Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Smash_Brother on March 14, 2008, 02:58:21 PM
Title: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 14, 2008, 02:58:21 PM
Here are all the possibilities to eliminate/reduce lag in online matches:
1. USB Adaptor for a Wired Connection
It's $25 and it eliminates all concern about whether or not your wifi is on the right channel, has enough strength, has too much inteference, etc. $25 and it comes with a cable. You also won't have to type in a goddamn 26-digit WEP key with the software keyboard (yay!)
2. Open UDP ports going out or DMZ your Wii's IP address.
Most routers have a DMZ option, aka "demilitarized zone", meaning that whichever IP address has the DMZ on it will have full incoming and outgoing access to all ports.
1. Log into your router (usually http://192.168.1.1/). If you don't know your router's IP, use the "Run..." command in Windows and put in "ipconfig" and hit enter. One of the values it returns should be "Gateway" and you'll have an IP address for the Gateway: that's your "gateway" to the internet, aka your router's IP address. Put it into a browser window as the URL and hit enter.
2. Find the router's DHCP connection list. On this list, you will find your Wii (if it's on and WC24 is running, that is).
3. Copy your Wii's IP address and go to the router's DMZ section (DMZ = demilitarized zone, meaning all ports open).
4. Put the Wii's IP address into the DMZ, save the settings and reboot the router.
5. Try Brawl and see how it works.
NOTE: Your Wii's IP address can and will change if it's connecting through DHCP. This will behave as a temporary test to see if your Wii sees improvement or not.
You're basically opening your firewall to your Wii, which SHOULD mean that Gamespy's servers no longer need to proxy the stream so the two Wiis can remain connected, which is how it currently must behave if one or both Wiis is behind a firewall which normally blocks incoming connections from programs like Brawl.
To check to see if your ports are open, use this: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wii/en_na/NetworkTest.jsp
It's Nintendo's own network tester (you'll need XP and IE to use it, though).
This thread might also help: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=41913059
3. Don't download crap while playing Brawl and don't let others download crap, either
This is universal for any online gaming. My Team Fortress ping has gone insane whenever someone starts a bittorrent.
4. Make sure those you play with have their Wii DMZed as well!
It doesn't matter how open your firewall is if your online friends have theirs closed. This means that you're still going to be forced to proxy through Gamespy's servers on some level. Ideally, you want to establish a direct connection to your opponent, and this can only happen if Gamespy isn't needed as an intermediary to get through a firewall for either of the users.
More ideas as we learn them...
Title: Re: Possible lag solution...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 14, 2008, 03:04:36 PM
Why couldn't Nintendo just come out and say "open up yer effing UDP ports, noobs!" from Day 1?
Cuz they fail.
Title: Re: Possible lag solution...
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 14, 2008, 03:09:00 PM
I'm gonna do this when I get home. Port Forwarding is really useful for p2p, but I haven't bothered doing it for wii yet cause I am lazy.
Title: Re: Possible lag solution...
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 14, 2008, 03:12:53 PM
Why couldn't Nintendo just come out and say "open up yer effing UDP ports, noobs!" from Day 1?
No idea.
Nintendo has said it in the past "Online gaming won't be good until it's profitable". I'm uncertain why they haven't acted upon it.
I'd pay $4 a month (which is a current XBL subscription for 13 months, from what I hear) to have reliable servers which proxy without lagging horribly.
Title: Re: Possible lag solution...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 14, 2008, 03:13:37 PM
P2P = peer to peer
P4P = pay 4 pwnage
Title: Re: Possible lag solution...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 14, 2008, 03:15:32 PM
Yeah Nintendo still programs their games on 486 DX2's.
Give them a MODERN SERVER and their heads will probably explode.
Title: Re: Possible lag solution...
Post by: MegaByte on March 14, 2008, 03:17:47 PM
The NAT 1 2 3 thing and changing DHCP is bs, but opening the ports may make sense depending on whether games are actually allowed to make direct connections... I'll try that tonight.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 14, 2008, 03:48:27 PM
I might as well turn this into a full-blown lag thread.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Darkheart on March 14, 2008, 04:58:16 PM
When you say alleviation I think of Sinus issues. Is there pills for this issue?
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Plugabugz on March 14, 2008, 04:58:28 PM
Those on any kind of DSL connection, except SDSL, (stop sniggering!) will affect download speeds if they max out.
Does your ISP use "traffic management"? Otherwise known as throttling, it's very popular here. A 20mb cable connection here can be throttled by 75% if you download more than 350mb during "peak times". The likely time for "traffic management" to be applied is 4pm-12am. Pings, P2P and FTP may be pushed further down for web browsing.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 14, 2008, 07:07:35 PM
I haven't battled online AT ALL. I have a dmz set up and ports are forwarded. But I can never connect to ANYONE, I can use DS wifi without a problem. The web browser too, any ideas?
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: MegaByte on March 14, 2008, 08:58:40 PM
When you say anyone, do you mean random players or friends?
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: vudu on March 14, 2008, 09:09:57 PM
I haven't been able to connect with anyone at random, but friend matches have been no problem for me.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 14, 2008, 10:18:34 PM
When you say anyone, do you mean random players or friends?
No Randoms, and no friends either. No friends only because there hasn't been anyone :p
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: UncleBob on March 14, 2008, 10:43:14 PM
How does one go about doing #2?
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: MegaByte on March 14, 2008, 11:25:18 PM
More ways to improve wireless transmission.
- Turn off devices transmitting in the 2.4GHz band. e.g. wireless/bluetooth controllers, mice, keyboards, phones, microwaves, etc.
- Make sure Wii has good line of sight with the router. i.e. if transmitting through walls, make sure transmission is as perpendicular to the wall as possible.
- Use channel 1 or 11 or whatever overlaps least with other routers.
- If your router has some sort of special "double speed" or "burst mode," turn it off-- the Wii doesn't support it and can be slowed down by it.
- You may need to adjust the MTU, which will vary with your internet provider.
- Make sure the Wii isn't overheating. Many early Wiis had a problem, particularly with WC24 mode, which can degrade graphics and wireless transmission. If this is a problem, get your Wii fixed.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Tanookisuit on March 15, 2008, 08:16:25 PM
I've yet to play with friends, but when I'm playing random, I have the fear that I'm the guy causing lag. When I stop pressing any buttons, the games speeds up tremendously. Makes me feel like a jerk.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 16, 2008, 02:19:49 PM
1. Log into your router (usually http://192.168.1.1/). If you don't know your router's IP, use the "Run..." command in Windows and put in "ipconfig" and hit enter. One of the values it returns should be "Gateway" and you'll have an IP address for the Gateway: that's your "gateway" to the internet, aka your router's IP address. Put it into a browser window as the URL and hit enter.
2. Find the router's DHCP connection list. On this list, you will find your Wii (if it's on and WC24 is running, that is).
3. Copy your Wii's IP address and go to the router's DMZ section (DMZ = demilitarized zone, meaning all ports open).
4. Put the Wii's IP address into the DMZ, save the settings and reboot the router.
5. Try Brawl and see how it works.
NOTE: Your Wii's IP address can and will change if it's connecting through DHCP. This will behave as a temporary test to see if your Wii sees improvement or not.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 16, 2008, 02:48:01 PM
Wow...
I just checked in the manual and apparently you can get as good as a BLUE connection when playing with friends online. The best I've ever gotten is a green, and that's even to Dirk who's an hour drive from me at most. What the hell does it take to get a blue connection rating?!
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: MegaByte on March 16, 2008, 04:54:44 PM
What the hell does it take to get a blue connection rating?!
Connect from inside Nintendo's server room.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 16, 2008, 05:30:26 PM
Now I'm curious, I have played many other wifi-ready games online. I have no connection problems at all, this shouldn't be an exception onces they actually get the servers going right?
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Svevan on March 16, 2008, 05:52:59 PM
What the hell does it take to get a blue connection rating?!
Connect from inside Nintendo's server room.
or move to Japan
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 18, 2008, 02:58:59 AM
Here's something that a friend of mine told me. He says that he was able to play someone in the UK with very little lag. He lives in Puerto Rico, so how did he get a good match with someone that far away?
Well, his solution is that you let the person with the strongest connection host the game.
This might work on a duel match, but what about 4 player matches? It doesn't matter if the host has a strong connection, after all, aren't the connections clashing with each other?
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 18, 2008, 03:09:58 AM
Lag brings about a different kind of champion. The one who knows not time, nor space, nor hygene.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Ceric on March 18, 2008, 09:32:50 AM
What the hell does it take to get a blue connection rating?!
Connect from inside Nintendo's server room.
Actually at the Carmi Event we got Blue connections so connecting Wiis on the same LAN will do it.
or move to Japan
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Svevan on March 18, 2008, 03:25:25 PM
Ceric, I don't know if you've noticed it, but in lots of your posts lately you've been putting your words inside your quotes, leading them to make no sense.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: vudu on March 18, 2008, 03:28:42 PM
It's like a treasure hunt!
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 18, 2008, 04:19:20 PM
I've done everything I can to enable my Wii to connect as directly as possible. I've even given it the one public IP address my DSL modem offers to ensure it's absolutely first on the connection list.
Maybe Nintendo's servers will calm down in a few more weeks, but I somehow doubt it. Brawl is the only game I know people will want to play online for years to come.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 18, 2008, 04:22:11 PM
We can drop this bad dream and wait for Mario Kart.
What you say, guys
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Pale on March 18, 2008, 04:23:07 PM
why would you want to LAN your wiis to play smash? It's not like online supports any more than 4 people...
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 18, 2008, 04:26:30 PM
So that nintards can play catch-up with the Halo scene from 2001.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Ceric on March 18, 2008, 04:26:52 PM
Ceric, I don't know if you've noticed it, but in lots of your posts lately you've been putting your words inside your quotes, leading them to make no sense.
For some reason or another my cursor just ends up there. I click quote and type forgetting to look where it put my cursor. Not used to these new fangled forums.
Well I wasn't questioning why you did it, as it is an interesting experiment. I was more questioning why you would want to going forward.
To get the Blue dot? *shrug*
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 20, 2008, 02:22:26 AM
I'd like to do it just to be sure that it exists.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: darknight06 on March 22, 2008, 08:18:50 PM
Didn't I warn people around here about this long time ago...
Have you guys ever played any fighting game online EVER? I don't see how Smash having lag is any big surprise here. Fighting games in general can either be somewhat decent with input delay or just unplayable in an online space. Tekken 5 is an abomination online. So is UMK3, DS or Live Arcade, SF2T isn't any better, Capcom Vs. SNK 2 was throw matches and incredibly long load times between rounds. Those are all 1 on 1 and they have problems. Smash Brawl is 4 player or 2 on 2 with RANDOM as hell crap going on ALL the time. I think it's a hell of a feat for them to have even gotten just this much. Truth be told, anybody wanting to really test their skill wouldn't do it online anyway, you'd do it on a single console where nothing of the sort can go wrong. Without considering anything else, the input delay by itself completely destroys any gameplay credibility by itself, hence the intelligent removal of leaderboards and displayed online W/L records. They wouldn't matter, EVER.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 23, 2008, 05:24:36 PM
I agree. SSBB is a feat, especially when I HAVE gotten some near-perfect matches online.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Kairon on March 23, 2008, 05:29:11 PM
I don't mind lag. But IT KEEPS DISCONNECTING ME T_T
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 03, 2008, 04:34:18 PM
So, has it been agreed what the optimum network settings are?
Short of switching to the LAN adapter, I've:
1. Assigned a static IP to my Wii that's >10 values higher than other computers attached to my router (like 192.168.1.20), by Nintendo's recommendation. 2. Port-forwarded all 1-65xxx ports for my Wii's IP, set to "UDP" only. 3. Set my Wii as the default DMZ server. 4. Set my router for Wireless G connections at the minimum. (go away Wireless B, you're not wanted here) 5. I'm on Comcast Cable, and my MTU is set to 1500. Wiki mentions PPoE/DSL should have MTU=1492. (is there a reason to go slightly higher or lower?). 6. Manually entered all this and other necessary network values into my Wii's internet settings. 7. I don't like Wii System Menu's "test connection" option, so instead I save all those settings, exit to the Wii Menu, then completely shutdown the console, turn it back on, then load the Shop Channel. I'm cool like that. 8. I disable all downloads and instant messengers, "live" programs like email programs, auto-updating antivirus (aka user-implemented sabotage), and Windows Updates. 9. I also disable Brawl's "allow spectators" option, cuz I don't want the game saving and uploading unnecessary replays to the rest of the world (and I don't know WHEN the game decides to upload them either). 10. Hope that my roommate isn't using wireless interweb from his laptop, or talking on the phone. (i know for a fact wireless interweb interfered with sounds that were supposed to come out of my Wii Remote speaker during other games)
My 1on1's with Bill and SmashBro played surprisingly well AFTER I made these super optimizations, and we're on opposite coasts.
I know Bill's internet sux cuz his Brawl rooms always kick me off WFC.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 03, 2008, 04:36:46 PM
The LAN adapter is $25. If you can do it (distance-wise), I'd say go for it.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: DAaaMan64 on April 03, 2008, 04:45:11 PM
The LAN adapter is $25. If you can do it (distance-wise), I'd say go for it.
I don't really believe we need that. I think it is just server load and people not having all the necessary ports open. You would still have to do that with wireless.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: vudu on April 03, 2008, 04:57:13 PM
So, has it been agreed what the optimum network settings are?
Short of switching to the LAN adapter, I've:
1. Assigned a static IP to my Wii that's >10 values higher than other computers attached to my router (like 192.168.1.20), by Nintendo's recommendation.
Nintendo recommends that?? Static IP is one thing, but the >10 is just plain idiotic.... oh wait, I see what they did. They're probably trying to make the advice idiot proof so someone doesn't pick 1 (likely the routers') or 0, etc. To bad most people won't be able to find their own IP address (on their computer).
2. Port-forwarded all 1-65xxx ports for my Wii's IP, set to "UDP" only. 3. Set my Wii as the default DMZ server.
Step 3 makes step 2 redundant.
4. Set my router for Wireless G connections at the minimum. (go away Wireless B, you're not wanted here)
B has all sorts of "speed issues" so to speak, and running in "mixed mode" you can be affected by them. So if you don't have any B devices, you should set it for G only.
5. I'm on Comcast Cable, and my MTU is set to 1500. Wiki mentions PPoE/DSL should have MTU=1492. (is there a reason to go slightly higher or lower?).
By setting the MTU correctly, your trying to avoid fragmentation (lets just call that bad for now without the details :) ). 1500 is your max MTU for the typical use case. By lowering it you can compensate for the overhead that may be added by your ISP (ie: PPoE). If you didn't lower it then the total would be over 1500 and you'd get fragmentation.
6. Manually entered all this and other necessary network values into my Wii's internet settings.
If you configure it statically then yes, you need to type in all the different numbers manually :)
7. I don't like Wii System Menu's "test connection" option, so instead I save all those settings, exit to the Wii Menu, then completely shutdown the console, turn it back on, then load the Shop Channel. I'm cool like that.
If you say so. You still need to tell it to use that connection, which I thought forced you to "Test it"
8. I disable all downloads and instant messengers, "live" programs like email programs, auto-updating antivirus (aka user-implemented sabotage), and Windows Updates.
Torrents are likely the biggest culprit for the general populus. The stuff you list isn't traffic heavy.
9. I also disable Brawl's "allow spectators" option, cuz I don't want the game saving and uploading unnecessary replays to the rest of the world (and I don't know WHEN the game decides to upload them either).
I've wondered the same things myself. What does participating in the spectator mode mean. I believe it's only for random non-friend matches, right? If that's the case, Nintendo might not need to send anything from your console (as those matches hit a central sever I believe - bah, I need to get a wireless PCI card, or a lan adapter...)
10. Hope that my roommate isn't using wireless interweb from his laptop, or talking on the phone. (i know for a fact wireless interweb interfered with sounds that were supposed to come out of my Wii Remote speaker during other games)
I'd blame that on the crappy speakers in the things... My remote is at zero volume from day one.
Title: Re: The Lag Alleviation Thread
Post by: vudu on April 04, 2008, 04:41:34 PM
