Author Topic: Um, Apple thread  (Read 251380 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #525 on: September 12, 2016, 01:40:52 AM »
Holy **** you actually think you are better than 1000's of people actually dedicated to designing phones.

Maybe not all of them ;) . I wonder why you are taking this so personally. You obviously see no reason to upgrade from your 5s. Is that a financial decision or do you agree with me that Apple is out of ideas? And if you do, then why are you defending them when I point out other companies are innovating in the same field?


You instead placed the onus on me, the consumer, instead of a company worth billions and asked me to innovate, so I did. And then you picked apart my ideas as if I had been working on cell phones my entire life.


The simple truth is you are just as disappointed with Apple as I am. Come to terms with it.


And now I have an attachment to my ideas so I'm going to defend them :D . It's your right to **** right off if you don't like where this is headed or continue the discussion and maybe add some of your own ideas on how Apple could innovate?


Quote
1. You have no idea how encryption works, stop it. If you want extra security features you use self deleting messaging apps and/or encrypted data links not some butchered $16000 phone. There are a range of software solutions that already solved that problem.

You are right about that! I am curious though. Why is a hardware lock such a bad idea for a phone or any electronic?


Quote
2. Now you got 2+ bits of a phone running around your pocket with 2+ batteries to content with with the additional power consumption of radio links. The radio part of a phone is small even when you include the antenna. That's why it isn't some second attachment or standalone box. You can have your silly non-functionality right now if you have an iPod touch and a dumb phone. You can test it out yourself right now by carrying a useless object of your choosing along with you phone and see how that works out for you.


Well let's see. I got my wallet in my back left. My phone in my front right. My front left pocket are my keys and my back left is empty. Sure why not! :D


Useless or not that "thing" can take a beating while the phone you have right now cannot. Your phone also can't last for more than 18 hours, but that "thing", without a screen, could potentially last a week. Also that "thing" could be the size of your credit card and eventually the size of your apartment dongle.


At the same time, your "phone" now costs about 50 bucks to replace. So don't worry if you break it, burn it, flush it, lose it, toss it over a cliff, microwave it, get mugged, etc. You can stop into your nearest gas station and pick up a new one. There are about 10x^10 different variations to choose from. Some have large speakers. Some have better cameras. Some have a joystick and buttons. Whatever floats your boat. Oh there's also one that floats. Buy one, two, or three. And since it doesn't have a "phone" in it, there's a large battery in there, making it last a week as well.



Oh I almost forgot. There's neat feature about that "thing" BTW. You can pop it in your computer monitor at home (you know the one that houses a GPU, RAM, and an HDD?) and use a keyboard and mouse to peruse the web, work, or play games. Don't worry though, you can still make calls from your "phone". That is, unless you want to facetime with your monitor instead?

And I will kickstart it if I doesn't happen in the next 4 years for the absolute **** of it.

Quote
Have a look at how far smart watches have taken off. I have yet to see someone have one let alone use it.

Hahaha. I was the first person to **** on smart watches. They're an awful idea, at least right now. Still, I do think I can make it better ;) . If it were a little bigger, more rectangular and there was someway to take it off your wrist without undoing the strap (maybe a swivel lock), you could probably text on it, and that'd be enough to make it popular.

Quote
3. Including a feature for the sake of including one drives up the price. Things with such niche purpose is always better off as an separate device. No one outside of those specialists would use it as the data is worthless to your average person. What happens if the sensor costs the same as the previous full size one that runs into the tens 1000 dollars? Are we still including that just because we can?

Well of course there's a cost/benefit analysis you'd do. This is a fake business we're talking about. The point I was making is you'd probably not add it if it costs pennies on the dollar because it serves no immediate purpose to you, and therefore Joe the Public (starting to love that name) won't have anything to do with it. As CEO of my fake company, I have more faith in Joe.

Quote
The barometer isn't used for what you think it does. It acts as another GPS "satellite" to give you a more accurate fix as to where you are. GPS sucks when giving you elevation data. It can place you on the surface of Earth within the meter but elevation error is measured in hundreds of meters if not more. That's why when getting a GPS coordinate it never gives you an elevation. Even with a barometer I wouldn't trust the height information as it wouldn't be calibrated properly.

Crowd sourcing barometer data wouldn't be useful as the barometer wouldn't know what the specific nature of where it is at. Inside a small building the pressure difference might be 1 or 2 (30-60 feet height difference!)points but if you go into a high rise the error increases. If you go into a pressurised building like a skyscraper the data is worthless. Long streets with building on both sides would give you false data. All this is assuming people would be willing to part with this information at their expense.

There far more to weather than local pressure differences and I bet that developer is BS by reselling you data from other weather services.

I am aware it's used for location purposes as well. I am also aware people (Joe) wouldn't send data when they're inside their homes, similarly to people not sending traffic info to Waze when their not driving.


Your point about the unpredictability or faulty data becomes moot when you add several million data points. And that's what I'm suggesting, and that's what these developers are doing.


And people are willing to part with information if it benefits their lives. There's countless examples of that already.


Quote
4. A squeeze phone is a too inaccurate of an input. Do you know how much force you unconsciously hold a controller or steering wheel? Do you know how much your grip changes as you move or balance yourself? Have you ever thought about why the Gamecube controller trigger has so much travel? or why no one uses the two button sensitivity of the PS controller? Think how inaccurate motion controls are.

What happens if you forget to lock your phone before you put it into your pocket? There be some epic butt dialling, hope 911 doesn't show up. You already scoff at Siri which can be pretty imprecise at times and you want to apply the grip equivalent to the outside of your phone.


I wasn't thinking the whole phone was squeezable like a chew toy or something, just the sides, so sitting on it wouldn't do anything. Still, your point is well taken. Maybe there should be a sensor on the back in case you sit on it. You could program the phone to fart. And that, my friends, are how great ideas are born.


Quote
5. Did you not watch Apple's press conference when they offered wireless ear buds? Have you had a look at the minimum size of ear buds have to be? People don't want phones to be that bulky.

Most people don't use a wireless ear piece not because it isn't available but because it is too inconvenient and fiddly and people don't want to be carrying around another piece of equipment especially one with another battery they have to keep an eye on with a short life. It's 2 part phone redux. I followed links on Google and they suck.



You're right. I don't see Apples earbuds being popular either. Maybe if they somehow had them come out of the phone instead.


Fake CEO time: I'd ask my engineering team to make an earpiece that looks like a stylus when you pull it from the phone, but bends when placed around your ear for a snug fit.

Quote
It isn't that I don't have an "Imagination", it is that I filter it through reality before I spew it out on paper. Please self filter more. The lack of self filtering is why we end up with dumb gimmick kickstarters that fail. You're not "innovating" anything, you're just spewing **** out. Do your Kickstarter now, see how far you get.





Quote
There is no point in continuing this discussion as you're going to continue your manic rant and I am no longer going to invest anymore energy trying to talk you down. I shouldn't have tried in the first place and just let you ramble on. I regret this waste of energy now.


Eh...I'll give you my first post...It was a bit ranty. The others? Those, my friend, were responses.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 01:45:54 AM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline oohhboy

  • Forum Friend or Foe?
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #526 on: September 12, 2016, 05:23:47 AM »
I am no disappointed. I simply recognize we are at a technological end point for what we can do with a smart phone for the foreseeable future.

If someone steals your phone or goes after your data having a physical lock isn't going to stop them. The phone being encrypted is.

Your two part phone has absolutely nothing innovative a about it, in fact it is anti-innovative. Buy a burner phone, those things can idle for a week at a time, get a small tablet and you have virtually exactly the same functionality. You are basically trying to undo the smart phone. It's dumb. I don't know about you, but $50 isn't money you tag to throw away.

If you want a specific higher functionality you buy that specific device. Buy a boombox if you want bigger speakers. Buy a full size camera if you want higher quality pictures. Buy a Vita or N3DS if you want joystick / gaming. Google tried to make a component phone and failed.

Why would I want to compute on a phone when I have a desktop at home and I can cloud sync just about anything I want between them?

Kickstart it now if you are so sure docking a phone to a monitor is a thing. Just do it, why wait 4 years. DOOO IITTT.

If they make smart watches any bigger you might as well just slap the phone on to your wrist.

How would you statistically cull or average out all this bad information that is also moving around? You have no idea whether the sensor is broken or what it's local conditions are or it's calibration or it's height, what about sensor holes?. Then you have to get people to opt-in and have a system in place to process the massive amount of data needed to predict weather. Then you need a **** load of other data you aren't getting from the single points of data from the phones. It would be garbage in, garbage out. That developer you keep alluding to is full of ****.

Thanks for making everyone dumb by linking that quote and yeah I seen that episode and yes it is still a cartoon. Having an imagination is great and all but you still go to make it work for it to mean something.

I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #527 on: September 12, 2016, 12:56:31 PM »
I am no disappointed. I simply recognize we are at a technological end point for what we can do with a smart phone for the foreseeable future.

And this is our main point of contention.

Quote
Your two part phone has absolutely nothing innovative a about it, in fact it is anti-innovative. Buy a burner phone, those things can idle for a week at a time, get a small tablet and you have virtually exactly the same functionality. You are basically trying to undo the smart phone. It's dumb. I don't know about you, but $50 isn't money you tag to throw away.

If you want a specific higher functionality you buy that specific device. Buy a boombox if you want bigger speakers. Buy a full size camera if you want higher quality pictures. Buy a Vita or N3DS if you want joystick / gaming. Google tried to make a component phone and failed.

Why would I want to compute on a phone when I have a desktop at home and I can cloud sync just about anything I want between them?

Kickstart it now if you are so sure docking a phone to a monitor is a thing. Just do it, why wait 4 years. DOOO IITTT.

I have too much on my plate as it is to produce a slick video and prototype.


This is not a phone. This is not a tablet. This is your computer in your pocket. This is the CPU that runs your desktop, your laptop, your tablet, your phone, your watch, and any other electronics that needs a speedy processor.


Desktops are overkill for most people, yet people do like a larger screen to look at. Should they buy a desktop for a screen? Shall I buy a laptop and hook up a monitor instead? Does this not make my laptop a component?


Speaking of which, laptops that provide serious processing power are overkill as well. Most people can get by with running Office and a browser, yet are forced to pay for CPU for the luxury of a keyboard, a decent OS, a larger HDD and a bigger screen.


When people purchase tablets, they simply want a bigger screen, but again, it's a packaged deal. Furthermore, companies ask them to pay a premium when they want to connect to data towers, to attach the tablet to their cell plan, or even worse, purchase a new cell service plan all together. I have a perfectly good cell plan in my pocket (and don't get me started on tethering fees).


When buying a new phone, the least important feature in most customers eyes is the marginally faster CPU. It's usually the better camera, the waterproofing, bigger battery, etc., yet they are subjected to extraordinary prices each year because it's a packaged deal.


And your smartwatch is already compartmentalized.


If you're content with paying exuberant prices year to year, upgrade to upgrade, that is your prerogative. I see things differently. I see a culture of minuscule upgrades and large price tags. And I'm sick of it. These are not instruments, where having two is better than having one; this is hermit crab technology, where we dispense of one and climb into a new one.


That is why the idea of upgrading one thing, the computer in your pocket, rather than several is a damn good idea. If we live in a world of hermit crab technology, might as well act like it.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 12:58:26 PM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline nickmitch

  • You can edit these yourself now?!
  • Score: 82
    • View Profile
    • FACEBOOK!
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #528 on: September 12, 2016, 10:34:00 PM »
I think you just described the Asus PadFone with extra steps.
TVman is dead. I killed him and took his posts.

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #529 on: September 13, 2016, 01:50:25 AM »


Pretty much. The Motorola Atrix is also similar to what I'm proposing.


The problem those phones encountered is compatibility. They are the only phones capable of using their respective docks. Phones within the same company or even later versions of the same line can't fit properly. And that's probably why they failed to catch on. It's still a good idea, however.


But you bring up an interesting point. I proposed a wireless link between the computer in your pocket (CIYP) and your "phone", so I don't know why it couldn't work with a tablet. And with the invention of USB-C, you could connect a cord to your monitor or laptop to access the gpu, ram, and HDD. So, you're right. You could use your phone now in all these situations, so why the extra step?

And my response is the same as earlier. There's several advantages to separating the CPU from everything else:

1. The main advantage is not having to continually buy your processor. Things will become substantially cheaper from that step alone.

2. You can build it to withstand a great amount of damage, insuring it lasts a long time,.

3. Batteries would last drastically longer for your CIYP, your phone, and your devices, since you'll essentially have two working together.

4. Damaging your phone or cracking the screen will become a much less troublesome affair as it is easily replaced.

5. You could standardize the shape of the CIYP to fit inside your devices rather than connect by a cord.

6. And while your CIYP is docked with a device, you'll still be able to interact with your phone. You won't trade functionality like the padfone and atrix.

7. You could begin to make the CIYP smaller and smaller through the generations.

8. You could begin to experiment with the design of the phone without needing to worry where the CPU will fit in. Batteries and screens are the major factors in phones looking similar, but at least we took one thing out of the equation.

This is helpful. If I ever Kickstart this idea, I'll look back on this.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 01:57:42 AM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline oohhboy

  • Forum Friend or Foe?
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #530 on: September 13, 2016, 01:59:53 AM »
I have too much on my plate as it is to produce a slick video and prototype.
If you think this is such a good idea you really should do it now, if not you're full of ****. If I am wrong you make millions of dollars, if I am right you lose $10,000s dollars, get mocked and get beaten to the market anyway as nickmitch pointed out or by the sea of after market parts.

You're not solving anything. You are creating more problems and creating worse devices that cannot function on it's own and you're not saving any money. Instead of carrying your just your phone you are now always carrying 2+ devices. How big do you envision this "CPU" to be? Processing power, size, weight, power consumption, form factor and heat do not combine. You have to pick and choose.

It is why we have dedicated devices. I don't see how tying every other device to a single point of failure is helping anything. Take a Camera, instead of having a swappable memory card and batteries you are at the mercy of the device with the lowest battery life aka your "CPU". You can even switch off digital displays with cameras saving power by shooting old school.

Have a look at Ouya that tried to take mobile components and turn them into a console. It failed. The engineering realities of a console and a mobile device are mutually exclusive.

The point of the Smart Phone is to be good enough, a jack of all trades. If you want better you buy that dedicated device. If I, personally buy a new phone now it it would simply be a display of wealth not utility.

You can buy a CPU retail for $50 and now your desktop can run on it's own with more power than your cellular "CPU"
http://pricespy.co.nz/category.php?k=500&o=produkt_pris_inkmoms#prodlista

If you want a phone that last all week but a burner phone. If you want bigger speakers buy an after market speaker dock or a $2 male to male cable. Buy a Camera if you are serious about taking photos, even the cheapest one will out-perform the best phone camera. If you want to find the pH of something get litmus test stripes.

A fully dedicated device will always be better than a smart phone or what you are trying to sell.

Post edit: Your CIYP is another incompatible piece of tech. I have also made the thread dumber yet again by posting a cartoon and missing the point of the message.
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?

Offline nickmitch

  • You can edit these yourself now?!
  • Score: 82
    • View Profile
    • FACEBOOK!
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #531 on: September 13, 2016, 01:29:01 PM »
The problem those phones encountered is compatibility. They are the only phones capable of using their respective docks. Phones within the same company or even later versions of the same line can't fit properly. And that's probably why they failed to catch on. It's still a good idea, however.

The only way that docking works is if one piece of hardware is designed to fit into another.  The phone has to be specifically designed for that purpose.  You can make it work otherwise. You can give every phone in you make the same form factor, otherwise you're just making the same phone.
TVman is dead. I killed him and took his posts.

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #532 on: September 13, 2016, 03:46:54 PM »

The problem those phones encountered is compatibility. They are the only phones capable of using their respective docks. Phones within the same company or even later versions of the same line can't fit properly. And that's probably why they failed to catch on. It's still a good idea, however.


The only way that docking works is if one piece of hardware is designed to fit into another.  The phone has to be specifically designed for that purpose.  You can make it work otherwise. You can give every phone in you make the same form factor, otherwise you're just making the same phone.


Did you mean to say "You can't give every phone the same form factor."? If so, that is the problem I was alluding towards. It is the reason why I listed several ways you could "dock" without physically locking in your device. And wasn't that the point you were trying make? That docking your phone was unnecessary to achieve the same results and that you didn't need an extra step?

I gave several examples why it is important to still separate the hardware of the phone from its screen, one of them being the ability to standardize the CIYP with universal docking in mind (at least within the same company). This leaves your phone to be as different as you'd like.


I have too much on my plate as it is to produce a slick video and prototype.
If you think this is such a good idea you really should do it now, if not you're full of ****. If I am wrong you make millions of dollars, if I am right you lose $10,000s dollars, get mocked and get beaten to the market anyway as nickmitch pointed out or by the sea of after market parts.



I'm not trying to delude you or safeguard my ego. I don't have the time to invest fully into this idea. I wish I did because I don't like to half-ass anything. Still, maybe instead of using the 15 minutes it takes to reply to you, I could start drawing some models :D . My buddy does have a 3D printer come to think of it.


Quote

You're not solving anything. You are creating more problems and creating worse devices that cannot function on it's own and you're not saving any money. Instead of carrying your just your phone you are now always carrying 2+ devices. How big do you envision this "CPU" to be? Processing power, size, weight, power consumption, form factor and heat do not combine. You have to pick and choose.



What I'm attempting to solve is the price, of all your devices, their overall utility, their durability, their longevity, and the stagnation and complicit nature of iterations the market has subjected us to.


I imagine the first model of the CIYP being no larger than a small wallet with future models increasingly becoming smaller. I envision in 15 years time the CIYP becoming the size of a key fob.


And I'm not sure where you get the "2+" devices. What is the plus for? If you're talking about a smartwatch, you're not really carrying it, are you? Besides, your CIYP may one day be small enough to replace your watch.

Quote

It is why we have dedicated devices. I don't see how tying every other device to a single point of failure is helping anything. Take a Camera, instead of having a swappable memory card and batteries you are at the mercy of the device with the lowest battery life aka your "CPU". You can even switch off digital displays with cameras saving power by shooting old school.
Have a look at Ouya that tried to take mobile components and turn them into a console. It failed. The engineering realities of a console and a mobile device are mutually exclusive.



I think you mistook me. When I said "better camera", I meant a better camera than other models of phones. I'm not trying to replace your DSLR. I'm not trying to replace the laptop or desktop where you edit 500mb photos either. In fact, I'm not trying to replace anything dedicated at all. The examples I gave earlier are in comparison to phones as they are now; ie "better speakers" means better speakers than phones today.


To your other points, having your CIYP and the device it is connected to each have a battery can guarantee you'll have longer battery life than any device today. And you can still have swap-able memory in any of your devices. I'm pretty sure I mentioned your laptop and monitor even having a dedicated HDD.



Quote

The point of the Smart Phone is to be good enough, a jack of all trades. If you want better you buy that dedicated device. If I, personally buy a new phone now it it would simply be a display of wealth not utility.



Completely agree.


Quote

You can buy a CPU retail for $50 and now your desktop can run on it's own with more power than your cellular "CPU"
http://pricespy.co.nz/category.php?k=500&o=produkt_pris_inkmoms#prodlista



Ok, but I'd still have to buy these processors again and again and again, or else what would run my phone, laptop and tablet? And unfortunately, when I decide to upgrade it, I can't buy it once either. I'll have to buy it again and again and again, for my phone, laptop and tablet.


Quote

If you want a phone that last all week but a burner phone. If you want bigger speakers buy an after market speaker dock or a $2 male to male cable. Buy a Camera if you are serious about taking photos, even the cheapest one will out-perform the best phone camera. If you want to find the pH of something get litmus test stripes.

A fully dedicated device will always be better than a smart phone or what you are trying to sell.



Can my burner phone that lasts an entire week run Uber? Can it run any apps at all?


And I've already replied to your other points.

Quote

Post edit: Your CIYP is another incompatible piece of tech. I have also made the thread dumber yet again by posting a cartoon and missing the point of the message.




Now you hate Rick and Morty too? Nickmitch said "but with extra steps." Inconsequential reference made.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 03:48:34 PM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline oohhboy

  • Forum Friend or Foe?
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #533 on: September 13, 2016, 10:25:47 PM »
You still haven't solved anything.

You are still trying to devolve the Smart phone, that's it. Google tried already and failed. By extracting the CPU you are trying to do the same thing.

Even it you made the CPU, you now have a 100 other products you have to engineer to be compatible in a hostile market since you don't have any partners. You say your CPU gets smaller over time, each time you shrink everything else becomes incompatible. If you go wireless link now you're back to 2+ items to carry around. You never dealt with the issues that limit any processor other than hand waving it and talking ****. Have a look at actual processors, see how they are mounted, how much power draw, heat, how big they are, what application that are driving.

You are no liberalising anything. All these companies aren't in some cartel to sell you package deals, they just found the best way to put everything to gather. Most of the time tech is evolutionary and alliterative. The trend has been to place a CPU/SOC into everything including Fridges, appliances, houses, with data linking everything with or without wires, not to extract the CPU. If your detached camera isn't better than a DSLR and only marginally better than a phone why not buy the DSLR? The camera on the phone gets used because it is convenient, it's good enough for most. The companies sell a better camera with a new phone because they need to produce some sort of market differentiation and as part of the alliterative process.

Go look at Raspberry Pi, look at the size you need for the PCB board you need to fit all the associated chips that need to go with the CPU. You still need to slap a battery on it and contend with how weak the processor is, it is simply not powerful enough to drive anything other than very basic applications or act as a semi-embedded processor. The cheapest goes for $5 retail. At that price you might as well stick it them in everything. The other dumb thing is that you still need to put some sort of processor into these devices you talk about.

There are no cost saving to be had by removing the CPU. Let me say this again.

Google already tried and found it was a dumb idea.
They have near unlimited money, manpower knowledge and tools. You're are not envisioning any sort of massive explosive shift, it's not even some sort of niche, you are going backwards.

https://www.cnet.com/news/google-project-ara-hands-on-rafa-camargo-interview-modular-phones/

Quote
           But the new Project Ara isn't designed to let you swap out core components like the processor. Now they're all built right in.
 "When we did our user studies, what we found is that most users don't care about modularizing the core functions," Camargo explains. "They expect them all to be there, to always work and to be consistent."
           "Our initial prototype was modularizing everything...just to find out users didn't care," he adds.
 So instead of letting you build your own future-proof phone, the new Ara is about giving you a phone with mix-and-match features you can't get anywhere else.
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #534 on: September 15, 2016, 04:04:16 AM »
You still haven't solved anything.

You are still trying to devolve the Smart phone, that's it. Google tried already and failed. By extracting the CPU you are trying to do the same thing.

Right, they tried to make a phone modular, one where you can hotswap out pieces of the phone with presumably better, newer parts. This is not my idea. In fact, it's the opposite of my idea. And if you read carefully, it's apparent their failure makes my idea even more viable.

Quote
Even it you made the CPU, you now have a 100 other products you have to engineer to be compatible in a hostile market since you don't have any partners. You say your CPU gets smaller over time, each time you shrink everything else becomes incompatible. If you go wireless link now you're back to 2+ items to carry around. You never dealt with the issues that limit any processor other than hand waving it and talking ****. Have a look at actual processors, see how they are mounted, how much power draw, heat, how big they are, what application that are driving.


Right, because I am a person. I'm not a billion dollar conglomeration with legions of fans and political capital to partner with almost anyone.


Unlike phones today, the CIYP would shrink (or change) every generation and not every iteration. If it's really a problem, I'm sure someone could devise an adapter for backwards compatibility. It'd be pretty easy to make.

I still don't know where you're getting the plus in "2+", but I'm not concerned. The wireless link between your phone and CIYP is necessary, otherwise you'd have to make every phone dock with the CIYP making them look similar. This is the opposite of what I'm going for.

Quote
You are no liberalising anything. All these companies aren't in some cartel to sell you package deals, they just found the best way to put everything to gather.Most of the time tech is evolutionary and alliterative. The trend has been to place a CPU/SOC into everything including Fridges, appliances, houses, with data linking everything with or without wires, not to extract the CPU.

Right. And the CIYP will communicate with them all.

Quote
If your detached camera isn't better than a DSLR and only marginally better than a phone why not buy the DSLR? The camera on the phone gets used because it is convenient, it's good enough for most. The companies sell a better camera with a new phone because they need to produce some sort of market differentiation and as part of the alliterative process.

I'm not sure where you got a "detached camera" from anything I've said. I said that if the most important thing about your phone is a camera, when you go buy a phone to link to your CIYP (because maybe you cracked the screen), pick the one with the best camera. There's sure to be a lot of options once I partner up with other major international companies.


Quote
Go look at Raspberry Pi, look at the size you need for the PCB board you need to fit all the associated chips that need to go with the CPU. You still need to slap a battery on it and contend with how weak the processor is, it is simply not powerful enough to drive anything other than very basic applications or act as a semi-embedded processor. The cheapest goes for $5 retail. At that price you might as well stick it them in everything. The other dumb thing is that you still need to put some sort of processor into these devices you talk about.


Right, and the most sophisticated chips on the planet (and even in your phone) have to be at least the size of a Pi.


You continually miss my point. If it weren't for the way you look at information, ie a screen, your phone could be smaller than it is, possibly even much smaller. Can we at least agree on that?


Quote
There are no cost saving to be had by removing the CPU. Let me say this again.


First of all, this is an entire computer you're removing. When I said CPU, I misspoke. Definitions are important, so let's be clear about what I'm proposing. Second of all, this computer will run a host of different devices, saving you the cost of having to buy stand-alone units. And before you say it, this will not replace dedicated devices.


Quote

Google already tried and found it was a dumb idea.
They have near unlimited money, manpower knowledge and tools. You're are not envisioning any sort of massive explosive shift, it's not even some sort of niche, you are going backwards.

https://www.cnet.com/news/google-project-ara-hands-on-rafa-camargo-interview-modular-phones/

Quote
           But the new Project Ara isn't designed to let you swap out core components like the processor. Now they're all built right in.
 "When we did our user studies, what we found is that most users don't care about modularizing the core functions," Camargo explains. "They expect them all to be there, to always work and to be consistent."
           "Our initial prototype was modularizing everything...just to find out users didn't care," he adds.
 So instead of letting you build your own future-proof phone, the new Ara is about giving you a phone with mix-and-match features you can't get anywhere else.


Except Google never tried my idea. It's right there in the text what people expected to work. And that's exactly what I'd be offering, except instead of adding on a camera or better screen, you'd buy a phone that has those features.


I feel like I need to draw this out for you. I'll be back with images.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 04:10:54 AM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #535 on: September 15, 2016, 05:17:19 AM »


« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 05:21:03 AM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #536 on: September 15, 2016, 05:26:12 AM »
Rough and dirty, but do you get it now?

You'll need this little block to power all your devices. But it's worth it. Instead of buying a laptop, monitor and phone, you'll be buying a touchscreen, a screen with a keyboard attached to it, and a large screen that sits pretty on a desk. They'll work just fine for things like Office, browsing, watching netflix, playing simple games and calling. But if you ever feel the need to upgrade the speed of your devices, just upgrade your CIYP and everything else becomes faster.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 05:30:07 AM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline oohhboy

  • Forum Friend or Foe?
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #537 on: September 15, 2016, 09:15:52 AM »
HAhah. Your CPU doesn't have an interface. You have to carry it and your interface ie 2+ items. You are still trying to devolve the Smart phone.

You literally don't have a single idea with the engineering limitations you have to play with. Your not saving any money, you're just creating inconvenience and weak links in the chain because now I have a minimum of 2 things I have to keep an eye on, two batteries, two loose items, two charge levels, radio links. You still have to put a processor into whatever your wireless device it to poll the interface, process in/outgoing signals and do whatever device specific processing needs done.

You can already talk you your house etc with a smart phone you can't do that with your CIYP because itself doesn't have an interface. Your CIYP is a glorified pants warmer.

Our technological devices are the way they are because they have to be that way dictated by engineering, ergonomics, work flow and countless other considerations. Smart phones are a pain to repair not because the companies want more dollars from you, it is because you wanted this form factor and to give you that form factor along with all these other features they have to be build that way.

If your idea made any sense Apple or anybody else would have jumped onto it. People want things that just work, you are doing the very opposite.

If you want to do your idea which is really really dumb if you haven't noticed, I would do it in software with a USB cable/bluetooth. Your CPU is still your smart phone but with a data link to your device of choice it extends your phone to it. This is something that is suppose to be done via software not some hardware boondgles. It is done via sharing data not centralising the processor.

By doing it in hardware you now have to make every other single piece of hardware to go with it. You are not going to get any hardware partners as only you would believe in this. If any of those companies thought it would be a good idea they would have beaten you to the market like a redhead step child. You are still full of ****.
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?

Offline ShyGuy

  • Fight Me!
  • *
  • Score: -9660
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #538 on: September 15, 2016, 10:09:58 AM »
client - server!

Offline oohhboy

  • Forum Friend or Foe?
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #539 on: September 15, 2016, 10:26:16 AM »
client - server!
Yeah, you got to have full independent system on each end for it to work. Even dumb terminals have some processor powerful enough to receive the video signal and to poll the mouse and keyboard to send back to the server.

Stogie never answers the very basic engineering questions. It's all magic pixie dust.
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?

Offline Fatty The Hutt

  • Zut alors!
  • Score: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #540 on: September 15, 2016, 11:30:05 AM »
Stogi = Phileas Fogg
oohhboy = The Reform Club

ShyGuy = Passepartout?
Oui, Mon Gars!

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #541 on: September 15, 2016, 03:14:27 PM »
Holy ****! He finally understands it. Well done, everyone! We did it! We actually did it! Time to go home and **** our wives or husbands.

HAhah. Your CPU doesn't have an interface. You have to carry it and your interface ie 2+ items. You are still trying to devolve the Smart phone.


It has an interface. There are buttons and lights on it :D .


And call it what you what, but the smart phone today is flawed and needs to be reexamined. There's a whole economy based on fixing phones and yet there's tablets in India being made for pennies on the gram. Do you not see the problem here? You're being complicit in a culture that builds beautiful phones that you have to put a case on because it can't survive a measly three foot drop. And god help you if you do crack the screen of your phone. Even if it works, society doesn't want to see that ugly ****, so you gotta buy a new phone. But unfortunately, you can't even salvage the most expensive parts and place it into your new phone (like Google was thinking), so your cracked screen phone has become entirely useless.


But please tell me how "the cartel" isn't trying to screw us over.



Quote
You literally don't have a single idea with the engineering limitations you have to play with. Your not saving any money, you're just creating inconvenience and weak links in the chain because now I have a minimum of 2 things I have to keep an eye on, two batteries, two loose items, two charge levels, radio links. You still have to put a processor into whatever your wireless device it to poll the interface, process in/outgoing signals and do whatever device specific processing needs done.


I may not know the exact engineering needed, but I am smart enough to recognize this idea already in play in the world. A smartwatch uses this exact technology and Wii U used a variant.


Right, people are such idiots they can't possibly keep track of another item they may need to charge. Luckily, their devices will last days now and not hours ;) .


And in 15 years it's not going to matter when everything will charge wirelessly (not on a pad but wirelessly).

Quote
You can already talk you your house etc with a smart phone you can't do that with your CIYP because itself doesn't have an interface. Your CIYP is a glorified pants warmer.


CIYP can have every interface imaginable.


Quote
Our technological devices are the way they are because they have to be that way dictated by engineering, ergonomics, work flow and countless other considerations. Smart phones are a pain to repair not because the companies want more dollars from you, it is because you wanted this form factor and to give you that form factor along with all these other features they have to be build that way.

Speak for yourself. I want a flip phone, one that flips vertically not horizontally.


You've been tricked, buddy. Companies could give a **** about you, they just want your money. There are countless ways to fortify your phone, but there's more money in selling beauty and fragility. And unfortunately, you love it almost enough not to put a case on it.

We're stuck with this form factor because of the limitations of the screen and battery. We haven't invented a high-res bendable screen or a bendable and/or tiny high-capacity battery. Soon though.

Quote
If your idea made any sense Apple or anybody else would have jumped onto it. People want things that just work, you are doing the very opposite.


No, I don't think they would. Their making a mint being iterative because of people like you who agree that we've exhausted all our ideas for the foreseeable future.

Quote
If you want to do your idea which is really really dumb if you haven't noticed, I would do it in software with a USB cable/bluetooth. Your CPU is still your smart phone but with a data link to your device of choice it extends your phone to it. This is something that is suppose to be done via software not some hardware boondgles. It is done via sharing data not centralising the processor.


I've already thought about that several posts ago. You should read it. It's good. Oh, while you're there, I also gave several reasons why you would still want to separate the computer from your phone.


Quote
By doing it in hardware you now have to make every other single piece of hardware to go with it. You are not going to get any hardware partners as only you would believe in this. If any of those companies thought it would be a good idea they would have beaten you to the market like a redhead step child. You are still full of ****.



Again, I'm not a CEO in charge of a billion dollar multi-national company, but I believe if I were, I wouldn't partner with anyone. I'd build my own dock-monitor and dock-laptop.


And no, they really wouldn't come out with this idea because there's no reason to be risky in a space that is compliant with iterative ideas.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 05:53:15 PM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #542 on: September 15, 2016, 03:22:28 PM »
Stogi = Phileas Fogg
oohhboy = The Reform Club

ShyGuy = Passepartout?

Apt. :D
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #543 on: September 15, 2016, 05:59:21 PM »
client - server!

Thank you. That's exactly what it is.

client - server!
Yeah, you got to have full independent system on each end for it to work. Even dumb terminals have some processor powerful enough to receive the video signal and to poll the mouse and keyboard to send back to the server.

Stogie never answers the very basic engineering questions. It's all magic pixie dust.

Magic pixie dust? It's the same idea as a smartwatch! A smartwatch is fed information from your phone and you send input back to your phone through your watch. Now expand that idea to your phone and CIYP. That's it. That's the idea.

You can disagree with my idea, and I welcome any criticism, but you can't disagree with something you don't understand.

To put it as simply as possibly. I want to make a computer that fits in your pocket. It will provide information to your phone and devices. Your phone and devices are how you view and manipulate that information.

In this context, you should think of your phone as a mouse with a screen. Something that is wirelessly attached to a computer and you are using the touchscreen and buttons to access, view and change information. It doesn't process information, it doesn't do anything your computer would handle, it simply sends input to your computer.

Taking the main computer from your devices and placing it into a separate form allows for some interesting ideas:

One, you could use a whole host of devices, even other people's, with one centralized computer.
Two, your devices can be made to be much cheaper since they don't do any computational heavy-lifting themselves (an example of this can be seen with the explosion of incredibly cheap smartwatches).
Three, you can upgrade "the specs" of all your devices with one upgrade to your computer.
Four, you will be able to use multiple devices at once, even multiple phones.
Five, lacking a screen (although it may feature a tiny e-ink screen), your computer's battery life will be substantially longer than any of your devices today. And your devices will also have a substantially longer battery life as they, again, don't do any sort of "heavy-lifting". Also, with the removal of the main computer from your devices, you would be able to fit a larger battery.
Six, your computer could become smaller and smaller, even fitting onto a key fob.
Seven, your devices can focus on features rather than computational power.
Eight, your computer could be made to be almost indestructible.
Nine, your computer will be standardized to be able to dock with any your devices.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 06:39:17 PM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline ShyGuy

  • Fight Me!
  • *
  • Score: -9660
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #544 on: September 15, 2016, 08:02:20 PM »
I haven't read Around the World in 80 Days since I was a young'n!

Client Server is valid. These things go in cycles. Most of the things people do on computing devices is server side todays anyway. It's called the Internet!

Offline oohhboy

  • Forum Friend or Foe?
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #545 on: September 15, 2016, 08:20:03 PM »
Answer this one simple engineering question: What are you going to do with the heat? If you can't answer this properly you will remain full of ****.

Phones and tables aren't sold and made by the gram..... They are relatively cheap in India because compared to our usual their tablets are too slow or limited for our wants and needs. They have traded everything else for a low price similair to One Laptop per Child, they are not for you and I.

Smart watches don't use this technology as you are describing. Smart watches have enough processing power to function as it's own device, it is just that the data it holds is slaved to the phone. The phone does very little.

What you are doing isn't a server client, it's a dumb terminal, they are very different technologies. That list contains actual engineering information other than wishful thinking.

I will say this again, you are not liberalising anything, it's bullshit in your head, it doesn't make sense. You are not some economic freedom fighter. Just because you say so with all your magics doesn't be reality doesn't ensure.
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?

Offline ShyGuy

  • Fight Me!
  • *
  • Score: -9660
    • View Profile

Offline oohhboy

  • Forum Friend or Foe?
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #547 on: September 15, 2016, 08:59:04 PM »
Has this been brought up?

http://www.news18.com/news/tech/this-dumb-terminal-turns-your-android-phone-into-a-full-fledged-laptop-1273336.html
I told him that is how I would do it if I was going to do something like it.

If you want to do your idea which is really really dumb if you haven't noticed, I would do it in software with a USB cable/bluetooth. Your CPU is still your smart phone but with a data link to your device of choice it extends your phone to it. This is something that is suppose to be done via software not some hardware boondgles. It is done via sharing data not centralising the processor.

By doing it in hardware you now have to make every other single piece of hardware to go with it. You are not going to get any hardware partners as only you would believe in this. If any of those companies thought it would be a good idea they would have beaten you to the market like a redhead step child. You are still full of ****.

You can do the desktop equivalent now using the USB port to display video on a monitor and a bluetooth keyboard. It's also something no one does. Thats half a laptop is that in a mobile form factor. It is the return of the netbook but with none of the guts. It's not really a dumb terminal, it's a phone dock without the dock.

I you read the first sentence this is not a product meant for us but the implementation makes sense.
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?

Offline Fatty The Hutt

  • Zut alors!
  • Score: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #548 on: September 16, 2016, 11:15:23 AM »
Stogi's idea sounds analogous to the "Cloud" everyone keeps blathering on about (at my work they do, anyway). All (most) of the processing power for your applications and executables happens outside of the device you are working on, delivered through the internet via "cloud". Stogi's plan is analogous except the cloud is in your pocket
So, Stogi, re-brand CIYP from "Computer in your Pocket" (too 90s) to "Cloud in your Pocket (soo 2016 and teh sexeh!) It'll sell like gangbusters, I tells ya!

And yeah yeah, it's not a 1:1 analogy, you aren't linking servers in your pocket and ramping up/down based on demand, and co-mingling clients, and charging fees based on consumption, and on and on...I get all that. I was just drawing comparisons.
Oui, Mon Gars!

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Um, Apple thread
« Reply #549 on: September 16, 2016, 03:59:24 PM »
I plan on upgrading my new iMac's memory to 32 GB. Is that overkill?