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[mouse_clicker]

576

General Gaming / RE:Final Fantasy 12 Website Up And Running

« on: September 29, 2003, 10:19:05 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Truly great games find ways to excel in both gameplay and story

Agreed. Though Miyamoto's games are an exception to this. He just focuses on the gameplay, and I don't think it really bothers anybody.

What I was trying to get at in my last post was that there seems to be a certain group of people (that I'm not saying you're apart of, Mouse) that care almost exclusively about story and presentation in RPGs, and it doesn't matter if the gameplay is just an afterthought.

One game that comes to mind is Phantasy Star II. I picked up the Phantasy Star Collection when it came out, having never played the original PS games. PSII seems to be considered one of the best in the series by most accounts. I hated it. I really, really didn't want to, but the more I played it, the less I liked it. Of the three in the collection, that one clearly has the best story, music, character design, and overall presentation, but I just couldn't stand the way they set up the game. The battle system was alright, but the main problem was the hellishly maze-like dungeons. You trudge through so many long, boring dungeons that have tons of forks in the road, and elevators leading to different floors. On top of that, the number of random battles is fairly high. Getting through one of these areas on your first attempt is nearly impossible. The whole game felt like one big chore. I'll just stop right there.

My point is, I think the only reason PSII is regarded so highly is because of it's presentation. I felt mislead, since I never really saw anything bad ever said about that game. Obviously, I wasn't expecting it to be as good as a modern RPG, but I at least expected it to be tolerable.

Again, I'm sure there are people out there that enjoyed the gameplay, but I'm willing to bet that most people who aren't looking at it through nostalgic eyes would feel the same way I do.

I'm not saying that story has absolutely no relevence whatsoever on the overall experience. I just wish that there was more gameplay in a lot of RPGs. I find myself being drawn more and more to stategy RPGs like Final Fantasy Tactics and Front Mission 3, than traditional RPGs. The way I see it, they provide all the story of an RPG, with awesome gameplay. It's an unbeatable combo... almost. The problem is, they don't really provide the same quality of story as an RPG. In theory, they could, but for some reason most SRPG storylines just aren't very exciting, IMO. I loved the gameplay of FFT, but it had one of the most boring and convoluted storylines I have ever seen in a game. There are so many double-crossings in the end that it's impossible to follow. If they fashioned the story more like a typical Final Fantasy game, and less about all this political intrigue crap, it would've been nearly flawless.

[games]

577

General Gaming / RE:Final Fantasy 12 Website Up And Running

« on: September 28, 2003, 10:13:52 PM »

Fair enough, mouse_clicker. I too hate it when people relentlessly bash something over and over again.

I guess my problem isn't just with the newer Final Fantasy games, it's with a lot of RPGs in general. I'm one of those "crazy people" that thinks that gameplay is the most important aspect of a game, regardless of genre. I'll never understand the mentality of "story first, gameplay second" when it comes to RPGs. Why do RPGs get a pass when it comes to gameplay? It's not like having a great story takes away development time from the gameplay aspect. Take Deus Ex, for example. Great story,  excellent open-ended gameplay, plenty of character interaction, and a lengthy adventure (some would say TOO lengthy). Why can't all RPGs be like that? As far as I'm concerned, story and cinematics are the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

If I want a great story, I'd rather read a book, watch TV, or go see a movie. I play videogames because of the gameplay. If I'm not having fun while playing an RPG, the story sure as hell isn't going to make me feel any better. But hey, that's me.

If you like the gameplay in the newer Final Fantasy games, that's fine. I like a lot of games that other people don't. The subjective quality of gameplay really isn't the point of this post. It's just that I've noticed a lot of people say that gameplay really isn't that important in RPGs. THAT'S what bothers me the most.

Anyway, I think mouse is right about not bashing stuff over and over. This last rant was more about RPGs in general, and not specifically about FF, but I think I'll stop here. I don't really have anything more to say that I haven't said already.

Oh, and I noticed Gup was quick to point out the ONE WORD that I misspelled in my last post. So I guess now the score is:

Gup, the grammer Nazi - 2
Me - Negative 10,032,489,837,458,674,572.0038259125
The entire cast of The Goonies - 10,000,000,000




(Admit it, The Goonies is the greatest movie ever made)







(I spelled grammar wrong on purpose. Sorry to get your hopes up, Gup)

578

General Gaming / RE:Final Fantasy 12 Website Up And Running

« on: September 27, 2003, 09:58:36 PM »

Hoo boy. I haven't posted here in quite a while, but this is a topic that's been bugging me for a while.

Basically, I feel almost exactly like Grey Ninja does. Most people now that are big fans of Final Fantasy are too young to remember Square back in its prime. Final Fantasy 3, Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger. Sigh... It just bothers me when teenagers think that the current Final Fantasies are the end all be all experience. Now, I don't think that all of Square has gone to crap. I'm currently 55 hours into FFTA. I loved the original FFT. One game that I'm sure none of you have ever played is Front Mission 3. It's a shame too, because I like it even better than the other two. But when it comes to the recent Final Fantasies:

FF7 - As far as I'm concerned, this is the most overrated game of all time. It was by no means an awful game, it just wasn't deserving of even one tenth the amount of hype it deserved. I can't believe I nearly sold my N64 to buy this, but my brother ended up buying a PSX with his own money. Again, not a bad game, just not a great game. Maybe my opinion of it would be higher if FF3 hadn't set the bar so high. Oh, and I didn't cry when Aeris died. Maybe because stupid EGM likes to print major game spoilers right when a game comes out, so it was no surprise.

Anyway, it seems pretty obvious to me why this game did so extremely well. Graphics. Simple as that. Gup, you honestly don't think it had anything to do with the massive ad campaign in which only FMV was shown? I bet the average person who rushed out and bought it barely even knew what genre the game was in.

FF8 - Ugh. I don't like this. Do I actually have to explain? Do I have to? I'm just so surprised how many people think this is still even an above average game, when it just seems to be so objectively bad. The gameplay is just so terribly flawed that I can't believe people actually got SOME enjoyment out of it. I dunno. It's almost like saying you loved Superman 64. Almost. Where was the fun? I honestly don't remember having any fun playing this game. First, they messed up the magic system. Drawing spells from enemies is tedious and requires no skill or strategy, so what's the point? The weapons upgrade system was flawed too. You needed certain items to upgrade them, but finding the right items from the right enemies just didn't happen enough. By the end of the 3rd disc, most of my party still had their original weapons.

That leads into my next complaint. Since your weapons are so ineffective, that forces you to use the stupid summons. All. The. Time. And you can't skip them. They're like 30+ seconds long. Awful. Just awful. For some reason, they made even the most mundane enemy have a ridiculous amount of HP, so fighting even the simplest battles lasted several minutes. This once again leads into another complaint. There were too many random battles. And not just by a little bit. A lot. Getting into a fight after taking 1-4 steps is the norm and not the exception. Again, not fun.

To top it off they had the incredibly flawed junction system. As far as I'm concerned, this was a sign of sheer laziness. In case you didn't notice, there was no armor, hats, accessories, or any of that in FF8. Rather than have to make up all that stuff, they threw together the half-assed junction system to determine your enhancements.

The only reason I wrote such a long rant on FF8 was just to show a list of legitamite complaints about this game. I have played it, and played it enough to come up with a rather sizable and detailed list of complaints. If you disagree, fine, just don't think that I'm some rabid fanboy that didn't give the game a chance. I did. I wanted to like this. It's just impossible for me to like something that isn't just some game that fell below expectations, but something that I feel was one of the worst gaming experiences ever.

I have more to say about this, but for now I just want to get the point across that some of us DO have legitamite complaints about the series. Besides, didn't the guys at Brownie Brown leave Square because they "Didn't like the direction the company was going in"? Hardly just a bunch of Nintendo fanboys.