Author Topic: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?  (Read 7779 times)

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Offline davidlow122

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Two companies, one story?

The history of The Sega Saturn and the Sega Dreamcast

Sega Saturn

Sega releases a large black console in the US, about the size of a VCR, called the Saturn. It has internal memory for saving games (in this case a battery back up) so it doesn’t need a memory card, but it supports memory cards too.

It uses the same media as Sony’s Playstation (CD), and has the same media functionality (plays audio CDs).

It is released in the US with a very large controller, that in functionality (that is, buttons) is basically a rip-off of Sega’s last effort (the Mega Drive pad), with the added functionality of Nintendo's last pad (The SNES shoulder buttons)

People scorn the size and form of the controller, so it is quickly replaced with the Japanese edition, which had the same buttons but was smaller.

Eventually, the Saturn’s much hyped online service, Sega NetLink is launched. Only about 6% of Saturn users ever use the service (most of them in Japan).

The launch price is very expensive compared to what consoles have cost in the past, although Sega were still making a substantial loss on the system.

While having a loyal user base, the console is not profitable, and it loses a lot of money for Sega.

The system’s design was also such that it couldn’t be revised to save on manufacturing costs, so any price drops had to be absorbed by Sega themselves, and the company lost even more.

By 1998, Sega has lost $309 million on the Saturn in the US alone.

The Saturn is only just hitting it’s stride creatively when Sega starts winding down production of the hardware, with amazing games like Burning Rangers, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Marvel vs Street Fighter and Radiant Silvergun coming out when Sega's next console was already late in development.

The Saturn has about a 12 million installed user base when Sega kills it off by moving to Dreamcast development, the majority of which are in Japan (8 million)

Sega Dreamcast

Well before Sony and Nintendo’s current consoles (PS1 and N64) life cycle is complete, Sega releases a smaller, white console called the Dreamcast. This console does not have the inbuilt memory of it’s predecessor, and requires additional hardware to save games, in the form of a new type of memory card with a small LCD screen, called the VMU. It is not backward compatible with its predecessor.

It uses a new untested media format called GD rom, which is basically a higher density version of their last machine’s format (CD). It retains the media functionality of it’s predecessor (plays audio CDs).

It’s controller steals Nintendo’s analogue stick and controller slot.

Sega once again heavily promotes it’s online service (even naming the console after it - “Dreamcast” as in “broadcast”), and once again only a small percentage of players ever use the service.

To begin with, the console’s graphics are great, way better then Sony and Nintendo’s ageing hardware. But by the time the new Sony and Nintendo come out, the Dreamcast’s graphics are looking pretty dated. It doesn’t help that apart from some great exceptions, a lot of DC games are just higher resolution versions of N64 and PS1 games.

Despite hopes to the contrary, Sega are losing just as much money on the Dreamcast as they were on the Saturn.

Pretty soon, Sega shareholders are out of patience, and Dreamcast production is ceased.

Sega leaves the console race in massive debt.


The history of The Microsoft Xbox and the Microsoft Xbox360.

(companies' names changed, there are also a few other small edits.)

Microsoft Xbox

Microsoft releases a large black console in the US, about the size of a VCR, called the Xbox. It has internal memory for saving games (in this case a Hard Drive) so it doesn’t need a memory card, but it supports memory cards too.

It uses the same media as Sony’s Playstation 2 (DVD), and has the same media functionality (plays DVDs).

It is released in the US with a very large controller, that in functionality is basically a rip-off of Sega’s last effort (the Dreamcast pad), also ripping off the added functionality of Nintendo’s new pad (the Gamecube’s c-stick).

People scorn the size and form of the controller, so it is quickly replaced with the Japanese edition, which had the same buttons but was smaller.

Eventually, the Xbox’s much hyped online service, Xbox Live is launched. Only about 6% of Xbox users actually use the service.

The launch price is very expensive compared to what consoles have cost in the past, although Microsoft were still making a substantial loss on the system.

While having a loyal user base, the console is not profitable, and it loses a lot of money for Microsoft.

The system’s design was also such that it couldn’t be revised to save on manufacturing costs, so any price drops had to be absorbed by Microsoft themselves, and the company lost even more.

By 2005, Microsoft had lost US$4 Billion on the Xbox.

The Xbox was only hitting it’s stride creatively when Microsoft started winding down production of the hardware, with amazing games like Fable, Doom 3 and Forza Motorsport coming out when Microsoft’s next console was already late in development.

The Xbox had about a 20 million installed user base when Microsoft killed it off by moving to Xbox360 development.

Microsoft Xbox360

Well before Sony and Nintendo’s current consoles (PS2 and Gamecube) life cycle is complete, Microsoft releases a smaller, white console called the Xbox360. This console does not have the inbuilt memory of it’s predecessor, and requires additional hardware to save games, in the form of a new type of External hard Drive. It is not backward compatible with its predecessor.

It uses a new untested media format called HD DVD, which is basically a higher density version of their last machine’s format (DVD). It retains the media functionality of it’s predecessor (plays DVDs).

It’s controller steals Nintendo’s Wireless function.

Microsoft once again heavily promotes it’s online service, and once again only a small percentage of players ever use the service.

To begin with, the console’s graphics are great, way better then Sony and Nintendo’s ageing hardware. But by the time the new Sony and new Nintendo come out, the Xbox 360’s graphics are looking pretty dated. It doesn’t help that apart from some exceptions, a lot of Xbox360 games are just higher resolution versions of PS2 and Gamecube games.

Despite hopes to the contrary, Microsoft are losing just as much money on the Xbox360 as they were on the Xbox.

Pretty soon, Microsoft shareholders are out of patience, and Xbox360 production is ceased.

Microsoft leaves the console race, with the games division in massive debt.
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Offline PaLaDiN

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2005, 11:09:47 PM »
Why is everybody obsessed with drawing parallels to the Dreamcast?

As far as I remember, the Dreamcast failed for one simple reason:

Sega lost too much money.

That's just not going to happen, for any of the current console makers.
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Offline davidlow122

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2005, 11:13:50 PM »
I just thought of this the other day. Of course there are differences, but there are certainly parallels too, don't you think?
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Offline Deguello

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2005, 11:25:14 PM »
Eerie.  But a correction.  The Xbox360 will use DVD9's.  HD DVD and BluRay have both been scrapped as Sony and Toshiba agree to work on a unified format.
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Offline Grant10k

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2005, 06:58:46 AM »
It's a conspiracy!!!, Sega killed Kennedy!!
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Offline jarob

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2005, 07:01:38 AM »
I have been following the blu-ray vs HD DVD discussions for a while.  Can you show me a link where they will merge?  Last I heard they were in discussions.

You could do comparisons for virtually everything if you wanted.  Personally I hope the Xbox 360 does good, completion is great :-)

Offline kirby_killer_dedede

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2005, 10:08:41 AM »
"Eventually, the Xbox’s much hyped online service, Xbox Live is launched. Only about 6% of Xbox users actually use the service."

That statistic is almost definitely off...Xbox Live is IMMENSELY popular.  It's a cheap (50 dollars a year is not bad at all, and I wouldn't mind paying that for Rev online) yet terrific service.

The connections are kind of intense though.
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Offline Deguello

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2005, 01:25:46 PM »
Yeah, it's not 6%.  More like 10%.

Still some stunted numbers for such a hyped service.
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Offline davidlow122

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2005, 06:48:09 PM »
It's actually almost exactly 6%!
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Offline mantidor

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RE:Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2005, 10:04:17 PM »
do you have any kind of link for that? I wouldnt be surprised at all about a confirmation though, misinformation in the gaming community is big, xbox live a success? hardly.  
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Offline Don'tHate742

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2005, 03:08:50 AM »
Just like people saying the xbox was a success...hardly. (in terms of money)
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Offline BigJim

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RE:Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2005, 03:16:48 AM »
MS Claims 20 Million Xboxes Sold Worldwide (as of April)

Xbox Live page says there are a million worldwide Live Subscribers

I don't know when the Live page was last updated for accuracy, but that basically puts them at 5%, give or take a little, with the readily available numbers.  
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Offline stevey

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2005, 06:38:20 AM »
yeah I see it but one small thing they have too much money to die that way. but lets hope they do then sega will come back.
"Eerie. But a correction. The Xbox360 will use DVD9's. HD DVD and BluRay have both been scrapped as Sony and Toshiba agree to work on a unified format."
What! Is that true anyone have a link to it? Good no vhs vs. beta max.  
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2005, 07:31:09 AM »
I disagree with a few things in that comparison, mainly the claim that Microsoft will lose just as much money on the Xbox 360 as the original system.  It could definitely happen, but last I heard Microsoft had released no details about pricing, so any claim that they'll lose money on the hardware is pure speculation right now - and that is where most of the money was being lost.  Judging by the fact that Microsoft is releasing multiple versions of the hardware, I think the safest guess is that Microsoft is going to raise the prices on it's hardware and try to convince consumers that the prices are the same as ever by offering the stripped-down system.

I also don't think power will play a big role in the next generation, since there will most likely be less than one year of difference in the tech appearing in all three systems, and graphics are reaching a plateau (in my opinion).  In fact, my prediction is that unless Nintendo totally changes the types of games it releases next gen, Revolution will probably be perceived as the weakest system just because Nintendo doesn't go for realism in its graphics.

But most of all, it comes down to the same thing Paladin said: Sega was already in financial trouble.  If Sega hadn't already failed with the Saturn, Nomad and numerous Genesis peripherals, the Dreamcast would probably still be alive today.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2005, 11:42:01 PM »
Look at the name of the link to Yahoo's Xbox leak article - coincedence?  

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050509/en_nm/tech_microsoft_xbox_dc_2  
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Offline nolimit19

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RE:Xbox = Saturn, Xbox 360 = Dreamcast. Notice some parralells?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2005, 11:29:27 AM »
the only thing that is really different is that sega released dreamcast years ago...things have changed since then. everyone has the internet, and almost everyone has played online games at one point or another...i wouldnt mind the xbox360 tanking though...
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