Author Topic: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed  (Read 19372 times)

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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« on: October 14, 2005, 08:33:41 PM »
PGC Reader Scott Rubin reports from DigitalLife with much-desired details on the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection menu.  WEP support explicitly confirmed.

PGC Reader Scott Rubin attended the DigitalLife exposition on Friday and was clever enough to look into the Nintendo Wi-Fi menu system.  Both Animal Crossing: Wild World and Mario Kart DS include this standardized menu, which includes most of the features over which fans have expressed concern.    


Pictures speak louder than words—even if they are pictures of text—so Mr. Rubin has graciously created a slideshow of his photos of the menu system.  If you can’t view the slideshow or cannot be bothered to click a hyperlink, here is a rundown of the options and settings:    


     
  • Easily transfer your settings to another DS (using normal DS wireless connections)  
  • Space for three connections—no need to change router settings every time you use a different network.  
  • A separate one-touch connection for the Nintendo Wi-Fi USB Connector  
  • For each connection  
      Easily search for a wireless network
     
      One-touch AOSS support for Buffalo routers and access points.
     
      Manual Setup
     
  •  
  • Under Manual Setup  
      Auto-obtain DNS or explicitly define Primary & secondary DNS servers, Gateway, Subnet mask, etc.
     
      SSID and WEP Key (WPA does indeed seem to be unsupported)
     
      DHCP or manual IP assignment
     
  •  
 With the exception of WPA—which is a new enough standard to still be spottily supported among deployed wireless networks anyway—this is a comprehensive list of settings.  Some gamers may need to downgrade from WPA to WEP, but everyone should be able to get their current hardware to work with Nintendo DS.

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Offline Artimus

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2005, 09:01:03 PM »
Stuff like this is why I love PGC! Awesome!

As for storage, I'd agree that either the system stores it (which BY FAR makes the most sense...please Nintendo). Now you might need a game in there to edit the settings, but hopefully they tansfer from game to game. There's transfer to another DS so it'd be silly not to have game to game...

Great news for WEP for sure. That'll put minds at rest.

Offline RABicle

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2005, 09:10:45 PM »
Quote

Easily transfer your settings to another DS (using normal DS wireless connections)
This could be really handy as noobs can have some nerd like do their settings and simply copy it across.

But I don't think this should be a menu in the games, rather online games should update the DS firmware with this menu accessible from your regular DS menu.
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2005, 09:11:14 PM »
Well, Artimus, it really comes down to whether Nintendo considered (or had even begun planning) Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection when the system specs and BIOS were designed.  If they didn't have the foresight include extra DS persistent memory for such future features, they may be stuck without the most sensible option.

EDIT: (RABicle posted before me) I think it is also a must when visiting a friend's house.  Surely you can copy over one connection's setting without wiping out your own...
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Offline bananaboy

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RE:Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2005, 06:04:01 AM »
I just wonder if people like me who use MAC addressing will have a simple way to check the MAC address of the DS as that would be very handy.  Otherwise I can just do as I did with my PS2 (de-activate MAC filtering, check the DHCP list, add the PS2's MAC address, turn on MAC filtering).

From what we all know its in every game so that kind of sucks, but since its easy enough its not a big deal.  Hopefully a firmware update will come with the ability to store the data (as well as an online version of Pictochat please!)
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Offline kirby_killer_dedede

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RE:Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2005, 06:24:45 AM »
No one knows how disappointed I'll be if I don't see some online Picto-Chat soon.
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Offline Pale

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2005, 07:05:54 AM »
There is a not so simple way to check the MAC address of things when it isn't apparent.  If you turn the MAC address filtering off on your router, then connect the ds to it, then the router will display the MAC address...

Pass friends list between games???  Is this true?  I thought Nintendo said otherwise?
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Offline stevey

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2005, 07:55:18 AM »
From those shot it look like it's buit in to the ds.

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Offline Renny

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RE:Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2005, 08:46:33 AM »
I already bitched in the other thread, but the issue bears mentioning in this 'official' thread. WEP is completely insufficient for wireless security. Anyone with the slightest inclination to get on your network can easily obtain your WEP key. People won't be "downgrading," they'll be compromising all their security. What are the options for connecting your DS to your home network?

1) Disable WPA altogether in favor of WEP, thereby leaving your network completely vulnerable.
2) Switch your network from WPA to WEP when you want to connect your DS, leaving you to reconfigure any clients that were previously connected.
3) Use a WiFi card in your PC as a bridge to your network. You will either need proper software that allows your card to run as an access point in infrastructure mode (not common, poor hardware support, though you're in better shape if you use Linux); or you can use XP's connection bridge, which will require the DS to connect in ad-hoc mode. I'm not sure if the DS has this ability for a TCP/IP connection or not, but I suspect it doesn't. Anyone?

I have a feeling the DS is incapable of WPA altogether, and we'll still be forced to use WEP in 5 years when it would be absurd to run any secured network with such lax security. But if the DS is capable of other authentication protocols, will these make their way through the SDK? Lacking WPA now tells me that Nintendo is taking the same approach as WiFi vendors: make setup as stupidly easy as possible and security be damned, all that matters is penetration. They want that 90% whatever the cost.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2005, 09:26:26 AM »
I think the DS might be too weak to do WPA.

Offline ssj4_android

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2005, 10:22:29 AM »
No WPA? Screw you, Nintendo. Will you be liable when someone hacks into my network and gets all my information? Will you do that for everyone?

Offline Artimus

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2005, 10:27:57 AM »
If you're really worried about WPA, then get one of the USB keys which solves everything.

Interesting thought, what if it IS built into the system but you have to have a Wi-Fi game to access it? Meaning it's saved for all games but we didn't know it's there?

Offline Pale

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2005, 11:08:24 AM »
Someone stole the precious documents!!@!

Video games did it!  Someone call Jacko!
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Offline NotSoStu

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2005, 02:15:10 PM »
Interesting. It looks sort of like the DS's main menu (especially the background), but with nicer looking buttons. I'd betcha that we'll see a BIOS flash or something included with any new online games. Which means there's hope for an online Pictochat. Which means there's hope for anti-aliased lines! Whoamg!
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2005, 02:28:45 PM »
I think we all need to keep in mind the Nintendo DS has a limited amount of space on its BIOS chip.  I don't think the sky is the limit with BIOS upgrades, especially if Nintendo cheaped out on us.  Are there any hackers in the audience who know a thing or two about DS BIOS flashing and the related files/chips?

Quote

Pass friends list between games??? Is this true? I thought Nintendo said otherwise?
Nintendo left this unclear (the company doesn't seem to like giving details about this stuff ahead of time).  However, a source I'm not sure I can disclose--laregly because I didn't talk directly with them--has stated that the buddy list is shared among games.
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Offline JonLeung

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RE:Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2005, 05:14:39 PM »
When I'm at GameFAQs, I feel like there are a lot of dumb people.
When I'm here, I feel like one of those dumb people.  o_0  Especially when I see topics like this.

Sounds like you people know every technical detail.  Which is good.  But for me, and especially people less bright than myself, will simply getting online and playing games with other people be a breeze?

Offline Artimus

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2005, 05:47:26 PM »
So...umm...Jeux France has a video up. It's in Spanish but still:

http://www.jeux-france.com/downloads4665_win4_video-mario-kart-ds.html

Nothing new, but looking at it I think the fact that there's a system info place that it'll be system wide.

Offline RABicle

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RE:Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2005, 06:20:31 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: JonLeung
Sounds like you people know every technical detail.  Which is good.  But for me, and especially people less bright than myself, will simply getting online and playing games with other people be a breeze?

Don't feel dumb. Anyone with a wireless network knows what they're talking about and will understand how to make their DS connect to it. So if you're feeling left out I'm guessing you don't have an existing wireless network. For people like you Nintendo have provided the USB wifi dongle and the DS has a preset to connect to that. It should be easy.
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Offline bustin98

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2005, 07:17:20 PM »
I wouldn't assume 'anyone' with an existing wireless network knows about security. In my area (and many others) Road Runner has been installing wireless routers in homes by technicians who don't give a damn. And consumers don't know enough to ask. Its a shame, but a fact of life.

Everyone should remember that the only dumb question is the one that goes un-asked.

Offline Grant10k

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RE:Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2005, 10:26:24 PM »
Quote

1) Disable WPA altogether in favor of WEP, thereby leaving your network completely vulnerable.

WEP is not completely vulnerable, unsecured is completely vulnerable.
Some one would need to like...sit outside of your house scanning your network for a few days in order to crack your code. Just keep a look out for white cargo vans every couple days or so, then you'll be fine. I don't know much about your arch nemesis, but I doubt they will target your network when they can easily target any of the other 5 million unsecured networks within a 1 mile radius. If you have a problem with hackers hanging out on your front porch, just use MAC filtering.
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Offline Strell

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RE:Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2005, 10:57:53 PM »
I'm currently researching WEP cracking and wireless security protocols (just wanted to say that since I hope it established some credability).

WEP is weak enough that it can be cracked easily, but there are a lot of different factors that have to be in place.  First off, you need all the equipment to interoperate with each other.  In short, this normally means that you have to be running a distro of Linux, use a crack program in there (Kismet is the most common), have compatible drivers, a wireless card running a specific chipset configuration, and possibly high-gain antennas to monitor possible signals.  That doesn't take into account whether or not you are going to do this with 1 or 2 laptops, and also doesn't take into account some other things (such as distance from the access point, number of users, etc).

In order for someone to hack it quickly, they'd need to be next to it, there would have to be a user already connected that is transmitting large amounts of data, and you'd need to know specific information regarding the network (does it use MAC filtering, for example).  Granted, Kismet can generally handle all of this by itself - it can get channels, user names, MAC addresses, cloaked SSIDs, etc.  

So let's assume you have all of that in place.  

You begin the attack, but you have to reach a certain number of IV ("Initialization vectors," which is a fancy way of saying a readable/sniffable packet of wireless information).  For 64bit WEP it's roughly 100-200K, which will be roughly 160 megs of information.  128bit might require onwards of 1-2 million IVs.  Getting those is going to take a while if you go through conventional means - i.e., you let your computer sniff the network and monitor traffic.  I'd suspect you'd have to wait between 1-2 days before you could successfully decode the message.

Of course, this can be bypassed by getting "replay" programs that essentially bombard the AP will packets, which essentially causes IVs to be generated much more quickly, expediting the process.  I found a movie of someone doing this, and they were able to capture the network within 10 minutes.  Really interesting.

Anyway, the problem with all of this is that WEP is vulnerable, BUT this is offset by the fact that you really need to be an above-average computer user in order to understand and run all of the necessary software.  I consdier myself pretty knowledgable about them, and even I know that right now, I couldn't explain this stuff to most people, it would be way over their heads.

The workaround to this?  Get the Wifi adapter.  Then you just bridge into the DS without compromising your WPA.  

Still, it takes some time (at least 10 minutes, at the least), a bevy of equipment, and a lot of technical know-how in order to crack WEP.  

You can always turn off your SSID broadcast, but Kismet can detect it nonetheless.  Still, doing so will stop some people who are just searching around blindly.  Turn off the beacons and my guess is that only the most technically saavy users will find your network then.

You can do MAC filtering, but that isn't very strong either.  I personally know of a program I ran across that lets you dynamically change your MAC address through software, meaning that if a network used only that as its security, I could break through it in about 3 minutes, tops.  

So recap:
1) WEP cracking is easy to do if you know how to do, have the equipment, are in range, and can interpret programs.  But this is a huge hassle by itself.
2) Get the wifi adapter.  I'm really hoping NIntendo will release it bundled with Mario Kart.
3) Use the highest WEP bit encryption if you can (128, 26 hexadecimal characters), turn off your SSID broadcast, and enable MAC filtering.  

I don't know anything about WPA, I might research that tomorrow.  

I think as technology progresses, people will naturally move towards higher protocols - WPA, for example, with LEAP authentications, etc - and leave WEP behind.  And at that point, peopel can just use two APs - one running a 802.11b network for small access devices such as the DS, and higher ones running greater bandwidths and security protocols.

So I don't think of it as a problem.  I'm getting the adapter purely to support Ninendo and send the message that they are doing the right thing.  So I'll just bypass security issues and use it as opposed to another card or reconfiguring clients.  That's not a totally acceptable answer, but it is the easier.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2005, 11:46:30 PM »
What is a "hexadecimal character"? There are hexadecimal digits and ASCII characters (and Unicode but I doubt you mean that).

Offline RABicle

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RE:Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2005, 12:30:15 AM »
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Originally posted by: Strell
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Offline ssj4_android

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RE:Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2005, 07:29:13 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Grant10k
Quote

1) Disable WPA altogether in favor of WEP, thereby leaving your network completely vulnerable.

WEP is not completely vulnerable, unsecured is completely vulnerable.
Some one would need to like...sit outside of your house scanning your network for a few days in order to crack your code. Just keep a look out for white cargo vans every couple days or so, then you'll be fine. I don't know much about your arch nemesis, but I doubt they will target your network when they can easily target any of the other 5 million unsecured networks within a 1 mile radius. If you have a problem with hackers hanging out on your front porch, just use MAC filtering.


Few days? Make that a few minutes. (Ignore the april first date. This is legit, look at the Tom's Networking site.) There are step by step tutorials on how to crack WEP. MAC filtering is also a very weak form of protection, as someone can just clone your MAC address. WEP does make you a less appealing target though. Many people will probably just go to one of the numerous other connections that's not encrypted at all. Still, relying on that is not very secure at all.  

Offline Pale

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RE: Nintendo Wi-Fi Menu Details Exposed
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2005, 08:05:14 AM »
The point you are missing... There are two reasons someone would hack your wireless network...

1. They just want free internet.
2. They want to steal your personal information.

If they just want free internet, chances are they aren't gonna bother you much if it happens.  Hell, if you are observant enough you woudl notice its happening and shut them out so they have to begin the process again.  Also, if free internet is the case, assuming you live in any sort of populated area and are running WEP, chances are there is someone who isn't even securing their network.  I live in a townhouse running WEP only, and my lappy can find 2 unsecured networks that I can connect to if I wanted.

The good thing about case 2 is you can know whether or not this is important.  I mean... do you consistantly send private and vital information wirelessly?  Think about someone actually getting on your network.. what can they find out?  Man, they'd find out I'm a big PGC and Penny-Arcade fan...  They'd also find out that I like to work on websites and games...  Hmm... I guess what it comes down to is, do you have a reason to be this paranoid or do you just want to brag about how the 1337est of haxors coulnd't crack your mad security skillz?  (I'm not talking to anyone specifically, just a general statment.  I understand that I may not know how vital your network actually is.)
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