and it works 1000% on all sites I go to, except this one.

I have seen your arrogance over and over on this site, instead of trying to fix your bloated code that you probably 'cut and pasted' from some sample code webpage, you tell me to use another browser, this is the answer? That's like me going to the grocery store in my Ford and getting there and they tell me that only Chevy's can park in their lot, guess what? I'm going to the Chevy friendly competitor. Which is all of the fan sites but this one.

And in response to the fact that the ads are paying the bills, ultimately it's the fans that pay the bills. You can't sell ads if there is no audience.

[mouse_clicker]

"That's like me going to the grocery store in my Ford and getting there and they tell me that only Chevy's can park in their lot, guess what? I'm going to the Chevy friendly competitor. "

Except that buying a new car costs thousands of dollars and a painstaking process of loans and paying while downloading a new browser costs *nothing* and takes a few minutes at the most.

Also, you can leave PGC if you want and go to a different, but I doubt you'll find a better fan site. Your laziness and unwillingness to deal with PGC and it's "cut and pasted" code that's causing you SO much trouble brings to mind the question of why you're even dealing with it to tell PGC how crappy they are. If you really hate it so much, then leave already! Otherwise, stop complaining.

"And in response to the fact that the ads are paying the bills, ultimately it's the fans that pay the bills. You can't sell ads if there is no audience."

Well, MOST of the fans have no prbolems with the ads- it's only the really whiny ones that go as far as to insult the website and threaten to leave (like one person's REALLY going to hurt their traffic). Until you've run a site that's as big as PGC as, I don't really think you're in the position to be telling them what to do, especially when what they've been doing has gotten them this far.

[blkdog7]

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Until you've run a site that's as big as PGC as, I don't really think you're in the position to be telling them what to do,

Considering the fact that I design webpages for a living and do run a big fan site (PVDVD) I think I do have some credibility to criticize.

The truth here is that they are using some bullsh*t code that just isn't cool with some browsers, so don't use it. Do you think the advertisers would be happy to now that they are purposely alienating some viewers because of their arrogance and ignorance? Maybe I'll let them now.

I read that thread in regards to that Mozilla person who has having the same exact problem, it was handled all wrong. The webmaster was so rude, obviousley overcompensating for his 9-5 job at Gamestop. That really got me upset and I felt like I had to comment.

To assume that a user is going to conform to your site is just plain ingnorant. It doesn't work like that, that is why there are standards, are you familiar with W3C? Apple is, Safari is compliant to it, Planet GameCube is not. Guess what? IGN, Gamespot, Gamespy and all of the REAL Planet sites are. Those are sites that are run by serious individuals that adhere to standards. If you are going to present yourself as a business with a profit model then you better act like one. All I see is a bunch of kids that can copy and paste code.

[manunited4eva22]

You know if your grammar were any indication of how well you do your job, I would never work for you.

Seriously though, even if you disagree with them show some respect. I have had my disagreements with Billy and Rick, but I try to keep my language under control, because frankly it is not worth it. Just chill out!

[mouse_clicker]

Ok, so you have worked on a major website,  my mistake- I still think you're being a jerk to Billy and Rick. They're some of the hardest working guys i've ever met and they REALLY don't need some punk@$$ reader coming in and telling them exactly how to handle the website they've been running for, what is it, 4 years now? If you really have problems, I'm sorry, but they're YOUR problems. PGC's not going to change just because of a few disgruntled fans who can't handle some ads.

[RickPowers]

OK, let me try to clarify here, despite the hate and discontent ...

First, yes, Mozilla 1.3 was the first major bug-free release.  The 1.0 version was NOT bug-free.  I don't know what else I have to say to clarify that.  If you don't want to beleive me, go to Mozilla.org and read the release notes for yourself.  I never said Mozilla 1.0 was a beta release.  I simply said it wasn't bug-free, which it wasn't.

Second, we answer to our "customers" and change for them everyday.  However, we will not change our site in a way that is harmful to our site in order to cater to a vocal MINORITY.  Mac users are less than five percent of the readers on our site.  Even less are using Safari.  We can't take the monetary hit to make those people happy.  I'm sure that's disappointing, but there is an economic reality to face.  We don't come in here and say "we can't fix this" without having researched it.  But again, the ad code is not ours to modify even if it were a problem we could address.  And getting rid of the ads is not an option.  As for the number of complaints we've received, it is not "a lot".  In fact, I don't even need to take off my shoes to count them, and all but two of those complaints are from people using Safari.  We will NOT make our code browswer specific, ever, and that's what we're being asked to do.  Opera is the MOST standards compliant browser, and it works beautifully, as does IE.  

Third, despite blkdog7's ignorant comments to the contrary, Safari is NOT fully compliant yet.  Again, this is not my opinion, go read the release notes for it.  It's in public beta to find problems just like this.  Quite frankly, if you want to make sure the problem gets fixed, do the right thing and submit a bug report to Apple.  They're the ones that need to hear it.

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have seen your arrogance over and over on this site, instead of trying to fix your bloated code that you probably 'cut and pasted' from some sample code webpage, you tell me to use another browser, this is the answer? That's like me going to the grocery store in my Ford and getting there and they tell me that only Chevy's can park in their lot, guess what? I'm going to the Chevy friendly competitor. Which is all of the fan sites but this one.

Every line of code on PGC is hand written by Justin or I, except for a couple of scripts we use internally (which you as a user would never see), the fourms (which is still significantly hand-tweaked), or advertisement code that is given to us by our advertisers.  Again, we are not at liberty to change code that is not ours.

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I read that thread in regards to that Mozilla person who has having the same exact problem, it was handled all wrong. The webmaster was so rude, obviousley overcompensating for his 9-5 job at Gamestop. That really got me upset and I felt like I had to comment.

Actually, PGC is my full-time job now, thank you very much.  Maybe next time, you should keep your ignorant comments to yourself.  I'm sure your fansite is very popular, but it doesn't mean that you know everything about the people working hard every day on PGC, myself included.

Also, if you are indeed a webmaster of a popular fansite, I'm not sure why this is even an issue.  As the IT Director, I have no less than seven web browsers installed on this machine alone, and probably up to eight more on my other machines.  Any competent webmaster would do the same, so if you are testing your code as you should be, then switching to another browser to view PGC shouldn't be an issue, right?

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It doesn't work like that, that is why there are standards, are you familiar with W3C?  Apple is, Safari is compliant to it, Planet GameCube is not.

Actually, W3C is not a standard.  They are the standards body that takes recommendations for standards, and determines them.  HTML 4.0 is a standard.  Javascript 1.3 is a standard.  W3C is not.  Furthermore, Safari, as I mentioned earlier, is NOT fully Javascript compliant yet, and it's a KNOWN ISSUE with a BETA RELEASE BROWSER.

Lastly, PGC has been validated by the W3C and is fully compliant, even the pages that you claim are broken.  As a webmaster yourself, you should know this.

That said, if you'd like to continue the personal attacks on us, please do it over e-mail or in a private message.  Do it again publically, and you'll have your forum account banned.  

[mouse_clicker]

"Actually, PGC is my full-time job now, thank you very much."

Just asking, but how do you make a living then? I"m quite certain you barely make enough money from the site to run it, so paying staff members is out of the option. Does your wife work?

[RickPowers]

Yes, my wife works, and I have a couple of other sources of income as well.  But PGC is my first priority, and has been for about a year now.

[PIAC]

\o/ thats dedication for you *shakes ricks hand wearing a powerglove* i love.. the power glove

[RickPowers]

Apple released "Public Beta 2" of Safari last week, v73.  If you've had problems with the Interstitial ads with Safari before, please check it with the new version.  Thanks.

[thepoga]

Rick, ur da bomb!

[RickPowers]

Should I take it to mean that it works properly with the new beta?

[mouse_clicker]

"and I have a couple of other sources of income as well."

Ah, right, the crak rin- errr, I mean the "business", gotcha.

[RickPowers]

No, just things that are none of your business, really.  I like to keep my private life private, thanks.  

[mouse_clicker]

I was making a joke, man. I do that time to time, generally with the intentions of making people laugh, not posing a serious question.