Messages

26

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 05, 2012, 05:54:01 AM »

Even though the Wii U preserves compatibility with the Wiimote, it seems that the Wiimote is being treated as a secondary control scheme. You can take this as a tacit admission by Nintendo that they were wrong about the whole Wiimote thing.

A tacit admission? That's one hell of an assumption. You're assuming Nintendo thought "oh we were wrong about the Wiimote but we'll let people use it as a secondary control scheme anyway" which doesn't really make sense.

How else could you interpret it? They marketed the Wiimote as the future of gaming. The fact it is now only a secondary control option proves they were wrong. The reason it is preserved as a secondary control scheme is mainly because that's the only way they can maintain backwards compatibility with Wii software. If it weren't for that they might have just scrapped it entirely.

As a matter of fact, they may eventually do just that at some point in the future just like how they ultimately stripped out Gamecube ports from the Wii.

27

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 05, 2012, 04:44:49 AM »

If the PS4 and 720 ape the WiiU and implement touchscreens in their remotes, would you call their gamepads gimics?

When Nintendo introduced the D-Pad for the first time, people who were used to Joysticks might have thought of that as a gimmick at the time, but since its introduction everyone now uses it and it is an industry standard. The same goes for shoulder buttons, analog sticks, and a bunch of other things. Perhaps the touchscreen concept will turn out that way as well. If everyone copies it and every future console continues to use it then it would no longer be just a gimmick but an industry standard.

But before that can happen the concept has to be proven. There has to be games that use it which are clearly better off because of it. If that doesn't happen then it will just be a hyped up fad for a shortwhile, and then be forgotten. There is a reason why the PS Move flopped and why Nintendo themselves are distancing themselves from motion controls with the Wii U. Waggle controls sounded good in theory, but spending tens of hours flailing your arms around in a game where a simple button press would have sufficed people learned it wasn't really all it was cracked up to be. This is why waggle controls were a gimick and continue to be a gimmick to this day. They haven't caught on as an industry standard which can replace a traditional controller. Even Nintendo agrees with this, because look how they are coming out with a traditional controller which is basically a clone of the xbox 360 controller.

Even though the Wii U preserves compatibility with the Wiimote, it seems that the Wiimote is being treated as a secondary control scheme. You can take this as a tacit admission by Nintendo that they were wrong about the whole Wiimote thing. Its not the future of gaming that they had trumpeted it as, so they've quietly swept it under the rug and went back to the drawing board. A traditional controller with a touchscreen is what they've come up with. Rather than try and reinvent the wheel like they did with the Wiimote, they decided to go back to the old traditional wheel and slap a touchscreen onto it. This is something that they can't really screw up. Again, my only concern with the whole thing is the cost. I'm fine with it in every other respect.

28

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 05, 2012, 02:18:43 AM »

Well, I already wrote this whole thing so I'm posting it. Honestly, I don't think Chozo is trolling and he's not breaking any rules. I enjoy the discussion, but I've tried lately to step away before I start feeling the need to throw the f-word around. He's entitled to his opinion which I won't debate. I will inquire about his reasoning for the sake of discussion

Thank you.

And as I said, if its because of my user title thing don't blame me for that. I think its Uncle Bob who did that to me, but I'm not sure. There's nothing I can do about it, so I kinda decided to embrace it. If it were removed from my title I would also remove it from my signature. The reason its in my signature is my way of resisting this injustice.

You're awfully judgmental of these so-called casual suckers. Didn't they buy something they wanted just like you and me?

If they are satisfied with it then they weren't suckers by buying it, but every single person I know who owns a Wii isn't even playing it. Nowadays people use it for Netflix or the virtual console if they even use it at all. I think looking back now most people would feel that the hype they felt for the Wii in 2006-2007 was unjustified. The Wii seemed like a really awesome thing back then and everyone wanted to own it, but after playing Wii Sports for 15 minutes the enthusiasm of most people began to fizzle out. The awesome swordfighting games we thought were going to happen never showed up, except for Zelda and Red Steel. It was a disappointment.

The Wii U has a disadvantage because people aren't going to have the same level of hype for it, because they remember how the Wii turned out and will be more reluctant to buy into the whole gimmick of it. Not to mention that the touchscreen controller concept isn't really quite as revolutionary as motion controls were. Touchscreen gaming has been around for 8 years now with the DS and more recently with the uDraw tablet thing. So when people look at this they might have an attitude of "been there, done that".

Also, keep in mind that the uDraw which the Wii U gamepad was inspired by was a commercial failure which cost THQ a huge amount of money because people wouldn't buy it. This doesn't bode well for the success of the Wii U's similar concept.

I love how you're so hung up on the "gimmicky" controller when it's just a regular controller with a screen on it. Unlike the Wii Remote, it's not limiting in the least. In fact, it offers MORE options. Nintendo took a traditional controller and added to it and yet it's for casual gamers somehow. I don't understand your reasoning whatsoever.

Again, I'm fine with the gimmicks of the controller. As you said if developers don't want to use them they don't have to. Its not a big deal to me. The only issue I have is the cost of it, and how it detracts from the console itself. I think either the cost of the console went up or the specs were brought down in order to accomodate the controller. So gamers are paying for that even if they have zero interest in it.

I do agree that as a gimmick it is benign and not going to be as annoying as waggle was. But again its just the cost that bothers me. Other than that I'm totally fine with it. I would just have rather Nintendo had invested that same amount of money into making the console itself more powerful.

You're also hung up on the "obsolete" hardware despite the fact that you've proven to know nothing about how hardware works. I can't even count how many times you've trashed the CPU based on clock speed of all things, as if it's that simple (hint: it's not). Home consoles will always be outclassed by PCs. That doesn't render home consoles obsolete. It's not the hardware itself; it's what developers can do with it. The Wii U is a more modern design. You insist that Nintendo "cheaped out." That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that they have valued optimization and efficiency for over 10 years now. The Xbox didn't run circles around Gamecube despite having better numbers on paper. We're simply not going to see the same drastic jump from standard definition to high definition ever again so if you're expecting a repeat of the Wii vs. PS3/360 in terms of graphics, you're wasting your time. The sad truth is that it's been 6-7 years and current generation games are still really, really expensive to produce. And you want even more powerful hardware that demands higher budgets and longer development cycles? How much better will they even look? Good luck with that.

I don't claim to be an expert on CPUs and stuff, but I would assume these developers know their stuff. Also, its not just a matter of the clock speed. Megabyte pointed out how the CPU has only a few threads (whatever that means). So its not just clock speed where the CPU is inferior, but also threads. What that means I don't really know, but I trust Megabyte knows what he is talking about because he seems knowledgeable about that kind of stuff.

29

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 05, 2012, 01:58:16 AM »

And why pick on just me? Ian Sane and Broodwars and perhaps others have expressed similar opinions. So why am I the one getting all the heat?

If its because of my user title, that's not really my fault. Yes, I said that, but it doesn't need to be there as a constant reminder. If I could remove that I would, but I can't. It pisses people off when they see it every time I post, but its not my fault.

30

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 05, 2012, 01:48:26 AM »

Chozo, please stop the crap and calling the Wii U GamePad a "gimmick". It's a standard controller that just has a touchscreen in it. Developers can even ignore the screen and treat it the same as any other controller.

I know that. But that doesn't change the fact it really is a gimmick. Do you know what the definition of gimmick is? This fits the definition. Keep in mind a gimmick is not necessarily a bad thing. What is a bad thing, however, is how expensive it is.

I already explained this anyway just a few posts back. Why are you ignoring those posts like they didn't even happen?

The "Wii" brand name is not shitty.

Yes it is. It is shitty both because the name is stupid, and also because it is associated with dust collecting casual waggleware. So there's actually two reasons why its shitty.

If you disagree and think the Wii brand is awesome, that's fine. That's your opinion. But its not the opinion of the majority of core gamers. My point is simply that it makes winning over core gamers an uphill battle for Nintendo. As I said, its a battle they can still win, but they are on thin ice already.

Guys Chozo has been doing this pretty much for several months and I think he is just doing it for attention so I think it would best to just ignore him or report him and move on.

Report me for what exactly? For telling it like it is?

31

General Chat / Re: Wrestling discussion

« on: October 05, 2012, 12:30:59 AM »

http://gawker.com/5948770/even-for-a-minute-watching-hulk-hogan-have-sex-in-a-canopy-bed-is-not-safe-for-work-but-watch-it-anyway

Apparently there is a Hulk Hogan sex tape.

32

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 05, 2012, 12:20:47 AM »

Fortune favors the bold and they chose to forge ahead with the GamePad.

Yes, but taking the easy road of conservative hardware and preying on casual suckers with a gimmick is hardly a bold move. It was a move that brought Nintendo great fortune with the Wii, but it isn't guaranteed it will work just as well this time around. It may, or it may not. The market is different now then it was 6 years ago. The people who bought into the Wii back then have now moved on to iPhones and Androids. Those who remain and still give a crap about console gaming are the Core gamers who Nintendo turned their back on these last several years.

In order for the Wii U to succeed Nintendo must win Core gamers back, but sticking with the shitty Wii brand name and using cheaped out obsolete hardware and a gimmicky controller already has the console on thin ice right from the start. Core gamers haven't forgotten how the Wii turned out, so they will be reluctant to give its successor a chance. By sticking with the same shitty name, weak hardware, and gimmicky controls they have made winning over the core market an uphill battle. Its a battle they can still win, but like I said they needlessly put the console on thin ice and made it harder to win gamers over than it needed to be. What the console lacks in hardware capability it absolutely MUST make up for that with software. There is no room for errors this time around. If third parties don't embrace it and there are lengthy game droughts the Wii U is toast. History. Done. Game over.

33

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 04, 2012, 06:16:37 PM »

What it costs Nintendo to manufacture and what they're going to charge for it at retail are two very different things; controllers are some of the highest markup in the business. The former is much more relevant to the discussion we were having.

But if they are selling the controller at retail for $170 then why couldn't it cost $100 (or even more than that) for them to manufacture it? That would still be $70 markup.

Do you really think it only costs them $50 to manufacture the controller and then they are selling it for $120 profit? I don't think even Nintendo would be quite that excessive.

And you're just ignoring all the developers who have said it's better hardware than either of them? I've pretty sure there have been significantly more than two people who've said that.

I've seen developers praise the Wii U's controller and the Wii U's graphical capabilities, but I can't think of even a single time where a developer outright praised the CPU in particular. The consensus seems to be that the CPU is "good enough" at best. No one is saying "Wow! This CPU is lightyears ahead of its time!". Developers can't seem to agree on whether its better or worse than the PS360's CPUs, but the problem is the PS360 isn't going to be the Wii U's competition, so marginally beating them out is only a Phyrric victory. Its like showing up at a party with the best costume just before the party ends, and then you're standing there by yourself looking like an idiot because everyone else is leaving even though you have only just arrived.

34

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 04, 2012, 06:08:51 PM »

Assumptions Made in that list:
CPU Not Modern
Competition will have 4-8gb of Ram
MSRP was Pre-Determined

Can you source those 3?

1) A developer for Dynasty Warriors said it was a slower CPU than that of the PS360. Also, even long before that I remember reading something another developer said about the Wii U's CPU being inferior to that of existing consoles. Developers wouldn't be saying this if there wasn't at least some kernel of truth to it. Its not just one developer which is saying this either. Its happened at least twice.

2) A rumor was posted recently that the Xbox420 Devkit has 12gb of RAM. The Devkit is always going to have more RAM than the final consumer end console, but there is no reason to have 12gb of RAM in the Devkit if your console is going to have only 2gb RAM in the finalized version. So based on that rumor I would expect the final console to release with a minimum of 4gb and a maximum of 8gb of RAM. As for the PS4, I have no idea. That one could be more, less, or exactly the same.

3) I think its a safe to assume that every hardware manufacturer has a target MSRP in mind when they are designing any product. In order to prove that I would have to know the full details of Nintendo's inner workings and their design process, and I don't, but why would anyone go about designing in a haphazard wanton way with no goals or targets? I don't think someone who has been in the business as long as Nintendo has would be stupid enough to be willy nilly in their hardware design. Nintendo had a targeted MSRP in mind. I can't prove that, but I would seriously bet money on that.

35

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 04, 2012, 05:34:47 PM »

The GamePad had no major effect on the hardware besides making sure it functioned as intended.

Why do you say that? I think it did have an effect on the hardware because when Nintendo was designing the console they had a target MSRP in mind and so when they were working on the specs of the console they were trying to meet this target. I'm guessing $299.99 was their target, which they managed to meet with the basic model. Now obviously Nintendo likes to profit off every hardware unit sold, so we can expect perhaps $20-$50 of that $300 is pure profit for Nintendo, and then you have a controller which costs how much? $100? So that leaves a budget of only about $150 for the console itself.

So instead of using an internal hard drive, Nintendo went with 8gb flash, and instead of using a modern CPU they went with a low end obsolete chip instead. And instead of going with 4-8gb of RAM like the competition is going to, Nintendo used only 2gb of RAM. All of these cuts were made and these cuts were necessary in order to keep manufacturing costs below that $150 target level. If you took the $100 controller out of the picture then Nintendo could have a budget of $250 for the console and the specs could have been a lot heftier while still meeting that $300 MSRP.

Without it, Nintendo would have launched with basically the same specs.

But not at the same MSRP. Maybe you are right that without the expensive controller Nintendo would have skimped on the console specs exactly the same as they did, but in that case they wouldn't need to be selling it at $300-$350. Perhaps it could have been $249.99 or even $199.99.

36

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 04, 2012, 04:18:44 AM »

Jesus Cripes... the GamePad is the standard, traditional controller you've been saying you wanted for the last 6 years except it has a screen on it. Can you at least use it ONCE before you start trashing it? You're a confusing person. You say you want one thing then turn around say you want something else. You've beaten the I-want-traditional-controls-back horse beyond recognition; it's just bits of bone and guts at this point. Nintendo gives you not one, but TWO traditional controllers and yet it's still not good enough. How is that even possib... What new controller in this day and age wouldn't come across as a gimmick and still manage to instantly sell you on it? What can any company add that you won't curb stomp?

The only downside to the controller is that with it being as costly as it is Nintendo gutted the console itself in order to compensate. When you buy the $300-$350 Wii U, about $100 of that is going into the controller. If Nintendo had opted for a simpler controller without the bells and whistles then they could have beefed up the console specs a good deal more than they did while keeping the MSRP the same. They could have went with a modern CPU, and perhaps double the RAM for example. Then they wouldn't be outclassed in 2 years when the PS420 shows up with beastly hardware.

But I don't think there is anyone who has a problem with a screen built into the controller in and of itself. There's not much downside to it other than the fact that Nintendo is cutting corners in order to shoehorn it in. If we could have the gimmicky controller plus kickass hardware everyone would be happy, but instead of making everyone happy Nintendo decided to appease casual gamers only.

37

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 04, 2012, 04:02:37 AM »

For me the Wii U is not enticing because it's so similar to the Wii.  It has:
- A gimmick controller
- "Wii" in the name
- Miis all over the damn place in Nintendo Land and the Miiverse
- Potentially conservative hardware that won't stand up to it's competitors

These are precisely the reasons why I said I want the Wii U to fail. Only if the Wii U fails will the "Wii" brand die off and we can have any hope of getting the old Nintendo back. If the Wii U is hugely successful or even just does well enough to spur Nintendo into making a Wii U2 or Wii ME or Wii Them 5-6 years from now then that will really suck. Who knows when (or even if) we will ever have the old Nintendo back.

That said, I'm okay with the controller gimmick since it is at its core still a traditional controller, and developers can simply ignore the gimmicky aspects of it. As for the other points, I think if it was just one or two of them I could live with it, but if its going to be all of them plus shitty 3rd party support plus game droughts then that's probably too much for me.

In any case, I already missed the pre-order boat even before I was aware I could pre-order it, and considering its probably going to be sold out continuously for the next several months I probably won't be able to get the Wii U anytime soon even if it were something I were already sold on. I don't need another console that will just sit and collect dust. I need to see what the long term support of this console is going to look like. So its getting ports of 2011 PS360 games? That's well and good, but I can play those on my PS3 right now. What are things going to look like two years from now?

38

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 03, 2012, 02:50:39 PM »

The original Xbox 1 which came out in 2001 had an 8gb internal hard drive. This is exactly the same as the Wii U (basic) model. So its taken Nintendo 11 years to release a console with the same amount of internal storage that someone else did way back in 2001. Then combine that with a CPU which is slower than that of existing 6-7 year old consoles...

39

Nintendo Gaming / Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

« on: October 02, 2012, 03:03:52 PM »

Like I already said in my post, the Wii didn't need saving until 2011.  By that time it was too late to get anything done since its successor was just a year away.

I would argue the Wii needed saving since about 2009. But either way, even if it didn't need saving it never hurts to expand the game support of the platform regardless. Nintendo (or anyone) shouldn't be content with game support being "good enough". They should never stop looking to expand it, whether its necessary or not.

And as far as saving a console goes, the wisest policy instead of saving it is to never let it get to the point where it needs to be saved in the first place. The path of wisdom is to think ahead and plan for the future so you never get into a position where there are lengthy game droughts. If it requires you to do something years in advance, then do it years in advance. Don't wait until its too late before you do it.

40

Nintendo Gaming / Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

« on: October 01, 2012, 03:32:17 PM »

Well yeah since videogames take years to make.

That's why I specifically said in my post that this should have been done years ago. That was my whole point. Waiting until its too late was a mistake. Sure, it will be a good thing for the Wii U, but it should have been done when it could have saved the Wii.

41

Nintendo Gaming / Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

« on: October 01, 2012, 02:49:06 PM »

I applaud moves like this and how Nintendo snagged Bayonetta 2 and buying Fatal Frame and so forth. But I still can't get over the fact it took Nintendo so long to do this. Why didn't they make these moves years ago when they were sorely needed on the Wii? Its like even Nintendo knew the Wii was a lost cause, so they decided to wait until their next console before doing anything.

42

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Mass Effect, or: Why hoping for third party support on Wii U is a fool's game

« on: October 01, 2012, 01:16:54 PM »

I know you can get a transplant and there are machines, but I'm just thinking how weird it is that evolution (or a divine creator if you prefer) set humans up to have two kidneys and so on, but there's only one heart even though the heart is basically the most critical and important organ other than the brain. So the less important organs you get a back up, but the most important one of all you only have one. I just think its weird how that is.

I've read in the Star Trek universe the Klingons have at least two hearts and stuff, and that was because of how they are warriors and always suffering injuries and stuff which makes them more resilient. Star Trek is of course fiction, but this makes sense. Why aren't humans like that? If Darwinism is about the survival of the fittest then having a backup heart is obviously something that would increase the fitness of an organism, so why hasn't this happened? Yet we have two kidneys and two lungs and so forth? Why?

43

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U's launch price(s): Is it worth it?

« on: October 01, 2012, 01:01:24 AM »

I don't see Nintendo bumping up the internal storage. Why would they?

Because in a few years time the capacity and price of flash memory will have improved to the point that for whatever it costs Nintendo now to add the 8gb or 32gb internal storage of the Wii U, they could increase it to 64gb or 128gb or whatever and it wouldn't cost anymore for them to do that.

Just like how it wouldn't have cost them any extra to have revised the Wii's internal storage up from 512mb to 1gb or 2gb or whatever, even though they never actually did that. I believe what they did do with the Wii later in its life was they did actually go with larger flash capacity, but they disabled it to knock it down to 512mb even though they didn't need to.

44

NWR Forums Discord / Re: IN SODOMY

« on: September 30, 2012, 11:35:00 PM »

This is a song by Five For Fighting I heard on the radio. Anyone a fan of them?

45

Nintendo Gaming / Re: What Can I Use To Plug/Cover/Fill the Card Slot in a DS?

« on: September 30, 2012, 04:29:50 PM »

A piece of duct tape should do the trick.

46

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Kickstarter for new Pure Nintendo Magazine needs your help!

« on: September 30, 2012, 03:13:32 PM »

Usually: Clip, Clip, Tube, Magazine.

Isn't the last one a cylinder? You should know because you held a double action firearm in the movie dirty harry when you asked that punk if he felt lucky.

47

NWR Forums Discord / IN SODOMY

« on: September 30, 2012, 03:08:59 PM »

 I can't stand the flies
 I'm not that naive
 I'm just out to find
 The better part of me
 
 I'm more than a bird, I'm more than a plane
 I'm more than some pretty face inside a drain
 And it's not easy to be me
 
 Wish that I could cry
 Fall upon my knees
 Find a way to lie
 About a home I'll never see
 
 It may sound absurd, but don't be naive
 Even heroes have the right to bleed
 I'm greatly disturbed, from what you can see
 Even heroes have the right to dream
 It's not easy to be me
 
 Up, up and away, away from me
 It's all right, you can all sleep sound tonight
 I'm not crazy, or anything
 
 I can't stand the flies
 I'm not that naive
 Men want men to ride
 With clouds between their knees
 
 I'm only a man in a silly red sheet
 Begging for crap tonight on this one way street
 Only a man in a funny red sheet
 Looking to smash your face in sodomy
 In sodomy
 In sodomy
 Yeah, in sodomy
 In sodomy
 
 I'm only a man
 In a funny red sheet
 I'm only a man
 Looking for a dream
 
 I'm only a man
 In a funny red sheet
 And it's not easy
 
 Its not easy to be me

48

General Chat / Re: Old Nintendo Fleece I found in my garage :P

« on: September 30, 2012, 01:39:58 PM »

Does Mario have turtles shoved in his pants in the corner there?

PETA would probably have a field day over how Mario is abusing these innocent turtles by using them as footballs and stuff like that.

49

General Chat / Re: Old Nintendo Fleece I found in my garage :P

« on: September 30, 2012, 01:37:48 PM »

Unauthorized use of intellectual property. Your mom probably bought it at some Chinese import store.

Why do automatically assume its unauthorized? Licensed Mario merchandise has been around for decades. Why would a chinese importer shop be selling second hand mario merchandise from 20 years ago?

My guess is its really old and probably from the 80s or early 90s. It looks more like the Super Mario Bros. 3 era Mario than any more recent Mario, so I'm guessing this fleece came out around that time frame. So late NES or early SNES era.

ETA: Oh, I was replying to Morari. I thought you were TJ $pyke for some reason.

50

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Kickstarter for new Pure Nintendo Magazine needs your help!

« on: September 30, 2012, 12:58:02 PM »

A magazine is where an automatic or semi automatic firearm keeps it bullets.

What if its a bolt action, lever action, pump action, or double action firearm?