Topic: Chrono Trigger Resurrection Update

[Rob91883]

Square-Enix can publish this as a 10-20 $ disc, and rake in cash on license fees, but hey who am I to say this will make money…you don’t need to be a genius to know this will make money!    

P. S.  

Good luck on making me a Earthbound remake, or else I'll will be sad

[Nephilim]

Square were proberly upset that the game wasnt atleast 10% FMV

[DrZoidberg]

Keep us (Planetgamecube) posted on any future projects, beit Nintendo system related or not. We arn't fanboys here, we appreciate good games regardless of the system.


Also, I like how JubJub is a clown who posts before engaging his / her brain.  

[past pixel]

this is wack  they could at least released the game what they have done now  

[Grey Ninja]

Square never heard of Fair Use I take it?  Stupid bastards... I think I might just vote with my dollar on this one.  I wasn't buying many Square games as it were, but I think this has just guaranteed that I will NOT be buying Final Fantasy 1&2 at the very least.

[Djunknown]

Its a crying shame; Its not like Square(enix) was doing anything with the Chrono Trigger license...

But then again, this ain't the the Square(enix) of old. Sequels and spin-offs to Final Fantasy games? Done. Heavy investment in online/mobile models? Check. No 'Cube support despite decent sales of Crystal Chronicles? 'Gotcha. Dragon Warrior/Dragon Quest 8? MIA in the USA. Wait, we here on this side of the world still matter?

That's enough rambling. Next thing you know, they'll charge a considerable amount for the upcoming FF I&II port...

Thanks for all the hard work guys, pity it didn't work out. Do keep us posted when you have something else cooking.

[MysticGohan24]

I'm sorry to hear this tssf, I'm a big fan of your work. And I was very looking forward to CT:R. It's a dissapointment that sqaure just didn't want it to progress for whatever naive reason.

I wish you all the luck and hope to see more stuff in the near future.

[joeamis]

Quote
Originally posted by: Djunknown

That's enough rambling. Next thing you know, they'll charge a considerable amount for the upcoming FF I&II port...

Nintendo is publishing the game.

Good luck in the future tssf, I have a feeling you guys will have success in the coming years.  I just want to clarify something too, I misread JubJub's post about "not starting in the first place" meaning I was thinking he meant SE should have told them to stop immediately, not that tssf and company should have never started it.  I also do not think you guys are inefficient or amateur at all.  I do think its reasonable for SE to ask them to stop, and that you guys should put your talent into an original game (by the look of your work I think you could accomplish a AAA title atleast in regards to art style, texture work, and presentation, (I haven't heard the music yet, sorry).  Anyways, keep up the great work, which rivals anything out there in some respects.  

[3rdrocket]

Great a fantastic project like this gets closed by square and prolly somewhere in Japan Square is trying to figure out how they can make more games with the FFX characters.


Tidus = Ellen Degeneres

[Caillan]

Quote
It's very easy to sit there and type in a message box in a forum and call us a bunch of "amateurs", with a "(no doubt) innefficient, amateur engine" . It's also very easy to sit on your high chair like that and claim you know everything there is to know about us, our project, and the hard work we put into it.

Yeah, I work on a small non-commercial game project, and I would like to emphasise the fact that what you guys have done is really awsome, and is definately something people from other small projects can look up to.

This is a horrible, horrible thing for Square-Enix to do.

[KDR_11k]

Grey Ninja: What has Fair Use got to do with anything? Fair Use lets you copy a copyrighted work for personal purposes, NOT make a derivative work. Creating a derivative work, for whatever purpose, without the (written) consent of the IP holder is illegal. Some people believe that it's okay as long as it's for non-commercial purposes only, but that is wrong. In other words, I'm completely aware that my avatar is infringing copyright law (okay, not the avatar itself but the matter depicted).

[KirbySStar]

Square-Enix has just made a very horrible business decision.  All they had to do was wave a bunch of money in these guys faces', sign a deal to make the game for them, and we would have had an awesome remake of Chrono Trigger in 3d.  I can't see the harm in that.  They'd make more money on it than any of their recent Final Fantasy's and we fans would be in 7th heaven.  Boo, Square-Enix!  Boo!

[Grey Ninja]

KDR, I believe that CTR was probably protected under parody law.  It's the part of fair use that allows idiots like Puff Daddy to exist.

I find it incredibly hilarious that you're arguing about fair use by copying and pasting an entire article in our forums, which is strictly prohibited. Give a link to the guy's page for crying out loud. - Bloodworth

oops.

http://www.publaw.com/parody.html

[UncleBob]

You know, I'd like to throw another thing to consider in all of this...

If S/E had something like a remake of CT in 3D or sometime in the future decided to do it, they'd have all kinds of potential for legal battles because of the folks who started working on this CTR project.

Just like OoT2D (*drool*)... if Nintendo decided, down the road, a 2D version of OoT with LttP graphics would be a good project, well, don't you know, someone already started it...

That's another reason why companies have to crack down on fan-made games, even if they aren't for profit or such... Fan-made games limit potential ideas and storylines in future games because the various companies have to look out for those who will try to claim "Hey, that was my idea!  You stole it!  Give me free money!"....

[KDR_11k]

What part of this is a parody? It's a retelling of certain scenes, not making fun of the original game. From your link: However, the fair-use defense if successful will only be successful when the newly created work that purports itself to be parody is a valid parody. That means, no copying and claiming it's supposed to be a parody when it clearly isn't. CTR was a tribute, retelling, adaption, whatever, but no parody.

UncleBob: Well, the little ones couldn't try to sue since they never had a permission to make their adaption, anyway. Without permission (and that means explicit permission) making an adaption is a crime.

[Grey Ninja]

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Well fine then, here's fair use straight from the US Government's mouth.  (NOTE TO MODERATORS:  Facts may not be copyrighted, and as a result, I am free to directly quote the link above.   )

Quote
the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes

it's non-profit, and educational in the sense that all the people involved with development are learning a great deal.

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the nature of the copyrighted work

a tribute.

Quote
amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole

10 scenes from the game.  I would suspect them to be short scenes.  None of the original artwork or code was used, meaning that story, characters, and dialog were used from the original.  I would say that the amount would actually be pretty small, something akin to fanfictions.

Quote
the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work

Given that this was not intended to be a full game, I can't see where it would do much other than to drum up some extra publicity for Chrono Trigger.

[Bloodworth]

NOTE TO GREY NINJA: Quoting is not against the rules, just extended quotes.  Once you go over one continuous paragraph, I'm gonna start coming down on you.  :-P

[KDR_11k]

Grey: The sole fact that they created 3d adaption of concepts is already copyright infringement. A game isn't one, big work but many small ones combined. The characters are works by themselves, every piece of art in a game is a work. The concepts are works. Making a derivative work of a copyrighted work, in this case a 3d model based on a concept by Akira Toryama, is enough to cross the line. You're using the most lenient way of interpeting the law, that wouldn't hold up in court, they'd argue that "tribute" means "copy" and that just learning from doing it isn't enough for "educational use" (since you invariably learn something from making an adaption, you get better at making adaptions). That they didn't just use excepts from the characters but the whole characters. Yes, arguing semantics is exactly what's done in court, but I'm sure the other attorney could find a whole lot of points to be used against you, as well.

[UncleBob]

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the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work

What would the effect on the potential market value of this CTR project be on S/E if they were already planning on making a 3D remake of CT?

[Ms.Pikmin]

" I find it incredibly hilarious that you're arguing about fair use by copying and pasting an entire article in our forums, which is strictly prohibited. Give a link to the guy's page for crying out loud. - Bloodworth"

"Well fine then, here's fair use straight from the US Government's mouth. (NOTE TO MODERATORS: Facts may not be copyrighted, and as a result, I am free to directly quote the link above.  )"

"NOTE TO GREY NINJA: Quoting is not against the rules, just extended quotes. Once you go over one continuous paragraph, I'm gonna start coming down on you. :-P"



Awww, it's like the family is finally back together.  The mouthy rebellious son comes home and dad has to give him a verbal smacking to keep him in place.  It's so beautiful it brings a tear to my eye.....

[3rdrocket]

I dont know the whole thing seems stupid. If they shut this project down then why dont they just wipe out every fanfic on the internet and smite every fanart pic  

[Grey Ninja]

Quote
Awww, it's like the family is finally back together. The mouthy rebellious son comes home and dad has to give him a verbal smacking to keep him in place. It's so beautiful it brings a tear to my eye.....

Shut it woman.  

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Grey: The sole fact that they created 3d adaption of concepts is already copyright infringement. A game isn't one, big work but many small ones combined. The characters are works by themselves, every piece of art in a game is a work. The concepts are works. Making a derivative work of a copyrighted work, in this case a 3d model based on a concept by Akira Toryama, is enough to cross the line. You're using the most lenient way of interpeting the law, that wouldn't hold up in court, they'd argue that "tribute" means "copy" and that just learning from doing it isn't enough for "educational use" (since you invariably learn something from making an adaption, you get better at making adaptions). That they didn't just use excepts from the characters but the whole characters. Yes, arguing semantics is exactly what's done in court, but I'm sure the other attorney could find a whole lot of points to be used against you, as well.

Yes, I am not denying that some copyrighted material was used in CTR.  But that's exactly my point.  Fair use allows people to use copyrighted material in their own projects if it's not blatantly infringing.  Fair use is a really grey area thing though, and I am saying that if it was contested in court, then CTR might very well win.  They aren't doing this most likely because none of them want "copyright infringer" to go on their record.  Which really really sucks.  Square Enix probably knows this, and that's why they did it in the first place.  And THAT is why I am currently boycotting them.

[MysticGohan24]

hehe, you know it's not a family reunion without me

I see where your coming from Grey, I'm too pissed at SE
for doing this so late into the projects existence. Sad isn't
it? Damn them, CT:R is the best thing I've seen in a recreation
of the original. It appears that anything better than what SE
can do, they automatically kill it by whatever means.

They seem to forget who buys their "stuff",
do they really want to discreminate people?

I think so, must be ignorance.


What's this....?  Do I smell Acclaim?

Your Next SE if you don't stop the BS and deliver something friggin
decent and beyond!!!  

[MaleficentOgre]

Square enix will never die.  Final Fantasy is too big of a cash cow.  They could put a piece of elephant poo in a box and call it final fantast EP and it would sell a million copies in the first week. As far as chrono trigger goes, yes its sad that they stopped development of it, but most of the world didn't know about it and the only people that would've played it are hardcore fans that actually followed the progress of it.  Nintendo has done the same thing in the past and so have other companies.  Sooner or later the complaints will be heard and companies will allow fans of their games to pay tribute by trying to add to it and these companies should embrace what fans are doing instead of crushing their fun.

[MysticGohan24]

hehe, tell that to Eidos who thought that more crappy Boob Raider games would sell.
Now only if they would die, I know it's near. Unless they change and start to pump out
quality products.

But what are the chances?