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Messages - Order.RSS

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Can't wait to see Jamie get owned by those nugget desiring third graders all over again.



Dang you weren't kidding about committing to the bit!

If RSS had either sent the plan to go after ThePerm just a few minutes earlier, or I waited a few minutes before playing Xenoblade 2, we probably would have won since I told him I leaning toward Insanolord more likely to be a goon then Wah, so Insanolord would have been eliminated the next day.

Or if I had listened to Nickmitch it could've swung differently, too. Would have put 3 votes on Insano, which would also prove his ThePerm=Godfather theory after Perm joined us on Wah.

But the reality is us two were not sure 100% convinced of anyone.
- Wah had 2 consistent votes, but 1 looked fishy, and he thought I was Mafia with Insano.
- Luigi Dude had the Day 2 Crimm tell so seemed Townie but  also remained distant and appeared uninterested in partnering earlier.
- Insano had 2 self-defence votes, which looked about on par with Wah's record.
- ThePerm looked like the Godfather, but moved with us on Wah and probably would have on Insano too to call our bluff.

It wasn't a guarantee we could rally 3 votes against Perm, so we hoped to pit Insano and Wah against each other and use them as 3rd vote. I got it wrong out of those two, and we reached out too late to L.D. to find our 3rd Perm vote.

If we had won, it would've been very clutch and partially relied on getting lucky. We were simply too late and had too many unknowns.
Mafia side deserved the win imo.

Sorry if collage is the wrong word. I'm not well-versed in art but I thought assembling of disparate elements into a new cohesive whole artwork was called a collage.

Was going for a compliment there. I've missed celebrating Halloween the past 2 years, but between this and the Luigi's Mansion game earlier thr vibes have been there at least.

Congrats to ThePerm & Insano! After the MASB fiasco I remarked to someone it felt more like we were losing to ourselves than the Mafia, but that'd be selling your efforts short.

Thanks to Khush for hosting again. Hope one day you get to play again. I'd probably be down to host another time after Bshy.

Nickmitch did spot ThePerm's deception, so we tried to engineer a situation where we could pivot to anyone with a last-second rug-pull.
Unfortunately Luigi Dude never put a vote down on ThePerm to give us the 3 votes required, and we weren't sure enough to count on either Wah or Insano.
Nickmitch suggested we switch our votes to Insano, but by the time I was convinced the 90 minutes had elapsed and we weren't gonna tamper with the votes just because Khush wasn't around to call it yet.

The lesson I should probably learn: stop getting tricked by Mafia members so easily. Kudos to Perm for a mostly naturally chatty voice throughout.

The lesson I will learn instead: vote out inactive players early. MASB, Luigi Dude, and Wah (all Townies!!!) were my primary suspects because they had no voting record.
If someone never votes, then suddenly does, and things go poorly (like MASB on Bungle) it looks like a Mafia bandwagoning.
The lack of data means we're left to guess at people's motivations, and in Mafia it's easier to read inaction as hostile -- because it implies being fine with the current state of affairs, which in these games is almost invariably the Townies getting hammered early on.
We can't be going into the final Day not knowing 4/6 identities. At that point we might as well throw a dart or take a gamble on the randomizer.

Not trying to blame others when I made 4(!) consecutive errors which lost us the game. I get it, everyone is swamped with work/family/other responsibilities. I missed the first Day too and didn't have time to think of a new gimmick/avatar/etc. as usual either.

But I do feel I've never played a more transparently obvious Townie before, so for the feedback to still be mostly deafening silence means I'll need to rethink how I approsch future games.

Crimm's photo took some detective work. He never got back to me in time. Reverse image search didn't work. So I enlarged the photo and then tried reverse image search and got a hit that time.

Perhaps you already tried it, but I find TinEye search sometimes is a decent supplement to google reverse image when looking for larger images based on a cropped subsection.
Great collage btw!

Ok since nobody is voting I'll do it as promised. Insanolord is the only player who addressed some of my concerns, and the other suspects remained either quiet or gave reasons which don't really indicate a desire to help out the team.

Vote Wah

On voting record most of us don't look great.
- ThePerm has more misses than hits
- mine has yesterday's collossal failure and my Crimm vote was mostly self-defence & following Bshy.
- Luigi Dude has no record at all
- Wah has just one vote and even that one feels fishy


Obviously I also lean Wah. For L.D. i can think of a very flimsy defense as written in the essay above, but that's all i can think of with him.

That one shred of potential explanation is why I have him listed as suspicious rather than you, since you have more votes to work with (1 against Bungle and the MASB vote I asked you to make).

I don't like falling into the trap of suspecting spotty records over non-existent ones, because it rewards non-participation in a game where Townies communicate their role through building a sequence of votes.

That's a fair response, yeah.
Like I wrote in the first sentence in that section, your willingness to go along on the vote would be an immediate Townie confirmation imo, had the outcome been different.
Likewise on the Bungle vote, at least 2 out of 4 votes on him were Townies. No reason it couldn't be 3, or even all 4 with our luck.

So let's assume you are a Townie, and I'm wrong on you, just like with MASB. What's your read on Wah and Luigi Dude?

Feel like I owe MASB, and the group for that matter, a big apology. I even went for a cocky one-liner along with the backstab. That's not generally how I like to carry myself in the first place, but I thought it was justified since I felt so sure he was Mafia.
In this post I will outline A.) why I voted on MASB, B.) my thoughts on the remaining players, and C.) a possible way forward.

A. Why I voted MASB
1. No votes twice in a row, then suddenly he and Lolmonade were almost simultaneously voting for MK Bungle, who I already knew was Detective.

2. As MASB says here, he was aiming for a tie. That's a terrible idea imo: this game's rules mean a tie results in a random player dying, or nobody at all.
  • At the time that meant chances of a Mafia Goon going out were 3/12
  • A Townie going out is 8/12 (a.k.a. 2/3 - 66%)
  • A 1/12 shot of nobody going out, meaning we don't see any useful results.
Townies rely on voting records to spot patterns. These are terrible odds: 9/12 possibilities (that's 75% of possible outcomes if the tie held) favoured the Mafia's agenda. A tie only helps Townies early-to-mid Day phase, to see who's covering for who.

3. His suspects were ThePerm, and NWR_Insanolord. He leaned towards ThePerm. As a test, I feed him the clearly bogus theory he quotes here. It's bogus, because there's no reason to assume everyone who voted against MK Bungle is automatically Mafia. At least 2 to 3 were not: himself and Lolmonade were already proven Townies, and ThePerm retracted his vote to reduce the votes against Bungle from a majority to a tie. (Jury's still out on Insanolord.)
However, MASB appeared to run with this theory unquestioned and never called my obvious bullshit. This made me think he was Mafia, trying to lead me (a seemingly gullible Townie) to vote for ThePerm. At this point I begin trying to mobilize votes against MASB, without letting him on I will betray him.

4. I pretend to offer to vote ThePerm alongside him, provided he votes first. Then all of a sudden he moves the goalposts and wants a 3rd person to join before voting, so I reach out to get someone to pretend along with me. Before that can happen, suddenly MASB is out here voting for Insanolord, another swerve which I interpreted as shady. At this point I felt confirmed in all the red flags I thought I was seeing.

5. There were enough votes on MASB already. The smart play would have been to wait and see if any defenders came out the woodwork, rather than close the Day early. However, I wanted to demonstrate I wasn't just trying to get others to do my bidding, and would walk the talk. Plus, it would've been cool to vote out a Mafia member on a jokey one-liner.

B. Thoughts on the remaining field
  • Luigi Dude: deafening silence at zero votes in 4 days, did collect a few items the first two days which know the Mafia like to do (Crimm, Stevey). I reached out once and got a thoroughly unhelpful response. Only reason I haven't voted for him yet: on Day 2 he is tied in votes with Crimm. Then Crimm pushes him to a 3-2 disadvantage, meaning if he's Mafia, his fellow Goon tried to kill him. It went back to a tie because TopHatAnt (confirmed Townie Vigilante) unVoted Luigi Dude. See here for proof. Suspicious, but might be Townie.
  • Nickmitch: was Bungle's 2nd investigation and came back Townie. Voted for Stevey, and had similar reasoning to myself on the MASB vote. I approached him pretending to be the Detective and didn't get killed for it. On the off-chance he's the Godfather in deep cover, he did a fantastic job and deserves to swindle us for the win. Most likely Townie.
  • NWR_Insanolord: voted against Bungle, and joined the MASB vote at my request. Had MASB been Mafia, that would have cemented him as Townie, as it would have pushed MASB past the 2-vote threshold the Mafia can't counter without outside help. With MASB turning out Townie, it suddenly looks like a Mafia bandwagon vote. I can think of no excuses for him to be Townie at this point, unlike the Luigi Dude Day 2 shenanigans. Have asked him point-blank why I shouldn't think he's Mafia and got no reply, despite him being online at the time. At this point I think the absence story is a ruse. Prime Mafia suspect.
  • Order.RSS: Confirmed Townie by Bungle's 1st investigation (easy to say about myself, I know). Spotty presence early on so I didn't have time to send in a hit if I had been Godfather. Prior to the MASB fiasco my voting track record was very good: Crimm and Stevey back-to-back, and schemed with TopHatAnt to attack Stevey that Night. Only collected 1 item, so didn't pursue Jamie like Crimm and Stevey did. I tried to save Bungle by messaging ThePerm to remove his vote. Townie.
  • ThePerm: Confirmed Townie by Bungle's 3rd investigation. Prior to that I already thought he played as Townie. Not a fantastic voting track record, but did retract his vote on Bungle when I asked him. Also, I approached him pretending to be the Detective and didn't get killed. Townie.
  • Wah: Just 1 vote and 1 item in 4 days. But his vote feels fishy: he says he's throwing it to another tie by voting Insanolord, but if you look through the thread it appears to me the vote was 3 for Bungle, 3 for Stevey, 1 for Insanolord at the time. Look at the timestamp on ThePerm's retracted MK Bungle vote edit: the edit comes after Wah's vote, meaning Wah pushed it to 3-3-2, not a three-way tie. ThePerm's post about the retraction is also after Wah's vote. Let's, for the sake of argument, say the timestamps (which work fine for me) are wrong and bugged, like Crimm (another Mafia!) asserts here on Day 2... Then still the very next post is Insanolord an hour later against Bungle, with Stevey waiting in the wings to finish the job. Prime Mafia suspect.

Following yesterday's debacle I would understand if nobody trusted me anymore. I feel responsible for leading everyone to follow my overconfident conclusion, and doing so in a backhanded way to MASB.
At this point I feel quite confident that Insanolord and Wah are Mafia, but I can't completely rule out Luigi Dude, who continues his streak of funny roleplay, but being unhelpful in helping alleviate suspicion of him, as demonstrated in the post above.

I don't know if it's a good idea for me to take point on a vote or not. Doing so may seem suspicious, but not doing so will do, too. If nobody votes soon I will open the voting on one of these two candidates.

To paraphrase what Mop it up said to me (when I was trying to contact ThePerm on Discord to see how sure he was about his detective info), when in doubt, go for Chaos.

Such sage advice from a seasoned Mafia veteran, and yet you put your trust in Order.


Do you still take Joja Credit? I have lots of points saved up, but their store no longer accepts them since they pivoted to Joja-Coins on the blockchain.

NWR Mafia Games / Re: Joja Mart is closed forever! (The Dead/RP Thread)
« on: November 22, 2021, 06:39:28 PM »
I'd like to have the record show that Pokepal and I both got played like fiddles and each of us invited separate moles into that Townie Alliance lol. Although I think most of it was my fault, so I at least want partial credit for inadvertently dooming the previous Haunted Town Mansion!!  >:( ;) :vedetta:

That said, there's no way all the previous non-Townies would be non-Townies again, right? ....Right?

Hang on a minute...

Think I'm mostly caught up, admittedly skimmed some of the more granular details, but I did catch Pokepal trying to make Lettuce Cats lol.

This is admittedly quite flimsy reasoning for joining a bandwagon, but this post from yesterday feels eerily prophetic in retrospect. Almost like the author had a hunch of what was coming?
(That said, I see no obvious link between Jamie/BeautifulShy's final message mentioning Blue, Green, Red, Red, and the items Stevey picked, but do get the impression BShy knew the jig was up.)

It does feel like collecting a lot of items somewhat correlates with being a non-townie faction: both BeautifulShy (Jamie) and Crimm (Mafia) collected a lot of them. This has me suspicious of a few players, again including Stevey, who collected at least 7 of them, and keeps voting for people who die the same night by the Mafia's hand.

So I Vote Stevey for now.

Sorry for being AWOL, looks like I missed a lot. Gotta save my hide so i vote Crimm for now. Open to other suggestions though.

Khush, for my first season i pick the anemone please.

General Gaming / Re: Shocktober 2021: Just in time for Metroid Dread.
« on: November 01, 2021, 06:48:04 PM »
Also finished Dread last week, and I think I gotta echo most people's sentiments: it's really good. Movement feels great, the bosses were challenging but rewarding to beat, the ending is hype, and it seems to offer plenty of replay options for speedrunners/completionists.

I hope Mercury Steam have another one of these in the tank in 3-5 years. I'd like to see them get more experimental - they obviously have the formula down at this point, so I'd like to see them go wild with it. The EMMI never felt very threatening since they are contained to little zones for example, and the game felt too respectful of its players to pull a Fusion and burst through a Save Room door.
You could do all sorts of things, like giving players misleading maps, or destroying their recharge stations. Dread pulls it punches a lot outside of the bosses, which is fine, but I think they could really increase the tension a lot if they wanted to without just further upping the difficulty.

Great to see the highly acclaimed Harvest Moon: One World getting a sequel already. In!

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Metroid Dread
« on: October 18, 2021, 06:26:01 PM »
Liking Dread a lot so far, the movement feels really great. Controls to execute some of those moves can be a tad clumsy (we really out here pressing 3 buttons + aiming just to use the grapple beam?), and I think it gets a bit wordy in places to really hammer the objectives home.

It does repeat the Samus Returns thing where bosses get recycled (the brains, EMMIs), but I've also had a few good unique fights already.

Adam as a computer I'm fine with for now.

Congratulations to the Mafia players, and Crimm for getting 2nd place.

We got absolutely demolished, I don't remember seeing a wipe-out this bad in a whiiiiile. I'll take most of the blame for the loss too, since my "strategy" was just to reach to like half the field and weed out the moles from there. Which backfired spectacularly from the jump since I think I talked to Mop first lol.

I felt pretty good on Day 1 and 2, going in recklessly and reaching out to lots of players, and immediately finding Pokepal. Very quickly though the acceleration halted and I had a half-dozen separate side-conversations to juggle while swamped at work.

It's worth mentioning just how badly I got clowned on, check this out: the players I talked to most, besides Pokepal were... Mop It Up, Tophat, Bungle, and Crimm. The Townie Alliance was literally Oops, All Mafia.
It was clever to have Bungle pose as the Vigilante and pretend to distrust Mop, since they probably knew via TopHat how I distrusted Mop.

Looking forward to a rematch soon, maybe we'll do better with a Weenie Hut Jr. ruleset lol.

Question for the Mafia how soon did you know that lolmonade was the doctor and how did you come across that info?

I fear I probably told Bungle.

NWR Mafia Games / Re: Professor E. Gadd's Vault (The Dead Thread)
« on: October 16, 2021, 08:19:07 PM »
...LooooOOOOOOooooks like this'll be my new haunt from now on...

~ WhhhoooOOOOoooopssss, I meant to say boooOOOOooo, I'm a ghoooOOOooost ~

Don't love the unnecessary hostility earlier on, even if in context of a game on backstabbing. I like to think we're all here to have fun first, let's not sacrifice that over the 86th win in a long-running game.

On to the game:

1. To the Doctor: while I appreciate the attempts to save victims from the Townie vote, please do note it's our only method to speed up a literal process of elimination. Obviously your previous attempted save (MASB) turned out to be a good idea, but now we're still no closer to knowing Lolmonade's identity. People vote on players who they can't reliably clock as Townies. Saving them from the Vote denies us all the knowledge the Mafia already has - whether someone being Voted on is Mafia or not. Please only save someone from a vote if you are confident they are a townie.
We will know by end of day whether Pokepal is legit the Vote Changer (which also makes voting him out now useless), so if the vote changes to something Pokepal announces prior, the Doctor should contact him immediately the moment the Day ends.

2. To Pokepal - if you are the Vote Changer, make sure to spend all your stacked up Vote Changes today. This way, if the Killer takes you out for your Water Element Medal, they will not inherit all your stacked extra Votes.

3. Your secret Townie Role  identity is already exposed.
Let's be frank, things look pretty dire for us. There are 8 townies left (4 roles, 4 normies), versus 4 mafia, and an ever-stronger Killer.

The Killer has a nightly Detective, so knows at least 3 identities by now (2 Nights + 1 inherited from Insanolord). I assume they either found uninteresting targets and picked random other victims (all the Killer's targets have been normal townies since acquiring the power), or are purposely keeping someone they found alive. Again, I will repeat my theory: the Killer might know and/or be influencing the Doctor and wants to keep the Doc around until the Mafia threat is gone.

The Mafia meanwhile have only 9 targets left, and know at least 2 of them because of the presumed earlier Recon.
Collectively, between 2 and 5 secret identities may already be known by players with Killing powers. There's little point left in hiding at this point; and I know we've got some liars around, since there's more people claiming to be Normal Townies than we have left. We need to start moving as a unit and push players out.

4. Remember the Win Conditions
Neither the Mafia nor the Killer need all of us dead. They need the Dark Moon item. The Killers wins with it in 1 cycle, the Mafia need it and only to equal our numbers.

We can feasibly lose today: if we vote out a Townie, the Killer and Mafia take out two others, and the Vigilante gets it wrong too. But we've likely got at least 2 Days left, and successful hits now might buy us a third. Gamers rise up!!!1!

I'll start by going for a tie and forcing the Tiebreaker out of their shell: vote Stevey.

It's difficult to get a read on anything at all this game, sooooOOOOooo many contingencies.

Did the Killer send in their actions before the Day ended, or did they knoooOOOOooow MASB would be protected by the Doctor? If soooOOOOoooo I woooOOOOOoooouuuuld ask the Doctor to reconsider their soooOOOOooocial circle. Your friends may be a bad influence!

For now I'm sticking with my admittedly shakey argument from yesterday to vote Lolmonade again. If things go wroooOOOOooong I'll just blame the bandwagoooOOOoooonnnn!!!

Bummer, I like how MASB always puuuUUUuuuts in efforts to create a character.

MASB had the Ice Elemental Medal adding that to Luigi's arsenal.

Finally reading up on the ruuuUUUuuules and this stood out to meeeEEEeeeheeEEeeheeEEEeee

Quote from: Khushrenada
Ice Elemental Medal - With this ability, a killer can nullify someone's role for the day. The player who is targeted will be informed that they've been "frozen" and cannot perform their action that day. However, this player can still vote in the day thread. It is only their role ability that has been frozen. If the current Godfather is frozen then they cannot send out the squad on a recon mission nor make a hit.


VooOOoote LooOOoolmonaaaaade for cryptically going for an inactive player instead of an active threat. Shyguy can't be LuuuuUUUUuuuiiiiiigi/Mafia Leader since he hasn't been here since Day oooOOOOoooneee.

Yesterday, I brought up the subject of what to do about improperly edited vote changes. I proposed a solution about it but saw absolutely no response on it. So, here it is again.

Like most of the poll voters, this is a gooOOood idea in my booOOook. A new vote clearly signals the old one is vooOOooid. StrikthrooOOoouuughs, edits, and/or UnVotes help and remain appreciated!

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